May 21, 2014 
Looking around the church last Sunday I noticed that the majority weren’t singing. And most of those who were singing barely moved their lips. The only voices I actually heard were those on stage with microphones.
That’s been the case for years now–in churches large and small. What used to be congregational singing has become congregational staring.
Even when the chipper “worship leader” in contemporary churches bounds on stage and predictably beckons everyone to “stand and worship,” the people compliantly obey the stand command, but then they turn into mute mannequins.
What’s behind this phenomenon? What happened to the bygone sounds of sanctuaries overflowing with fervent, harmonizing voices from the pews, singing out with a passion that could be heard down the street? I suspect it’s a number of unfortunate factors.
Spectator set-up. Increasingly, the church has constructed the worship service as a spectator event. Everyone expects the people on stage to perform while the pew-sitters fulfill the expectation of any good audience–file in, be still, be quiet, don’t question, don’t contribute (except to the offering plate), and watch the spotlighted musicians deliver their well-rehearsed concerts.
Professionalism. It seems it’s paramount for church music to be more professional than participatory. The people in the pews know they pale in comparison to the loud voices at the microphones. Quality is worshipped. So the worshippers balk at defiling the quality with their crude crooning. It’s better to just fake it with a little lip syncing.
Blare. The musicians’ volume is cranked up so high that congregants can’t hear their own voices, or the voices of those around them, even if they would sing. So they don’t sing. What would it add? The overwhelming, amplified sound blares from big speakers, obliterating any chance for the sound of robust congregational singing.
Music choice. Sometimes people refrain from singing because the songs are unfamiliar, hard to sing, or just cheesy. Sometimes worship leaders choose a song that may thematically tie into the day’s sermon topic, but it’s unsingable. Sometimes worship leaders choose lame songs written by their favorite songwriters–themselves.
I admit. I’ve joined the majority. I’ve stopped singing. I’m not happy about it. I know I should overcome these barriers and just praise the Lord with my very unprofessional vocalizations. But I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation.
(See Thom’s follow-up post here: Confessions of a Worship Wars Mercenary.)
(Thom Schultz is the co-author of Why Nobody Wants to Go to Church Anymore, and the director of the film When God Left the Building.)
Holy Soup 
There’s another factor to include, Thom, and that’s the lack of choral singing in the school systems except for the few that choose to take part in chorus. And that’s IF their school hasn’t drastically cut the music programs.
It’s surprising how many people will sing karaoke, but don’t feel comfortable singing WITH other people.
YES I completely agree with you. As a music teacher, this is something I’m so passionate about! It is such a shame that churches actually can’t use hymnals anymore – not because people don’t like hymns (because many in my younger generation DO love hymns), but because they don’t understand how to read music! It’s so very disappointing!
Sorry but as a music minister I have to strongly disagree with your statement. It would be encouraging to have young people reading music, but in Church you don’t have to read music to sing along just like you don’t have to read music a karaoke. You just need the words. Young people do not like the old traditional hymns. If you want your church to die out, keep catering to the older people and sing the hymns. I’ve seen it over and over. You never see Hillsong or Crowder without hundreds or thousands to worship there because they are singing old hymns. Young people want to sing contemporary songs with distortion, drums and other songs. The Lord said make a joyful noise, he said nothing about singing hymns over and over until you beat them to death!
Way to stoke the fires of “us vs. them”, JD.
First of all, who cares about the style of music, as long as it is scripturally sound, AND glorifies GOD.
We have a mix of traditional and contemporary music in our services. It is chosen because it fits the theme of the service, not because of the genre. We have a pretty even mix of older and younger congregants, and sure each person has their own preference as to style, but I look, and listen around, and see and hear a fairly high percentage of participation,
We need to get past the mindset of one genre being better than the other and listen to the message rather than the beat. Sure it feels great to be all pumped up during and after a song, but we need to ask ourselves if it really spoke to our spirit or rather to our emotions. We are supposed to “walk by faith, not by sight (emotions)” 2Cor 5:7
These days too much emphasis is placed on the experience WE get from the music, instead of realizing that worship is for GOD. And, if it is truly worship, it will bring us into His presence, regardless of the style of music.
Too say that churches are dying because their congregations are aging and they sing hymns, is an oversimplification of the problem, and has more to do with a church’s teaching than the music program. If the two are not sound, and don’t complement each other then the message of Christ is lost, and it becomes a social gathering, with no positive spiritual value whatsoever.
I am 62 years old. I sang hymns all my life but I don’t read music. I listen the first time and then I’ve got it. Not being able to read music is not a reason, to choose NOT to sing praises to the Lord.
I FULLY AGREE! I play trumpet at a professional level and involved in 4 groups in my city. The worship music neither worship or music. The melody is lacking in interest, the words are too often vague and about as inspirational as singing to one’s cat. I sit there in the Lord’s House with a bad attitude and I am troubled in my heart about this. Therefore, I stay away. There are countless thousands like me nationwide I am sure. I miss true worship music. Miss it so much. And yes….just look around…nobody is singing. Hello?
JD’s ‘shove-it-down-their-throats’ methodology is more of why there is a conflict. If he is a music minister, he should be very careful. The enemy hates competition. If JD feels fine with what he’s doing, he should worry for perhaps the enemy is also fine with it! ~ I pretty much agree with ‘kevinSings’ and the paucity of music education enabled by abandoning the hymnals, as Julie laments, is a huge problem as well. In my prison ministry, many of the inmates come from churches where they may even have served as worship team members. Almost none of them know the least about singing or anything about harmony! No matter, though, as most of the new songs can be sung in a monotone and have such vapid lyrics that they could be secular songs! If the church is failing, I’d say it was from boredom; no challenge. JD claims the young people do not like old hymns, but it seems to me that we tell them they should not like them. After all, JD claims the answer is karaoke!
JD – Although you make valid points, distortion, drums, Crowder & Hillsong don’t amount to a hill of beans (no pun intended) unless people approach worship in the right way. As Ravi Zacharias out it doing a workshop on worship, ….”Unless you worship Him individually, you cannot worship Him corporately.” Zacharias further said, “Worship is the submission of all of our nature (ourselves) to God.”
You can have the best songs, hymns, lighting, etc etc – but unless people approach it in the right manner making our Lord the focus, then I don’t care where you go to church…. it will be meaningless!
JD, Its not about catering to one specific generation. God didn’t make exceptions nor will he ever. I do understand that there are churches that do cater to a specific ‘kind’ of people, but i don’t think this is the case. Singing is an act of worship that depends on our relationship to God. Modernizing a church is a great move, but changing the cornerstone of worship is another. i support greatly the argument of set up and carryout.
JD have you ever read the actual words to some of those “old hymns”? Those words are powerful and full of scripture then most of the christian “worship” songs today. A lot of them were born out of hard-time, heart felt worship to the Lord. There are also a lot of young people who only enjoy the moment and do not understand what worship is…it is the beat that draws them. When you talk about catering to the “older” people, remember what the scripture teaches in Proverbs 16:31 “A gray head is a crown of glory; It is found in the way of righteousness” and Proverbs 20:29 “The glory of young men is their strength, gray hair the splendor of the old”…many of those “older” people have fought fierce battles in the trenches of this worlds wickedness (and I am speaking spiritually) for you to be able to even stand in a church today. I love Hillsong and David Crowder and churches play their songs to death and repeating the same chorus lines over and over and over and over and over again for 20 minutes. My suggestion is to honor all those called saints, remembering the glory of the young is their strength, and the glory of the old is the battles they fought on their knees and honor them with something that touches their hearts also.
Joy, I agree. Andrea Bocelli can’t “read” music either.
I don’t know if I am considered young by others or not (I am 36) but I love hymns. I can’t sing them well and I have only been in the church for 13 years but I do so love when they are sang at church. I even attend hymn sings at other churches with my husband when I can. The voices stand out so strongly as opposed to when newer songs are played. It seems like everyone gets pulled into them and you can’t help but sing along. That being said I love the new music as well but mainly only sing them loud when I am home. My kids tell me how out of tune I am every time 🙂
People at my church sing. People at the 2 other churches I’ve visited in recent years sang. Maybe it’s that I’m so involved in worship that I don’t notice that people far from me are not singing, but I hear the people around me singing. I see the people in front of me involved in worship, including teens. The one church I’ve been to in my life where it was conspicuously obvious that no one was singing was a Methodist church in the early 1990’s where everyone was standing and holding their hymnals but I did not hear one voice around me. Being a self-conscious teen, I did not sing either. That was a strange experience.
I can’t believer all the responses here that contend not having the music is not a factor. I’m sorry, but it absolutely is. As a professional musician, I deeply resent trying to sing along with an unfamiliar song because I don’t know it; And I have never understood why contemporary churches are so adamant in not providing the printed music. It doesn’t get in the way; people who don’t read music have never been confused by having the music in front of them — they just ignore it. I, however, am shut out from participating in worship or giving my best because I don’t know the tune. And please don’t tell me “yes, you can sing along.” No, I can’t — I do my best to pick up the admittedly repetitive and vapid tunes, but I do not feel I am fully participating or giving God my best. In fact, I am so focused on trying to guess what the melody might be that any meaning of the song is completely forgotten. Sorry; the conventional practice of just providing words is completely wrong-headed, and its the main reason no one sings anymore. If the music is not important, why provide the words? Why not just force
everybody to guess on words and music both?
I agree with you, strongly. My experience has been the same.
Lack of music notation leads to everyone singing the melody. A few
might pick up on harmony parts, but without notation, the harmony
is harder to find. Is that what we really want? Everyone on melody?
Why are we throwing away this simple and effective means of giving people
information? (and instead leaving them to wonder where the song goes
next)
If music notation is not needed, why do we provide printed scripture?
People can just “pick that up by listening”, right?
Some think printed music is too expensive, but then they spend tens
of thousands of dollars on sounds systems, which when used incorrectly,
covers the voices in the congregation.
With all due respect is this about your performance or worshiping God?
Perhaps a metaphor will help. On Sunday mornings we are part of a garden that
hopefully, flourishes in praise to God. Whether you’re in the worship band
or at the mixing board, or singing in the congregation, you are part of
that musical garden, and it is so good when that garden makes great sounds.
As a long-time musician, arranger and composer I’ve learned a few things about
what helps that garden flourish and what does not. Providing musical notation
can be a great help in getting to that point.
Does it glorify God to create an environment where people cannot flourish
musically? Is God honored when we stumble around, trying to find our way
through a song? I want to sing those parts, I want to hear my neighbor do the same,
I want to hear the piano player come up with really cool chord voicings, and
I want to hear the drummer throw in some fun cross-rhythms. Ahh – the garden
in full bloom.
To answer your question – it’s about every plant in the garden performing well,
and by so doing, bringing honor to God.
JD,
Your appeal to numbers is telling.
I’ve seen thousands of young people sing to Pearl Jam. Great music but not Holy.
If I can find a church that sings real songs and not the junk on the wall I will start going back to church again! I get nothing from the junk on the wall and it has about got to the point that preachers are afraid to preach the real gospel anymore for fear of making someone mad.
Sorry JD, but you are wrong. Many young people do like to sing hymns. Many of them love the liturgy. There are many young people who feel that church music should be different than what they hear everywhere else. You don’t necessarily need to be able to read music, but it helps, especially when you sing parts, which I regularly hear at college chapel and evening prayer services. The churches in the area that most students attend have good acoustics and well maintained, well voiced, and well tuned pipe organs. They also have organists (some who are professors at the university) who are more than capable of leading and supporting congregational singing.
Distortion and drums do not improve singing, especially when songs are generally written with a soprano or tenor in mind. This cuts off and alienates the majority of people who fall into the category of alto and bass. Add in the fact that this overpowers everyone else, they have no reason to sing.
There is a difference between overpowering music and having a place for less confident singers to “hide.” Good acoustics encourage confident singing. Less confident singers feel as though they have somewhere to hide even though they are singing loudly. They hear everyone around them, but cannot pick out specific voices. As a result, they feel that incorrect notes won’t result in them being singled out.
Couldn’t click respond to JD’s comment below,
but Yes, Young people do love to sing hymns, and the reason young people flock to see Hillsong or Crowder is because it’s a CONCERT, most are not going to Worship God when they go to those, they are going to hear a concert. just as if they were going to any other rock concert.
And if they are only going to church to be entertained by the ‘concert’ then your right THEY WILL leave as soon as the entertainment is gone, or stopped, and it shows more their heart was not into the WORSHIP of God, but the entertainment they were getting.
JD, those “young people” you’re so keen on attracting… are sick of the side-show. They want substance.
I don’t think it’s simply a music problem.. I’ve been in church for as long as I can remember and have been a participatory member all my life. I’ve taught children’s choir for almost 25 and they do not want to sing hymns unless we jazz them up (Thank you Chris Tomlin)! But again, I don’t think that is the crux of the issue – I think people are getting lazy all the way around (well on Sundays) – they come in and expect the worship team to make them feel good, get them pumped up, they expect the pastor to preach an uplifting message (and please do not tell me I have responsibilities as a member).. we have become spectators in church and look at the leaders of the church to bless us, make us feel good about ourselves, and get us out in time to beat the crowd at the local restaurant for lunch. Gone seem to be the days when there was personal conviction, personal responsibility – what can I contribute – It shouldn’t matter what the pastor is preaching (as long as it is Biblical), It shouldn’t matter what style the choir, worship team, or Sally’s grandma is singing.. You come to church to corporately worship with fellow believers and that means you must participate not just have your ears scratched. If you can’t find God in an upbeat song, or a hymn, or whatever – that is something you need to address with God not blame the leaders!..
I agree in principle Julie, but what does reading music have to do with it? On the contrary, if they are standing up and singing hymns and being active and joining in, then they are singing…vocalizing. They either know the words already from joining in on Sundays and singing, or they are reading the words to the song in the hymn book. Why does anyone have to read music? They are standing at the pews singing, not playing an instrument. The people onstage are the ones playing the instruments. Unless you are making another point, I’m just not sure what you mean. Sorry!
“Why does anyone have to read music? They are standing at the pews singing, not playing an instrument.”
Are you unfamiliar with the fact that most hymns are written in 4-part harmony, and successfully singing the accurate part requires a modicum of music-reading skill?
If not, I’m not really following your point.
Printed music notation (as in a hymnal) is very useful for singers as well as instrumentalists. Printed music helps you find your part, and just like reading aloud, you can look ahead to see where the next notes are going – unlike the guessing we must do when singing only with words.
Music notation is a quick, shorthand method of communicating what notes to sing. The basics are not difficult: Your voice should follow the direction the notes are moving (up/down/stay the same) with a change in pitch that corresponds to the distance up/down the notes change. Combine this with listening carefully, and you can find the pitches.
Isn’t it difficult to worship while so focused on notes, finding your part and looking ahead?
No.
That same argument could be made against reading words (the Psalms, for example) during worship. Can you focus on worship while reading words and looking ahead?
Some people struggle with the fact that they did sing a part (alto, tenor, bass) in choir growing up, but when they go to church and sing a new song, the parts aren’t there to read and follow. There are many people who can sing harmony when they can read it, but can’t hear it as well. It’s hard to guess a bass line or tenor line to a new song. I guess it doesn’t matter though, since the most popular new songs really don’t have a place to sing along in harmony. It seems to me that many of the new praise songs are more “solo” oriented. That’s sad. And if we sing songs that are written in the key of many popular worship leaders, it is too high or too low to sing.
Incredibly ironic that JD wrote “The Lord said make a joyful noise, he said nothing about singing hymns over and over until you beat them to death!” There is so little variation in the contemporary music. And let’s sing that chorus over and over until we’re all hypnotized. Even Tim Hawkins poked fun at that aspect.
The contemporary songs would be better accepted in our church if the lyrics were not repeated over, and over, and over until they are beaten to death. We mix the older hymns in with the contemporary songs. That seems to work OK…….except for the repetition problem.
Since I do read music and I like to sing, I will tell you that if I’m presented with a new piece of music, I’m NOT singing if I don’t see the music. The words are not enough. I can read music and I can fully participate if I can see the music, but not if it’s not there. And, I would also say that while there certainly are wonderful examples of contemporary music that can be incorporated into worship, why is it that we must discard and discount hundreds of years of tradition. Is there a problem with learning some Bach and Handel, some Martin Luther and John/Charles Wesley or some Ralph Vaughan Williams along with Hillsong? I don’t think we need to trash tradition altogether because some people don’t “consume” that type of music. And, there isn’t anything wrong with all of us experiencing something new and edifying – and that goes both ways – we can learn new songs and old songs. And we can have the music there for people who want it in order to participate in worship.
Interesting article and loved reading the comments on the page. Sit back a bit David if you don’t mind my forthcoming rant…
There is this attitude that occurred around the mid ’90’s, that more emotionally charged worship music was more relevant to the masses, hymns were passé, and even my beloved Integrity music’s offerings were becoming somewhat worn. As a music director in my church at the time, I was somewhat persuaded that the newer songs ( a la Hillsong, Vineyard et al) were better, and far more hip and in touch with generation “why”, the EMO generation of Smashing Pumpkins, Counting Crows, Stone Temple Pilots and the like. I was told that we had to appeal to this generation. That they were the ones we had to reach because they were so much more ahead than us baby boomers or generation x’s.
My instinct at the time was, yes try and accommodate them, but also stick to things that people know. This was rejected by the powers that be in my own church, and dare I say it, in a lot of churches the world over. Consequently, we have a lot of mediocre, emotionally charged songs with very little spiritual input that very few people can sing because we have to keep up with the “hits” – every Sunday!! Not good for congregational singing on the whole.
On the other hand, I have to disagree with the author about his “professionalism” statement. In years past, most churches had only an organ present as an instrument for worship leading. As far back as I can remember, every church I went into that had an organist, had an extremely competent one. When more instruments like guitar, drums, bass, brass, keys,and most notably, vocalists were added, I found the standard slipping dramatically! Anyone who could play only two chords, had only a modicum of talent in any department browbeat the Music Director or Pastor to have a part in the worship team. More dangerously, Pastors wives who fancied themselves as singers, whether they had the talent or not, not only took on this mantle, but that of worship leader as well. I say “hear hear” to the rise of professionalism in church music – it was sorely needed and was there a long time before the ball was dropped. Now let’s see if the songwriting can rise up to match the lyrical content of those old hymns, or even Integrity Music’s Praise and Worship. I somehow doubt that it will.
JD,music minister… I learned to read music by following along in the hymn book growing up. I have two adult children, four teens, three preteens (and younger) children who prefer a church that sings hymns, not just radio-worship music. Music has driven them out of the youth groups – they don’t feel it’s worship, they feel it’s entertainment & that’s not what church is for.
Today’s youth want ‘authenticity’ I hear over and over as a churchy catch phrase… they also want to be treated as if they are smart and capable of understanding God’s word as it is – not watered down, babied, and worship songs with real depth is part of that.
Your losing kids by treating them as such. You’re losing church members because they want deeper, ‘authenticity’ and that means worship of God – not songs that song to each other, not surface-level repetitive dribble!! (And, before you think it, we did not raise our kids with hymns-only, but including them and our family enjoys a wide range of music styles)
Get JD, it’s all his fault! 🙂
When the very rare Old Hymn is chosen as the next piece, I look around and see everyone singing. I sing out loud with joy in my heart.
Recently a young person in front of me actually came up to me after the service and commented to me that he enjoyed hearing my great voice. I thanked him but informed him that it was the young man next to me, and we both thanked him. The hymn was a wonderful old song that everyone knew, and all five verses were full of praise to God and scriptural truth, a veritable 3 minute sermon.
The “chorus” after it was one short benign, meaningless collection of about 6 words, that were repeated over and over for about 6 minutes or more. Some Sundays I have to look around when I come in to church, thinking I dropped in on an Aerosmith concert by mistake, because of the distortion guitar solos. I have actually seen an 80 year old lady climb over her husband with her fingers in her ears, and run for the exit. But she is getting better, now she sits quietly in the chair (the pews were removed), with her fingers in her ears, or she and her husband wait in the lobby until the “music” stops.
A chorus one Sunday when I was an usher, went something like this:
How long. How long. How long, Oh Lord, How long.
(Repeat)
(Repeat)
(Repeat)
(Repeat)
(Repeat)
8 minutes of that was too much for a young lady friend of mine, who got up while the song was still going and decided to visit the rest room. On the way past me, she said quietly to me, “How long. How long. How long is this song?”
Our congregation today is at about 30% of what it was 10 yeas ago. So much for changing with the times to draw people in.
The majority of people don’t want to sing hymns. We want to reach people who aren’t in church not the ones already there!
And you think hymns can’t reach people? Oh my goodness! What to you think people sang for hundreds of years? I suppose none of them were ever “reached”??? How then did people ever get saved down through history?? Why can’t we appreciate different kinds of worship music, as long as it is INDEED worship music?? Some of today’s “worship songs” could be sung to your boyfriend instead of to God. Worship songs need to have a clear message about worshipping God. You never had to worry about that with the old hymns.
JD I was just wondering can you give me a single scripture that says it’s okay to have instruments in worship?
Psalm 150
1 Praise the Lord.
Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens.
2 Praise him for his acts of power; praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals.
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.
Julie, I totally agree. Have to strongly disagree with JD. You don’t have to read music to sing along….IF you know the song! What goes on in most churches now needs to stay in the nightclubs. I only get sad that I have no interest in attendance~ And thank you Robert for your post…you nailed it. With all the 7-11 songs (7 words, repeat 11 times), it really would be easier to learn the words than the music.
Throw out the old because the young controls! If the youngsters want it they get it! See anything wrong with that? Accommodate all generation’s. Work together. Team! Stop giving all to young and give the glory to God not kids!
When did reading music become a salvation issue?
JD – I’m 24 years old, and my favorite songs to sing in church are hymns. When I’m having a particularly bad day, I sing along to hymns. When I’m scared or anxious, I sing along to hymns. Hillsong, Crowder, Rend Collective, Phil Wickham, and Young & Free are some of my favorite Christian artists, but when I want to truly meditate on God’s Word, I turn to hymns. I didn’t grow up singing hymns, either. I grew up singing Chris Tomlin, MercyMe, Jeremy Camp, and Michael W. Smith. But you know what? I roll my eyes every time I hear one of those songs in church. To me, those songs are worn out. And I’ll sing Rend Collective’s praise songs at the top of my lungs, but in 10 years, I know I’ll be rolling my eyes again. However, there is something of endurance in hymns. I have known the song ‘Tis So Sweet since I was small, but that is the first song I turn to when I am scared, every single time. There is value in good music. Praise songs can be good music, but so can hymns.
Our very multi-generational church sings hymns every Sunday. Everyone, from youngest to oldest, sings joyfully. All you need is words? Hymnals are full,of them. For those of us who read music, it makes it easier to sing. Our congregation sings harmony, and frequently a capella. And hymn odd also has pedagogical purposes. Good ones teach sound theology, and the music helps it stick. My observations over the years would say that it’s praise songs that get repeated ad nauseum. Our hymnal has 700+ hymns; not much repetition there. I don’t buy JD’J’S argument at all.
I’ve been in several churches where the majority of the worshippers couldn’t read music.
Yet many people were singing along.
I have read many of the responses and I am glad that as believers we are having these types of discussions! My personal preference in Church are Hymns, but I also love many contemporary songs as well. I agree that not having strong music programs in school has created a decline in music proficiency. I also agree that churches should also be cautious not to make worship a performance! I want to remind everyone that our relationship with God is very personal and that we should be able to worship Him in any setting regardless of who or what is going on around us. I think the biggest problem we face today is everyone’s expectation that Church will fulfill them either through worship or message. God wants a personal relationship with each of us and we can have that if we truly desire it! If you stop going to church in protest then you might’ve been going for the wrong reasons your whole life! Most contemporary songs are played on the radio nationally. If you don’t know the songs your church is singing then turn on the radio, YouTube, Spotify, etc! Remember to seek God and don’t be bitter when you don’t have things catered to your liking, but rather find ways to worship God in any circumstance. You will find yourself caught up in worship rather then complaints!
One thing is clear, if we stay in our 1950’s style services then our churches will die and eventually close. A vibrant worship time is essential, and Biblical. The church in the UK is sliding away into oblivion with attendances daylong year in and year out. The only churches that are bucking national trends are charismatic evangelical/ independent churches where you can actually see that these people have a real and true relationship with God. Many of them are full of young people and young families where the music is professional, the worship is exciting and where the message is not compromised as some may wish to accuse.
The Point you are missing and I doubt, if you would know. It’s the power of the Holy Spirit.
With the power of the Holy Spirit more can be done than all the professionalism.
God did not want the church to be a place where a few people are showing off there talents and no one else can be used, because they do not have enough talents.
I believe if Brother John opr Sister Mary who are elderly and their voice cracks should be allowed if they so desire to worship as the leaders in the band.
Any decent band can play along with any individual and improve their sound.
I sing harmony and I know harmony. It was not taught by man to me, but I got my talent or gift from the Lord. I also play guitar.
I have seen these people who could not sing real good, when a person like myself, would step beside them and start singing with them, the confidence would build and there singing improve because someone didn’t think they were too good to sing with them.
I have done this many times in my life. I guess you could say my singing was a ministry of helps.
Yes I know there were churches and still are, where there is no excitement in their singing. But if that is what that group of people want. They deserve the right for it to be that way.
But I will say, who or what gives the right of the younger people to come into a an establish church that maybe you have grew up in and change the mode of worship, just because I think it is going to die. Who says a church should continue on and on for years. A Small Business does good to have a life expectancy of more than 50 years. That is just the nature of things..
You wanta know why the churches started putting the words on the wall. It was business standpoint. They did not want to spend money on church hymnals That is the whole thing in a nutshell. Hymnals are expensive, so they figures out a way to cut cost. But they did at dissatisfaction of a lot of church members If a poll was taken you would probably find that most people prefer holding the song book in there hand and singing the songs. than reading the words on the wall.
.
Scotty, Scotty, Scotty. So the reason churches are abandoning choral singng is to avoid the cost of hymnals?! Do you have any inkling what the cost of the setup to go to a contemporary stage setup is? I apologize I didn’t hold to my guns and actually leave this thread, but you are so entertaining I stick around to see what is next…
I didn’t say set up a stage. I was talking about overhead projectors and putting the words on the walls. They started putting the words on the wall, then the other followed but not at all the same time. Yes I am aware of the cost of a set to show off that smoke and mirrors.
Stay around and I will see the liberal twist my words or add to them to try to get a meaning.
The fact is the younger come in and think their ideas are and idea from the past are no good.
Just look at the worldliness in the church.
Check out this link.
mmmmm….why is the school systems job to teach kids how to read music? I miss the hymns partly because that IS how my kids learned to read music, and they did not even realize it at the time. I showed them. ME. How about YOU show them. Sheesh. Stop laying blame and fix it.
JD for real?? I’m in my early 20’s and the old hymns encourage me so much more than (most) contemporary music. They are rich and poetic and beautiful and remind me, when I’m struggling, how much bigger God is than my abilities or struggles or whatever it is i’m going through at that moment. They point the focus back to God. So much of contemporary music is about how God makes me feel instead of who God is or worship towards Him. That is why I don’t sing (when I don’t)- because the songs are about me and not about my God.
@JD – As a young person I have to disagree with your statement that we don’t like the old hymns. I actually can’t stand most of the new songs that have taken over contemporary services as they’re often difficult to sing along with and more importantly, rarely are grounded in scripture. The hymns are much more moving and have much stronger messages. Yes you should ditch the pipe organs and octogenarian on the piano, but you shouldn’t replace the music with vapid trite either.
I agree with you Mitch Trigger! I teach music and am a vocal coach – specializing in training worship leaders.. Young people are not being taught basic vocal skills in school choirs, etc. to simply jump right in and ,may leave them shying away for practical reasons. That should also be a worship leader’s role…to teach the importance from Scripture of WHY we sing, and that we should lift our voice in Song to the Lord. This should be a starting point for the Church in getting people to respond like they should in worship. let’s start turining this around!!
Well, I attend a very culturally diverse church.. There is no lack of enthusiasm shown in our sanctuary… And yes its loud.. But if your thinking were right, the issue would be universal. So if the congregation is growing lame… Maybe its just a lame congregation.
There are many nice new hymns for every Sun. Many do not have good speaking skills from home, school, even Sunday School. I do not teach anymore because kids even adults are not verbally engaged. The bosses do not like me for it, anyway, I force people to speak publicly. We are pandering to the lowest…
Get everyone in the church drunk and I’m sure they will be willing to do karaoke.
Here’s the problem…..ignorance of the Word. Eph. 5:18 -19 states,
“Do not be drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.” We’re reaping what we’re sowing. Teach the full cousel of God and don’t scrimp on what He tells us and the body of Christ will be a healthier body and not sickly and dysfunctional.
That is actually, funny but in a way there is some truth in the sense that in Eph. 5 it tells us to “Be not drunk with wine but be filled with the Holy Spirit, singing songs, hymns and spiritual song, making melody in our hearts to the LORD…” This verse includes all styles, What we need in the church is to get this part right where Jesus said, God is searching for those who will worship in spirit and in truth… That comes from a deeper level.
As for the lack of chorus in singing, when everyone demands cuts in taxes the first things that will go in schools are music and chorus.
when I retired as choral director at my highschool…they didn’t replace me, just dropped chorus, much to my dismay.
Every excuse in the book is on this thread. Truth is, if you are really in love with God and His presence is the focal point of your gathering, you will worship. The real root is within, anything else is just self delusion. Yes, there are some modern worship songs that stink, and for many reasons, but old does not equal good, and many hymns are poorly written and deficient in theology as well.
I have to agree with Madyar! If you truly love the Lord and are in church FOR Him and to WORSHIP Him, then it won’t matter what songs they are singing or how loud the band is, etc…you will truly worship the Lord regardless! It’s so easy to make excuses and justify these things, but I believe that maybe we should search our own hearts first! (I go to a church where the worship is very contemporary and we have both older and younger people who attend…most everyone worships out loud, but there are always a few who don’t…just like at every other church!).
i agree 100%. The article and responses point to every excuse but within. It’s almost written to make him feel better about himself and to give others excuses.
Well said madyar. There are a thousand excuses that can pop into anyone’s head on a Sunday morning on why one shouldn’t put in the effort to worship…. let’s be honest, it’s an effort! You have other things competing for your focus. I find that I have to just close my eyes and maybe even raise my hand (which is bold in my conservative Baptist church) and forget about everyone else and remind myself to whom I’m singing these praises.
So much of what this article talks about boils down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I do not agree that these are the reasons why people don’t sing, I’ve been to Hillsong and Chris Tomlin concerts where the music was LOUD, CONTEMPORARY, very much a SPECTATOR set-up and obviously very PROFESSIONAL…. and they have been some of the most meaningful worship experiences I’ve had because people are not only SINGING but WORSHIPING. When I looked around I saw many with their faces turned to heaven, singing for all they’re worth. Singing does not equal worshiping!
The problem (IMO) is that our hearts are not in the right place and we are too chicken and/or lazy to get it there. And I say this knowing that on many Sunday’s, that’s me too… it takes practice and an ability to forget about appearances.
Amen.
Please people lets not forget the corporate aspect of worship as well as the personal. If/how your brother or sister in Christ is worshiping in the music and and other aspect of a service where the believers gather, it affects you whether you like it or not. This small article has some strong points. Musical worship in the context of a gathering of believers is NOT just about closing your eyes and trying to imagine yourself in a room alone with God. We desperately need to drop this North American thinking that a relationship with God is an individual matter alone. It is for sure, but there is a HUGE aspect of interdependence and interaction with other Christians that we can’t ignore, and which affects us greatly.
Yes, I agree totally–deficient in theology–especially anything a real Christian young person can relate to, like all that blood washing–that’s the religion of Mithra, not Jesus, the Christ that came before Jesus. How about all that stupid stuff all these old songs have in their lyrics that no one in their right mind would ever preach about today, and then there are all those songs in the key of high C that no one can sing along with because their voice ain’t that high pitch
I have a problem with songs that are not in the right pitch to sing along with and that is most of them.
Disagree. I’ve been there. While I love the Lord and love to sing, I can not sing or get into today’s “worldly accepted” singing. The people are not singing because their is no TRUE spirit of worship in many songs of today. While we may have the instruments and the words sound good, to many, they are not good heart felt songs sung to the Lord but to the church itself. We have allowed the world to control our true spirit of worship and due to this, many while not being able to put a finger on what’s wrong, can’t enter in. We are hungry for a mighty move of God in our whole service which includes singing. I’ve recently started going to a smaller church who is not interested in bringing the world in but has a true heart of worship. Even the teens sing at this church.
Thank you and Amen!
I agree, I go to church to worship God! I sing in the choir, I’m not a great singer, but I’m not singing to be great, I’m singing to worship God, He doesn’t care that I’m not a great singer, He only cares that I’m there to worship Him. I love gospel music, I love to sing and praise God in song. The best thing is, the church I attend, the focus is on God and God’s Word, most people sing, and we even sing when the pianist isn’t there. We are simply there to worship God, to praise Him.
I agree with you so much! I’ve been in churches that sang only hymns and old worship songs and also been in churches that sang only new songs. Some of the churches that sang the new stuff had powerful worship where everyone participated and some of the churches that sang only the old stuff had services I didn’t even want to call worship because very few people sang, and the ones that did sing did it with a sing-a-long at the campfire type attitude. It’s not really whether the song is new or old, it’s your attitude and heart and motives for worship. If you really want to worship you will find a way to do it even if you hate the songs or don’t know the songs.
Thank you, Madyar. I am a professional musician and singer, but when I go to church or worship the Lord, I take off that hat. It’s not about me. Frankly, I am not embarrassed to say I don’t even know if people in my church sing or worship as I think they should because I am not focused on them, impressing them or keeping tabs if they like the hymns or the contemporary songs. I sing out loud and strong to my Lord in the privacy of my home, car, with my granddaughter, in the barn cleaning stalls, jogging, etc. It’s a matter of heart. “He who is forgiven much, loves much.” I have been forgiven more than I could ever express or share. And I love my Lord deeply. I am not ashamed to belt it out or bow my head in tears because in that moment I can’t sing. I know He could careless about my performance in worship. Don’t be Pharisees. “Let is Go!”
This is so well-written! I agree. We attend a church that is more contemporary in music. There are thousands of people attending every weekend and it is a very diverse group. Yesterday, as I was serving, I watched teenagers, families young and old, 70+ year olds walking into church. Our church offers an area out in the lobby area for those who don’t want to the loudness of the music. There are maybe 30 seats out there and they are usually never filled. The main seating area is packed with hundreds of people every service. My kids finally lo e going to church, not only because they can relate to the music style, which in turn does make them feel the message more, but because the overall experience, including the sermon, is so much more heartfelt. They have broke out of the box to truly reach people. I had not attended church in almost 16 years because even though my heart was there, I just didn’t feel they were reaching me spiritually. From the first time I attended our new church I have felt truly connected to God! I hear the messages and feel them deeply. We have not missed a service yet and I am involved in our church now as well as my whole family is. There is nothing lost on having contemporary music or even loud music. I see people of all ages with their hands in the air singing not because they are focused on whether they sound ok or not but because they are praising Him with their song. I for one never participated in singing traditional hymns. I do not know them and although beautiful in meaning, they just didn’t provoke a feeling deep inside of me to sing out in praise. I know that is different for all people and all ages. We each have something that speaks to us and as long as we can find it and let it reach us so we in turn can focus on the message of God then I don’t think either is the wrong choice. If you don’t feel driven to sing out and show your praise in church all because of the music, you’ve lost the focus or maybe you need to find a church that is more fitting to you spiritually. I love my church!!
I agree totally with you which made me think of Matt Redman’s reason for writing “The Heart of Worship”. Look it up. It really speaks to this issue of worship and music
I whole heartedly agree. Worship comes from the heart. If we’re so immature that we can’t worship to a newer song that is good or an older one that is good simply based on taste and style alone, then we are indeed shallow people and not worthy of the Father’s love. You are right. Throughout every generation there have been both good and bad songs. A good Worship leader (being led of the Holy Spirit) will choose songs that are full of truth (new AND old) bringing both the old and young together.
Yes! I didn’t see this before I replied, but I basically said this. Worship is for HIM. not me. I will worship regardless of the music.
I both agree and disagree with you. Worship is definitely about HIM. However, in our corporate worship; and frankly in many other aspects of our walk; it is also about our brothers and sisters. The fact of the matter is, not everyone is where they should be in regards to their attitudes during worship. And they may struggle adopting the right attitude when certain things occur during corporate worship. Should they be immune to that – sure. Are they immune to it – unfortunately no. As in any other area of liberty – we need to make our choices with consideration for our brothers and sisters. Where I have a choice – should I choose that which best pleases me? Best pleases others? Best encourages others to worship God?
Should we effectively say: “Just do the right thing”; or perhaps: “Here, let me help you do the right thing”? Someone might say: “I have a problem with drinking”; should we reply with the statement: “Well – just don’t drink”. No – that’s silly. Of course we tell them that excessive drinking is sinful – they know that. What we should do is to engage with them to adopt behaviors that encourage good behavior and avoid their areas of weakness. Similarly, people know they should have a better attitude during worship. So the question is: how can we help each other develop and maintain a better attitude in worship? Might leadership make different choices that helps the weaker of our number? I think that’s the point of this blog article.
Again I need to ask, to those who say we just need to worship earnestly, no matter what the music is…
What will you do if your church and your neighborhood gets a huge influx of people
who love polka? Your church leadership desperately wants to attract them, so they
switch worship to a polka format. Tubas and accordions and lederhosen, oom paa,
oom paa week after week, and up front, guys with beer bellies, leading the thing.
No more electric guitar solos, no more cool string pads.
Will you still worship there? Even if you hate polka music?
It’s a fair question, because it’s analogous to what happened when pop/rock
music and sensibilities replaced traditional worship music. Culture shock and
a sense of loss, even for those for those who’s hearts ARE in the right place.
This is THE Problem. eard it said excuses are like armpits everybody has a couple and they stink. PLay music but don’t read it. All by ear bu I know when people are worshipping you can see it even as Jesus felt when “Virtue” had gone out of Him. So much to say but never do like to argue over things but all here don’t need to focus on JD but on on YHVH, Yeshua JC, and HS you WIL NOT have a problem in worship
Every excuse in the book on this thread. Truth is, if you are really in love with God and His presence is the focal point of your gathering, you will worship. The real root is within, anything else is just self delusion.
Thank you! I was wondering if ANYBODY was going to mention this! I’m so tired of the “way we worship” being blamed for the attitudes of those who DON’T worship!!
The problem is, that if you rearrange worship to give the impression that it is about something OTHER than what it should be about, how can you blame people for picking up on that?
You also have churches that give lists of all the things we ought to do but almost never placard the beauty of Christ and his work for us. No wonder people aren’t in love with him. The pastors keep him hidden in a back closet somewhere and sometimes he gets an honorable mention.
Well We can find all kinds of excuses why people dont sing in churches anymore and I can certainly say that while some of your excuses has some merit. The main reason for spectators in churches today is that a lot of so called christians havent the slightest clue of what it means to be saved, much more a real relationship with Jesus. If people havent met Jesus and have a relationship with Him then they dont have a clue what true worship really is.
For someone to give the sorry excuse that songs are not known, among other things is a sign of immaturity. If you are a christian at all whether you know a song or not shouldnt be the determining factor as to whether you worship or not. You might not know a song but God has laid that song on the worship leaders heart because he has someone in the congregation that needs that specific song to minister to them for their particular situation. When you have a relationship with God you will come to realize that you are not Gods only child and He blesses those who chose to worship Him, so if you choose to go to church and find every excuse in the book why you cant open your mouth and raise your hands in honor to God for His sovereignty , and for sending His son to die for you then the only thing I can suggest to you is to check your relationship status, and for those who choose to join you in having “holy quietness” in church I implore you also to check your relationship status. You dont need to be able to sing like the worship leader to participate in worship, what you really need in oeder to Worship is a relationship with the king. “For God seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth. If you dont have a relationship with Jesus, you cant truly worship Him. Worship is not about anyone but God, and we should remove the focus off ourselves, the songs true worship leaders sing are directed to God so if you just shift the focus off yourself for a moment and raise your hand in honor to the king of kings, you will see how your perceptions willl change. David said I will enter in His gates with thanks giving in my heart, I will enter in His courts with praise. If you go ro Buckingham Palace you couldnt just fobin and stand with your mouts closed, you have to pay respect to the Queen , so why do you go to the house of the Lord and refuse to give Him the praise that is due to Him. Psalm 100 says “Make a joyful NOISE unto the Lord”so you dont have to have the VOICE of an archangel to worship God, He accepts noise as well. He made you so he knows the state of your voice, and He will appreciate it cause He chose to make it sound that way. And remember that God gave everyone gifts and talents, the worship leaders are doing what they need to do with theirs while you are hiding yours in your throat…Open your mouth and Give God praise no matter what. Dont hold back on God, crank up your relationship with Him and give Him Glory , Only Because He is WORTHY to be Praised
I disagree. I grew up in an era where choral music was taught to everyone from second grade through junior high. I also grew up in a fellowship that practiced a capella singing. I learned to sing well before I got to school. I learned to sing with a group of people where the voice was heard. I learned to harmonize sitting next to sisters who sang alto and tenor. I learned to director a chorus before I realized that it was even happening.
As a side note, by the time I reached high school, I had several teachers say that they would rather have children who had grown up in an a capella environment than those who could sight read because they had developed an ear for vocal music early on.
As a music/art major in college, I too deplore the lack of music and art training in our public schools. I just don’t think that it has an affect on congregational singing.
But that’s the point. Worship isn’t about professionalism. We’ve created a self consciousness that shouldn’t really matter in church. I know an old guy (now passed on to be with Jesus) who couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket. He didn’t care. He sang as loud as anyone. These days, that kind of thing garners a lot of criticism and shuts the majority of ‘joyful noises’ down because no one has a flawless voice and the service is all about what we do for God instead of him coming to us to minister to us with his gifts of word and sacrament.
Amen!
I am a worship leader and I heared a lot of people who are off turned while singing during worship. But I can feel them singing better than those who have good voices. It’s because they sing more from their hearts vs those people who just wanted to be heard by the congregation because they can sing. God looks inside of the human heart and not the outside appearance.
That old guy who couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket probably encouraged more people to sing than a peppy worship director, well rehearsed band, or any number of perfectly trained vocalists.
His imperfect singing would encourage the people around him to sing:
“I can do better than that”
“Maybe if I sing loud, I won’t be able to hear him”
Soon you have a whole church singing loud. All because of one person who couldn’t sing.
YES! YES! AND YES! There is most definitely a correlation between lack of school music programs and general loss of interest in singing in general – let alone in churches.
At Christmas, Easter, funerals, etc, how does your congregation sing the songs they’re familar with …. loudly, comfortably, with feeling? Listen to your people worship with song. And yes, introduce the new songs that have a melody and they will be more willing to sing out loud! Some of these new songs are impossible to sing or even hum because there’s no melody! God bless us all! Thank you.
Very well said, Susan. I’m of the older generation, , have been involved in choirs, small groups, solo’d since I was 13. I grew up on the “old songs” . They are the foundation of our faith. I find today’s songs hard to sing, with no musicality . Therefore I seldom sing during the worship time; I don’t know them; they are different every Sunday, so can’t be learned. I’m very dismayed by many of these comments, who throw the older generation under the bus, as if we are of no value in the worship place any longer. We are the foundation & cornerstone of the church that the younger ones are privileged to a part of. We are all the body of Christ, valuable to God in our worship & commitment to Him. We must be able to blend together in harmony ( no pun intended) as we walk this path to Heaven.
Just one thing, I sometimes don’t sing because I cannot see the words on the board, I have a visual problem. It’s not just a case of stand at the front then, it’s sometimes down to quite a few factors, the font used and many other factors. I know I’m not the only one who suffers with this many of the elderly in our churches do for example do. I usually have to wait until I have fully learnt the song before I can join in, this is either by listening to the song by other means cd or radio (UCB) or otherwise by the leader singing it for a few weeks, thus the words become ingrown in my memory. I don’t really know what the answer is but just wanted to point out in some extreme situations there is reason for not singing and just listening.
The worship team do the worshipping for you in many churches ….. …kick back and let it roll ….I think there is too much emphasis on music as worship …its not the only way to worship Him ….
I think like the song–The Love of God, so rich and pure
It shall forever more endure
the saints and angels song.
The love of God is strong enough to endure our attempt at song.
That is true love.
I attend a Harvest Bible Chapel, I have never seen a more active worship in a church before.
Wow! Astute observation about Karaoke! So ironic that people are less shy singing SOLO, than in a group.
Please remember that Satan is deeply involved in the music industry, Christian and non. The worship must be to God and not a chance at America’s got talent. No disrespect to all involved please be very careful with music, it is Satan’s major weapon.
Satan’s weapon? well, I know what you mean, but anything of Satan is deception. God created the music and talents that produce it.. But who did Jehoshaphat send out before the army in 2 Chronicles 20:21-22? The singers .. worshippers… THE BAND!!! following God’s instruction of course.
What? Lol
When my Grand parents and parents were growing up they did not have choral programs in their little country schools or dinky high school yet they know the basics of music such as bass, tenor, alto soprano. Christian music today…where every part is tenor. Their parents taught them so the “schools today don’t have enough money or programs” argument is a non-starter.
When the music leaders on the stage are performing – those standing (or sitting) are an audience – when they lead (by song choice among other things) there is no need to ask those same folks stand to worship by their own accord-for the simple reason that the music becomes the shared gateway to become a congregation giving voice and heart to worship our Lord. Seen it both ways.
You are incorrect. The only “audience” in worship is God to whom all worship is or should be directed. If the music leaders are on stage performing – for whom are they performing?
An excellent call-to-consider Thom; I’ve shared w/my list.
How are you folks doing? Still piloting the airways?
I recall our brief times of fellowship during ECPA and CBA.
Jack D Walker –
The Preacher’s Outline & Sermon Bible
In Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19-20, Paul gives us a responsibility to be executed during corporate worship: we are to speak (or sing) to one another. This means that we have a job to do: to hear and be heard singing to one another corporately. Anything which prevents us from hearing each other this impedes Paul’s injunction to us.
Volume is one thing which can prevent us from hearing one another: a pipe organ played more loudly than people can sing, and a sound system volume which masks the congregation’s sound are two examples. This is NOT a contemporary vs. traditional worship problem.
My doctoral dissertation was on the optimal acoustic conditions for congregational singing. Stated in one sentence, my findings were that the optimal level at which to hear the rest of the congregation sing was 81 dB and congregational volumes below about 70 dB and above about 90 dB DISCOURAGED congregational singing. The notion that people sing louder when the ambient volume is above 90 dB was countered by data showing that even though they actually sang louder, congregants did not feel they could worship properly with ambient sound above 90 dB and that they would prefer NOT to sing under 90+ dB conditions again. This is not my opinion but statistically verifiable data.
To my knowledge, nobody here has mentioned that sound levels about 85 dB begin to get into the territory of hearing damage depending on the length of exposure time according to the NIOSH specifications. (Consult the CDC website.) Why worship and hearing damage are even remotely associated is a mystery to me yet many churches regularly aim for sound levels in the low to mid-90 dB range. Is there any scriptural support for sound levels in excess of what is necessary for intelligibility?
Dr. David Gauger,
It would be a stretch to imply that Biblical worship (Strong’s H7812 – shachah, for example) means or requires singing, whether individually or corporately. If Biblical worship required singing then what do we make of Genesis 22:5.
Furthermore, Paul makes clear at the end of both Col 3:16 and Eph 5:19-20 that when we teach or admonish one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, our singing is to be directed to (not the congregant next to us, but to) God alone.
I’ve worked as a professional audio engineer for seventeen years including conducting demonstrations sponsored by the Audio Engineering Society on topics such as surround sound in live concert environments. I have also worked in the church technical-arts, radio, video production and the broadcast television industries for over thirty-five years in technical capacities. With all due respect to your research, I believe I am qualified to discuss sound reinforcement, amplification, sound pressure levels and audience response and interaction from the perspective of an industry professional.
Your statements regarding sound pressure levels are misleading. Someone who has done a Doctoral Dissertation on the topic should know that quoting SPL (sound pressure level) measurements are meaningless unless you state how the SPL measurements are weighted. “A weighted” measurements will have a very different perception of loudness than “C weighted,” for example. Furthermore, all precautions offered by reputable public and occupational safety organizations are very specific regarding not only which weighing system was used, but also the duration of exposure at those levels. Your comment addresses neither.
I am concerned that based on your use of the two scriptures quoted, as well as your handling of SPL measurements and the conclusions you have drawn it seems you have an agenda which you are attempting to force scripture and science to support.
Thomas,
I appreciate your comments, especially since you have had so much experience in the field of audio.
I agree with you that worship does not require singing and that there are many ways to worship besides singing. Point well taken. I also note that singing is used in the vast majority of corporate worship settings to one degree or another, so commenting on what transpires during corporate singing was my point and is not far from the crux of many of the comments on this blog.
As far as my handling of sound pressure levels is concerned, I am fully aware of C versus A weighting, but thought that most readers of this blog would prefer not to be bogged down with these details so I left them unsaid, but did not intend to communicate carelessness. In defense of my measurements, I found the quantification of singing volume to be quite problematic: do you make your A-weighted measurements during the loudest part of the song? The softest? On a certain word? How long is long enough to average the readings? I finally settled on the ITU-R BS.1770-2 standard which was designed to measure many kinds of audio material in a psycho-acoustic manner similar to the way the ear perceives volume. This would make it similar to A-weighting, but not exact. I felt that using an international standard was appropriate since anyone after me could verify my results. It was a way to make circumspect, precise, and repeatable measurements.
With respect to my mention of the NIOSH standard, I visited a well-known mega-church twice in the last 6 months and measured an average of about 94 dB (A weighted) with occasional peaks to 95 and 96 dB. I talked to the front-of-house engineer and he confirmed that the low to mid-90 dB levels were intentional. According to the NIOSH recommendations (85 dB for 8hrs with a 3 dB exchange) exposure to 94 dB levels is acceptable only for 1 hour during a 24 hour period. After that, hearing damage may occur. Since many churches sing for 30 minutes or more at sustained high volumes, this consumes half of one’s sound exposure for the entire day – at least at the 94 dB level – yet there are 23.5 hours of sound exposure remaining. Given the pervasive use of personal listening devices, phones, concerts, and the general loudness of our culture during those remaining 23.5 hours, I do not believe my comment is out of line.
I’m afraid we’re going to have to agree to disagree when you say that our singing is to be to God alone. Many books on worship mention a valid horizontal dimension during corporate worship where congregants sing and encourage one another with truths about God’s character and what He’s done. One example of this can be found on page 204 of John MacArthur’s book, Worship the Ultimate Priority, where he discusses “the biblically mandated didactic role of church music. We’re commanded to be ‘teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.'”
In my original post, my point was simply that anything loud enough to mask the singing of the rest of the congregation prevents us from admonishing and teaching each other. My research showed 81 dB to be the ideal level at which to hear the rest of the congregation singing and above 85 dB on average test subjects reported being overwhelmed by the ambient sound and they could not hear their own voices (measured according to the ITU-R BS.1770-2 international standard which roughly equates to A-weighting). This is much lower than many churches run their sound system so they unwittingly prevent their members from admonishing one another. Paradoxically, above 90 dB test subjects as a group reported they could not worship, even though they sang louder.
By the way, I love loud sound: I’m a professional trumpet player.
Thank you for bringing up the actual dB levels suitable/desired for mutual enjoyment of congregational singing. Wearing ear plugs to protect one’s hearing interferes with the ability to sing well. Doesn’t stop me, by any means, but I’m sure it messes with the tonality put forth.
What all Christians should do is follow the Bible’s example only. This means acacapella singing only. Get rid of microphones. Have only congregational singing only. No solos, duets, etc. Do it God’s way, not man’s. Restore first century Christianity. No one ever was given authorization to leave it anyway. But man likes to be entertained rather than worship God.
I agree. The church of Christ still sings acapella. Beautiful muisc.
Why is acapella “the Bible’s example”?
Where does the Bible say this?
Don’t you remember in the Bible where it described the Upper room where the disciples sang hymns, accompanied by a Pipe Organ, Piano, Base guitar, Drums and Fuzz Guitars, and the candles projected multicolored patterns on the ceiling? Oh Wait! That didn’t happen. Never Mind!
…if you read Psalms there are many times when instruments were included….
FOR GOODNESS SAKES DAVID PLAYED AN INSTRUMENT!
Like this is actually blasphemous to claim that God’s word says something that it doesn’t.
Be careful with that.
@ Phil N. I was wondering when the old C.O.C. comments were going to show up. You do understand that this is the poorest argument on the planet when discussing church ordinances of any kind. You cannot carry this argument out to any logical end, if so, then only the Amish are doing it right. Going by your own argument, you had better get rid of your A/C and your central heat, all your electricity, etc. Worship is not something you “do.” Worship is something that happens. For instance, just like the doctor doesn’t have to tell the knee to kick out when he taps it with his mallet, the rescued-from-death saved Christian does not have to be told to worship the One that rescued him or her. Worship is the reflex action of gratitude. You don’t have to tell a truly saved saint to worship, any more than you have to tell a mom to love and protect her kids. Passionless worship and worshipless passion are equally problematic and pandemic in the apostatizing American church, and both stem from the same root…i.e., people who haven’t been truly touched by the Great Physician, or who have allowed other idolatrous loves to continue in their hearts, those of which have choked out the seed. The demoniac of Gadarenes, Blind Bartimaeus, Mary Magdalene, and Mary of Bethany, each speak strongly to the theological principle of true worship being the immediate reflex action of overwhelming gratitude. The OT examples of Mephibosheth and Naaman as well typologically portray worship and devotion as reflex actions of “I-can’t-help-it!” This is the true biblical example of worship. Love never has to be told to love. And when you’re in love, sacrifices cease to be sacrifices. I never saw a groom say to his bride-to-be during a wedding ceremony right before he said his vows, “Excuse me dear, but how much is this going to cost me again?!” He is in love and if authentic his devotion will be unstoppable!
Yay! I hear my brother, well said good and faithful servant. 😉
Scripture does not support your acapella version of joyful noise and worship. There are many scriptures on cymbals and instruments.
2 Samuel 6:5
David and all Israel were celebrating with all their might before the LORD, with castanets, harps, lyres, timbrels, sistrums and cymbals.
I think another big part of an issue is to make people feel comfortable with their singing. Sometimes people are concerned because music can be too soft and they don’t want people to hear. Also, people should be reminded to make a “joyful noise” to the Lord… not just pitch-perfect singing – in fact the Bible doesn’t ask for or require pitch-perfect singing in the first place, but we do strive for excellence in all we do as worshipers regardless.
…which is why hymns are such a good thing for worship. If you are not a great singer, you can still sing the melody and sound good. If you want to sing something other than melody, you can move to another part (made easier if there’s printed music notation). Good hymns have been crafted to facilitate everyone participating, at all skill levels.
You might also want to include the fact that this generation of young people are the most disconnected from religion of any generation, myself being one of them. The social issues that young people today are generally OK with like gay marriage are preached negatively about by religion so often that young people have stopped listening to it. I am an atheist, but if you want young people back in the church doors and singing, you’re gonna have to change what is preached from the pulpit, not how you sing.
Dude, it’s like man, this entity created the universe and set up guidelines for us to have the best life possible in a fallen world, but the real benefit is having to spend eternity with Him. Changing cultural norms does not change those guidelines. Watering down the truth does not make the truth more attractive. Believing in Jesus is counter cultural. Be a repel and believe in the One that created everything. God tells us that a truthful view of the universe makes His existence clearly evident.
This coversation on this thread is sickening. While people are struggling in life looking for answers for their lives you are arguing and debating about what kind of music is right, personally I don’t think anyone should stand before any congregation if they are not called by God to preach or sing. If you can’t make it in the secular music business then stop coming into the churches and using it as your “stage”.
This whole thing is so so sad and ridiculous and its straight from the enemy Satan and those involved in it are going to reap what they have sown by hinduring people to find Christ. People are hurting and without Christ so please stop this selfishness and get out of Gods way!!!
There are tons of young people in churches. There not in every church but are only in the ones that have something to offer them. The church is like a hospital and people of all ages go and are healed in a spiritual manner. Singing to God is just a byproduct of that healing. For me I was touched as a young man by the heart of a congregation that all came together and sang without worrying if how they sounded. It was a beautiful thing and the heart of that type of ministry will touch hearts of all ages if they have allowed their own heart to be softened enough.
That would be like saying, “I would join the NRA if they stop supporting the 2nd amendment.”
Why assume participatory and professionalism are mutually exclusive? Is the author saying he feels he can only sing if the music sucks? Professionalism isn’t the problem it is a potential of pride that tries to perform for people instead of for God. Knowing the difference often requires that a congregation know the hearts of the worship team/musicians which usually isn’t discerned in absence of having a relationship with them.
One person’s unfamiliarity of music is another’s rut. In other words, to one person, they feel that they cant sing the music if there is too much new music but to another they see this as keeping things fresh. If there is a right or wrong here, the Scriptures DO say sing a NEW song unto the Lord, not an OLD one.
Music volume: some people won’t sing unless their voices are NOT heard for the very reasons mentioned in this article. They are NOT professionals and do NOT want their voices heard. As for the feeling of them adding to the sound, that is not the point. The point is to sing to God not be heard by the person next to you. If you aren’t singing because your voice isn’t being heard, that is your loss. Worship music is an opportunity to express our love to God not to sing for each other.
I do agree about the spectator setup and think this can be minimized by NOT incorporating spot lights, video close-ups and the like, however the alternative is to have NO ONE lead which would be chaos. There has to be a point that we as a congregation are responsible to allow a person to lead without cynically assuming that they must be showmen wanting the spotlight.
Finally, I’ll just say that contemporary worship music isn’t for everyone. But just as it would be crazy to walk into a Mexican restaurant and complain about the food being spicy or into a Chinese restaurant and complain about them serving rice, if CCM worship isn’t for you, go to a church with a different style of worship music. And at THAT church, you can say what I’m saying to the complainers there.
I disagree with you Mitch….Here in Indiana Choral singing has more participants than most sports…Our granddaughter’s choir was at state finals…there were over 1700 in the choirs and state finals….25 of the 48 songs sang…and I heard more about scriptures in the songs than I hear at most churches……our churches have become like the world bottom line
All types of Christian music are great but my personal favorite is a capella. Growing up in the Church of Christ, I found that you don’t have to sight read music to learn to sing in harmony. Later on in my childhood I did join the school band. Our excellent instructor in high school made us sing our parts. It made a noticeable difference in how we stayed in tune as a large group. Our ears were also attuned to not only our own parts but to the parts around us..
Keith Lancaster has done some awesome work to help train worship leaders and whole groups in the art of congregational singing. People learn by having the sheet music but also having the vocal parts sung in separate tracks on a CD. It’s a great system!
try singing facing the backdrop or the powerpoint presentation of the lyrics so that the congregation will feel they are part of the worship team. In this way, the danger of grand starring can be avoided.
That is a good point . I remember in public school when I was a kid ” I am 60″ we use to sing all together at assemblies . Songs like Lemon Tree, Knapsack on my back , songs I guess popular at that time .
Mitch our choir is very large in comparison to most 400 members and yet I see the same thing happening at our church.We have choir for young and small Big and old I agree with Thom We Need to Look to God and not our worship leader, This will lead to it being more personal.
We spent many years singing with our very full and accomplished worship band. I was for a time part of the vocals in the band. I loved every minute being a part of it all.
Most of the songs were written by us, and we sang many songs written by many of the older songwriters, such as, Noel Richards, Wayne Drain, ect. I love a lot of the modern bands and singers too.
Our aim was always to bring The Holy Spirit and the prophetic into our worship. It still is. Looking back i was rather oblivious to the Us and Them things happening from Congregation to Band, and visa versa, simply because i loved to worship God, and was , never any different, either in congregation or at the front in the band.
On retrospect now, i can see the difficulties the leadership faced, trying to find that balance of, encouraging participation with congregation.
Over the years as the dynamics changed, and the Lord began to show us the need, i believe, for more intimate worship, The instruments and amps became fewer, and the platform became easier for others to be led more into singing and participation.
I think this is all trial and error, as we all try to seek what God wants us to do.
Dont get me wrong, I was a 17 year old ” play it as loud as you can ! ” girl, who has been there done that ect, But times change, and now as a very young at heart 60 year old, ” too loud! i cant hear the words” comes to mind 🙂 there has to be a balance.
Coming together with church members and chatting about our thoughts and feelings may help, also praying that the Holy Spirit will lead us all to the place he wants us in as a church. For some it may be a time for Loud,or opposite, but whatever it is, be open with one another, God is always challenging us all, We are together because of Him, . Pray for your leadership and worship leaders, that they may always be sensitive to his leading..
I am a classically trained Soprano. I sing some pretty high-brow, complex, deeply theological Sacred stuff brought to you from the pen of people like JS Bach, Mozart, Brahms, Handel and the like in a semi-professional vocal ensemble. I also like to sing on a mixed contemporary/traditional worship team at my church.
I hate loud, trite, repetitive, show-off style “hey, aren’t I cool— I play an electric guitar at my church loud enough to deafen you” style of “Christian” music. What’s worse is the 22 year old barefoot, ratty jeaned kid from the local ultra-Christian college who’s majoring in “worship”, grinding his voice, trying to think of something super poignant to say that will just blow everyone’s minds so all they can do is scream, “Jesus!” with their hands lifted in the air like they’re waiting to be beamed up. And we’re going repeat the last line 50 times until you are exhausted and sick of it! I would enjoy it if it seemed even remotely genuine, but more often than not, it’s just an outward display of piety, and that same kid will just as soon cut you off getting out of the parking lot—because he is immature. Now having said that, I often attended worship with my young adult children at the VERY CONTEMPORARY Mars Hill (save all your comments about Mark Driscoll) AND I LOVED IT. Some of the worship bands were better and/or more sensitive than others, but they were all VERY COMMITTED to singing hymns, and I was really blessed by it. It was still loud and I had to adjust to that, but the praise flowed out of me with ease!
But mostly I worship in a church that uses a blend of contemporary praise songs, hymns, re-arranged and contemporized hymns, and several different worship “teams” who rotate weekly in leading the worship service. Our sound techs are sensitive to the volume so that the congregation of worshippers (did you get that? “Congregation of Worshippers”?) can join in and we all worship communally. The reason people aren’t worshipping anymore is because so many churches mis-understand who’s who. Let’s go over it. The people in the pews are called “the congregation of worshippers”, because that is what they are supposed to do. The musicians on the stage aren’t supposed to be a mega-cool band, there to perform an obligatory concert the congregation is obligated to sit thru. The musicians are really supposed to be “worship facilitators”. Yes, that’s right. They aren’t supposed to be showcasing themselves. They are supposed to be facilitating and engaging the Congregation in communal worship. Well—then who is the AUDIENCE?! Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That is the audience—just HIM–our Triune God. Now get over yourselves and everyone do your jobs! Worship teams—lead HUMBLY, yearning to serve the tired, battle weary people in the pews who have come out of the battle trenches of trying to serve Christ in a most ungodly and wicked world. TAKE CARE OF THEM! Worship is the VERY LEAST about the worship leader—they should be the meekest people you will ever meet! Then God is pleased, and everyone goes away encouraged.
With many discussions about music in the church lately, I have to ask these questions: If the music leader and musicians were lousy, would people be more likely to sing, or would they criticize them? If, in the preaching part of the worship, someone who has not studied the Word and was unprepared to speak brought the message, what would be the response of the people? Who is responsible for an individual’s worship? I feel a blog post coming soon – I need to get to writing.
Hi. So I see many many negative responses to JD’s comment. While there are aspects of his comment that are less than ideal – there is something in what he is saying.
It is a very touchy and complicated issue… it appears that the seniors/baby boomers of this current generation are very stuck on hymns and have incredible trouble keeping up with the changes that have occurred over the last 20 years in particular in the music industry.
This goes so much deeper than just preference or the ridiculous argument of pleasing all the people, etc…
This is a generational psychology. The older generation stick to what they know. They weren’t raised with Youtube, or computers for that matter. They very rarely have play lists or keep up with the new songs that musicians and artists are moved to compose from the Holy Spirit today.
They are digging in. The younger generations (40 and younger give or take) are more able to come into the present and embrace the Spirit filled hymns of today. We can have both – but this war between old and modern is killing the whole point of singing our praises to God.
It’s incredibly frustrating.
The Bible says that the older generations are suppose to encourage and build into the younger. So far the Older generations are doing nothing of the sort. Mostly sitting arms crossed in a contemporary service angry that they can’t have their beloved hymns that are the only true form of worship. Digging in. Creating divide.
The older saints should know better! I am 43 and was raised in a very traditional church. But I am also a worshipper of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! And it’s 2015!!!! Yes – some of those older hymns are brilliant and we can sing the truths with confidence… but the work of the Holy Spirit in inspiring Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual Songs did not suddenly stop in 1945… forever sealing the vault on new worship.
Judas Priest people! Why are we not heading the words of Paul where he encourages us to be in Unity with one another as much as possible. There is so much division being fostered in the church today… and the older saints in Christ are not leading the way in unity, but rather part of the problem.
How can we all come together?
“For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,…”
We are one. We are all on the same side.
What is killing the worship is the same 2 songs being sung, over and over, almost like a broken record and you know how that goes( broken record). It feel like you are walking into a soap opera, still at the same place you left it at a few years ago. Why should there be a war, we have young and old in the congregations, sing some old hymns, sing some new ones, have some solos, some duets, let different people lead the worship, let them ask the Holy Spirit to direct which songs to sing. When choosing songs we need to choose them with evangelism, ministry in mind and adoration to the most high. It is not just to fill a gap until the message, but should minister to the individuals. Look at Saul for instant , when David played for him. Music is powerful do not underestimate it.
The new music is hard to memorize. Most people must have the words or they need to be songs they can pick up and remember. I also have a hard time with much of the music. It is hard to know how it is going to move–up or down etc. The earlier songs it seemed natural to know this. Sometimes the words just are not what my heart is singing at the time. Not much depth to the song.
Praise songs do a good jpb praising and Hymns helps us know why we are praising…Why can’t we have both. Jd and many worship leaders shy away from Hymns because they are “Old fashion.”
YES; BUT THERE IS ANOTHER FACTOR TO CONSIDER. IT IS BOTH AGE LIMIT ; CHURCHES HAVE BEEN UNWILLING TO CHANGE WITH THE SOCIETY. THE OLD DON’T NO CHORUS OF THIS GENERATION AND THE NOW GENERATION DON’T SEE THE MESSAGE IN THE OLDER SONG; IT IS A STAND OFF. WHY CAN’T THE MUSIC DIRECTOR HAVE A VARIETY OF BOTH STYLES OF SONGS?
If you are in a church that worships – you worship – whether in silence or singing or prayer or listening or response. If you are in a church that entertains, then you spectate. Music is just the medium – worship is an attitude that comes from within and can be fostered by the fellowship and the leadership. Sing Christ Tomlin’s “Heart of Worship” “The Heart Of Worship”
When the music fades
All is stripped away
And I simply come
Longing just to bring
Something that’s of worth
That will bless Your heart
I’ll bring You more than a song
For a song in itself
Is not what You have required
You search much deeper within
Through the way things appear
You’re looking into my heart
I’m coming back to the heart of worship
And it’s all about You,
It’s all about You, Jesus
I’m sorry, Lord, for the thing I’ve made it
When it’s all about You,
It’s all about You, Jesus
Amen…..good article
I noticed, many years ago, while visiting a church, that most people don’t worship during worship. At first I thought is was because there was no song book or overhead projection of the words (because the pastor didn’t like overheads), but after attending a few times I just thought people there didn’t sing. Then I began to pay attention to it in other churches. It seemed, the better the worship band, the less people actually worshiped. Finally at one mega-church, with a professional-style band, I hardly noticed any worship at all. Of course, all eyes were on the singers on the worship team, like at a Broadway show. I was actually expecting them to start dancing in synch.
We’re not supposed to be singing WITH other people, were supposed to be singing unto the Lord. And I don’t think He cares how we sound to other people. Our true worship is beautiful music to Him.
Alex & James. Have appreciated your comments. And yes…we are probably getting into a much deeper theology than just music in the church. But it is a timely and serious discussion. It brings to mind the verse…”many are called, but few are chosen.”
We are saved by grace through faith. Hallelujah…we have made the Kingdom! Now, there are rules to the Kingdom set forth by Yahweh. This is where the Church is falling short. Yeshua died on the cross to cover the penalty for all my sin, WHICH IS DEATH. I can find no place in Scripture where The Torah, and all it entails, was nailed to the cross. The changes the cross brought forth were not regarding the Torah, but were Covenant changes…a better sacrifice, a better priesthood, a better temple. The Torah establishes teaching and instructions for daily living as part of the Kingdom. And these were established from the beginning of time. Those who follow it will be blessed! No, I am not Jewish or Seventh Day Adventist. I am a Child of the God of Israel.
Having said all of this!…James…to follow up. Scripture does not use the Greco-Roman calendar, where yes, all the days of the week and months have pagan names. In Scripture the only day that is named is the Sabbath. Then comes the 1st day of the week (Sunday), the 2nd day of the week (Monday), etc. And God’s months are not pagan entities. His New Year is Aviv or Nissan, which is March-April, time of Passover. I mention this because in 2016, Easter is on March 27th, but Passover begins sundown on April 22nd. We know that Yeshua’s crucifixion relates to Passover. How many churches will be celebrating the death and resurrection of Yeshua around April 22nd? Or will they prefer to celebrate the pagan holiday of Easte, which is almost a month earlier than Passover. Something to think about.
Regarding Colossians 2:16. Nowhere in Scripture can I find Paul, or any of the disciples, forsaking the Torah. Which brings me to the fact maybe we have misunderstood Paul’s meaning of this verse. The chapters before and after may give more context. To quote verse 16, “Therefore no “one” must be continually judging you by food and by drink or in part of a feast or new moon or Sabbaths;” The word”one” is interesting. Who is it that is continually judging the new born again converts coming out of their pagan ways? Quite possibly Judaism of the day…Pharisees and Sadducees. Another interesting question…Have keeping the commandments of God (Torah) ever been contrary to us?
If anyone should happen to read this post and asks… what has all this got to do with music in the church?… might I say…everything. All Protestant denominations came out of the Roman Catholic Church. Martin Luther should have nailed a few more things to that door. Today’s Church is full of paganism and traditions of men, and we seem to be oblivious. You can ask the question…what difference does it make when we do what, and how we do it, as long as we love Jesus. Think it makes a difference to Almighty Sovereign Yahweh, who requests of His People to follow His Ways. He is not a God of confusion. The over 1000 comments on music in the church alone, shows diversity and confusion, second to none.
I like that post. Regardless of position that was very well thought out and a very educated response. Finally
Mitch, I attend a church where we have a very strong music program. We have children’s choirs that start at the little ones who are just walking all the way to the Sanctuary choir. We have an orchestra and several handbell choirs.
I am sad about the lack of music taught in our schools, today. I am just happy that I have found a place where there folks who want to sing!
I totally agree. Why don’t we have printed music at least. I have fond that when overhead projected lyrics weren’t available, and we printed the lyrics, people sang more.
When I was a child, the churches had preschool choir, children’s choir, and youth choir. By the time one was an adult, one could read music, match pitch, harmonize, etc. Worship leaders (music ministers) have neglected this in recent times. No wonder people don’t sing!
Yes, and a few factors as well: a) the cut back in funding of music and choral education in public schools; b) the reduction in regular attendance at churches – many people only go to church once a month or less; c) the dramatic reduction in kids being involved in children’s choirs in church; d) the decrease in people going out Christmas caroling; e) and the rise of paying people to sing for us in public — we pay performers to sing the national anthem at ball parks *for* us, and we have the waitstaff at restaurants sing Happy Birthday *for* us.
church culture and upbringing. I noticed here in the Phils that in the provinces especially in remote areas most people joined the singing and they love to sing. Also I noticed that in the urban settings with contemporary songs the young people are excited to sing. There are many reasons why people dont join the singing but there are also churches around the world who loves to sing. God bless you all.
I think the more precise question to ask is, Why most corporate worship today are simply going through the motions of worship only? Let’s look from John 4:23-24. Are we the kind of worshipers the Father seeks?
In another words, God is concern with our attitude of worship and our personality! Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble”. (A bad attitude is like a flat tire. Unless you change it, you can’t go anywhere.). When God accepts our worship, He promised to manifest His presence to us. Worship leaders has great responsibility in inviting the congregation to join them in worshiping God in the beauty of His Holiness. Their position is worship leaders, not song leaders. Having ability to sing well or talented in some musical instruments are secondary. They must be first worshipers that God seeks only then they will be able to lead others with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. As the saying goes, ‘A leader is the one who know the way, goes the way, an shows the way’. However, they must take heed that worship leading should never become a performance that draw attention to themselves. Corporate worship is all about connecting with our Creator, honoring Him with our song of praise and worship and entering into His presence. Another important aspect of worship leading is to encourage believers to worship God beyond the Sunday service, so that even in their own homes these songs continued to echo in their soul and sung on their lips. So therefore, song selection is really important. An anointed worship leader knows how to choose songs that will help believers to worship the Almighty God in the beauty of His Holiness and wait upon Him. This involves both the music and the lyrics. Songs that are based on Biblical truth and should align theologically with our beliefs, and the music that accompanies should help create an atmosphere that encourages worship.
rosalyn loo, I fully agree with you. But the problem / issues with worship concepts / concerts in mega churches is heresies, secular, abominations, defilement and corruption.
I’m just over there worried about my coffee breath! Lol
Like what Mitch said. I’m a music teacher and know what’s up in the schools. Another thing… many times the worship leader is a HIGH tenor. So a lot of the guys out there that sing baritone-bass have no way to keep up. Clarification- my voice is the one you hear- the dude with the furry coat, helmet with horns, singing “And I need cash nowwwwwwwww!”
Great point
I totally agree! As a voice teacher I honestly believe that much of this stems from the lack of quality choral programs in our schools. Certifications in most states have changed I. The past 20 years. Now a choral program might actually be led by an instrumentalist. That would be like hiring a mathematician to teach biology. On paper it looks good to have one music teacher lead both your band and choir program. It saves money, BUT it doesn’t work. People are not learning the fundamentals of singing, singing in a group, or basic sight reading.
We host both a contemporary and traditional service. Our contemporary service actually contains more interactive singing while in the traditional service the congregants are less interactive.
I haven’t given up singing, and thankfully am in a church where the point of corporate participative worship has not been lost, but I do agree this a huge issue in the worldwide church today. Thank you for sharing.
I would like your opinions on what a caring church can do to change this. I know by experience in leading worship that it is not just song choice or volume because we have experimented with both of these,
Pastor Don, a few suggestions:
Optics. Be careful and intentional about what people see when they sing. Consider putting the musicians out of sight.
Invite people from the pews to come forward and sing, unamplified.
Looking at the backs of people’s heads discourages participation. Re-arrange seating to create an in-the-round arrangement so the congregation sees and senses one another. It’s the singing-around-the-campfire effect.
Even in contemporary services, use more grand old hymns that are well-known and singable.
Explain to your people that you’re transitioning from a passive concert setting to congregational participation. Challenge them to fill the room with their praises.
Don’t refer to the singalong time as the defined “worship time.” Worship is so much more than tunes.
I’d add this – sing those grand hymns Acapella!!!! Without instruments! There’s nothing like the sound of a congregation singing without the aid of instruments. I have no problems with instruments in service – just musicians that believe the control the service ;). You may have to bring back the hymnals – because so few people know the words now.
Mr. Shultz, I think you’ve really captured this. In my opinion, anytime the “production” focuses on the performers in a worship setting, there is a grave danger of “worshipping the created instead of the Creator”…the more people can take THEMSELVES out of an offering of song, the more it is a TRUE offering. I’ve grown VERY distasteful of what some call, and I view as, “contemporary” praise songs as a result of seeing with my own eyes the created either glorifying themselves, or being glorified, to the detriment of glorifying the Creator. I know that the following is likely mostly a matter of my personal tastes, but it seems to me that “simpler is better” for the purposes of glorifying the Creator.
Careful with the seating arrangement – while you improve things visually you may shoot yourself in the foot acoustically. We occasionally alter the seating arrangement at my church, and I’ve found that the in-the-round arrangement – as much as it benefits us in other ways – kills the singing, as people can’t hear others as well.
We do have atrocious acoustics, though (heavily padded chairs – purchased even as I complained loudly about the consequences); better acoustics would likely make this less of a problem.
Personally, I love the newer songs, but still enjoy some of the old hymns. I don’t think I’d enjoy the music as much if it were all hymns since a lot of the older ones don’t really speak to me with the old language. “Bring forth the royal diadem, and crown Him Lord of all. Let highborn seraphs tune the lyre, and as they tune it, fall” What? l need a translator.
Hi sir, you have certainly good suggestions. we have actually placed our worship leaders on the side so people only see the lyrics of the songs. however, i don’t think singing old hymns is the only solution so people could be familiar w/ the songs. since we have monthly themes, we have a month to learn new songs… new songs: aren’t we suppose to sing new songs too?
These are great suggestions. May I add that one of the most important things that helped us was the transforming of the Word of God. Teaching people (leaders and congregation) about the true meaning of worship helps people break away from rockstar and the starers mentalities. We can change the environment, the look and feel, the music choices, etc… but if God doesn’t change people’s heart and mind about what worship truly is then it doesn’t matter what we do. If the traditional worship worked then there wouldn’t be a reason for people feeling a need to go a more contemporary. Though there was that “need” it did not really resolve the worship issue in the first place. We need to get people to understand about the creator of worship, why we worship, how we worship, and what should we expect in worship. If there’s no transformation that’s taking place in worship then we might have been worshipping for the wrong reason. Of course the goal is not transformation – it’s to worship God – but transformation is a by-product of people truly seeing and seeking God in worship.
A technique with which we’ve had success is to make the songs “our own.” Let the worship team put their own spin on the songs instead of trying to sound like the original artist’s recording. I believe that God blesses every congregation with their own “voice” that speaks to that congregation. Encourage the worship team to seek God’s direction and let the Spirit flow during rehearsals. See what happens. I’ve seen congregations respond in amazing ways when they hear a known song done in a unique way by their worship team.
If your team already does songs their own way, still mix up the arrangements. I’ve been to churches where the pianist starts every song and the songs all sound pretty much the same (same feel, timing, transitions). Another well-known church used to have the same musician play every solo or meditative section on the same instrument (Kenny G style) for nearly every song–week after week. It got to the point where the congregation tuned him out. Mix it up.
One more suggestion–If possible, don’t let the senior pastor be the worship leader. He should be focused on his main job. If he tries to be the lead pastor and the worship leader, one or the other will suffer.
Outstanding. And the hymnals also help folks learn to note read in some fashion — certainly helped me as a boy. There are just many practical realities here that get ignored wholesale because of the dominant trend and, no doubt, some folks like me who have struggled with keeping a good spirit about it. And for the record I am a long time church musician.
Thom – I believe these are great suggestions! I wish you had put them in the article that is going viral.
As a sound man for churches for over 30 years, I have seen it all when it comes to “Worship Music”. The performers who feel that their style will be the best thing ever seen on the church stage. The songwriters who know that this will lead to a national tour of worship evangelism. The scholar who wants to create a mood to lead people into the message.
All of these have their place. However, it’s not always a good idea to have that place be the pulpit of a church.
I have always tried to teach the musicians I’ve worked with, that it’s the words that need to be heard, not the screaming guitar solo or the 2 minute intro.
Worship is meant to be just that. Worship. Let’s open our hearts, open our mouths and sing praises to our Lord and not be consumed by the performance of it all. Most churches have ditched the Hymnal in favor of projected words on the screen. Those hymnals have some the most incredible stories in them that offer up a congregational outpouring of emotion.
So let’s throw back our heads and not worry about what the person next to us thinks. We’re showing love for our Lord, and we want Him to hear it!
Another suggestion, turn the lights back on and quit making it a Rock Concert…pastors start teaching Biblical corporate worship and quit letting a multi-million dollar worship industry market to us what we shoul be doing…musicians step up and start being servants instead of stars…worship leaders start assessing wheather or not your congregations are worshiping…you keep giving them food (music) they can’t eat and water they can’t drink…that is not pastoring, it is performing…we are no longer celebrating The Lord… We are celebrating a method…worship leaders aren’t writing songs to honor God anymore, they are writing songs to further their career.
We have the most innovative, high tech, cutting edge, contemporary, music in the history of the Church…and our congregations have stopped worshipping…maybe, just maybe we are missing something? Our worship doesn’t need throw out our culture and creative expression…our hearts need to turn back to God…
I’m a little concerned about Dianne’s comment about “enjoying” the music, which I think is the reason for the decline in the more traditional congregations. Worship is not there for enjoyment or entertainment. It’s to give glory and praise to God and to receive the Word and sacraments. That said, if one is spiritually uplifted and happens to enjoy the music too, great! But that is not the reason we sing in church. Hymns and songs supplement the spoken word, as should the choir anthems. They shouldn’t just be random choices with empty irrelevant phrases. Our church is more traditional, with the organ being the primary instrument for worship. We have a choir. The congregation enthusiastically sings. As the organist and music director, my choices for music highlight and support the theme and readings of the day. And yes, we put in contemporary songs that fit just like the hymns do. But we worship in a church, not a theatre. Our new building will not represent a concert hall. And the worship will continue to be authentic and with good quality.
I feel sorry for most of your respondents. In response, maybe they should think about why they are supposed to worship. One definition is Worth-ship (He is worthy). First, it is for an audience of one, God. This is not entertainment time, no matter what the worship leader is doing we can still focus our heart on Jesus and worship. Second, if true worship is not part of your service, maybe you should find a place where it is. Word and worship go hand in hand. If the worship is not real maybe the whole service isn’t truly focused on God. Maybe it is time to find a place that is truly pursuing God and His presence. Finally, we are responsible for our relationship with God. If we are blaming others for our lack, we have no one to blame but ourselves. When we stand before God will we be able point the finger at others and blame them for our lack of worship? I think it will ring hollow, daddy will not let us get away with it.
Michael J. I don’t understand how a worship team doing their own thing or making a song ‘their own’ would encourage anyone to sing along. Seems that would be right the opposite. If you make it your own then absolutely nobody will be able to sing along except the privileged few that have practiced for hours at being professional while standing up on the stage, wearing coordinating outfits and ‘performing’ for the silent, confused crowd. The words performance and worship are not even on the same page in the dictionary much less anywhere else. A performance brings glory to man. True worship brings glory to God.
An old preacher said it best not too long ago while filling the pulpit at our church. He said, “Contemporary music likes to talk about what I can do or what I am doing for God (I will worship. I will praise Him. I will sing….I, I, I ) but the hymns tell what a great, merciful God did and is still doing for a poor excuse of a human being like me.”
I completely agree. Another tool that worked, which is an alternate to not having the choir/singers visible, is to bring them off the stage and physically on the same level with the congregation. It’s more inclusive and direct eye contact can encourage some who aren’t as comfortable singing to really feel invited and included.
we have the lyrics on a projector behind the musicians so that those who know the melody don’t have to stare at the hymnals for words. It helps people sing out instead of down which gives the effect of more voices, which in turn, makes others want to join in.
Thank you so much for posting this. This is great information and hopefully worship leaders can use this to improve music service.
I couldn’t disagree with this blog more as it seems very much biased against what some refer to as ‘contemporary worship’. I grew up in a very ‘traditional’ church where 95% of the songs we sang were hymns. People did not sing back then either for the exact opposite reasons this blog cites. The music was too soft, half the congregation couldn’t understand the lyrics (written in old english!), it was the same old songs over and over again, it was very unprofessional. I could’ve just as easily written a very similar blog biased towards the other viewpoint. The real reason people don’t sing has less to do with reasons pointed to in this blog and more to do with the lack of thankfulness, the disposition of the heart and willingness to worship.
Hide the musicians??!! Try that with the preacher and see how well it works. Isn’t everything we do worship? So this should apply to all, right?
Truth is people choose NOT to worship regardless of their setting. Stop blaming their attitudes on the artists! Everyone is responsible for their own actions!
I completely disagree with this. I attend a church with over 5000 members and EVERY Sunday the majority sings along and actively participates. I’ve also visited several area churches and have found the same thing. Putting the musicians out of sight is a terrible idea! Psalms 150:4 clearly says to “praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe.” Why would you hide people who are doing just that. And there is NOTHING wrong with having professionalism in your preparation for worship service. It ensures that we are offering our best praise and not just some after thought. As for music choice, if you want to stay in the past and never reach new souls, which is the great commission and our job as Christians, then by all means stay in the dark ages and only sing hymns. However if you’d like to engage your youth, young families, AND older congregants then you definitely need a diverse mix of music. And it takes talent and knowledge in music to lead a team to achieve that. So while you may take issue with the so called “rockstar” worship leaders, but they are doing their best to usher a myriad of people into the presence of God. And if there are people who don’t want to participate or will only engage in worship if it’s just the right song then they need to develop their own spiritual maturity. We should worship in good times and bad, as well as when you like the song list or not.
Thom,
I appreciate your concern, and I’m sure that many of the things you mention are valid points, including the reality that some worship leaders & bands appear far more concerned about giving a “Christian” performance than leading people into the presence of God. But as a 50 year old pastor/son of a Southern Baptist minister of music, I wonder: if the “grand ol’ hymns” are the answer, wouldn’t they be the answer for everyone?
Much of the shortcomings in the early days of the modern missionary movement was rooted in the attempt to conform other cultures to western civilization’s culture as part of “doing church” or even “being Christian”. When we contextualize the Gospel (without changing it, of course), we follow the example of Jesus and Paul, and find people far less “put off” by the “traditions of men”.
Since we now live in a “post-Christian” America, to suggest that our worrship issues are based on forsaking the old hymns is like saying that the reason residents of an unreached people group on an island somewhere in Oceania do not freely worship is because of the lack of the grand ol’ hymns. Neither one of them has ever heard of them, so there’s no “long lost” songs to which to return, and while the “singability” factor is subjective and could vary from song to song, I have found over the years that the hardest songs to play are hymns, which means they are more poorly played, potentially causing distractions that could keep even more people from just singing their hearts out.
People need songs that speak to their “cultural ears” just as we translate Scripture into many languages because people need to hear it in their “heart language”. While in some places that may mean the grand ol’ hymns, for many they might as well be sung in Aramaic. Not necessarily because the lyrics are bad, but because the verbage and stylre are unknown.
All that being said, our church tries to sing at least one hymn each weekend, but they’re often played in a more culturally relevant style so that the valuable, doctrinal truths are not lost in a music style that is indecipherable to many post-modern ears. But that’s us… and lest I seem to be too negative, let me echo the comments of others here in saying: it’s a heart issue. Worship leaders: teach your people to enter into the presence of God with THEIR singing. People: Give praise & thanksgiving to the only One Who is worthy, whatever style of music may be used in your congregation.
Won’t it be great when we arrive in the presence of The Lord and sing the music of heaven? Then we’ll ALL be singing together! 😉
Good answer Thom! I was in an E-Free church for 10 years (high school and afterwards) that sang out of the hymn book every Sunday. Everyone sang harmony and loud and joyfully. We would sometimes intersperse choruses in evening or less formal get togethers, but always there was the glorious hymns. That was during the hippy generation years. No one tried to bring in the popular music at the time! I was in high school and soaked in the beautiful hymns!
Singing is important as others have pointed out as Ephesians 5 says: “…be filled with the Holy Spirit, singing songs, hymns and spiritual songs, making melody in our hearts to the LORD…”
Singing comes from being filled with the Holy Spirit! A lot of the Psalms are songs of David!
Our churches are not supposed to be places of entertainment, or worldly excitement. They don’t have to be a big draw like a rock band or something. Satan loves noise and disorder! We are to do all things decently and in order! Loud blaring noise is neither…! The Church is where believers gather to worship and learn. Non-believers should be welcomed in, but our evangelism should be us going out and making disciples, then bringing them back into the church to worship and learn. We shouldn’t sit there passively Sunday after Sunday and expect to make some grand worldly entertainment scheme that is going to draw people in.
We do not have to become like the world to draw people in. God’s word will not return unto Him void. He knows how to draw people to Himself! There is the broad road, and the narrow road. We need to stay on the straight and narrow, and love God, and worship Him with music that honors HIM, and not us.
What an incredible myopic view you have. This self assured view reflects the kind of attitude born out of an “I know what’s best for you because I know what I’m sure is the right way because I’m older and wiser.” Let me mention that although you secretly believe your entitled to worship on your terms …its completely not about you. It’s not about the holy huddles of the traditional church. The world that is hurting an looking for something real sees right through the judgmental attitude of much the traditional churches. If you don’t look like me and act like me I’m not comfortable with you, I cannot relate to you nor do I want wish to. Reaching the lost. Meeting people where they are is what matters in the kingdom of Christ. Putting God and his glorification through worship in a selfishly defined box is another way of putting limits on God. It’s not about inward focus. What makes you so sure you know what’s best? I challenge you to look at the fruit produced! That’s the best evidence of God working. Not whether you have a hymnal in your hand.
When I was a young person hymns were the predominant style of music sung in churches. I was in the Methodist church but also had many, many friends that were Baptists. Both of these denominations had hymnals that were printed in the printing houses of the denominations. One of the things that has concerned me since the “praise” music became popular in churches is that much of the praise music comes straight from record companies. (Not all, some might be written by a church member), but much of it is what they have heard on the radio.
Back when people bought CD’s I was concerned by hearing a praise song on the radio and then the church start using it in services, that the church had inadvertently become a marketing device of the record companies. (The record companies (EMI, which has Sparrow as a division) are for profit companies not “missions oriented”. Since the sale of CD’s has plummeted, this is probably not the problem it once was. I only bring it up to show how we have to be careful how we conduct our business.
People, generally speaking, will like the kind of music was popular when the were young. That is shown in the popular realm and is why record companies put out new acts and also why they play the “oldies” for boomers.
Everyone knows what they like but I think it’s a nice experiment to try to worship with music that’s not in our “comfort zone”. Some examples are plainchant (some refer to as “Gregorian chant”. Music of the Baroque period such as J.S. Bach. There is SO much music that has been written which glorifies God and when all we listen to is music that we are comfortable with, we miss out on much.
Some simple things that can be done relatively cheaply.
1. Commit to one Sunday a month with no stage lights, no amplification, no massive band. Just basic slides displayed with lyrics only (no background animations, just white text on a black background). The worship leader is the only one with a mic and that is turned up just loud enough so people can hear him/her and get the congregation started.
2. On that Sunday, sing the regular songs and if you’re out of the habit, throw in a couple hymns. Worship time should be different from the playlist of your average contemporary Christian radio station and in far too many churches it isn’t. Those of us who *gasp* don’t listen to wall to wall contemporary Christian music (largely because it has become the same bland soulless stuff pop music is) don’t necessarily like coming to church and having to learn new songs every week.
3. Seek to reinstate a congregational choir. Nothing bugs me more than the trend toward professional singers/musicians (my church actually hired a recording artist as the worship pastor). Doesn’t matter if they’re not any good. Doesn’t matter if they sing off key. Doesn’t matter if they stand there like singing statues. What matters is that they are the same people that rub shoulders with the rest of the congregation. What matters is that they’re genuine about their worship (which, incidentally, is all God cares about).
4. Ultimately remember, that worship isn’t about creating an experience, that is what concerts are for. Worship is about pouring your heart out to God for all the amazing things He has done. It isn’t about song selection, volume, quality, or anything else. The most genuine worship I’ve ever heard in my life was from a new believer who couldn’t carry a tune in a bushel basket. Seek to instill in the congregation a sense of what worship time is really for. Hint: it isn’t entertainment.
thank you for putting my ideas on “paper”
If you use slides., the tune should be there as well. Lyrics alone are worthless, if you have no idea what the melody is. Even “non-readers” of music, do follow music. As a choir director, organist/pianist and instrumentalist (violin, viola) I have ample experience with people who think that they do not read music. They read more than you might think.
There are at least 500 years of written music devoted to God. We don’t have to hit every one of those years, but there is such a wealth of hymns of praise and worship that have lasted to the present day, because they are of quality, that it is an absolute shame NOT to use them in worship. People sing out more when they have something familiar. Even if they do not know the hymn, if it sounds familiar stylistically, that puts them at ease, and they will sing more confidently.
Adding contemporary songs to the mix is a good thing. Just remember to add that which is of quality (and you and your congregation will know which those are). Turn down (or off) the amplifiers. You do not need to amplify an acoustic instrument in a church. Use the organ as well as the piano for some variety. Add some orchestral instruments to the mix on occasion. Many of your young people play in school bands/orchestras. Some of the adults might like to dust off their horns to play Christmas carols or rousing gospel tunes during the summer.
If you want to explore some “new” music. Try doing it during the offertory, or even as a “special”. Form a choir, even if they only sing once or twice a month at first. There are plenty of good two-part arrangements for small beginning choirs. Encourage the congregation to make a joyful noise! God will hear what is behind that noise in the hearts of his people.
I agree with you completely!
Very well said!!!
Has anyone noticed that all of the “contemporary praise songs” sound like someone put several hundred notes in a hat and drew them out one after another to go with some words and therefore there is absolutely no tune or melody or whatever you want to call it to follow. There is no music on the screen to read to try to follow along, so that is impossible. I grew up singing in the adult choir as a teenager and find myself totally unable to follow the music. The words are wonderful, which is the most important part, but there is no tune to learn. Every song sounds just alike so you would think I could catch on, but I can’t. Therefore, I don’t even try to sing. I’m sure I am not the only one who feels this way, so I think that is a large part of why no one is singing along. I feel deeply that there should be variety of music in every service because of all who worship having a closeness to God from different songs.
About 90% of these “contemporary” songs are repulsive to me. OF course, I am very prejudiced on the side of “Southern Gospel” having sung it for nearly all my life of 73 years. The “modern” ones just do not have the same inspiration as the “Grand Old Gospel” melodies. That’s my position on this and I stand firm on it. GOD BLESS.
I have always said there is just no rhyme or reason to the way most contemporary songs are written. Thanks for saying that here.
I am glad for both of you to have your own personal opinion…
I agree with Patricia, Jerry and Katrina on the views of your musical problems coming up in the congregations. As a trained singer, the words pasted on the screen don’t help me at all and a lot of these songs do not have a solid tune OR repeat themselves so many times, you’re really wondering if you can keep it up.
It’s sad that in my most comfortable way to worship (reading and singing music) I find myself feeling left out or sad that I can’t “READ” the tune right away OR harmonize with it once I do learn it. I feel that in this day and age, a good mixture of music will be the best way to go in a service but also, perhaps a mixture of services could help.
You could have a more Traditional service in the morning (with our beloved Hymns) and a Contemporary service at night. The old tradition of “teaching” music within the Church should also come back for those who have the time to study.
My Father grew up in the ’30’s and they had Music Camp in the summers, Singin’ Saturdays and the occasional Pot Luck Lunches where they spent 2 hours after the meal just calling out hymns, singing and worshiping. Hearing them talk about those times were not only amazing but educational as well. They took the study of Music as serious as their Bible Study so they both would combine to make the most inspirational service.
One can tell, just by reading this blog that Music is a very large part of our worship time and it’s a passionate subject for all to discuss.
A lot of times the song is sung so high that not many people can participate. Bring it down to a level that most people are comfortable with, and more people will participate. Sing songs that people are on the radio and are current instead of the old, boring stuff. Of course the classics are good every now and again, but the old school, high-octave stuff just isn’t what people are comfortable with.
Most of the newer hymnals have lowered the pitch of the hymns for a medium rather than high voice. I am an alto (God made me that way) so I sing the harmony (alto line). Try it even if you don’t read, use your ears and remember that you are only a half step from the right note at any time so just keep moving (Told to me by a jazz pianist friend of mine who was teaching me how to improvise). Angie, try to listen to some of the “old” southern gospel hymns as well as the “classics” and you may find that they are not boring at all. I like both the new rock groups and the “pop” singers that have contributed to the literature. I enjoy some of the newer contemporary Christian music as well, but a lot of it is emphemeral and will disappear after a year or two. The stuff that persists after five years is probably the “good” stuff.
I believe chosen vocal range of the pieces has so so much to do with the problem. For example, many praise and worship tunes were initially ‘performed’ by professional musicians whose ranges are too high for men and too low for women. . To sing with them means worshippers have to jump octaves vocally. It’s difficult and disengaging, and so congregants stop trying.
My solution? Change keys so that men can sing in their own range and women can also. Two octaves is almost always a richer experience for a congregation.
Any response to this?
I think you just nailed it!
There’s no ‘right’ key. Altos often say, and not unfairly so, that nothing is in the right key for them to sing melody, but let me tell you: songs aren’t often in the right key for me as a soprano either. I usually make up harmonies, but I realize that this is a skill that is being lost (partially due to the lack of harmony singing in schools/churches). I would suggest a good mix: each vocal range has some songs pitched well for them.
My church does well at this: songs are never just pitched for one range. Some are easy for me, some aren’t. For those of us who understand worship, it’s not that big of a deal. For those who don’t, well, any aspect of the music can be a big deal.
I agree completely. And I also love to hear how the voices swell with enthusiasm when we sing Amazing Grace or Just As I Am. Beautiful hyms with meaning and melody.
Pastor Don, I’ve been involved with congregational training using Keith Lancaster’s Praise and Harmony series. http://theacappellacompany.com/praiseharmony.html
I have no affiliation with the company but have seen the tools used to help churches learn new songs and sing in harmony. Please check out some of the YouTube videos and see how well the congregations sing together!
You can always ‘change the pace and venue’ as an idea. Some of our local congregations started having a quarterly ‘Praise Singing’ hosted at each of the different locations. There are members of five churches together and different people volunteer to lead songs. Each leader starts the song with a microphone but drifts out and lets the crowd sing. The song leader comes back in gently at times to keep the tempo or help smooth over harder-to-follow parts. We just sing and the sound is AMAZING!
I think something else is at play too and that’s the lack of teaching people get re: worship. I was raised in the Church and my mother taught me about worship and reverence for God. I came along during the time of congregational singing of mostly hymns and gospel songs and I didn’t stop singing when I started attending churches with praise bands, worship teams, worship leaders, near-professional sounding choirs, etc. To this day, I sing out and if the choir is singing a song that’s familiar to me, I sing along. And I’m usual the odd ball since I’m one of the few singing. All people really need to do is open their mouths and sing and set aside the thinking that they’re not as good as those on stage or that they’ll drown them out or whatever else people are thinking. To me, worship is participatory; I’m not there just to watch and listen, although that is a part of worship. But to never sing? What’s the point in standing then? Just to look at other people? You might as well sit down and file your nails ’til they’re through.
I’ll agree with this. I once belonged to a church where the music minister wasn’t just skilled (he had been playing piano since he was 3), he had learned something about letting the Holy Spirit lead in leading worship. Since I’ve moved, I’ve rarely found an equivalent. So, what am I supposed to do, sit there with my armed crossed, grousing that it’s not what I’m used to? No. it’s an opportunity to pour yourself into worship even when the environment isn’t what you consider to be ‘conducive’ to worship, to acknowledge that God is worthy of worship whether the surroundings or the music are to your taste or not.
This ^
Recognizing worship as a response. A response to God anywhere, anytime and anyplace. Worship on Sundays should be a result of our worship during the week. It’s an overflow of our life in Christ, not where we come to ‘worship’ once a week.
Some of my best moments of worship have been walking to work, being in a mosh pit in a metal concert, listening to my favorite non-christian bands just to name a few.
It’s sad that the blame for people not singing in church is being pointed at (for most people) the 20 minutes of singing ONCE a week. The root is much deeper. Only in America do you have so many churches with so many different stylized options. It’s great but at the same time people don’t come across teaching that shows them what worship from the heart really is. That’s where the change happens.
Agreed! I often find that the ones complaining about the current reality are the very ones guilty of not participating.
Be the change!even if it is not your favorite song, lead the way and sing it. If it’s not the instrumentation you prefer, still participate. Through many generations this has been a divisive tool for the church. It’s time to wake up, grow up, and reach a dying generation. You have also got to be relevant. There is a reason why more and more churches are closing their doors. Let’s be the change!
Right you are. Make a Joyful Noise unto the Lord, all ye lands. Enter his courts with praise. Didn’t say it had to be perfect.
Judith Hirsch, your comments have been excellent, and so true. The reason more and more churches are closing their doors is because the world, the flesh, and the devil are in them! God will continue His church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it! If the music/sound is cranked up so loud you can’t hear your own voice, then that is too loud, and worldly! I agreed with everything you and Thom the author of this said!
I also like the idea of different services for different styles. I do not attend services with loud contemporary music either vocal or instrumental. I do like ‘some’ quieter contemporary music that essentially conforms to a modern type of hymn style, but not if it is projected on a screen without showing the chords of the song. And a choir would be so much better than a few American Idol wanna-be’s standing up in front with a microphone out singing everyone……….
I can only tell you what has worked for our church for “singing in the appropriate key”……and it makes a huge difference….really it does! Nothing higher than a high “D” on the top and nothing lower than an “A” on the bottom. The odd time, a song may go higher than a “D”, but not for a sustained amount of time. That range makes it singable for the ‘average’ person. We pay attention to other things as well, but that is our rule of thumb for range.
I wish it wasn’t true but you nailed it! All of these apply to my church! Some do sing but most do not. Is it because we do not fear the LORD and in turn worship him? Many times I think this is a heart issue exasperated by your well thought out list. Thom, have you visited, seen or heard of any good solutions?
Mark, please take a look at my suggestions to Pastor Don, above. I’ve seen these work.
Think for a moment about other public venues where people join together in singing. Can you name any? Around here (mid-Michigan) the only other community space where people are compelled to sing is the local meeting of the Rotary Club or Kiwanis. Both of these are organizations whose membership decline can be illustrated using an inverted L-shaped curve. Whether the style is traditional or contemporary, our worship design is a hold-over from an era when communal singing was a form of entertainment. People didn’t just sing in churches in ages past, but in many communal settings. Clubs and service organizations all had songbooks, schools had fight songs and alma maters that people knew all the words to, people would sing the “Star-Spangled Banner” at the beginning of ballgames and rise to sing “Take Me Out to the Ballgame” during the seventh inning stretch. Communal singing of hymns, gospel music and spiritual songs in worship tapped into mainstream tastes and affinities. These days we are far removed from the time when public singing was a shared experience people looked forward to participating in enough to set aside time to do it. Public singing does not spill over into many venues beyond church sanctuaries and worship centers, and is seen as something at best anachronistic and more often weird by the general populace. Since present-day unchurched and de-churched people don’t seem to value public singing, it causes me to wonder whether religious people are missing the mark by putting so many very expensive eggs in the worship basket and whether winning worship wars over musical style is a victory that will have very little impact for the Kingdom of God.
I agree. Public singing is weird by todays standards. To ask people to stand up and “worship” is jibberish. Which brings me to the second part of this. Worship leaders don’t lead. They are not instructing what the congregation is to do. Leading implies that you would take a group of people and move them through an act of worship. If people don’t know what to do, tell them to “listen to this verse and meditate on this” or “lets all sing the chorus in unison and this is why”. Maybe shape more than just music and encourage people to kneel or to lift their hands or close their eyes. If people aren’t doing anything perhaps it is because they have no idea what they should be doing. Tell them. Teach them.
Thank you for this sensible comment. In the role of ‘worship leader’, I pray to be a channel of the Holy Spirit, asking that my part will enable others in the room to engage more intimately with the Father through the Spirit. So, I do instruct/invite/guide the family at times, seeking to draw us all into a shared meeting with God
Dwayne, the answer is very simple: God’s people sing because God has commanded them to sing. Why would you compare the church – a group of believers, redeemed by the blood of Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit – to a Rotary Club? It’s apples and oranges.
The bottom line is that our singing is an act of obedience to God’s Word (Col 3:16, Eph 5:17-19).
Isaac Watts: “Let those refuse to sing who never knew our God / But children of the heavenly King must speak their joys abroad.”
Yea, I can see God up in heaven now, “You will sing to Me because I command you to, because I am the greatest and I deserve your praise.” And then it’s, “Oh, ok… I really don’t feel like it today but only because God commands me to.” Do you recall the, “They worship Me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.”? Those people were following all Gods commands but I don’t think that is what God is focused on. I think people will be more apt to want to sing to their loving Heavenly Father than to some commanding, demanding heavenly dictator. Be careful of the picture you paint of God. When people preach this strict obedience, they are making God out to be selfish and self centered which is opposite of who God is.
Straw man, Ryan. Why would you think that God’s commands are a burden, or joyless? Perhaps you’ve never experienced the joy of grateful obedience? Or do you believe it impossible that someone can obey a command with a joyful heart?
Read the Psalms. ALL OF THEM. You’ll find times when David certainly didn’t *feel* like worshiping God. But he did anyways, and that act of obedience turned his heart back to the Lord again and again. Believe right, do right, and you will feel right. Don’t get those out of order.
God isn’t selfish and self-centered, but only because those aren’t descriptions that fit God. But He certainly is completely consumed with His own glory. “I am the Lord, that is my name… my glory I will give to no other.”
You are exactly right, Dwayne. I am a professor of music, who teaches the history of music, and I am also a church musician. After surviving the worship wars, I thought all of this lack of participation was about taste and preference. But then reading blogs like this and other articles about non participation in churches with contemporary services, I realized it had to go deeper than this. In the past year, I have read several books about the broader collapse of singing in society, well beyond the walls of the church. While there may be things we can do in terms of education or explanation or managing amplification and people’s manner of presentation on the platform, there are much bigger forces at work, as there always are on the church. We live in a society in which most people experience music through recorded means, not through active participation. If we went back in time to the 1910s, before radio (and everything since), we would be amazed by the world. If you wanted music then, you had to make it or have someone else make it. Living in a world where music is mediated primarily through mechanical or electronic means, and this is regardless of style, classical music, too, is now mostly experienced via recordings, is going to profoundly change how the individual relates to the act of music making, even in the church.
I agree. Many people probably don’t sing in church because it is not our culture anymore to sing in public. There is a widening gap between those who feel qualified to sing and those who don’t. We are embarrassed if someone were to catch us singing. In other cultures singing is a part of life done by everyone. I read of a man visiting Africa who said “I don’t sing.” The villagers, incredulous, said “Can you talk? Then you can sing!”
Young people don’t have a problem singing today, or rather I should say screaming a song today, or doing RAP music, or trying to be a Rock star! Look at all the “Idol” shows from different countries, everyone trying to be famous singing loud obnoxious worldly songs! No one has to teach unbelievers to sing if they want to try. Even young children have been seen on YouTube copying this or that famous popular singer!
Oh yes, the world still sings! Satan is still doing everything he can to silence us, or turn us into a lame copy of himself!
So, would you be willing to describe what that environment looks, sounds, feels like? I’m a worship pastor of a “contemporary” styled church who totally agrees with your observation that congregational singing is experiencing a decresendo. Lifting our hands in the air and waving them like we just don’t care is all well and good, but if we are listening only and not singing we forfeit the sweetest part of music in the church. What other moment in a worship service can everyone vocalize and at the same time everyone completely understood?
James, take a look at some my suggestions to Pastor Don, above.
Great post! I think these are all true, and perhaps a few other factors as well. The good news is that these factors can be tweaked, if desired. Some people do prefer to worship in a concert-like setting. But we should also give them a chance to sing accapella occasionally and hear themselves as the body. I lead a praise team and pick music. This post was a good reminder for me and illustrates the challenge to pick songs with good content that are singable, and there are many songs out there that fit both of these criteria.
It may be outdated, but our church still uses hymnals. We are planning a new building to seat even more and we will still use hymnals.
When you can see the words easily, it’s easier to sing along. And we only have about 40 songs that we choose from, so it’s easy to memorize the words.
The only real problem is that since everyone has the words memorized and they are all singing, are they really singing from their heart (in worship) or from their head (from memory)?
I think you have it backwards in your last paragraph. When you know the words and the rhythm you can focus your attention on the meaning of the words and the glory of God. When you don’t know the words or the flow of the song, your attention is on the screen and trying to get the song right.
Exactly. We do a contemporary service, and we have found that when we stopped learning so many new songs, following the radio charts, and started repeating songs more regularly, we got much more participation. The lyrics absolutely have to be on screens.
We also don’t do anything resembling showmanship, we don’t do “specials” or solos, but as a drummer, and also one of the sound techs, you can be sure I make sure there is some energy in the room.
They do at South Main Baptist in Houston. We do all We can to foster participation and to encourage them to sing. (Col 3:16)
Check out the YouTube link and listen to ‘old hundredth’ from a couple of weeks ago. It was an unexpected a cappella rendering and they soared!
can’t find it on youtube- can you share the link?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/churchformen/2013/05/why-men-have-stopped-singing-in-church/
Good stuff, Dave.
This is such an interesting conversation! So many things to think about.
I have witnessed the tremendous power of the “singing-around-the-campfire” effect when I stumbled on to it accidentally teaching VBS songs to a group of children. Group Publishing VBS songs are so memorable and easy to teach (the children can learn the words and actions from DVD’s) that we use them to prepare for and present children’s music in worship. To get the songs “into their heads and hearts” I alternate presenting them to the children in several different ways:
Watching the DVD as a group (the children are facing the TV),
Watching me present the melody, words and actions (the children are facing me),
Watching each other singing and standing in a circle (the children are facing each other)
Singing and dancing together as a group (the children are scattered around the room)
By far, the most powerful, loving, connecting, heart-felt emotion happens when the children and adult leaders are in a circle facing each other. The loving connections bounce back and forth and I can see and feel the joy in everyone’s faces.
It would be fun to try this in a worship setting. Thanks for the great idea.
Curious though, what is the difference between church and a concert in terms of audience participation? Because although a concert contains the professional quality, loud volume, spectator set-up, and sometimes unsingable songs, those in attendance do seem to sing along.
One difference, Ali, could be that at some of those concerts, the singers create and cultivate a community environment so that the audience feels like they’re just singing along with an old friend and remembering all the nostalgic feelings that come with that music. While some worship leaders do try to encourage the congregation to sing, there seems to be, in some churches, an environment ethos that “we don’t do that here”. It’s as if sitting in respectful silence is more appropriate. So, it’s probably needful for pastors to address this and try to encourage a different environment–one in which singing is welcomed and encouraged.
As a music director in a Methodist church I totally agree, Pat… I have watched my people at events like Women of Faith and Christian concerts ‘whoop it up,’ yet in church they are quiet and almost timid in their singing. They feel church is different.
I have a “holy hunch” there could be another factor at work here as well Thom. Is it possible that the words of the pre-selected worship songs do not connect with the hearts of those who are being asked to sing them? Anyone who is big on authenticity finds it difficult to mouth words that do not reflect their current reality. Or, mouth words that they do not understand. The more I think about this makes me think a case could be made for how this kind of worship sets people up to become hypocrites. Isaiah 29:13 says The Lord said, “These people claim to worship me, but their words are meaningless, and their hearts are somewhere else. Their religion is nothing but human rules and traditions, which they have simply memorized.” GNT
Dwayne hits it on the head, especially if a church has been effective in reaching those who were not raised in church. While seating, familiar songs and encouraging people to sing are helpful (and I would add to that list – the skill of a worship leader to drop back the volume and instruments at points in order to fill the room with mostly voice, making sure songs are in a singalong key for men and women and picking songs that are quickly learned) But mostly we need to understand that we are the last outpost of community singing and this will be a strange and uncomfortable experience for many new folks stumbling through our doors…and they will be much more at home with minimal participation for quite awhile but may be getting a lot out of the experience all the same.
Some great thoughts, Thom. Worship is not a certain hour of the week and only with singing. Worship is our whole life. As a worship leader during our cooperate worship times, it is my responsibility to try to engage the congregation in whatever we do. If I don’t, I have failed. On the flipside, the congregation also has the responsibility to come prepared to engage in worship. You only get out of worship what you are willing to put in.
Okay a comment about your “blare” point…
You are making a good point and I don’t contend with it. People will stop singing if its too loud.
But “turning it down” isn’t always the best answer because there is such a thing as too soft. A “too soft” mix was the greatest reason people weren’t singing out at my church. Once we started pushing the overall volume to 85dB or 90dB, expressive worship exploded. It was predictable and consistent. Try it on your own – the best volume for listening is quieter than the best volume to accompany your own SINGING OUT. If you feel like the whole congregation will hear you if you start singing because the music is so soft, you’ll likely NOT sing. (Which was the case for my church).
This blog rocks – I don’t want to detract from that – but I think the more accurate problem in your list isn’t “Blare” but “Bad Volume” or “Bad Mixing.”
I wrote about that awhile ago in detail here, if anyone is interested: http://www.cmiworship.com/2011/07/how-loud-should-a-worship-service-be/
Adam, as someone who previously earned my living as a professional audio engineer, both at a church as well as in the marketplace, and as someone formally trained as a musician and as someone who since then has worked in various aspects of media for thirty-four years, I can tell you that my experience is that if you want a congregation or secular audience to sing louder, the music should generally be turned up, not down. There are exceptions … however in general, people will sing (if they so desire) at the volume they hear. If they hear softly, they sing softly. If they hear loudly with intensity, they sing loudly with intensity.
I honestly think part pf the problem is that too many churches have started something…anything…to step into the “contemporary” world (and I loathe that term). While I do understand the folks that want to hear the old standards in worship, even to a praise band beat, many new, young, and millennial worshipers are turned off by that. So I think the bigger issue at hand is, who are you trying to reach with your worship style, or are you taking a shotgun approach when a laser beam should be used?
There are a lot of churches that put on the what I call Shine Jesus Shine shows and expect to draw young crowds while appeasing older crowds. Is that bad? Only if you expect young people to show.
Why not bring in some secular and even embrace it? Heck, our praise team did Happy buy Pharrell Williams and we didn’t need to put up lyrics and saw a munch of our congregation not only singing, but dancing…no we’re not Baptist.
And when we enter a series, we are very pointed about teaching a new song that usually ties into the series…then we stick with it. In this manner we teach new songs in great ways and have gotten great feedback. But one thing that happens is, we get different (usually older) folks that come because they want to get in and out of church early and they almost always lodge complaints about songs too fast, no notes to sing with the leader, don’t like the way the leader dresses, music is too loud, too much video. To the complaints we just shake it off and continue forward because God has called us in the direction we are moving.
Therein-lies the true question. Is your church “called” to have a differing worship style? Are you called out into the wilderness to be confronted by the temptation to turn back and introduce the fruits of traditional church back into what you are doing?
My suggestion would be that if you’re doing non-Traditional worship, listen to your local Christian rock radio station. What are they playing? I’m far from the age that should go for that style, but if we want he church to go and grow as God commands, we need to sound more like a cross between Tomlin and Skillet rather than Crowder and the Gaithers. Bleh. And if you like the Gaithers once in awhile, look to the traditional folks who flock to that style, but don’t ask non-Traditional folks to do the standards any more than you’d ask the Traditional folks to do Tell The World by Hillsong United…which is incredibly AWESOME!
Let the proverbial beating begin…..
I think you skimmed over something very important in this. People are more reactionary toward the pop culture centered than Christ centered. Worship is an outflow of the heart. While we in the church have been conditioned to fake it for certain events, the reality of our heart focus comes out in our corporate singing.
Thom, We (Wife & I) met you in Rochester, NY. I look with interest at this fact in the church because of what I have witness and because I soon will be at a new pastorate. I attempt to blend contemporary and traditional hymns. Our choir takes off during the summer and I hear a difference. Those voices, although still singing, don’t have the same affect as when they are looking at the congregation singing. Plus, when they up front they are not considered “show persons” but simply song leaders. During Lent we had a special service bringing a number of congregations together for worship. We put four men in front of the congregation to lead praise time before worship with only piano for music. The participation was great. Sometimes simple is better.
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgcworship/2014/02/18/five-ways-to-improve-congregational-singing/
Come to calvary chapel old towne!
Back in my parents church where my dad was the song leader, everyone sung loud but that was in part that my dad had a good loud singing voice. When I got married and moved, the next church, people sang quiet in the evening service because the song leaders at the time didn’t sing all that loudly. With the praise team in the morning service, I would say people sang averagely but when familiar old hymns were sung, people sung louder.
I did visit a large church with an excessively loud praise band and I literally could not hear myself singing. I could have shouted profanity and nobody would have heard. I quit going to that one because I didn’t want to ruin my hearing any more than was already started.
Yea, some of those newer praise songs are more meant for a solo artist who can actually hit those high notes than a congregation. I certainly cannot sing them. Some of the more emotional love songs would make me feel uncomfortable as they are more fit for a woman singing to her lover. As anyone, I have my preferences.
We’re a very traditional New England church and we started a contemporary worship service a couple of years ago. We found that the high school youth who attended did not sing, even though the songs were the ones they loved to belt out at their workcamps. We asked for their feedback and they said that the music seemed too polished — like it was a show. They also said it was too loud, so all they could hear were the voices in the praise band. They wanted to hear the congregation sing along, and they wanted to have their voices needed. I think the music was also too shmaltzy for younger generations, with beautiful harmonies. We made those changes and got a teenaged praise band leader — now they sing their hearts out and are much more engaged in worship. The adults like it better, too.
Worship is a response. If people are encouraged to respond in worship, people usually worship and sing in that that’s what they’re there to do. Worship Leaders could certainly consider more and more of what it means to help people enter into worship. Whenever I have taken the time to speak or teach about a little something in scripture or a spiritual thought (not a long time – the pastor doesn’t want another sermon preached), I have found that people are much more responsive in a worship setting to express their hearts to God. I don’t think it has anything to do with the music style. I think the lack of singing has to do with the lack of leadership. People in my church sing their hearts out and it’s a contemporary worship service. I’m not patting myself on the back, but I’m just trying to make the point that I don’t think Thom has hit the nail on the head here. There’s nothing wrong with awesome rock music, cool lighting/haze/fog and the decibel level being high. However, when those things are magnified (because they are big) over Christ being magnified in an authentic manner, that’s when people see things like this as a show or a performance. I think we should perform in church. For God. We should perform our guts out for Him and thank Him for all He’s done with the very best of our abilities, too. When I hear something beautiful or excellent, it helps me see the beauty and the excellent character of God more. Although, I may be a rare person who likes Gregorian chant, a mega loud rock band and everything in between. I see God in all of those experiences in church. Thom said it well in his closing. He longs for an environment that evokes his real heartfelt vocal participation. I think a worship leader helps with that along with the programming and the moments we allow ourselves to experience God in worship.
Billy I think you hit the nail on the head 🙂 People are not stupid – They can sense when a worship service is more of a concert than a heartfelt praise to God. When worship leaders sing with all of their heart to God, are obedient and attentive to the holy spirit, it is contagious across the congregation. As a side note, in all this discussion, let’s not emphasize methods over the work of the holy spirit. I believe all of these styles and methods are neither here compared to the importance of what the holy spirit can do in hearts when we turn the reigns over to him.
Excellent analysis. I like all 500 years of written music! I will play plainchants, southern gospel, contemporary “pop”, jazz, rhythm and blues, Fanny Crosby (her husband wrote the tunes), Handel, Bach, Mozart and Mendelssohn. And no matter what I play, someone in my congregation will remark that it touched them. I pray about what I choose, work hard to make sure I am playing it well, and listen to the spirit. Our songleader does the same with the hymns. We contact each other about the choices. We have a small praise and worship band, as well as a traditional choir, and sometimes we all work together (usually a southern gospel tune). We sometimes teach new choruses/praise&worship songs to the congregation but we do it over a few weeks: I play it as an offertory, choir sings it as an anthem. Then we do it as congregational singing. This appears to work with our group. We just need to remember that we are performing for God’s pleasure, and not our own (though if we perform well, God may give us some satisfaction and happiness with the result!).
In my many years of touring and leading worship in a wide variety of churches, what I’ve observed is this: if the songs are well chosen, familiar and in a singable key, people will sing. If the environment is welcoming and discourages self-consciousness, people will sing. If the leadership is strong and confident and skillful, people will be drawn into participation.
It’s important to remember that we’re asking our people to do something that is culturally anomalous; we live in a spectator culture; there’s almost nowhere in our normal lives (besides church) wherein we sing together.
Second, many worship leaders will choose songs that showcase their own vocal ability w/o considering what most people are capable of singing. The congregation quickly discerns that that they can’t sing along (i.e. the range is too high, etc.) and they just stop participating.
Third, we often fail to give them something familiar to sing. Just about the time a congregation is starting to warm up to a song, we worship leaders are sick of it. A strong leader will have the maturity to choose songs that are useful even when he or she would prefer to do something new and personally satisfying.
Fourth, the volume is either too high (concert level) which suggests “shut up and listen!” Or, conversely, the music is too quiet, which results in self-consciousness (they don’t wanna sing out because “people can hear me!”). Often the real problem is not the actual volume, it’s a poor mix (and people usually express their displeasure at a bad mix as “it’s too loud!”). The same goes for lighting in the room; if it’s dark, it can seem like a spectator/concert experience, but if it’s too bright people get self-conscious. Finding the sweet spot is tough.
I love being caught up in the Spirit when I sing. It takes over my whole being. Imagine singing one song for an hour. We did that once. it was amazing as the Spirit flooded into our meeting. and the presence of God was tangible.
Sadly I don’t go that church anymore because I have moved country. I recently came close to that in a small fellowship that met in a shed in the back yard and since then all I can do is play and sing “Worship the Lamb” with words like “Thankyou for the cross Lord, Thankyou for the nail pierced hands…” I play it over and over again on my MP3 player.
I love it because it beings me back to the one thing I should never forget…the cross.
There are even more factors than the ones given. When you go to Amish and Mennonite communities, you find that their congregations are VERY musical…and if you sat through one of their meetings, you would hear full 4-part harmony sung by 95% of the group. …So why is this?… They are very “family-oriented.” ….they sing together as families outside of church, and they (for the most part) listen to only a capella music. On the flip side, most “Christians” are NOT family-oriented (each member is usually endeavering to be independent of the others, whether by cell phones, TV, work, or school….). This pulls everyone apart, and even in church the farmily unit is rarely together. So good, 3-part harmony is seldom heard in church. Add into this the fact that what is listened to OUTSIDE of church is rarely good 3-part harmony. …In the end, you wind up with an entire generation that don’t know HOW to sing…(NOT THAT THEY CANT,…JUST THAT THEY DONT KNOW HOW!). you might compare this generation to one that doesn’t know how to ride bicycles …. 95+ people out of 100 could ride, bit until they’ve been taught,…(or shall I say have enough self-discipline to teach themselves)…until this happens, the majority will pass it off and say, “I CANT.” The ability is there, but this entire generation has not been given the chance to learn.
(just another factor to stew on)
…By the way, I taught music in a college setting for two years, and in this time, was disheartened by 90% of students that had BEAUTIFUL voices,…and yet no “know-how” when it came to vocal parts. …They just hadn’t heard it enough to learn it….
Your solution, Thom, sounds a whole lot more like “house church” than the theater style setting of our churches today. Church buildings have always been stage focused, but even more so today with special lighting and screens. The whole atmosphere promotes watching rather than participating.
Now that I no longer am preaching, I am shocked how things look from the other side. Not only do I see just a handful singing, but I see a lot of bored looking men who look like they would leave in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for that sweet wife standing beside them. I’m not sure how long they can hold on! What really scares me is I might be headed out the back door myself!!!
(commenting under hubby’s pseudonym) i’m always amazed when men such as yourself, Mr. Row, continue to be “led by the nose” into church than take the lead and encourage Sunday Sabbath worship/teaching/prayer to be more masculine friendly. So you may be “headed out the back door” why be satisfied with this instead of doing something! Sad sad state of the church.
I’m surprised nobody else has proposed my current hypothesis: people sing less because *they don’t have the notes*. The transition from hymnals to projected lyrics means no more written music. You know, a staff, with notes on it. Even non-music readers can sometimes pick up enough “up and down” of written music enough to aid their singing.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!!
I’m not sure how many people even know how to read music nowadays, Alan. Unless people grew up playing in a school band or took private lessons, none of that would probably mean much to them. I can tell by the way people around me sing or don’t sing when we use the hynmals. They don’t know which notes are supposed to be held long and which ones aren’t, etc. I’ve often thought it would be nice to project the notes on the screen along with the words, but aesthetically it would probably be too cluttered on the screen coupled with the fact that many don’t know how to read music.
One thing that some worship leaders will do, is tell the congregation to listen to them sing a song through once when it’s a new one and then join in.
I wholeheartedly agree! I want written music with harmonies also!!!
Right you are! Even “non-readers” of music read more than you think they do! After all, reading music really is not rocket science.
This is the answer right here. The congregation began to cease singing when hymnals were removed. There is a place for both new and old music but if you don’t give people a means to read, sing and thus learn the pieces, they don’t sing.
Six weeks before Easter, I went to my pastor of the new church my wife and I recently joined. They had NO choir or praise team at all. They sang to “canned” piano music. Was this wrong? ….ABSOLUTELY NOT! …My wife and I LOVED the spirit of worship. …But I discretely asked my pastor if he minded having some special music for Easter Sunday. He said, “Shoot for it!”….So they announced that anyone in the congregation interested in a small choir, to meet after the main service. The church’s average attendance is approx. 30. …..out of this, 15 gathered up front!!!! I gave them all sheet music (which some of them had NO idea WHAT to do with), a CD of JUST their specific part to listen to at home, and every Sunday we delved into each part. Many of them threatened to back out with the excuse that they didn’t know what they were doing. I even had a few ask, “What if we don’t know how to sing!?!?”
4 weeks went by.
After much patience with each other, one day I told them all to stand up and follow me to a spare room with a very echo-y atmosphere. We quietly filed in, then stood in a circle facing each other. I gave each of the 3 groups their first notes one by one. Then I started them off on the song. As each person began to sing what they had learned, things began to click. At first, everyone was upset by hearing other notes besides the one they had practiced thru the preceding weeks, then, slowly, it clicked.
Rarely will you ever witness something so beautiful as this: A group of non-professionals, volunteering to sing without knowing how, stand in a circle, and hear (for the first time EVER for them) three-part harmony coming out of THEIR own voices and hearts! ….I tell you I cried! The looks on their faces- to witness the unlocking of unknown talent…..just phenomenal!
Our churches may have many issues….ranging from “over-production” to a plain-old lack of spiritual fire,….but when you take 15-17 WILLING souls who just want to be a blessing, show them what real singing is, when they suddenly realize that pure, Godly music without the “fluff” is actually enjoyable, …(believe me- I’ve seen it happen). ……they will take off and FLY!!!!!
David, you’ve hit on a fundamental aspect of any type of corporate vocal music – it is an intimate endeavor; especially singing to praise God. I’ve been fortunate to be able to sing in good church choirs for most of my life, until I joined the Church of Christ. Now, everyone KNOWS the CofC doesn’t do music. But everyone is wrong – we don’t include instruments. The vocal strength of our congregation on Sundays is 300 people singing in beautiful four part harmony – always a capella. We have accomplished this by helping the young people to learn to not only read music, but to harmonize in parts. It works for us – it can work anywhere. It’s all a matter of effort.
Agreed. The church at-large has adopted the “Seeker” model, which can best be described as the dumbing down of the worship service. The attitude is, you can’t be disciples on your own. We’re the professionals. Don’t try this at home.
If you think about it, Martin Luther’s Reformation was a reaction to much the same thing. Parishioners were not allowed to read the Bible on their own. Let the priest or the pastor do it for you. The church paid the professional musicians to perform their worship so the congregation could be the audience. Luther brought corporate worship back to the masses so the person in the pew could enter in.
The truth is, in worship, there are no spectators, only participants. God is the audience, not us.
The modern “professional” church (Jesus, Inc.) has reverted back 500 years to pre-Reformation thinking.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
I think that hymns the church have for many years, decades and century keep the congregation participate in singing…the last few decades, contemporary songs are mass produce (and not necessary a bad thing) but the church just not able to keep up with “new songs” all the time. The other day, I asked my 20-somthing worship team member about “Jesus Freak” by DC talk, and they don’t know who they are or the song. I ask them more about Audio Adrenaline and he doesn’t know either. The church today have many great worship songs but the turn over are too fast for the church…my thought.
That makes a lot of sense. The old hymns I grew up with were sung by my parents and probably grandparents. The hymn books had the dates the songs were written and some of them back to the 1800’s so everyone grew up with them and had no problem singing those over and over our whole lives.
The contemporary songs are like the secular top 40. They are in and out and maybe one or two stick with churches but after 4 years now being out of church, if I were to go back to a large contemporary worship. I doubt I will know any of the songs.
Funny to think from different perspectives. My 16 year old daughter, who is a musician, says that she feels people in our church don’t sing because the music is NOT loud enough, so they are self-consious about singing out loud.
And that’s how many treat the worship, Ryan, like it’s part of the top 40. I know someone who was a lay leader who would complain the worship and compare it to his brother’s church and how we weren’t singing the most current songs. And this is who you have leading some churches–people who think we need to keep up with the current trends, whether it works or not. I can’t imagine not singing a song because it’s not “current”. Does the song fit the theme of the service? Is it what is needed to minister to someone’s soul? Not, “we stopped singing that a couple of years ago”.
I prefer the traditional songs, I do not care much for the praise songs. I like to sing from the hymnal. If I found myself In trouble I would rely on the “old Hymns” not the praise songs. And if you look around the men are not singing regardless! How are the young crowd going to learn the traditional songs?
Why does the young crowd need to learn the traditional songs any more than the old crowd needs to learn the new praise songs?
Because Hymns edify, teach place Jesus Christ firmly in the center of worship, that’s why. The first words printed in our hymnals say: “Next to the Bible is the hymnal.” By making a statement that the youth culture do not need to learn hymns you are stating the opposite case. Hymns are precisely what they need. Our mid-sized church has gone through the contemporary craziness and come out the other side. We kept the best of what the contemporary trend offered: though hymn book are still in the pews, we do use an overhead video, some of the more meaningful P&W song have survived. We no long use piano and organ only; we have both plus a guitarist who is equally adept at hymns and contemoprary songs, and a drummer. The organ was restored — but it is played not like your grandmother’s organ. We found that the congregation sings a whole lot better with the support of the organ. This has become a trend in our area. You can fill the pews with youth who will stand like zombies and occasionally raise a hand. But youth don’t tithe, volunteer unless coerced. Families make up the church family. That means moms and dads in their 20’s 30′ & 40’s with kids of all ages, and yes grandmothers and grandfathers. A church filled with rockin’ out teenagers and long suffering mute adults is AN UNHEALTHY CHURCH. It is a dysfuntional family because corporate worship has pandered to one element of the mix. My $.02 worth.
As a music professional with a master’s degree in church music and having attend both traditional and contemporary I prefer the traditional. The old hymns Patricia as one of my professor taught me are like reading a book. The first stanza gets your attention the stanzas in between are filler in the story and the last is the grand finale. Most contemporary just keep repeating themselves. As far as singing you need a strong leader. At to the point about the words being outdated that were being a profession comes in. It is up to the leader to explain what the words mean,
Absolutely right
I can address this because as a 66 year old, you’re not going to draw the younger generation with songs you prefer just because you don’t care for a particular style of song. Our generation is beginning to die off and we need to be mentoring the younger generation to step in and take over. Which is why so many once prominent churches are dying everywhere I look is a sea of grayhaired congregants because of refusal to change with the times. We had a slogan where I attended years ago “Geared to the times but anchored to the rock”
Joseph you have hit the nail on the head my brother!
I agree with you, Patricia. The old songs taught lessons, provided for wonderful worship moments focused on God (Holy, Holy, Holy) and were a tie among generations. I find most of the choruses hard to sing, focused on “I”, and honestly boring when the choruses are sung over and over and over and over. I also find it much harder to sing with a keyboard or guitar (thankfully we don’t yet have a band) than with a piano or especially an organ which I think tends to draw our worship to focus on the Most High God.
I think the issue is that people are expecting an “environment” that fits their needs. I place money on it that each row of 10 people has at least 3 different “Environments for Worship” they are “looking” for. Just worship…
In business, if you are a leader and you turn around and nobody’s following – then your just out for a walk. If you are a ‘worship leader’ and nobody’s worshiping – what does that mean?
There have been several great observations in this thread but I think the big picture is this: it ain’t about the style or what’s comfortable to the worship team or what’s on the local radio station. In fact, two verses with the chorus repeated 25 times is very sad (and boring). It may work for rock music but God’s message is far too rich and far too powerful to dumb it down.
If you are called to lead, then lead them into the presence of the living God, not the top 40 list on the local CCM station. But that means you need to know them. Where they are spiritually. A good teacher knows his students. In the Group acronym R.E.A.L., the L stands for ‘learner based’. It’s not what’s easy for the teacher but instead what the student needs. Is leading worship any different?
Oh Terry, I so agree with your comment about the repetitiveness of some songs. After a line is repeated many times my brain and heart just tune out and I beginning to plan my grocery list.
7-11 choruses…totally boring to me!
Once again, Thom has hit the nail on the head. When people can hear themselves, and others sing, there is a sweet harmony that happens. Out of this, the Holy Spirit can touch people’s spirits and take the congregants into a heavenly realm. God wants to inhabit the praises of ALL of His people, not just the worship team’s.
Singing reinforces the message within the singers’ hearts as it spreads the message of the lyrics to others. Congregational participation in singing is vital for these reasons despite supposed societal trends. Early second century pagans thought that Christians were “weird” because they ate the “body” and drank the “blood” of Christ in Communion. Thankfully, the Lord’s Supper survived.
I’ve noticed when we have just a piano and a few of the senior citizens from our alternate venue visit and lead worship, the whole congregation is loud and participating. But, when the lights are dimmed and focused on the regular crew with the bassist bobbing his head up and down like a hair band throwback, and the drummer biting his bottom lip while he plays, it all quiets back down in the now transformed audience. Even in a small group we were talking and one of the guys referred to it as an audience rather than a congregation.
I don’t think you nailed it. People sing at concerts and the music is loud the singers professionals and there is a different element. You don’t have to worry about others hearing your awful singing voice or care. I hate hearing awful voices on the microphone and that’s when I don’t walk through the doors. You have to have singers that can sing to make it meaningful. Don’t put someone that can’t sing on the microphone!!! Ugh!
If the music is not easy to sing, too “high” for most people, then they won’t sing it. It’s too Hard! I love to sing and still do but if the tempo is slower than I would like I stop singing. If I can hear myself sing because the volume is down and no one else is singing, forget it!
Ask the 20 year olds. That’s the generation we are losing and fast!
Absolutely agree with you! People at concerts, even NFL games, are almost 100% participatory. They’re dancing, singing, swinging arms, leaning on each other–meanwhile the church remains the frozen chosen and we didn’t have to pay to get in. I mean really? The world is exuberant in their faith–why aren’t we? To me, there is only ONE factor at play here–a prideful, dead heart.
As to professionalism–read the book of Leviticus where it talks about professional temple singers. God’s people should be gifted and called to lead others. Bad singing by choirs sound like a mockery to me.
That’s what I think too. I rarely sing but I focus on the words of the song. I often wonder what people think when I’m singing because I’m aware that I’m awful at it. I rarely sand even when it was hymns as a kid growing up. I’d wait for them to bring out the praise and worship songs because those meant the most to me. They weren’t as slow and boring. There were only several hymns I liked.
I like it when its loud and you cannot hear each other singing
This string is perhaps THE most fascinating I have yet to read here.
Churches of Christ have always been non-instrumental, note I did not say non-musical, as we have accapella singing at every single worship. Is it “beautiful” music each and every time? Of course not, but it is heartfelt and meaningful. Young and old alike participate and isn’t that one of the purposes of worship? And yes………we even sing in three part harmony!
Churches of Christ have taken a lot of flack over the years for being “traditional” so I find it interesting that so many churches with worship bands are now rethinking their effectiveness.
Churches of Christ have ALWAYS believed we (as a body) are not in church to be entertained. We are there to praise and worship our Heavenly Father much like the Amish and Mennonite denominations mentioned above.
When believers are taught that singing is not optional and is expected by God i.e.: Ephesians 5:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 “speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,”
then the value and importance of worshipful singing won’t be an issue in churches anymore.
I understand this scripture to say “sing and make music from your heart”, period and not “if you feel like it”, or “if it’s convenient” or “If the spirit moves you” it simply says “sing”. I believe this to be a commandment regarding our worship.
God knew exactly what he was doing when he commanded singing. He created our brains to be stimulated by the endorphins that circulate in them when we sing and that causes us to feel happy, uplifted and hopeful. That is just one benefit of singing, but to be doing it in praise and adoration of our Heavenly Father raises our emotions to yet another level.
Sadly not every church of Christ has dynamic, musically inclined song leaders but we value singing so much we have someone in our family who teaches whole churches how to praise and worship more effectively using congregational accapella singing.
If interested please check this website:
http://keithlancaster.com/2013/12/what-to-expect-with-praise-and-harmony-workshops
Judy, I’m not Church of Christ, and do believe that having musical instruments in worship is mentioned in the Bible. However, I have visited Church of Christ services and must agree with you that the acapella music can be absolutely beautiful. I never heard any singing there that I didn’t consider outstanding… though I’m sure you are right about not all of the music being good all the time. I also found the harmony to be very uplifting to my soul. We all need to learn from each other.
Even though our Christ Church (Church of Christ) has traditional Capella singing at the 8:30 am service and instrumental at 11:00 am, we still sing and worship at 11:00 am. And at the end of many songs the instruments will stop and the congregation continues to sing a verse or two in Capella.
This is why I left the church I was raised in and went to Church of Christ. The music became less Christ centered and for the glory of God and more entertainment and for the glory of the person performing. There comes to a point in which you cross the line from worship into entertainment. We are not at church to be entertained but to worship. I think many churches have forgotten this. There are no perfect churches; however, we can strive to be more reverent in the methods we choose to worship.
Another point that hasn’t been talked about….Culture. If you have ever visited thriving churches that have a majority African American attendance – I guarantee you the choir will be able to compete with anything and anyone you see on “The Voice” or with most pros! I’m almost 50 and it’s always been that way. Now in these churches, the worship is vibrant, with clapping and when the song has been sung enough – you can get the entire church to turn into a big choir. However, I miss the hymns of the church, I love to sing them myself ( people are shocked when I know the second line to a hymn as well as the 4th – its that third one that tends to escape me 🙂 ).
I visited a church and made the mistake of saying Amen and Hallelujah (this church was majority Caucasian and SB at that) – but you know what was strange…the Pastor saw me after church and said – I wish the rest of the congregation was more like you! Culturally African Americans sing – we just do it! Not to say that professionalism hasn’t infected our culture also…because it has – and to the point that the whole worship experience will be either praised, or condemned on the worship team and the pastor……but I thought we were there to worship Christ? Hmmmmmm ?
And prerich, in our African-American churches, if someone gets up and does a solo and is not the most skilled, we give glory to God because we often know the back-story to that person’s testimony and they’re making a joyful noise from the heart based on what the Lord has brought them through. I think we’ve confused joyful with skilled. I agree, skill has its place, but we’re missing something when we make the focus.
Agreed!!!!
Prerich, you are absolutely right! By the way, I am in a NAB (Baptist) congregation, and though we are mosly Caucasian, we say amen and occasionally Hallelujah! We sing loudly, too, even the kids.
This is why my husband doesn’t like going to churches where he feels like they’re putting on a show. It doesn’t feel honest or intimate. It truly feels like you should just be watching.
The assumption is if you are not singing you are not worshipping- a very flawed assumption.
Agreed also. I believe singing is not worship but an expression of worship. Worship is truly your life that you live (including its flaws, not that we sin so grace can abound – but when we do sin we have somewhere to go – Christ, showing our dependency on him and our reason to worship in expression and action (life) all the more).
You’re right, Alan, and I do try to keep that in mind when I observe people not singing. I think what you’re seeing here is a lot of us who grew up with just about everyone participating more, even if they were just going through the motions, to people who stand still and just appear to be passive observers. If it weren’t that we saw so many people doing it, we probably wouldn’t even raise it as an issue, but it does appear that “something” is going on.
Less of that mostly banal worship music more classic hymnal music.
Thom,
I hope the worship pastor at your church hasn’t read this… if he/she has, please apologize to them… It might be my last day in ministry if this was written as a slam to me…
Taylor, no worries. My church doesn’t have someone called a “worship pastor.” Besides, this description isn’t about my particular congregation, but churches in general. And my comments are not intended as a “slam” to any individual–except myself, for whom I said I know I should overcome these barriers and just praise the Lord. My comments are directed toward all of us in the church. We all share responsibility in how we have designed “church as we know it.”
I agree with so many of the comments and would respectfully add these.
1. Accapella singing is alive and vibrant. Where? College campuses all over the nation…..just not on church of Christ campuses. My son was part of a Christian accapella group, X.ado, at Dartmouth College. The Christian group was one of about 20 groups on campus, the vast majority of which are secular. They annually went to Boston for a northeast conference of college Christian accappella groups including those from Harvard, Boston Univeristy, and MIT . My second son goes to Princeton where the accapella groups are a huge part of what goes on around campus. Go on youtube and put in college a accapella and you will be amazed. Churches are missing a huge opportunity to reach college aged students through this music, and no one does it better than the churches of Christ! Be aware, it’s not your father’s accapella, but it is good music.
2. Screens are killing worship. Hymnals and prayer books are implied invitations to participate. Everyone is hold one. It makes you feel welcome….like a drink when you enter a party. It makes the worship service make sense….especially to new comers. Screens allow/encourage detachment. If you must use screens, please put the music and the lyrics up….putting only the lyrics up says, “This is a closed club. We don’t care enough about you to even give you a way to participate.”
I don’t know, Jane. I’ve seen people open up the hymnals and either just stare at the page (ok, maybe they’re just reading along) or they just hold it while others sing. I’ve even seen some people not seem to be engaged as they absentmindedly pick up the hymnal when they realize that now the congregation is singing (or open up the bulletin to the responsive reading when they realize we’re reciting it, etc.). Maybe we just live in a distracted age in which people are just having a hard time engaging with church as we know it.
Agree we are forgetting how to
worship together through music
that is not 7/11
I think part of the problem is that we have made singing worship. We act as if the only thing that is worship is singing. Someone will preach their heart out and then someone will stand up and say, “OK, now let’s all worship.”
Singing is not worship, it’s part of worship. I am afraid we worship singing.
I’ve been mixing, recording and broadcasting major Christian conferences and church services since 1982 for a well known Christian radio network. I can honestly say I’ve been grieving over this (well defined) distruction of corporate worship in song for a long time. I am an objective, not subjective, witness to the withering participation by church goers. When I talk about it to the young, hip “worship” (they mean “music”) leaders they gloss over and say this is what the “schools” teach them. I could clarify more why some of these problems have come about but I’m trying to type on my phone. 😦
May I add another reason? Today’s worship leaders all sing so high, people find it impossible to find a key to sing along with. Chris Tomlin is amazing, but very few have his range.
That’s a problem I saw addressed somewhere, and Iwhat I recalled was that if the music’s melody was written or played in a key the men (think Baritone mostly) can sing, theoretically everyone should have no problem ranging it.
You sure hit that on the head. I feel the same way. I am disabled and can’t stand so seeing the overhead to learn the songs. I miss the Hymnals and the songs.
If we focus on song style, lighting, sound, etc then our focus is on the wrong thing. Worship is a privilege and and an act of obedience. As Christians, we are to worship God. God is worthy of our worship and I’ve never heard a song that made him any less worthy of worship. God is worthy of worship when we sing a hymn, new praise song, loud music, soft music, bright lights, no lights. God is worthy. So maybe the reason we don’t worship us because we’ve made worship about us and what we like and have forgotten that worship is about God, the One worthy of our worship.
Bingo Jason! Nicely put.
Jason, the book of Exodus contains many chapters of minute detail regarding the worship of God and the tabernacle. First and second Chronicles dedicates many similar chapters to details regarding the worship of God in the Temple. I do not recall any specific text regarding sound systems, lighting or musical styles, but I do know that God commanded his people to focus on all of artistic elements of these spaces including tapestry, the priestly garments, utensils, sculpture, bas relief, precious stone work, cast statuary, etc., In fact, he called out and specified who the exact artisans would be to work on these places of worship. Of these artisans, we see the first use in the Bible of the phrases, “I have called by name,” and then “… filled him with the Spirit of God.” So, I would think that focusing on the tools of worship is important to God. It is not an “either, or” equation, but an “and” equation. We must worship God and God alone, but the implements of our worship is important and noticed by God. This, of course assumes that we are not worshipping the implements. When that occurs the implements must get cast down (2 Kings 18:4), not because implements themselves are sinful … but because people can be.
I grew up in the Church of Christ so a capella singing has always been a part of my heritage in corporate worship. I’m not one who frowns on other styles of worship (contemporary or otherwise) and I’ve even visited a variety of other denominations. After nearly every visit I come away with a similar feeling regarding the praise time (singing)….the longing to feel needed or necessary. With a capella (or even toned down instrumental singing) there’s a interdependence between the gathered that if I don’t don’t do my part, there is diminishment.
As I lead singing now this is my tacit message to my gathered family…that for this to work we must all lift our God given voices in praise.
Great thoughts, Thom!
I somewhat disagree…
I believe the reason people have stopped singing is because they have forgotten they are a Royal Priesthood…and as a Royal Priesthood our first ministry to God…so sing Him.
But a majority want to get to the good stuff, communion, sermon, etc…it’s what satisfies them…we have sung enough, I feel good, come on already, let’s get to the good stuff.
If only people would remember that we minister to Him and for Him…that wether they feel like it or not – it’s time to bring their sacrifice of praise.
amen Andrew. This is actually stand for the singing of the Hallelujah Chorus. This was started by Queen Victoria who stood because as she said “There is a King higher than the king or queen of England and that is Christ.”
I was not Queen Victoria. She came on the scene long after Handel wrote this music. It was a King (which I can’t remember) who stood because he was overjoyed by the music. However, back then when Kings stood, you stood too. When they sat, then you could too.
King George III when he heard Handel’s Messiah was so moved by the Hallelujah chorus that he stood up. When the King stood, everyone else did as well. It became a tradition to stand for the Hallelujah Chorus, Often described as the Christian’s “National Anthem”.
There will be no overheads or hymnals in heaven. There will be no stages for worship teams. There will be true worshippers there. All creatures, great and small along with the Angels. Are we experiencing true worship? The angels cry, “Holy”! They WORSHIP Him! And what man are you following? Are you learning His ways or are you trying to please yourselves? The Holy Spirit will teach you how to worship if you spend time alone in His presence. Stay there long enough to hear his voice. Tarry, wait, learn. Allow Him to purify your heart. Forgive and be forgiven. Then experience corporate worship in the houses of worship. Until then you will continue to have a “form of godliness but deny the power. To worship Him, Worship Him in spirit and in truth.
Amen Ken!!!
This expresses my sentiment exactly – wish I had written a book before!
Is are goal for the followers of Jesus to sing or to worship Christ? Can people not worshiping Christ be blamed on the sound system? The leader? The stage? Could it be, possibly, the hearts of the followers are not desirous of His presence, to worship, to express their love for Jesus and gratefulness for their salvation? The answer to why Jesus’ people are not worshiping Jesus corporately with singing of more complicated than throwing the sound man under the bus I think. Just my thoughts.
This is the truth. People need to stop the blame game. Just admit your heart is cold instead of blaming it on other factors. Just because someone is singing along doesn’t mean their “worshipping.”
What this person just described happens in many churches. I’ve been on stage many times during worship with the Lord and I’ve seen some of the saddest faces looking out over the congregation. Many people seem so disinterested in praising and glorifying God. Even counsel men standing there not singing with there hands stuffed down in their pockets and looking around to see who’s there and who’s not. It truly must break God’s heart. That’s why I keep my eyes closed when I’m on stage.
The worst thing a worship leader can do is look at the people during worship because you’ll get discouraged really quick. Is what the people are doing more important to you than what God thinks? Worship leaders aren’t there to cheerlead people…they’re there to worship and glorify God…let other people follow if they want to. Your main focus should be the heart of God.
I think one of the reasons for this type of behavior in the congregation boils down to their relationship with God. I believe passionate, intimate, fervent communion with God changes everything. It changes how you worship, why you worship and when you worship. If people really understood how much God loves them, if they truly understood Gods true nature towards them, if they grasped his complete forgiveness through his grace, then all the demons in hell couldn’t stop them from glorifying God. When you see a person with their hands raised, singing to God and tears rolling down their face. When you see a person smiling from ear to ear and dancing during worship, not worried about anything else that’s going on in the church, then you’ve found someone who’s touched the heart of God. You’ve found someone who has connected with God at a level that most people are to embarrassed to pursue. They’re too self-conscious, their too carnal, they’re too self-center.
God loves us infinitely more than most of us will probably ever truly understand. He loves us without restraint, no conditions attached, whether you failed him or not. Whether you have any plans to become better or not…he loves you. God’s love for us is not based on our performance; it’s based on his nature towards us. It’s based on who he is. Our performance will certainly be influenced by his incredible love for us…how could it not.
There isn’t any area of your life that the love of God will not radically change. How quickly those changes come is based on what you meditate on.
God’s love will change how, why and when you worship him because knowing who your in love with…will change how, why and when you love him.
“The worst thing a worship leader can do is look at the people during worship because you’ll get discouraged really quick. Is what the people are doing more important to you than what God thinks? Worship leaders aren’t there to cheerlead people…they’re there to worship and glorify God…let other people follow if they want to. Your main focus should be the heart of God”
This direct quote from you, a worship leader, shows me what I already said I believe. The problem is an arrogance on the part of the leader. If you are a leader and look behind you and see not one following, you are just on a walk. Shepherds don’t just close their eyes and let the sheep fend for themselves and then blame the sheep when they leave the pasture.
I’ve read most of the comments and at the end of it all, the problem is us. We have come to believe that if everything isn’t perfect, then participation is optional. I am part of a small worship team in a small church. In any given service, we will hear not enough hymns, why do you do the old stuff, too soft, too loud, I didn’t like that song, etc. But as my leader reminds our people, it’s not about us, it’s about Him! We have a church that does sing and our team works hard to make sure that what we sing and do is our worship, not just a sing-a-long, but at the end of the day, worship, like praying, devotions, and other parts of our Christian walk, is about obedience
When our church moved to their new location back in 1985, congregational singing almost came to an abrupt halt. The old church had high walls, lots of glass and would ring during congregational singing. The new church had a low acoustical drop ceiling, carpeted floors, fully upholstered pews and the shape of the worship center caused the sound to travel sideways! People singing in the pews “thought” they were the only one singing because they could not hear the person sitting next to them singing. The sound system was poorly installed and would blast people away from the first six rows of pews. All these “architectural” problems sucked up the sound or drove the people to the back of worship center.
We remodeled the worship center back in 2000 by expanding the worship center, putting in a hard surface ceiling, and putting in a distributive sound system (This was actually the fourth sound system that had been installed in the worship center trying to “fix” our problems). This helped tremendously! I direct and lead the traditional worship service and a praise team (consists of two acoustical guitars, keyboard, cajone and 5 singers) leads our contemporary service. They are more folk sounding than heavy metal rock.
I agree with many of the “reasons” stated above, but it could also be be the worship center has acoustical problems.
Acoustically dead churches are the bane of good music and even choir singing, let alone congregational.
It’s very simple…we are making “consumers” rather than “disciples.” Consumers attend a Sunday assembly to receive something…to see what they can get out of it for themselves. Disciples, on the other hand, come to offer something, to give something…especially, as the writer of Hebrews mentions, to “encourage one another” (Heb 10:25). When we all come to “get” something, singing is contrary to that purpose. When we come to “give” then singing makes ALL the sense in the world.
Here’s something – maybe if we got rid of the word corporate and used the word congregational instead 😉 just a thought. @Candace ….yes, songs are way to high!!!
@Kevin – Agreed!
You admitted you stopped singing, stopped participating in worship. Don’t do it. Find a church where you can sing, where you can join in worship. They are out there. It’s your choice my friend.
Worship through song is our gift to God. When we raise our voices to Him in adoration and praise. The message or preaching is Gods gift to us. His adoration and love for us. I am an old traditionalist, and our church still sing from the good old Baptist hymnal. I love the times we just stop the instruments, raise our voices to the Lord and praise Him. You can hear all the beautiful voices trained and untrained around you. May God receive the glory. And may He be pleased.
Thankfully, this is not true of my church – a multi-site congregation of over 20,000 people. We have dynamic worship teams at each location. We project the words on a screen. The music is loud… However, as the video plays that signals church is about to start, the members stand up with about a minute to go – spontaneously. And start clapping in unison… When the music begins, the majority start worship God with their voices, their hands/arms raised, even whole bodies moving. Living in a state that knows how to celebrate at a football game, our pastor encourages the same level of devotion/worship on Sundays in corporate worship (as well as during private worship). We clap & sing for Jesus, not those on the stage. I am incredibly thankful for the spirit of worship at my church – Church of the Highlands in Birmingham, Alabama (and Montgomery, Huntsville, Auburn & Tuscaloosa).
Respectfully, Thom, I disagree and would like to redirect on your points. I think you’re aiming with good intent but have hit a few symptoms and not the real problem. The main issue regarding the lack of congregational singing is leadership. This is why we need trained and passionate worship leaders who understand that congregational singing is important and want to encourage everyone regardless of “singing ability.” Everyone has the ability to sing; they just need to know they have permission and are encouraged.
The lack of congregational singing in contemporary services has little to do with set-up. Traditional sanctuaries are set up in much the same way. The congregation faces a raised area (the chancel, altar, pulpits, loft, etc.). Now, I’ll proffer that worship in the round is spectacular when done well, but blaming set-up is not anywhere near the problem.
The lack of congregational singing is also not about “Blare.” Turning up the music, when complemented well with encouragement from the worship leader is actually a benefit to congregational singing. People become less self-conscious about their pitch and tone because they know they can sing at the top of their lungs and get into the movement of the song and the Spirit without thinking they’ll be scaring everyone around them. This also does not defeat congregational voice because worship leaders should work with the congregation for call & response actions or let the congregation sing without leadership so that they can hear themselves. “Turning it up” and “congregational singing” are not mutually exclusive. I’d like to remind everyone that some of the romping traditional worship experiences most of us have been in included an organ that was “blaring” our favorite hymns.
Finally, music choice and professionalism are both symptoms of bad leadership. If you have a worship leader who doesn’t understand that the congregation needs to learn songs … and takes the time to teach the songs to the congregation … you simply need to train your worship leader better. If the worship leader doesn’t listen, then he/she isn’t a “leader” and needs to be retrained or moved out of that position. Likewise, if your worship leader thinks everything needs to “sound like the CD” (the common argument for what you are calling “professionalism”) then your worship leader doesn’t understand congregational singing. Again, training and some brief theological education is a way to address this. Passion begets passion. I’ll take passionate and imperfect over perfection at the expense of silencing the congregation. On that part of the point, I think we’ll agree. However, “music choice” and “professionalism” are not problems but are symptoms of poor leadership. Instead, you make it seem like the structure or common traits of contemporary services are to blame, and at this I think you need to dig a little deeper to get to the need for worship leaders to better understand the value of congregational singing.
Thank you for sharing as I think congregational singing does need to be addressed and encouraged.
Thank you Pastor P.!! Very well said and I wholeheartedly agree! I have been a worship leader for many years and your comments are dead on.
Thank you. Absolutely right, Pastor P.
I don’t agree with all of this, although it CAN be true of some churches… although not entirely because of your named reasons. I’ve been a worship leader for about 18 years, about half of which was full-time, and all has been within the Assemblies of God. Based on my experiences and observations, I’ll make a few points:
1) I personally do not feel loud music causes people to not sing. I think it helps actually. Most of the people in the congregation are NOT good singers… and most of them tend to NOT sing out in fear that people around them will hear them, being aware of their own lack of singing ability. I’ve often seen that when the music is too soft, it causes people to clam up… especially in smaller congregations. Besides, 9 times out of 10, people complaining about the volume are complaining just because they don’t know enough to know what the REAL problem is… or they are just one of those people that just always finds something to gripe about. Usually the real problem is a poor mix, bad EQ settings, etc… so when it doesn’t sound good and just isn’t “right” to the ear, people complain and usually just default to “it’s too loud”. I’ve often seen situations where this was an issue, then they brought in a professional to really dial things in how they should be, then when it sounded good (and maybe even a touch louder!), the complaints drastically decreased.
2) Singing songs that are familiar doesn’t mean you have to sing “hymns”. First, what most people refer to as hymns are not what the Bible or even the dictionary establishes as what a hymn really is. I don’t think Jesus and the apostles had a copy of the hymn book you grew up with. 🙂 So bringing back “hymns” is not a cure-all by any means, although I don’t have anything against them. And you want songs that are singable?? Most of the old “hymns” are LESS singable than the majority of popular worship songs these days. They are only singable to those that grew up with them and have sung the same 40 songs over and over for 75 years. Don’t forget that those songs were at one time the new songs that people of that time were complaining about. One of these days, people will be complaining about why their church doesn’t sing the old Tomlin standards anymore instead of the new stuff. 🙂
I have a blog post I wrote dealing more in depth on this subject called “Effective Worship”. I’d encourage all worship leaders to read it: http://www.worshipready.com/item/effective-worship.html
Don’t forget, the Bible in multiple places encourages us to sing a NEW SONG! That doesn’t mean every Sunday… but it certainly rules out those that want to get stuck with only the same set of songs that they’ve always used. There is no Biblical basis for doing that.
3) Original worship songs can be powerful! They are NOT always a sign that the worship leader’s favorite songwriter is himself/herself. Not by a long shot. If God has gifted them to write music, then it would be WRONG for them to NOT write it! What songwriter can more effectively pen a song that speaks to exactly the place that the local church is in than that church’s own worship leader? None. Yes, I do original worship material. I use mostly songs from other sources, but originals are regularly in the mix. I’m not my favorite songwriter though… and I know that my songs, just like ANY other song (yes, ANY song), is often good for a SEASON. Just because it works this Sunday doesn’t mean it’s going to work next month, next year, etc.
4) One of the main reasons to explain why a congregation doesn’t participate is not mentioned in this article at all. It all comes from the top. The leadership. Every church should regularly have solid biblical teaching on what true worship is… and giving extra time in those services for people to practice what was preached! I think the lead pastor (yes, main one, more than the worship pastor) should teach at least once a year on this subject. When it comes from the top, it makes a real impact. The people expect the worship pastor to promote corporate worship… so it’s not taken in as much as when the lead pastor brings it forth. You can’t expect people to do what they’re not taught to do and why to do it.
5) Having people on stage trying to cheerlead the congregation only goes so far. The best way for your team (band and vocals all together) to lead the congregation is BY EXAMPLE. If the people see that you are TRULY worshiping, it will encourage them to come alongside and join you! If they see you are putting on a show, they’ll be put off. Most people know the difference. People know genuine and they know fake. Yes we should all do our best to be professional in the sense that we want to give our very best! We are playing for the King of kings! We work hard to rehearse and to use our gifts to the best of our ability. We come ready. We come to Sunday’s service like it’s game time. But beyond that, we focus throughout the week in personal times of worship and spending time in HIS presence so when we come in on Sunday, we have an experience to lead from! We’re not trying to make something happen… we’re just taking the experience of the week and letting it out in a corporate celebration, giving HIM all of our praise!
In a nutshell, if your congregation doesn’t participate in worship, there’s a WHOLE LOT more to it than volume, song selection and visuals. Unfortunately, that’s usually as far as people go… because they’re stuck comparing the aspects of the service to their own preferences and opinions. A people that truly knows how to worship… is taught Biblical worship… is lead by example… is in an atmosphere that makes room for and encourages worshiping in spirit and in truth… will engage in worship, whether the current song is their favorite or not.
Sorry for the book I just wrote, but I’m passionate about this subject and when it gets bashed, especially with the “old standard bashings” that regularly get rehashed over and over, I have to throw in my two cents… or more. 🙂
Don’t forget that those songs were at one time the new songs that people of that time were complaining about.
I’m old enough (I guess it means something when you start prefixing remarks with that) that I’m in a more modern version of this. I grew up on the 70’s and 80’s “Jesus Music” that preceded what we now call CCM, and I find that I have a decided preference for that music over the CCM of today. If I were of a more grumpy disposition, I’d be tempted to grouse about how much “better” the Christian music I grew up with was than what’s around, and could probably throw out some reasonable-sounding reasons why – e.g. that the music of that time seemed to be more ministry-driven than market-driven compared to what you see now.
But I suspect that “the old stuff was better than the new stuff” is going to be a constant refrain, in whatever time period you’re in, because in a sense you’re not doing an apples-to-apples comparison. The “old stuff” (whether the old hymns or the old Jesus Music) that you know is the “old stuff” that was good enough to pass the test of time. The bad “old stuff” is forgotten (largely because it was bad). But when you turn to current music, you face a mixture of both. You’re not comparing the old music and songs with the new. You’re comparing the best of the old with the full range, quality-wise, of the new. It’s not surprising that, in whatever time period you’re in, the current stuff seems to fall short.
There were schlock hymns, and there was schlock Jesus Music, but they’re largely forgotten. What you deal with today is a mixture of good and bad, quality and schlock. Keep that in mind before making absolute pronouncements about the relative merits of the old and the new.
You are right Ben! I also grew up mostly with 70s / 80s worship music. Most of it is probably the reason why I never had interest in pursuing worship ministry until a later age. 🙂
Anyway, as you said, whatever the time period, style, denomination, etc… people will always tend to like older songs compared to the newer ones, mostly because of their own familiarity. Also, people connect songs to experiences, so some of those old songs can be very special to you as it reminds you of when you got saved, or some other special moment in your life.
Personally, I don’t like the majority of CCM as you’d hear on the radio. I can’t handle 90% of Christian radio. I’ve always been that way. Most of it is pretty shallow. I do love much of the modern worship material though. There’s a LOT of great resources that are cranking out new songs that are very effective congregationally. Not ALL new songs of course… but quite a lot of them.
The great newer praise & worship songs of today that are good enough to stand the test of time will be the songs that, decades from now, church members will be wanting to hear still in services. The power doesn’t come from the song having been bound into a hymnal at some point in time… it comes from the song itself. There are certainly gems that last over the decades.
Some of the most effective songs in my experience are ones that actually combine the old and the new. It’s hard to beat a newer rendition of an old “hymn” combined with a newly written chorus or bridge! Songs like Tomlin’s “Amazing Grace / My Chains Are Gone”, Todd Fields’ “It Is Well” or Kristian Stanfill’s “Jesus Paid It All” are incredibly effective in the corporate worship service… bringing in some of the best of the old, combined with some newer lyrics and a fresh musical arrangement.
Sadly some would never experience anything like that because they look at the older songs are sacred… you can’t change it… like it’s Scripture or something. “We’ve never done it that way before” is the death of many congregations.
Nathan you just saved me a lot of time typing a response that is practically identical to yours. The narrow.. often times myopic perception that people have is really self serving..in a nutshell. Its NOT all about me. It’s about glorifying our Savior! I have a feeling that a lot of conservative traditionalists are in for a mighty big surprise if they think they are going to pass out hymnals in heaven! I believe there is something about singing a new song?? Hope is not too loud lol!
There are elements of truth in each of these in particular places and the article may be cause to examine how you worship in your church. It isn’t, however, about a particular style. I’ve watched people stay un-engaged in a more liturgical service where all the music were hymns. I’ve also seen people truly worshiping within the same style. I’ve seen contemporary services (whatever that means today) where people are fully engaged while other services of similar style are more like entertainment. It’s always about our hearts as we worship the Lord and those given to lead us musically in worship. “Set your minds on things above and not on things of earth.”
They bible does tell us to play skillfully unto the Lord and it does leave room for stringed instruments, horns and such. So singing with voices only could be an answer but it isn’t the only answer. I have been to church’s where more emphasis is placed on the worship time and not the Word time so that is not the answer either. My experience as a worship leader has lead me to believe that people don’t worship because they don’t know how important it is to their spiritual growth according to the Word of God. For example not to many Christians know unless they study that the nation Israel worshipped / Sang to God before battle as an invitation for Him to be present with them while they were to go to war. King David while in the wilderness always worshipped the Lord during time of trial and tribulation or just in celebration. But the truth is that people don’t worship because they don’t want to. Worship is a condition of the heart worship does not start on Sundays, Sunday just starts it for the rest of the week. Many of the people that don’t worship inside the sanctuary will jump in a car and turn the radio on and begin to sing every song verse by verse and note for note so as long as it is not Christian music. A true worshipper will worship in spirit and in truth because Christ is inside of them and if Christ is inside of them Christ will come out of them in speech or in song!! Or perhaps people who don’t sing may be to worried about what they sound like or may be ashamed or maybe their hearts just aren’t right with God. In summary worship is a personal matter and it is up to each believer to desire in their hearts to sing to our awesome God. If you measure your worship success through the amount of people singing you risk being disappointed every time they don’t sing. As a worship leader myself I have grown to measure the effectiveness of my leading by the moving of the Holy Spirit! Have a blessed day! Pete
Visit any Church of Christ church. No music, just voices. I don’t know if it’s true for all, but some do not have separate choirs. Everyone sings, the kids know the words! And their are weekly classes for folks to learn. I guarantee that your eyes will become leaky.
After reading several posts from people who worship in the Church of Christ, I have to make this mention… and I must preface my comment by saying this is not meant as criticism, but just for information purposes. Apparently there is more than one type of Church of Christ. My grandparents and several aunts, uncles and cousins worshiped/worship in a Church of Christ. When I first met my neighbor some years ago and was invited by her to visit her Church of Christ, I found it strange that they didn’t use instruments in the church. In fact, she patiently explained to me why she believed it was unBiblical to have instruments in the church. I asked one of my aunts if I was remembering wrong that they had a beautiful piano and organ in the church she attended. She was shocked to learn that there was a Church of Christ that believed it was wrong to have instruments in the church too. I certainly don’t judge your churches for making the choice to use only acapella music. I mentioned before that it is beautiful, worshipful music. I love it when our music director sometimes chooses to stop the instruments and have our congregation sing a verse or more acapella. But I wanted you to know that not all Churches of Christ do their music strictly acapella.
Nothing against Church of Christ (or any other denomination), but I just can’t get a handle on the belief that using instruments in church is unBiblical. There are NUMEROUS references throughout the Bible to instrumental worship and the power and anointing that can be there. Songs without instrumentation can be powerful also, and have their place, but to throw out instruments completely has no Biblical basis that I’ve ever seen. Please… not trying to be offensive… just stating my thoughts as this particular thing has always boggled my mind.
Maybe it’s that they cannot rejoice because they are not forgiven.
This article should be called, “Why I hardened my heart towards God (you quit singing!) because my church doesn’t worship in the way I believe is proper.”
Here is my suggestion. Next Sunday, during your musical portion of the service. Close your eyes (so you are not distracted by what people are doing or not doing around you). Picture the multitudes in heaven surrounding the throne of God. See Christ seated at the right hand of God. Look at his feet, then his hands then look him directly in the eyes, open your mouth and sing to him. Imagine the sound that the multitudes are producing and imagine that your voice blends so harmoniously with theirs that there is no “you” to be heard only one singular voice praising God.
Then let us know how that went.
These are some things that I found to make a difference in evaluating whether your church worship time has become about performance or about guiding people to worship.
1) Offered worship options: We had a “traditions” service that had a baby grand piano and hymnals, “video cafe” had a coffee house setting and contemporary worship style and I went to the “Edge” where the big loud rock band played, sorry Thom that was my preference for worship and in the Edge people sang and danced. =)
2) They didn’t allow songs that had too many performance ranges. Normal people don’t try out for the VOICE so songs should be able to be sang by normal people. The young hip worship leaders always complained because they wanted to perform the newest coolest songs and show off their skills- but that isn’t the point of their job is it?
3) They made sure that songs didn’t get too high or too low in the range; again we aren’t professionals in the crowd.
4) The worship leader led us. I remember being an early Christian and singing words like Yahweh, Alpha, Omega and having no CLUE what I was even singing. But the worship leader would pause and talk about the meaning of what we were singing and point to scripture to show us the purpose and context behind what we were singing. That was powerful.
5) The stage was dark, other than a small light so that the worship team could read their music- there was no light on them. Because it wasn’t a show it was about providing a time and place where people could worship the Lord.
6) Even in the Edge, the music was never louder than the people’s voices.
I love worship. I am one of those over analyzer thinker types. Worship is a time where I feel emotionally connected to God. But it is often ruined when I see right through the curtain to the performance based motive. I didn’t come to church to hear Mumford and Sons performed by the church band, I came to church because in the hustle and bustle of my week I NEED to connect with my Lord.
I think the reason people dont sing anymore is because people dont come to a church for the right reason anymore! Is that the fault of the music, because someone somewhere can find a reason not to praise God because of a song choice?
I attend a Lutheran church (ELCA), that has remained traditional in our music – with a small choir and a piano, not a “worship team”, and EVERYONE IN THE CONGREGATION sings. Joyfully. We fill the sanctuary together with our voices and worship. I wonder what can be ascertained?
I have also been blessed with attending a church where everyone still sings with full voices! We have began to include bands in our worship services and just use the simple accompaniment of one piano, organ or a clarinet or something to lead the singing. We also use the same Psalm Book every week (the 150 Psalms and about 70 Hymns) so the tunes are all very familiar and meaningful. Singing is such an important part of worshipping God – and the most wonderful thing when we can do it reverently, all together, as believers of Him! For those who do not experience this anymore, try a worship ‘revolution’! Pull out those old hymn books like some have suggested and bring God glory with your voices, rather than worshipping the band! God doesn’t mind crackly, false, voices – He WANTS to hear them!
*never begun to include bands
People don’t sing anymore because they don’t know the songs……when I was growing up, we still used hymn books and people (believe it or not) knew or learned to read music, and sang harmony parts and it was beautiful. Now days, churches just do praise and worship songs that not many know, or care about………………Praise songs are o k, but don’t lead the lost to Christ. KEEP THE HYMNS IN THE WORSHIP SERVICE.
Bob, “hymns vs. praise songs” is not the issue. What exactly is a “praise song”? Is it true that old=good and new=bad/shallow? I’m not understanding what you’re trying to say.
And for the record, hymns don’t “lead the lost to Christ.” Music doesn’t do that, period. The Holy Spirit leads the lost to Christ!! It’s interesting that the pragmatic, seeker-sensitive drive of modern evangelicalism is nothing new. It’s always been a problem, as you just showed.
“Praise songs” don’t lead the lost to Christ? Seriously? There are tons of quality, doctrine-filled “praise songs” that lead people towards Christ as much (if not more) than what you refer to as “hymns”. Don’t throw out songs just because YOU are not familiar with them. If you want to learn what psalms, hymns and spiritual songs REALLY are (all of which we should be singing), then check this out: http://www.worshipready.com/item/effective-worship.html
Until recently, I attended a church where the service was blended (part contemporary, part hymns). I could hear the congregation signing most of the time but much was to be desired when it came to the quality of the presentation. Personally I came away from most of those services feeling that I hadn’t experienced much that moved me or helped me spiritually. The mega-church I now attend (and serve in the worship arts area – specifically audio) cranks up the volume, has an awesome band and the worship leader is an award winning singer-songwriter. I am learning new songs and new ways to sing songs i have known for many years. I, and the people around me are singing loudly (even though you can’t always hear them due to the overall volume level), and are really into the worship experience. Not a Sunday goes by but what I am not very moved by the music (and the message). It’s also not just a one time emotional experience. Often throughout the week, I think of a song that stood out and I find myself singing it or I might hear it on the radio and re-connect to what happened that past Sunday. It all comes back to me; the meaning of the songs, the message I heard, etc. I am thankful that my experiences at Watermark Community Church in Dallas, TX do not fit the mold that is presented here by Mr. Shultz.
I am 67 years old and I miss hearing other voices around me singing in worship service. I used to like Christian Radio but now there is little joy in the new music. I find that the lyrics talk more about the person singing than they do about our Savior. Narcissism is not uplifting to the body of Christ. It’s the anointing of the Spirit of God that makes us sing unto The Lord. His Holy presence in a worship service is healing and encouraging. We miss Him if we are spectators and not actively engaged in service to him, which encludes more than music.
I can see where you are coming from on this, but in my opinion, it is a heart matter. David did not care if he looked crazy, he worshipped and danced like a mad man. I would sing to an old hymn or contemporary music. I would sing on an acapella or with a loud music. I would sing if the worship leaders/choir are perfect or not!
Dont look around…
Fix your eyes to the one you came there to worship.
Thank you! YES! What Ray said.
We attend a church that has, both, contemporary and traditional services. To my surprise, my boys, ages 12 and 15, prefer the traditional service. Why? They love singing the hymns!
I go to a church I love very much but song leaders are young and play only new songs, way too loud. It gives me a headache so I just go to church about an hour late. But apon my suggestion the pastor has been introducing old hymns to sing Acapella. I love the old hymns so much this change is like a drink of cold water to me!
It’s totally true! I love to sing but the music is so loud I don’t feel comfortable trying to sing anymore.
Thom
I am on the worship team at a church with contemporary worship and have struggled with this as well. I have yet to come to any conclusion. I do find hope and truth in what you said “I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation”. That is what we as worship leaders should be cultivating. Maybe that is exactly what we should be thinking of when we come up with an arrangement. “Is this arrangement going to evoke heartfelt vocal participation from the congregation”?
That exact thought hasn’t been on my mind most of the time. I wish I could say it was. A lot of the time I just want the arrangement to… sound relevant? New? or maybe emotional?
This is good. Thank you for sharing. We need more conversations like this out there. This really was an eye opener for me. A new perspective on this very important subject .
Hugely flawed argument from someone who has perhaps never been to a concert where everyone sings the ‘anthems’. He should go to Glastonbury and see tens of thousands of ‘spectators’ signing along with ‘professionals’ to ‘blaring’ music.
You may want to ask more questions as to why people aren’t singing.
To have successful worship, one needs:
1. An anointed worship leader not a song leader
2. Anointed music
3. Anointed lyrics
4. Anointed musicians
If the Holy Spirit is allowed to move, and this is key, this will give rise to prophetic music and worship in the Spirit which will convict people of sin and cause spontaneous conversions in the congregation. This will also cause the gifts of the Spirit to come into manifestation.
[Horrors – we don’t want this! And then you have pastors who want to control every moment.]
Apart from these 4 points above you have nothing and that is what you got – a song service. Much of the music I hear especially CCM has no anointing on it. Most vocals have synthesized harmony and pitch correction during performance and mixdown because they can’t sing.Their voice is so unanointed that it needs to be corrected. That is mixing Spirit with flesh. I listened to Joy FM on a trip from New Port Richey in FL to Naples and after one hour of CCM my wife and I had to shut it off off because we did not hear ONE anointed song. All the vocals were pitch corrected and had synthesized harmony. It was so unnatural it was pathetic.
Years ago, we sang the word of God. The word of God is anointed all by itself. We’ve drifted far away from this. Back in those days there were talented musicians and creative lyricists. Those days are gone.
Chet, how does one make this “anointed music” of which you speak?
Anointed musicians led by the Spirit make anointed music naturally…
How does one go about becoming “anointed”? I think I’ve been doing it all wrong.
Chet,
When Abraham went up the mountain to worship (Genesis 22), or when the wise men from the East came to worship baby Jesus (Matthew 2), I don’t recall reading about anointed worship leaders, anointed music, anointed lyrics or anointed musicians.
Might true worship be much more than that?
Great post….you may enjoy some of my comments here on a related church music topic: http://sevennotesofgrace.com/2014/04/17/why-i-prefer-song-leader-to-worship-leader/
Nothing beats the hymns. I agree that it would help to turn down the volume and bring back songs based on Scriptures–that’s more than one verse sung over and over.
Listen to His heart, sing to the Lord all children of the Most High. It isn’t about the noise we make, but the love we show when we but praise! People get discouraged when the situation isn’t just right for them, and I read through most of these comments and heard a resounding theme…and it is this. We rely on other people to create the best atmosphere, give the best advise, and yet we are still unhappy. We say we can’t or won’t sing anymore, and this breaks my heart for all you dear brothers and sisters who feel this way. There is only one God, there is only one Son, and there is only one Holy Spirit. But the thing that we all seem to miss is this, the three work together as one in perfect harmony with one another. They meld together in one perfect and harmonious song continually. Each one sings to the other a new song eternally, and the chords are never broken, never out of step, and joined in perfect sound. Our singing isn’t about us, or how we sound, or what we think, it’s about giving all the glory to our Father who loves us so very much that He asked His only Son to give everything up, just so we would never be separated from Him. When we sing, we sing to the Lord, not to each other. So lift your voice no matter what it sounds like to you, because when you lift your voice in praise, it is perfection to the Lord!! God bless
I totally agree and am saddened by this trend. Seems churches would rather be popular than relate able.
I’ve only skimmed the comments here, I must save this and come back to it. There are some real gems here. Thank you. The article and the comments are very good. One of the things I picked up is a desire to go back to singing the old hymns, someone said they were familiar but here hardly anyone knows the old hymns so it’s better to learn newer songs with carefully chose words and singable music. Thankfully my church has not had to turn down the volume. It’s actually had to be turned up a tad if anything. Many people seem to be unable to relax and worship God through singing. For some of us it is like breathing for others it’s more like a straight jacket. Please continue this discussion. Worship is about much more than singing but singing is part of it and will be part of it in heaven too. I want to know how to encourage people to join in out of worship not out of a sense of being expected to.
Not knowing a hymn does not excuse someone just discarding that old hymn… Like any new song, you learn it, a lot of those hymn are scripturally based
Background – I am an Associate Pastor of a church that uses a “blended” style of worship. And, surprisingly it works. What our church calls hymns are really congregational songs from the past 2 centuries.
Society, along with the church has changed. The downfall of 4-part harmony singing can be attributed to children’s sports and school activities as much as contemporary church music. Families use to stand around the family piano and sing. They don’t anymore. You can also blame rock and roll. Since the 50s, 2 and 3-part harmony have become the norm.
“Spectator set-up. Increasingly, the church has constructed the worship service as a spectator event.” – This is unfortunately true in too many churches. In a former church were I served, I was pulled into the Senior Pastor’s office often on Monday mornings and chastised for not putting on a good show. I wish worship could be done in the round. However, most preachers don’t like this arrangement!
“Professionalism. It seems it’s paramount for church music to be more professional than participatory.” – I partially agree with this point. However, God’s house doesn’t deserve second best. Church musicians should strive to be good so that they don’t distract from worship. Nothing worse than someone singing off-key and loud to distract people from worship. With that being said, the millennial generation may change this viewpoint. Experts say that they desire authenticity more than anything. I have not seen it yet but I’m hoping to see a change.
“Blare. – The musicians’ volume is cranked up so high that congregants can’t hear their own voices, or the voices of those around them, even if they would sing. So they don’t sing “ – This is (mostly) a generational issue. When I was in college ministry over ten years ago, I tried to turn down the volume but the college minister would not let me. The philosophy is this…play it loud so you CAN’T HERE YOURSELF SINGING – just like at a concert. They want it that way. And by the way – they do sing even though they can’t hear the person next to them.
BTW – I once had our sound guy use a decibel meter during a traditional worship service. The organ registered 10 decibels higher than the praise band at the previous service.
“Music choice. – Sometimes people refrain from singing because the songs are unfamiliar, hard to sing, or just cheesy.” – You can blame Christian radio for this one. About every other week I have someone come up to me and say, “Hey, have you heard that new song that they are playing on K-Love? I think we need to sing it next week.” Unfortunately, modern worship songs are written for the radio and not congregational singing. I often lower the key of the song to make it singing friendly for the congregation. We NEED MORE MODERN WORSHIP LEADERS TO WRITE SONGS FOR THE CHURCH AND NOT CCM RADIO!
BTW – those of us who lead traditional worship can be blamed for this faux pas as well. Many times, we pull out obscure hymns that are only known by a few musically educated congregants.
If you’re point is that “I miss 4 part harmony singing” then I get that viewpoint. However, we have to be careful when judging one worship style over another. A majority of the time (not always), it is more about personal preference than right and wrong.
How about church isn’t about YOU!!!!!????? Your singing should be for the Lord…not because the people leading are louder than you and drowning out your own voice. Get over yourself and sing for God’s ears and no one else.
While some of these things may be true sometimes, I’d say people don’t want to take the time to worship. They are too busy, distracted, and really don’t know how to worship.
Our “programmed” services and professional music has made worship almost an impossibility since we plan everything to the minute.
Everyone knows what is going to happen next – 1 song, announcements, 3 more songs, special music or choir, the preacher begins his sermon schedule to last no longer than 45 minutes because people can’t pay attention any longer than that.
We could also have an article about how people don’t read their bible any more either because they hate to read. Or how about one in which people don’t pray. Oh wait, we’re in the last days aren’t we. Were you expecting a worldwide revival? Don’t hold your breath. Things are getting bad, but it’s not over yet.
I actually disagree with this article; maybe it’s just my preference. When I go to churches that don’t have instruments and are primarily just hymns, I see disengaged, apathetic singing. Half of the time the hymns are not even biblically sound and seem to just lament life on Earth, with the only joy to be found in the thoughts of afterlife. Live worship with “rock star” worshippers, freely worshipping God, hands in the air, singing their hearts out, seem like a better example to the congregation of what worship should be like in contrast to a choir of yawning congregants who sing in a droning, obligatory manner. I know that there are some worship services that seem more performance orientated. The focus should never be on the singers, the musicians, or the performance – the focus should be on God. The worship leaders should be trying to engage the congregation and openly talk to them about participation and the importance of engaging in worship to God. I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with loud worship and singers/musicians out in front. Letting the congregation be lead by their fellow congregants, who are worshipping God, obviously putting in a lot of time to put the service together, seems like a good example to the church of people who love God, want to worship Him, and are willing to put in the time and effort (ministry) to do this.
Our church has many good musicians, but lots of people in the congregation tend just to stand and not sing. Why? 1. Music is too loud and we can’t hear each other. 2. Unfamiliar words/melodies 3. Unsingable melodies, 4. Words are ‘I’ centered and express things I don’t feel/think (that day perhaps) as opposed to being “God” centered, expressing eternal truths about God. 5. Too much repetition of the same song, 6. Music is overwhelmingly loud and we can’t hear each other.
>>”I admit. I’ve joined the majority. I’ve stopped singing. I’m not happy about it. I know I should overcome these barriers and just praise the Lord with my very unprofessional vocalizations. But I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation.”
Thom, this is a revealing statement. You’re essentially saying, “I know I should sing (because the Scriptures command it). But I don’t sing because I want the environment to meet my needs, and it doesn’t.”
This is tragic for someone who presumes to provide leadership to churches. Thom, your singing is your act of worship to the Lord and to the believers standing around you (Rom. 12:1). Just as Jesus came not to BE served but to serve, so also it is with us: we come to church not to be served and pleased and entertained, but to serve others. I’d urge you to relinquish your preferences in this area and obey the Scriptures.
YES YES YES!!!! Thank you! As a worship leader, while I acknowledge we can always do things better and have a responsibility to our congregations to do our VERY best to help facilitate an atmosphere of worship, it is NOT “our” job to MAKE you worship. We simply can not. Worship is a choice, regardless of our circumstances. And that responsibly falls on the shoulders of each individual within the Church.
I am a United Methodist pastor and will be preaching about music in worship tomorrow since our choir will be going on vacation for the summer. I am planning a hymn sing with any hymns or praise music the people would like to sing together. BTW I am the guitar player and the choir director and have been singing professionally since I was 16, and love all kinds of music in worship, as long as it is theologically sound and singable.
As I choose songs for every Sunday, I read the words, and see if the music is singable for all. The lyrics are important to pray and sing because they are an expression of the entire congregation’s prayer and song to God. Liturgical worship is the work of the whole church, not a team, or a pastor, or even the individual in the congregation, but the entire church lifting up their prayer and praise. If the church stops singing, then I will stop the music and find something else that all can sing together.
I LOVE all the comments above, even the ones I disagree with, because it is important to keep discussing the mission of the Church to make disciples of Jesus Christ, and corporate worship (corpus meaning Body) is one of the major ways to be filled with the grace of God.
Glenn good stuff. Most people will remember the songs they sung over the sermon message. So very important to ensure the words are appropriate.
I also love those who have shared arguments I don’t agree with as it is extremely important for this discussion to continue in growing depth so we can all learn and be encouraged and stop and think about what we do and don’t do. Let us praise God with our new song every day in whatever form we think He wants us to sing it. But above all let us worship Him.
Pastor Glenn–I belong to a midsize UMC church in a rural (but growing) area. We have the blessing of 3 services-one on radio, one traditional with choir, and one contemporary. Being part of our praise and worship contemporary has been one of the most amazing ways I feel God. We started in 2009, and have grown by musicians (almost all are teens) our service has grown from young families to some in 70’s+. Some stay from previous traditional to praise the music. While most of our team has discussed the “performance not praise issue” we are still working on that balance at times. We have a set list that our congregation has been singing WITH and TO God. When we introduce new music, (most from k-love) we tend to sing it several times for the following weeks. We try very hard to not be anything but praisers who let the Holy Spirit lead us. We also practice it so it sounds like music heard on radio so most know “how they are used to it.
Do we have some who don’t sing? Of course. Some weeks are not as powerful as others. For the most part, however, when God is present you can feel it by the rest of the congregation. Our team is focused on raising our hands to God and I know I may glance out at people, but usually just let music move my soul. I do feel uncomfortable when there is clapping between songs (but that is just my Catholic hymns upbringing), but many times it is just Amen. Many times we will transition by our leader saying what is on her heart.
I must say to the naysayers, go to the musicfest with the teens (creationfest, kingdom bound, winter jam) you will be amazed and awed at this upcoming generation of teens/young adults–they are singing to praise God. They bring friends who I have seen over and over being transformed and giving their lives to Jesus. Contemporary is not for everyone, but we desperately need to keep our next generation coming to church after high school and music praising God is the way into many of their hearts….
I have read most of the comments here and found some gems of wisdom in almost all of them. As I’ve been reading, one song (older contemporary?) has been going through my head. “How great is our God (sing with me) how great is our God. That all may see how great, how great is our God”. Isn’t that pretty much the essence of what our singing in church – and elsewhere as we go about our daily lives – should be? That all the world, including me, can see and be reminded of how great is the God we worship.
I am also bothered by the way we use the word ‘worship’ as if it only refers to singing in our church services. Worship, I believe, includes anything and everything we do with God as our main object. Therefore we should consider the sermon ‘worship’, the offering is worship, greeting our fellow congregants is worship, and even caring for the children in the nursery or children’s programs should be considered part of our worship as we lead His little ones to know how to worship Him too.
Hymns, contemporary music, gospel music… whatever the style, all should be given due respect and used in accordance to appropriateness to the service venue. I like to remind the “hymns only” crowd that much of the contemporary music they say they don’t like is actually taken straight out of scripture and set to music. Many of the old hymns of the faith also have strong Biblical references or even phrases taken directly from scripture. How can we complain about that? I have found it a bit humorous to hear someone say they want the old hymns of the faith, then when asked to cite an example of one of their favorite hymns, they come up with something from the Gaither music. I have to agree that the Gaither’s wrote their music so well that it can be mistaken for much older than it is, but I remember when their music was considered quite controversial as a deviation from ‘real worship’, and we thought it wouldn’t last. Oh how wrong we were! As someone else pointed out, there is garbage among all of the gems and it will be sifted out and not last. We won’t be eternally doomed for having sung some of it in the sifting process.
And.. I think this is my final point… when we look around our congregations and notice people not singing, let’s don’t automatically judge them as non-worshippers. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I know of several in our congregation who would love to sing, but cannot because of a problem with their vocal chords. Several of these have sung in our choir in the past and some have even been great soloists. The same goes for those who choose to sit rather than stand for the music. Sometimes we can visibly see their reasons for not standing, but that isn’t always true. My husband and I used to always stand, but haven’t for over a year now. Both of us have gone through cancer treatments. Even though I am now able to stand, my husband says he can either choose to stand or choose to sing, and given the choice,he prefers to sing. I sit with him so he isn’t sitting alone. I asked another gentleman who always sits and seldom sings – but is intent on the words on the screen and seems to be enjoying the music – why he doesn’t sing. He explained that he has lung problems that are related to his work and can’t sing, but enjoys internalizing the words and music anyway. Others may choose not to sing, because they know they don’t carry a tune well. We can encourage them with the thought that God is not interested in a perfect voice but in the joy of hearing them use the voice He gave them. If they choose to still not sing, we just need to trust that they are worshipping in their own way.
Reblogged this on Artistic Intelligence and commented:
I found this post through a friend of mine. I have found it very intriguing on many levels. While I can certainly concur with Mr. Schultz’s points, I personally believe a big reason for the lack of singing in Church is due to the decline of music education among the public. Perhaps you have your own theories. If so feel free to share your thoughts:-)
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I’d like to invite you to visit Redeemer Presbyterian’s West Side Congregation in NYC. In both the morning and evening services (morning services use classical music and evening services use jazz/R & B), our congregations sing with gusto and are very engaged.
While visiting a Baptist church last year, my impression was that the music director was an actor attempting to show his expertise; he didn’t seem to care if anyone else sang as long as he got the “proper” attention for himself. I was completely “turned off.”
As a senior citizen, I miss the classical hymns, like Victory in Jesus, Power in the Blood, and In the Garden. These are part of our Christian heritage. Most of the contemporary songs won’t last.
I disagree with much of the blog for reasons others have already stated. But I will add a couple statements. Regarding volume: it is almost never an issue with the audio being too loud. It almost always boils down to a style preference. If the music style is not what you like, then the volume is too loud. However, when the music style is to your preference you do not notice the volume. It is mainly seniors who complain about the loud volume. However, put those same seniors at a Gaither Homecoming concert that can run 100+ db and you will see them singing loudly, clapping and raising their hands. Go to the Crystal Cathedral where the pipe organ can also run over 100db and you will see people who complain about contemporary volume singing along with the blaring pipe organ without concern.
Loud music does not discourage singing. Go to any rock concert in the country and you will see people singing with passion at the top of their lungs. The songs are also almost always pitched too high for the average singer but that doesn’t matter. The audience sings passionately.
Let’s get away from the me mentality and just passionately worship our Creator in whatever settings we find ourselves in. There are plenty of churches in the country who offer a variety of music styles. Pick one and worship and let’s not criticize the ones who do it differently.
and… Jesus wept.
Let’s recap all the things we can blame for lack of participation:
Too much musical quality
Too many professional musicians
Projectors — they just ruin it
Modern sound and lighting systems
The chairs aren’t arranged correctly
The worship leaders sing too well
The worship leaders are too charismatic
The worship leaders aren’t charismatic enough
Music is too new
Volume is too loud
You are all trying to clean the outside of the cup. What about the inside? A “church” service should be a gathering of equals, of fellow sojourners trying to encourage each other with stories from their journey. The main events should be story telling, prayer, planning community outreach, and worship — preaching should be very infrequent. What should the worship look like? Worship is not something you do with vocal chords or guitars or pipe organs. What was that exchange with the woman at the well? “Please settle this long-standing argument: Should we worship you on Jacob’s mountain, or on Jerusalem?” Sounds just like “Should we use professional musicians or tone-def volunteers” to me. What was Jesus’ reply? “the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers” So maybe it’s a guitar solo. or maybe it’s perfect vocal harmony, or maybe it’s just standing SILENTLY in awe of the presence of God.
People wonder why the young are abandoning the “institutional church” — I’ll tell you. It’s because true journeyman faith got replaced DECADES ago with tradition and pagentry. Going back to pews and hymnals and choral education would do NOTHING to fix real problems that your faith is facing. Nothing! The reason modern worship exists in it’s current form is that it at least gets butts into chairs — but it is as disconnected from the true faith as was the overhead projector before it, and the hymnal before that, and the accapella before it. You see, people have been “going to church” for a long time purely for ENTERTAINMENT. It should not be a surprise to anyone that churches have adopted all modern musical concert conventions in their “worship experience”. But going back to hymnals won’t fix it. The problem — in my not-so-humble opinion — is that people don’t really know what church should be, and in lieu of that, they pick one that’s more entertaining over less entertaining — completely predictable and normal, not really evil.
“Why aren’t they singing” is completely the wrong question. Where in the Christian mission statement is the goal stated “and make sure that people are singing!” A piano makes a note when you press a key, but doing so doesn’t make it a holy, worshiping piano. Getting people to sing, doesn’t mean the people are any better off. The crux of Christian community is not 15 minutes of corporate singing followed by an offering with 30 minutes of preaching. it’s one person sharing their problems or questions or ideas with another, and having that other reciprocate with encouragement, empathy, compassion, a retelling of an experience that builds the other’s faith. It’s fellow travelers, comparing notes on their journey, investing in each other during the time that they travel together. In the sweetness that ensues from this, people often sing and praise God, as a NATURAL RESPONSE to what they are experiencing. The NATURAL RESPONSE might also be to bask in God’s presence silently, or to grab a guitar and jam. Or sway back and forth. Or to laugh. Or to take a nap. What could be more pleasing to God, our creator, than for us to respond to his presence (“wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of you”) with our own natural response, which supposedly he himself put into us?
Jonathan, of all the comments I’ve read here none has touched my heart as yours did. You have clearly identified the root of this issue. May God continue to bless you with such insights to share with others.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!! Of all I have read in these comments, yours is one of the few that even came close to reality, at least as best I can tell! They seem more apt to put band-aids on it rather than actually ask the right question. I think I know the right question.
From many conversations, asking questions, listening to people speak of themselves, I have discovered that there are many women that come to Church, religiously, because their father’s were Pastors and this was expected of them. They, in turn, nagged their husbands into coming.
The question I think is the “right one”? Are you sure they know why they need to be here? Better yet! Do they even know who they are to worship?
If we cannot answer these questions or are offended by them, maybe we have the cart before the horse, so to speak. In other words, we were working more on betting people TO the Church, not in a working relationship with Jesus Christ, and now they are standing there wondering why we sing these redundant phrases, about someone they know nothing about.
We have failed!
I was loathe to comment on this at all since it doesn’t seem to apply to my church in any way. We sing both current praise songs and traditional hymns which makes our worship quite wonderful. We have a bass player, a trumpet player and a “piano” played by our very excellent lead musician. Almost everyone in the congregation sings except my husband and a couple others because they do not like to sing in the first place. As lead pastor I sing with the musicians because they have asked me too and because in the eyes of our congregation I am the worship leader. I lead worship in all its aspects. And maybe thats why I decided to comment.
I grew up in the church with a father who was a pastor and an accomplished musician. I’ve sung in choirs, ensembles and as a soloist. Music touches my soul like nothing else does. I see and hear music everywhere. However not until the past seven years have I ever considered the music of the church “worship” and the rest of what we do in church, “something else”. As the pastor I lead the worship service: praising, praying, hearing God’s Word, sharing in His holy gift at the Lord’s Table and faithfully offering ourselves to God’s service. I was taught this was all worship. While I appreciate many of the author’s comments and other suggestions in the comments section it truly makes me sad that the church seems to have lost its way somewhere along the way when it comes to the act of worship.
I’ve been in ministry for over 25 years and spent the entire of my life in the church (which I realize makes me the minority and maybe even a kind of dinosaur) and I think the greatest need in the church is a worship that inspires us to serve God in whatever way God calls. Being comfortable, entertained and enjoying this song or that song seems far less important than working together to feed a world that is starving for God.
We worship God best by serving him with our best.
I totally disagree with this article. Our church Epic church Ministries is a vibrant church that is in full swing with the worship team. We are true worshippers that give our all to the Lord. Every one of us is in tune with the music and we have an awesome music ministry as a full spirited congregation.
In our church we use nothing but a hymnal and have absolutely no one leading the songs and no one sings. So what is the answer?
Visit your local Church of Christ and copy what they do.
I’ve sung in church since I was a child, and I’m 67 years old, still singing in the choir. I love that my church still has a choir. Many have abandoned choirs along with the organ. That’s a pity. When the choir is eliminated, many people lose an opportunity to use their talents to help lead worship and encourage congregational participation. We also have the ensemble out front who help strengthen the choir. I don’t have a problem with that. In fact, it gives me more confidence to sing out because we never have the music before us, only words on a screen, and if I’m not quite sure of the notes in a particular part of the song, I can follow their lead. But I must confess that some of the praise songs we sing are a mystery to me. I can’t find the melody! I asked a worship leader and songwriter once why I had such a hard time finding a melody that made sense in a lot of the contemporary p/w choruses and why hymn melodies seemed so much easier to hear and follow (aside from the fact that hymns are more familiar.) He said that in most cases the lyrics to hymns were written first and followed a theme, delivering a particular message. Later, someone put those words to music and the melody was the focal point to convey the message. Harmonies were added last. However, many of the new p/w songs begin instrumentally. Someone comes up with a beautiful chord progression that he/she wants to use and he/she puts words to it, which could account for the repetitiveness and difficulty in hearing and following melodies. The songs make more sense instrumentally than chorally. Though I sing and play the piano, I sometimes give up on trying to sing certain p/w songs because the melodies are so evasive, and excessive repetition becomes tiresome. (However, even if the p/w chorus is new, I can learn and sing it quickly if it has a singable melody.) So, love to sing as I do, I find myself (when in a congregational setting…not the choir) one of those standing there mute waiting for a song I can actually sing. I never REFUSE to sing just because I don’t like a particular style of song…it all has to do with whether I actually CAN sing it. I believe there are many like I am out there who are in the same boat.
Worship is a natural love response to the God who loves us. It comes from the heart. I worship God sometimes when I am overwhelmed by a glimpse of who God is. Often that happens in church and often while I’m singing. In my most profound worship moments, I have been unable to speak, broken, my spirit sending gratitude to the Father. I have worshipped in a lot of churches, but I can’t speak authoritatively about what was in the hearts of those around me. At times it has seemed that they–and I–were just mouthing the words, old hymns and contemporary worship. Sometimes we sounded like we were singing ourselves to sleep, especially with those hymns in which we are singing sermons, or doctrine, to ourselves. I’m not much into those. My concern is not whether we are singing but whether we are worshiping in spirit and in truth. There is no formula, no tradition or innovation that automatically produces “better” worship. People who like different styles can be critical of other styles. David knew how to worship, and it started in his gut, and at least once, he danced before the Lord with all his might. It’s good to think about these things and seek to go deeper because I think we have only scratched the surface and only have a vague understanding of what is happening in Revelation when angels and saints worship God day and night.
I come from a musical family, many of whom attend a “mega-church”. I was shocked to learn that if the singer/guitarist/vocalist can’t come, they let “a ringer” PRETEND they are playing and singing. They play a “track”, everyone lip syncs and plays air guitar. A brother who is also a fine guitarist, was dismayed to be part of this illusion. I too remember the Bible verse “Make a joyful noise unto the Lord”, and I don’t think it meant canned.
I think the “problem” is that worship leaders introduce too many songs at a time. The issue is not whether we SHOULD be singing certain songs. Rather, it’s that people aren’t given enough time to learn the new songs, because a new one is introduced so frequently. We are admonished to sing a new song to the Lord, and quite frankly, there are some incredible new songs these days. I want my children to know the new as well as the old “quality hymns” that teach doctrine. But to say that it’s because of all the factors listed might be pushing it a bit. I honestly think it’s because people aren’t given the chance to become familiar with the songs. And, if people really want to learn the songs….most of them have a computer on which you can google the song in question, and practice it. Many churchgoers are lazy and don’t want to put any more effort than they “have to” on Sunday morning. That is a generalization, of course…
I kept saying, YES, as I read this. Excellent article and so true to this era. I absolutely loved a local church. The Pastor does such a great job. But I found their praise and worship difficult to sit through. They would dim the lights and I felt like I was at a rock concert. It is almost impossible to sing along because the “performers” ad lib so much while singing. I found myself wanting to leave and then return when he started preaching. I don’t blame the church, it is my own hang up.
I’m sorry but I don’t think we have any validaty to speak against tjis type of worship because what you were introduced to some years ago growing up seems to be what you want now. The future of the church is the youth in the church and what reaches them is also teaching them a passionate and intimate worship with our savior. The Holy Spirit is having his way in this type of worship which tells me it is like a sweet fragrance to God. Grow up be a mentor for the younger generations be available to Jesus so Jesus is available to them. This is not your service it’s God’s service. If you think people are not singing who are you looking at?
I agree 100% in this timely article.
I think Mr. Schultz is on target with his ideas as to why congregations do not participate in the singing as much as they used to. But others have hit on what I think might be as big of a reason for the lack of enhusiasm shown by most congregations these days, which is the practically total abandonment of the good old hymns. Once in a blue moon, our music leaders will insert an old hymn in the program and all of a sudden, despite the fact that the rythm will be adapted to the prevalent rock related style now required by the guitar/drums-centered worship bands, the entire congregation will suddenly come to life and join the singing with newfound vigor and enthusiasm. It is inspiring to see and hear this reaction by the congregation however, it seems not to be seen or heard by the worship leaders since it does not affect the frequency of hymns used during the praise and worship period at all.
I personally don’t care for the performance style at my church; I long to return to someone LEADING us in worship, not a band performing for us.
Someone earlier suggested lowering the volume, but I am more likely to sing loudly if I think others cannot hear me (and if I cannot hear myself).
And lastly, most (not all) songs sung at church seem to be in a key that I’m not able to sing. I try to sing with the harmony singers, but many times I can’t hear them.
I suggested lowering or eliminating the amplifiers, not necessarily the volume. With a hymn, I like to start at a medium volume to encourage the shy singers. Get a bit louder in the second verse, and when everyone is comfortable, lower the volume for the third first so that they can hear each other singing (By this time, they keep going!) Fourth verse pull out all the stops (or just add fuller chords and more volume on the piano) and the roof rings! This can be done with just me playing a piano, controlling the volume as needed. Or we can do this with acoustic instruments and moderately amplified electrical instruments. We have one electric bass, electric guitar and two acoustic guitars. flute, violin, organ piano, keyboard, but they only play some services. The main technical goal is to control the volume as needed to encourage the congregation to sing in praise of God. The harmony parts are loud enough to hear from several of our choir singers who will lead. We have a bass and tenor, I sing alto, and a songleader that sings the melody. The hymns/songs are selected with the message in mind.
Maybe it’s because they’re not attending church to begin with. It’s all a show.
The good thing is you can sing for God anytime. I usually sing in the car. But, it is too bad that churches feel they have to compete with “entertainment”. Aren’t they supposed to be teaching Gods word?
I admit I can’t carry a tune but love to sing, but refuse to sing in church any more after a choir member said, in church, “Boy, I’m sure glad you’re not in the choir!” That after “make a joyful noise” was preached but only if you are a professional singer.
Shame on that choir member. Don’t be discouraged. Keep singing.
Hello all,
As a young person in the church I have a different opinion to offer as to why many people do not sign in worship. While the factors listed above are probably true to some extent especially with not knowing the words I don’t believe that they are the main issue here. I believe that it is a fear of judgement from fellow church goers. Having been in a tight-knit youth group in and open door church I heard friends tell me that they don’t feel comfortable singing in the service. When I ask why, I am told it’s because they just feel like their voice would ruin it for those around them. What the interesting thing is though, they will sing in our youth-group worship sessions.
I believe the reason most will not sign anymore is because of how judgemental many people in the church have become, and also the fact the many of us just do not know the members in our church.
I don’t know if this made any sense to you, but I hope it offers a different opinion.
Thank you
Matthew, I believe that you have an excellent point. Sadly, we are still a judgmental society (even when we strive not to be)
I have enjoyed reading all the comments here about the why’s and why not’s of singing in church. I enjoy all the music as we worship. I love the traditional hymns, but I also love the “new” contemporary hymns. I sing not because it’s required or preferred but because I praise Him. Some songs move me more than others, but still I sing. Do I care that my seat mate is not singing? No. Perhaps the song moved them so deeply that their thoughts are in prayer. Maybe the song is new to them and they are hearing the words and absorbing the meaning. Maybe this is their first time coming to church and they are finding their way to sing in praise. Do people raise their hands in praise because the person in front of them did so or because the words led them to praise Him? Should we sing out in praise of He whom we came to worship? Absolutely, but I have a hard time thinking that because someone isn’t singing is a reflection of the musical worship going on. For some that may be the reason, but there is also a multitude of reasons why people are not singing.
Why do we go to Church? To be seen by others? Because we feel it’s the right thing to do? Or to worship God and his Son, to be reminded that it is His Grace and His Mercy and His love that guides us, renews us? Your worship style is predicated on what you feel comfortable with in your relationship with our Father.
Sometimes…when I am listening to music and I feel like God is talking to me, I don’t want to interrupt the blessing that I am receiving. Just because I am not singing does not mean I am not worshiping.
I am a worship leader and I love to hear feedback like this. It helps us all to grow. I believe we all have a common end goal and that’s what I’ve always been passionate about. Singing songs in a way that glorifies God in heaven and edifies the body of Christ. I’d love to make a suggestion that is not in anyway my original thought but is something that works well for our church. Hymns are familiar because people have sung them for a long time so we have tried to take a more intentional approach to how we introduce our contemporary music. Instead of picking music entirely on theme, have a list of 20 songs and stick to these 20 songs for 6 months. This forces us to repeat a lot of the same music and gives people the opportunity to really learn the songs. Pick the list based on good theology, then all of the songs are worth singing. I truly believe this could help get people to song more. Also having your worship leader teach a little bit about the song the first time you sing it will give the worshippers a deeper understanding why the song has been chosen. Thanks!
It is in our nature to desire that our church experience be what we prefer, which usually equates to what we grew up with. It is because of this presumed need to hold on to traditions that we earn a reputation for being stodgy and dated, while the church becomes culturally irrelevant to the coming generation. While we should never compromise the true purpose of the church or the message of salvation that we are charged to keep, we must be willing to let go of what we have always identified with as a “proper” church service so that we can, as Paul expressed, become relevant to all people. Traditions are nice, but they narrow the effectiveness of the presentation to the dying minority (figuratively and, eventually, literally). Today’s new church goer has a shorter attention span, a different taste in music, isn’t as familiar with the Bible or Christianity from extra-church influences, and is very much consumer-minded. To reach them, we must become relevant to them. And it is paramount that we reach them. And all of this comes from the heart of a “church singer.”
Although, I understand these reasons, I believe we’ve completely missed the main reason why people don’t sing in church anymore. All of the reasons stated above are selfish. We have made worship about ourselves and how we “feel”. Maybe the real reason why people don’t sing in church anymore is because they don’t know what they’re singing for. Have you been forgiven? Have you been saved from eternal damnation by a loving savior who gave himself for you? Have you been plunged in the mercies of His grace and love daily? Are you in complete and total awe that the creator of the universe would come to this earth to purchase you? Then, that is reason enough to shout out praises with all your heart no matter the song choice, the volume, or what someone else looks like on stage.
I recently heard a lead pastor [who is also the worship leader] say, “Everyone is worthy to worship, but not all are worthy of a mic.”
For him, ‘worship’ as a noun [not a verb] had become the “thing” he wanted his church to be known for.
I like Matt Redman’s view on worship…”I’ll bring you more than a song…’cause it’s all about You, Jesus.”
well said Mr. Jeff Michaels.
Music in church is also not the only part of worship in a service.
There’s an easy way of dealing with this: get rid of the weekly “Liturgical Idol” competition (brought to you by your Ryan Seacrest-esque worship leader) altogether. Which do you think has more punch that fires the blood for praising God in worship: some weird, creepy, amorous-stalker themed, guitar based, two bit, dime a dozen, power chord driven drivel from Hillsong United or “My sin, oh the bliss of this glorious thought! My sin, not in part, but the whole, is nailed to cross and I bear it no more, praise the Lord, praise the Lord oh my soul*”? (*taken from the work of Horatio G. Spafford in the hymn “It is Well with My Soul.) When I was a child I worshipped as a child, understood worship in a child-like way, and reasoned about worship in a child-like manner. When I became a man I put away the VeggieTales coloring book and picked up a hymnal, stood shoulder to shoulder with my brothers and sisters in Christ and belted out praise in whatever key the good Lord afforded our voices. Here’s the chorus from a born again Belieber-style Hillsong shanty called “Alive”:
Cause You are, You are, You are my freedom
We lift You higher, lift You higher
Your love, Your love, Your love never ending
Oh oh oh
….Sorry….back now…..the nausea was too great and the trash can too far. To quote the comedian Tommy Tiernan: ” you couldn’t hang your coat on that, nevermind your soul.” The hippy dippy praise band of pubescents is as distracting as the moneychangers in the temple in the way that they virtually block the congregation from being a part of the worship themselves. Since when did we ever need a worship leader, eh? Oh wait, now I remember, it’s because we’ve been going towards this for years and now the kids are running the circus; enter the ringmaster stage (literally) left. I remember when worship was reverent, not some cacophany of Rockband Eagle Scouts disturbing the the quiet, reflective time people took to prepare their hearts for worship. Keep in mind it is only by the grace of God that the curtain in the temple was torn; we should tread there with reverence and fear. Lest anyone think this rant to be formulated by some crusty old pew potato, I’ll say this: I am 23, raised in the Methodist, Presbyterian and Anglican churches, the last of which is what I cling dearly to, and I think that worship such as what is found in our good old hymnals is as valid and relevant as it’s ever been. ‘Murica.
I would add that often worship leaders are trained tenors or sopranos…which can lead to selections that fit an atypical vocal range. Most men are baritones or T2s, while most women are mezzos. Even as a trained baritone, keeping up with a worship set constantly at the top of my range (or almost beneath it, if I drop an octave) is just physically taxing. Sure, I can harmonize, and I do…but there again, I’m trained. If the congregation is going to be mostly on the melody, it’s wise to transpose to a place they can sing without needing to belt or growl to find a melody line.
For me, thie real issue is that much of the contemporary music does not point to the cross, to what Christ has done and continues to do for us but, instead, it points to what we do, what we are, etc. It comes across to me as a production, a rock concert. Take me to the cross, let me sing the psalms and the old hymns. Something beautiful happens when all us off key singers sing praise, it sounds beautiful if you know what to listen for.
im surprised to hear this seems like a problem with in your church because i go to a very large church and we have a full band microphones and loud music the words are displayed on the screen if you dont know the song and i and the rest of the people enjoy singing songs of praise to our god and when i look around i see every one with smiles on there face and singing their hearts out so please dont say that churches with loud music and micophones and newer songs are the problem cuz its not because i have never seen people more compassionet about siniging praises to god then my church
I think the style of music is the least of anyone’s worries in a Church. There are more important things to worry about and work on correcting…. like church leaders who are living a double life of unrighteous behavior at home, gossipers, those that teach false doctrines…. these are the things that are destroying churches, not the music style.
I’d like to offer a suggestion: Perhaps it’s better we take a break from “musical” worship altogether. Tell me, how often do you praise your wife or your job or the weather through song? It’s not how people normally praise things these days.
I don’t usually sing during church because music isn’t how I primarily think about praise in the first place. Modern church programs teach the opposite, that the musical program before the sermon is an essential component towards being “the church”. People then confuse “singing” with sprituality, and confusion is always bad.
Additional Note: Worship is useless if it is not *self-expression*. While this might sound new-agey, it’s really the core of worship if you think about it. I am not, and have never been a person to primarily express myself through song. The church needs to explore other avenues altogether for people to express their awe and love towards God.
Mark, one significant problem with that: there are several NT passages that explicitly state that the gathered church should sing. It’s not up to us to decide how we should worship primarily based on how we feel about it.
1 Cor. 14, Eph 5, Col. 3, the Psalms galore… Even God Himself sings over us (Zeph. 3:17). We don’t have the option to not sing.
Great points Thom! Turn the music down!
What about only singing the Psalms? Some churches practice exclusive psalmody without instruments. Here are some resources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_psalmody and https://www.crownandcovenant.com/
does god fancy spot lights or reverence to Him?
Isn’t colorful spot lights and rock music of the world?
Is God following the trend of this world?
Do not conform to this world.
God sees our hearts? My people praise Me with lips service but the heart is afar.
What does God wants of our worship?
Satan has corrupted the worship service.today.
I have said it before, and I will say it again, MOST church services today are NOT worship services, they are talent shows. I make FEW exceptions to my statement. The piece makes my point better than I can. WORSHIP is not about TALENT, the pretty young girl holding the mic, or the handsome college-age guy with the great voice. Now, putting such people up to sing a solo is fine! But when the service becomes about talent, it is no longer worship. Loud music is not worship, hymns are to be sung as almost a prayer, and the mind is to be focused on our Lord. In the church I spent most of my early years (age 17 to 30) the songleader sang not much better than the rest of us – and the lesson here was that ALL can sing unto the Lord. The church has not progressed, it has become worldly and fleshly and fake. I wish I’d wrote that.
With all due respect Thom.
Please take a moment to read “How To Worship A King” by Zach Neese. Then participate in worship at any Gateway campus or online at http://www.gatewaypeople.com.
I am convinced your mind will be challenged if not changed.
Unless of course this is not your real opinion, just a chance to sensationalize for the purpose of publicity.
May God bless you to live a more excellent life,
Loren
With all due respect Thom.
I would encourage you to read “How To Worship A King” by Zach Neese. It will shed magnificent light on the spiritual challenge to worship.
Then participate in a worship service at any Gateway campus or online at http://www.gatewaypeople.com.
I believe those two things will demonstrate a different reality than many of your commenters have displayed so far.
You might notice there is seldom a line for lunch on Mothers Day at McDonalds like there is at Olive Garden.
I am currently a lay musician in the local church I attend, playing drums (an electronic set) in the rhythm section. I am also a guitarist, a singer, and a song writer…
Down through the years I have been in many camps, chiefly Baptist churches.
I can remember the 1960’s- the decade the drum set showed up in the sanctuary, and back then (especially for the Baptists) it was a controversial instrument to consider as part of a worship service.
New music of the 60’s was being written by various artists that would appeal to youth and the songs coming out during that time, by today’s standards, were actually quite conservative, incorporating percussion and guitars.
Yes, the church was adapting to a new generation of believers with a different set of musical values, and the ministers of that decade were wise enough to realize many of the new songs were meaningful, inspirational, and scripturally sound. The music was not offensive, it was godly and it was energetic, and it added a bright new perspective of fresh compositions to the liturgy of worship.
Rhythmic orientation was beginning to find a place in a setting where, for many years, melody and harmony were regularly preeminent.
Our current disposition of controversy, as it relates to protocol and format, is similar to our standing of the past in that- there WILL ALWAYS BE multiple opinions to sort through regarding how worship is to be conducted according to methodology (Bible versions, congregational involvement, musical styles, modes of execution, etc.).
Here comes my two cents worth of opinion on the matter: I believe our churches should allow the Holy Spirit to guide every facet of service involved in the dissemination of truth, using, obviously, the Bible as our guide to accommodate people from all walks of life who collectively gather to focus on the Lord, excluding none. No one should be left out there in the dark when it comes to acceptable styles and ritual and no one should be set up to be offended, for we are all a part of God’s creation, diverse, though we may be, by virtue of our individual exclusive tastes. Yet, we must remember, Church is not individual, it is collective.
I believe this is why many churches today have a traditional and a separate contemporary worship service schedule available for the purpose of reaching- ALL men. The church I attend offers such a structure, but guess what, I don’t even think that’s scriptural! To me, that is telling the world we are divided, and the one service good for one believer is perhaps not good for the other. God is not something to one type of man and something else to another, He is immutable and constant without any variance to any man- the same, forever and always.
So naturally, when it comes to music, there will always be conflicting attitudes existing in a large band of individuals as to how it should be delivered, what types of instruments should be used, what types of cadences are acceptable, and the list goes on (and on, and on, and on)- does it not?
As far as instruction and solution are concerned…
what we must bear in mind primarily is the immediate effect music has on our emotions, our spiritual psyche, our thoughts, even our actions. Music is not amoral and it sets the stage and preaches to us in its own way, mysteriously somehow, by its very presence- wafting through the air, landing on our ear drums, even causing us to move with it! Music is automatically spell binding. I was at a Bible study in Dallas one evening and the bass guitar was hitting a frequency I could actually feel below my waistline, with vibrations! I didn’t feel too particularly close to the Lord at that moment, needless to say. DO NOT underestimate the power of music, its significance, its proper and improper place, and the necessity of rightly discerning the types of songs allowable to the adequacy of acceptance.
As for the platform of deliverance and for all those who deliver, also consider- the setting (God’s place), and what should done (rightful by all, to all), and how it should be done (in the right spirit).
There will always be musicians in our midst seeking their own glory, attempting to fulfill their own carnal needs, using the platform during services to draw attention to themselves, due their gifts. It is very difficult for some people to transform themselves by the spirit of humility when they are expected to perform, for performance requires self-confidence, projection, and concentration, without which, a musical piece can be delivered half-heartedly and haphazardly.
So, the questions we must ask ourselves are- are we moving ourselves towards God or away from Him, is this a viable song that helps us in our walk with the Lord or is it just another work of fake hype to put everyone in some kind of an empty religious stupor?
Shame on all those who have turned our churches into Pop Shows! Shame on the Entertainers who seek to glorify themselves! Shame on all of those who allow so-called Christian songs (that are more carnal than much secular music) to be a part of a church service! Shame on all those who condemn contemporary music yet find it totally acceptable to allow Country oriented, knee slapping, peppy quartet music in their services. Shame on all those who find solace in super sentimental trance-like balladry, sugar-coated and syrupy-soft-like works of boredom, closing their eyes and saying “Jesus” over and over and over again, really? Give me a break, man!
Much of our “accepted” music in the church today is not worth a single second’s moment of consideration when it comes to good lyrical and musical writing, compositions insulting to any thinking man and vainly delivered.
Now, are you as confused as I am? Is it not easy to see there are complexities involved here? Remember this, God is not the author of confusion, let all things be done decently and in order.
I believe our services should contain a blend of elements that compliment and parallel the Christian life of experience (giving, suffering, rejoicing, fasting, praying, witnessing) honoring God (the Creator, the Holy One, Redeemer, Savior, Judge) with respect to ALL men from ALL walks of life with music that is- high and holy, sacred and spiritual, energetic and rejoicing, traditional and contemporary, slow and fast, meditative and thoughtful, introspective and extroverted, as all things to all men within the boundaries of COMMON SENSE, for the Lord surely has given us the Spirit of understanding and the spirit of discernment to know how we should conduct ourselves in His vineyard with the right material delivered in the right way, o ye vessels of praise, stewards of the Word and song!
Has anyone out there written a good song here lately? Has anyone tried to perform one?
There are ‘chiefly’ five reasons people do not sing along during a church service:
1). They are either lost, or backslidden.
2). The music does not measure up to an acceptable godly standard of praise.
3). They do not like to sing, period.
4). They are physically hindered.
4). Some, or all of the above.
Psalm 150
Monty May
I attend a church with over 1000 weekly attendance who still sing plenty loud every Sunday. We apparently buck the norm.
Interesting read. I agree with some of your points in the article, although I’m not entirely convinced that most people are disengaged. On the contrary, I would say that some/most enjoy a more laid back environment where they don’t need to worry about the lights being on (awkwardly looking around at each other) and being heard singing by their neighbor because it’s so quiet. As a worship leader, I can say that it is difficult to balance a lot of different variables in the overall worship experience (for both the worship team and the congregation) but I think it’s important to sing culturally relevant music in a culturally relevant style. Though I will say I am still a sucker for hymns. I think a lot of the distractions come from the people who are leading the music.. If the heart of worship they are reflecting isn’t one of authenticity, then the spirit of worship will not be reciprocated by the congregation.
Couldn’t disagree with the article more.
The problem isn’t technology, lights, the worship leader or the pastor. The problem is the people. We have lost a generation of worshipers. Our church has the lights and the cameras. I’m no rock star and I don’t think anyone thinks that I am.
Our church worships like there is no tomorrow. It’s not a show, it’s not “Self
expression” and it’s not a concert. This article sounds more like a critique of modern worship and is very judgmental. There are some valid points but I think you are throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Singing hymns to a piano in a small church does not make it true worship, nor does a large church with a loud sound system. Worship is no respecter of persons, cultures or styles.
Don’t stereotype churches that have lights and a louder sound system.
Then you need to come to our church in Florida. We still have Redback Hymnal singing in the choir. Also congregation singing with the choir. Welcome to come visit anytime. Thanks.
I think there can be a balance between a more contemporary style and lyric of worship that is relevant to today’s culture, coupled with an appreciation of our rich heritage found in hymns. My concern is that today’s “worship” is very me-centric. Read the lyrics of what we’re singing and there’s very little “I worship You, Almighty God” (actually worshipping God rather than singing about Him) and a lot of “here I am to worship” (singing about the act of worship). The Millennial Generation – which is penning many of the songs we sing in church – has been referred to as the “Me” Generation. Wonder why? http://garystripling.com/blog/?p=222
No, the “Me Generation” is the Baby Boomers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation
I agree with Seth. Let’s all get honest and admit that everything said here is based on personal taste and personal experience. There is no “one right way” to worship, except in Spirit and in truth. Can we stop bickering, judging, and posturing now…please?
the individual who wrote this article was right I believe that if there was less loudness and music and more leading with the hymnal and giving them something to read instead of being up on the screen we would not be of the world we would be in God’s world and allowing the Holy Spirit to do what he needs to do during the service and not what we think is right
Here’s your first problem; Your first comment was that you were “looking around”. Did you forget where your focus should be? Herein lies the real problem. Your focus should have been on worshipping God, not looking around. The real “problem” is focus. If you would have been focused on the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, I guarantee you would never even know what anyone else was doing. Congregational staring is caused by people who are there to watch and not worship, in which case, they’re not there for the right reason, anyway. As for the loud music…if you’re uncomfortable with loud worship, you may want to skip Heaven because IT WILL GET LOUD there.
I believe, as a praise band musician; that the comments in the article are only partially true. Why? How long does it take a person to learn the words to there favorite secular song? I believe it not to be in the volume, nor unfamiliar songs (perhaps at first, but not perpetually), maybe even with distaste for a song. Mostly I believe it is in the fact that the ONLY time most people hear praise and worship music is on Sunday, because many don’t listen to it by choice during the week, and therefore have “Never heard that song before” The ONLY thing that hinders worship for person is… they themselves. Worship is an attitude of expectancy. If you don’t bring it with you to church; you likely won’t find it there
All interesting perspectives, but have we forgotten that out of the overflow of our heart comes the joy and desire to worship our God. If our attitude when we come to worship is one of wanting to connect our spirit with his spirit then who cares about the music! It’s not the worship teams responsibility to make it happen for me, I choose to worship.
Thanks for your thoughtful post. You make some excellent observations. I actually just wrote an article that touches on this on my blog. If you have a chance, please take a look and leave a comment with your thoughts. I would love to know what you think. Thanks!
http://364daysofthanksgiving.com/isnt/
Thom I am a 52 year old Worship Pastor, Worship Leader, Lead Worshiper, Music Minister or whatever you want to call it these days. I have the privilege of leading a multi-generational congregation in praise and worship each week along with our choir, band and worship team. We have great audience participation but you can never please everyone.
This is about the third or fourth very similar article that have seen on this over the last several months. I know that your intentions are good but people are sharing this article on their Facebook pages and using it as a battering ram to gripe and complain about what they think is wrong with church music today. The comments that are listed here are just a small sampling of what is going on Facebook pages and Twitter. Some of the comments here and on these other pages have been mean spirited and hateful. People are using your article to promote their own preferences with an “I told you so” attitude. I realize that you cannot control that but please for the sake of us guys who do this week in and week out and have to look these people in the face, think twice before sharing this kind of stuff.
Most of us already know about the problems that you listed and are doing what we can to overcome them. I am sorry that you “have stopped singing” and hope that you can find the right place where you feel comfortable. As for me, I hope I never lose my hallelujah or my reason to sing.
I’m 66 years old and retired professional. However, I’m a musician and have played in the church setting since my teens. I used to play for a worship team for a number of years. My piano style varies from traditional to contemporary to jazz and my preferences for worship music range from hymns to contemporary to gospel so I can relate to most age groups…. Yet, I’ve said time and again, if people have time to nit pick every service then they’re not worshipping God because you can’t do both simultaneously. Currently I’m in a new church nearly 2 years now I went through the orientation classes so the leadership is aware of my musical ability (I don’t want to play every Sunday, but I don’t want to be put out to pasture either seeing as Dave Brubeck played piano into his 90s as did Marian McPartland jazz pianist) I loved playing in church but yet no one has asked me and I will not presume on anyone yet I’m frustrated because I’m willing to play maybe once a month or fill in so others can take a break
The church I attend is N W Bible church and previously Pathway of Life don’t have such a problem. The rafters resound as members worship. Travis Jones is worship leader at NWBC in N. Dallas. While Kelly James leads at PWOL in Pleasant Grove.
Good thought!
I am a pastor of a contemporary church and I agree that participating in worship is key to honoring Jesus. Please REMEMBER that old school church with song books were mostly dead and boaring. It got old! Many modern churches have just become equally boaring and predictable. Lets be honest new and fresh doesn’t happen easily in church. If its not fresh it won’t inspire.
While I love contemporary, I still love to pull out those old standards such as “Come Thou Fount” or “This Is My Father’s World” now other traditional songs like “I Come To The Garden Alone” are beautiful but people like me live in condo highrises unlike the old wooden early American houses with gardens like my grandparents lived in. We have a very active generation of new comers that we hope will carry on the ministry after we’re gone………
I honestly think this is a poorly written article that took a problem in some churches and blamed it on the people who use their gifts and talents to give their best back to God. Upon reading this article, not much research was done, and the loss of the main issue was never mentioned, you come to church to worship Jesus not focus on the music.
what I have noticed is the type of music is not the problem . It is the constant flow of new songs the congregation does not know. When a song the people have heard before is sung many join in..that is why the hymns seem so much better. Too many times worship leaders try to be top forty singers leading the congregation in what ever the latest song on Christian radio is. If the leaders would stop adding so many new songs and let the congregation sing songs more than once or twice maybe more people would join in
I don’t know who decided that “new songs” should be introduced in every service when the congregants are struggling to learn the new one from last Sunday… the majority of congregants should be comfortable singing worship songs before another one is introduced
Try worshiping with a congregation whose music is only a capella. Lots of churches of Christ still sing congregational a capella.
Churches that do entire worship services a capella with talented and gifted musicians in house send the message that “you’re not needed” then they complain when the gifted musicians leave the church for the secular venue
Solution: Visit your local Church of Christ. We sing A Cappella and sing songs everyone knows. Biblically based preaching, great singing, and a heart for the lost.
…and baptismal regeneration.
I have also been in church choirs since I was a child…and thank God everyday we still have a full choir in our church.
The tune should be catchy, something you can hum around the house or on your way to work or school…. Too many lyrics with an unfamiliar tune coupled with offbeat syncopation making it too much work to even try to sing……….
As someone who spent a lifetime in different churches and the better part of 9 years on the stage behind a mic (you know, one of those guys you want to hide from view) I’d like to think I have a fairly decent perspective on this issue. While I’ve had people comment on the style of music (pro and con) more times than I can count (mostly pro because we intentionally mixed it up and did our best to sing “singable” songs), I believe you are missing an important factor here. The issue could be with the crowd, not the band.
Anyone who has ever been to a concert has been immersed and surrounded by umpteen thousands of people singing in at all volume levels and with all manner of skill levels – without ANY qualms. There is exactly zero reticence with these folks. Then there are the group who are content to just listen and enjoy the music. We saw much the same thing in our church, in about the same percentages.
People who are into the music and the moment could not care less what anyone else is doing or if they even know the words. They just emote. Others just get lost in the music without singing.
But if you are in a church where most people are just standing around, there could be several reasons. Sure, the music could be vapid crap, but the issue may also be with the people. Much like people who get dolled up to be seen at church, folks who are so concerned about how they sound that they don’t sing are doing it for the wrong reasons anyway. Folks just need to get over themselves.
i dont like going to church in the dark andi dont like it because they are trying to please the world and stead of god. i used to go to night clubs but we are children light not darkness. i love the lord and i want to please him. my husband and i are looking for a church but every church that we have tryed out so far they turn all the lights down and they are putting on light shows smoke. i dont believe that it is god at all .i think they are trying to see how many people that they can get in the service an stead of pleaseing are christ jesus.
Sadly, frustratingly true
My belief is it all comes down to the individuals relationship with God overall, not just a Sunday worship time. I have gone to church with A Capella singing and now one with a band. In both scenarios I have no problem singing because of Who I am singing to. Same with how I approach a Bible Study, communion, the sermon, etc. So until the relationship with God is fixed I don’t believe it would matter what you did with the worship service. I worship with Christian radio stations every day of my life. It is the lifestyle I choose to have which is striving to put God on the throne each day.
Church music went south when they took out the hymnals. Most people can read a basic melody and having something in their hand gives something to focus on if they’re unsure of the melody–at least the words are there. Churches are trying to teach people new music (that has no logical form and is usually the random strumming of the worship “leader”) without any words or notes to follow. The great old hymns, yes, some of them have archaic language, but they are full of great theology!
Of all the people complaining about worship at their church, does your worship pastor and sr. Pastor know how you feel?
What disappoints me about a majority of posts are suggestions of formulas to make worship better. If your worship team isn’t completely focused on ushering God’s presence, then style doesn’t matter. Any church that is giving a green light to rock star karaoke acts, then we’re into people pleasing and not God pleasing. That’s the core problem with most churches today…not even with just worship.
Church is the modern day temple. I hope excellence is pursued since worship is an offering. There is a difference in perfection and excellence, go with the obvious.
Also, I see nothing wrong with worship music being a big industry. I hope it grows as long as the heart is truly focused on God.
I’ve know something else that is contributing. Today someone who could be helping there churches music program instead decides to try to be a professional Gospel singer so every Sunday they’re touring other churches instead of helping there own.
you hit the nail on the head. thank you very much for your thoughts on this. glad to know i’m not alone in noticing these things. God bless you.
Here’s my two cents (not that it matters) on why I almost completely disagree with this article:
Spectator set-up: The church service has been in a “spectator setup” since around 300 A.D. (Read the book Pagan Christianity and you’ll be blown away) For many centuries now, the pastor/preacher/priest has been the only one in the spotlight. Prior to this change in the early church, not one person was the focal point of the gathering. Everybody shared in the responsibility of the gathering. To say that the setup is an issue is not valid because this has been the setup for centuries now. And I know they are saying in regards to the music, but even before modern worship, there was either a music director waving his arms, or a choir backing a music director waving his arms. And many people were spectators then too…especially during the choir “special.” How quickly we forget history… when it’s our own.
Professionalism: Thank God for professionalism. Growing up in church my whole life, there was nothing worse than hearing a band that couldn’t play well or a choir or soloist that sang off pitch. I’m sorry, but that is distracting when trying to worship (you all know that one person who sang too loud in the choir…off pitch) and bless their hearts, not their gift. Obviously, you have to work with what you have, but to just throw anyone up there, regardless of their abilities is like saying, “who want’s to preach this week?” We don’t do that, now do we? No, in the majority of cases we pay a “professional” to espouse God’s Word. Why is it good enough for the message, but not the music, which is part of what prepares the heart for the message? It always amuses me that we demand quality when we attend a secular event, a restaurant, an amusement park, etc….but Heaven forbid we have it in the church service. I don’t know about you, but I would rather not eat at a restaurant who just let’s anybody with a reservation come back into the kitchen and cook.
Blare: This one I may be able to buy into on a case by case basis, but I have been to enough LOUD rock concerts to know that when people really like a particular song or songs, they’ll sing at the top of their lungs, even if their ears are bleeding. I feel this is a greater problem in churches trying to push their sound systems to do what they aren’t designed to do. Often, the first budget line item to get cut in churches is technology. They then try to pull off something that their “budgeted” technology will not allow. This creates an awful sound, that can become a distraction. In sound, there are two types of loud: LOUD and GOOD LOUD!
Music choice: This one here, well, it has to be said… The music isn’t about us. It is about a response from a grateful heart that has been redeemed. So when people tell me that they don’t like the music selection, therefore they will not participate, I remind them that it’s not about them. This is something I feel , unfortunately, that isn’t taught very often, if not at all in churches today. And guess what, there are different styles of churches for different types of people because of this issue. When someone critiques music choice it always has to do with them. Week in and week out, music directors, worship leaders and worship pastors toil over the music selection, many times working to pick songs that compliment the message, songs that will prepare peoples hearts for what God wants to say to them that weekend…but when you play that song or songs they don’t like…well…you’ve ruined their weekend worship experience. Worship is not absent of experience, but it’s ultimate goal is not the experience itself. We need to spend more time teaching people that it’s not about them…it’s about Him!
Here’s a shot in the dark…maybe, just maybe…people aren’t singing because this type of music isn’t part of their daily lives…because…wait for it…the Church isn’t part of their daily lives. The Word of God isn’t a part of their daily lives. They don’t fully understand what it means to express a heart of gratitude for their salvation because they aren’t truly burdened by their sin that Christ carried on the cross for them when he died. To them, church is just one more line item to check off with all the other things to do during the week.
The church is not a building or a service…it’s the people of God! And at one point and time they were “Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.”
Where’s that church?
Many assumptions can be made about lack of participation that are solely based on what we see visually and what we hear from the few (of which we claim are many to backup our point) who always like to complain. Taking that information and assuming it must be like this all over the country. What if it’s not any of these things, but a heart issue. Everywhere else in life we teach people to look out for number one…is it a surprise then that people fell this way about “their” churches. The fact is, the only perfect church is an empty one. As soon as you put people in it, we think about ourselves and screw it up.
I will now relinquish my soap-box!
When you put words on a board for me to sing, I don’t sing. Because I’m used to reading music & harmonizing. I learned to read music by singing out of a hymnal or in the choir. I’ll stop going to church if I have to attend a ‘contemporary music’ show place. I’m reading some ancient books about the Moody & Sankey revivals. They truly sang from the congregations in those days. And much of their new songs are in today’s hymnals, dated in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s! People were being saved from hearing Sankey’s songs of Gospel as well as Moody’s Gospel sermons!!
I am wrestling with this article and topic of discussion for a few reasons…
#1-anytime someone is playing music in front of people it can be viewed as a performance (I see the difference between a performance and leading worship as a matter of the heart and unless you talk to a worship leader, you may not know their heart and how they view the ministry).
#2-I know people that don’t want to sing out in church if the music is too quiet so the volume statement seems to vary from person to person
#3-Scripture tells us to play with excellence unto the Lord and it feels like excellence is being equated with professionalism in this article (thus having a negative connotation). I believe music in the church should be well rehearsed and should be at a level that allows people to fix their eyes on Jesus and not be distracted by the music. Obviously, not distracting people includes playing with a level of excellence (we are doing it unto the Lord-shouldn’t it be the best we have to offer). Also not distracting people probably means not doing a 3 minute guitar solo. But I have been in bands that have gone the other way in which I was afraid to play a guitar solo because I was afraid people would then consider it no longer worship but a performance. Again, it’s a matter of the heart and if the player is worshipping God through his playing and if other people are judging him and saying it’s a performance then that’s something they need to figure out.
#4-If worship leaders are planning Biblical songs that are familiar to their congregation, in singable keys, and encouraging the congregation to participate, I feel the congregation has a choice whether to engage and participate. I have heard that worship leaders are responsible for people to sing and though we are called to encourage, teach, and lead-I disagree that our “success” as leaders is measured in how many people in the congregation are singing. We are simply inviting people to the table and hope they come with us; what else can a leader do?
Are we putting too much emphasis on worship leaders to create the environment which allows us to be in a place where we want to respond in singing? If so, that sounds like we are waiting for the very thing (a performance or specific setting) to then respond to the Lord and in the process desiring something that this article is addressing is a problem.
But it shouldn’t Matter what other people are doing, or if it’s a cheesy song or if it’s unprofessional. God wants us to worship Him with joy!! The Bible even tells us to sing praises!!!
As a worship leader in a church I have noticed this problem, and yes it is growing. I have led in MANY settings over the past few years to many different groups of people in different atmospheres and with very different song choices.
Whether you do an “unplugged” set, invite people to the front, change the seating arrangement (if you can), step off the stage to meet them “on their level,” sing “grand old hymns” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) or if you sing any praise and worship song from forty years ago til now the issue is still there. Regardless of age, gender, cultural background or denomination the issue is still the same.
In my humble opinion if the song glorifies God, sing it in praise and in worship to God. Leaders, worship in a way that the Holy Spirit leads you, let the people know what direction the Spirit is leading (if they aren’t already going in that direction) and as I heard a pastor say yesterday morning, “never lose the wonder of who He is.”
We would all do well to get on our knees more often and seek God when we have troubles like this, and encourage our congregations to do the same.
I’m sorry but I’m getting tired if seeing these articles. I understand people want to express their opinions and believe that they are right. But I’m a worship pastor and I get frustrated with this article. I can tell by the writer that they still have the “old school” mind set. Which is not bad. It’s just not reality. I’ll give my agreements and disagreements regarding this article.
I agree that song choice is huge. Songs should be singable. Period.
I disagree on the fact that the writer is basically portraying that this is happening at every church. Well it’s not. I’m sorry if you had a bad experience at a church during worship but don’t wrap it all in one and say your statements starting with “the church”.
I have been a part of many worship services. Loud and soft. That has nothing to do with people’s participation. You see people not participating in both volume levels. Don’t blame it on being to loud because that’s not what you grew up with. I believe louder helps people sing out more. Which helps them participate. If it’s too soft. Forget it. They don’t want their neighbors to hear them.
I can go on. But bottom line. Just because you grew up a certain a in church and you don’t like the way the worship culture is changing, don’t act like the old way was the right way. It’s all about culture. We all understand the core of worship. But the culture we all need to face reality. It’s going to change. But it’s still all for the glory of God. If you’re a WL, start or continue to teach your congregation to worship. Lead them. Guide them. Read what song works and doesn’t work. If they don’t raise their hands, that doesn’t mean they aren’t worshiping. If they aren’t singing, that doesn’t mean God isn’t working in their hearts.
RC, I appreciate your comments, and I’ve been feeling similar.
I’m a middle aged song leader/music team coordinator for a modest sized church blessed with many young guitarist and drummers. Like most churches, we work with the skills of the people we have, who are all volunteers (including myself).
“Are the people of God singing?” is a regular review question we consider as a team. It is the top practical criteria we apply when reviewing our work together (second only to Spiritual priorities).
So many of the comments I’ve read here depress me with what feels like cliched solutions and criticisms I’ve heard all my life. (Worse than that, I’m writing an essay on Renaissance sacred music, and the controversies are feeling awfully familiar).
Rather than criticising, let’s set our song leaders and musicians a challenge: to help God’s people sing together. Let the song leaders and musicians work out how to achieve this goal (there are many possible approaches and strategies, and it will be a little different in each church).
Let’s stop knocking those who serve through music and encourage them towards the goal of filling the building with God’s praises, so the whole congregation becomes the music team.
When our song leaders and musicians catch the passion for helping all God’s people sing, and apply their musical skills towards this goal, we will see the musical growth we desire.
This won’t happen if we tear down and criticise each other.
thank you for writing this RC. you put into words what I was trying too. when we step back and look at this article and some of the comments that have followed, it’s clear to see the divide between styles. I think both sides must remember that these conversations and this article does not seem to be addressing, “are the songs we sing scriptural in churches today” but it’s rather stating preferences and opinions about style. It all comes back to our hearts and worshipping God in spirit and in truth. at my church I used to do acoustic sets once a month and I know some people liked them much more than the full band set. other weeks I did the full band set and other people liked that more than the acoustic week. some people like blues music, others rock, others acoustic, others no instruments, etc. The church is not a place where all our preferences and styles will be met each week and that’s not why the church exists, it’s not about us. so, that’s why I struggle as you do with articles like this because people may begin to label certain styles as “authentic worship” which then leaves other styles as “inauthentic”? This can potentially divide our churches even more when all the while, we are on the same team. humility and love must be present from everyone to remember that the vision of the church is to glorify Christ and it’s about Him and then from that place, we can see how small these differences in preferences really are and whether the music is loud/soft, blues or acoustic, my favorite song or my least favorite song-we can respond to the Lord in song because we clearly see that He is God and it’s all about Him.
This is the most succinct description of today’s church that I’ve seen! It is a true picture of the slaughter of hymnology in the church! Having served as Minister of Music for 21 years in traditional churches and pastoring for another 21 years in such churches, I’m convinced that God is not pleased with our mimicking these so-called worship leaders!
True worship is from the heart of the worshipper to the heart of God! To me, whAt I see in most contemporary churches is nothing more than a worthless attempt to gain God’s attention! They seem to think that the louder the accompaniment tracks and the louder their voices, the more acceptable it is to God. Oh, I’m sure He’s aware of it, but I doubt that He’s pleased with it!
My Bible tells me that God speaks in a still, small voice. I enjoy sharing in services where there is robust singing from the heart, whether it is on key or not. I think God is pleased when we come to Him and worship Him in spirit and truth, which is how God says we are to worship in the first place!!!
While the author of this piece has good points on WHY they don’t feel much like singing (and trust me, I’ve been there!), I can’t help but put the responsibility back on him. God, through His Word instructs us to praise Him through song, over and over again.
You might prefer a different song… sing anyway. The music might be too loud, in a key you find intimidating, in a style that’s annoying, or maybe you just didn’t get enough coffee and you’re cranky… sing anyway. If the words don’t move you, sing something like “I love You, Jesus!” or lift your hands, close your eyes, and ask God to change your heart and maybe for Him to help the worship leader to do his/her [impossible] job better. This idea that “I don’t feel like singing and you can’t make me” is rebellious, prideful, and needs to be rebuked.
Ultimately, you do have a choice of where you worship, but if you have committed to a church, then it is your responsibility to be united with that local body and praise the Lord together as He has commanded you to. Don’t disobey God because the band, the sound guy, or the songwriter hasn’t met your expectations.
This article makes me sad. Let me summarize the author’s message: “I’m not getting what I like, so I won’t participate.” That would be fine, except God commanded all Christians to sing and to sing a new song. This is just selfish and judgmental.
Maybe they don’t sing cos the one they came to worship is no longer there… Many have one another to worship. Many are more a show than corporate worship. Something more than music affects all of it… Is the presence of God sought or good worship… That’s the difference.
People at concerts (even NFL games, etc.) dance, sing, wave their arms, lean on each other–their exuberance and participation is something to behold. Meanwhile, the frozen chosen remain either glued to their seat or standing like statues. Really? Where does this shame come from? We worship the one living and true God! Perhaps the blogger needs to recognize that it is not the music that’s the problem–his disdain for contemporary worship music shines through–rather its hearts that have not been ignited by the Holy Spirit that’s the real problem.
As to professionalism of the choir–the temple choir was made up of professionals. Were they wrong? No, God gifted them to sing and the temple paid them for their service. Why do we think we can just throw God scraps? We’re no better than Cain if we think we can. We should give God the best–from service to worship–every aspect of our lives.
Thom, thanks for writing this! I couldn’t agree more! In fact, I wrote something similar a few years ago – expressing my frustration. http://rodarters.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/whoever-has-ears/. Have you ever heard the justification as to why loud seems to be the ONLY option these days? I’d be curious…
“Have you ever heard the justification as to why loud seems to be the ONLY option these days? I’d be curious…” WHAT?!
Just kidding. 🙂
i don’t think the answer is to bring back “grand old hymns”. (emphasis on OLD). That implies that the old is always better. but remember, when these hymns were introduced they WERE the new songs! lol! nothing wrong with the new songs accept they are not taught and have no background story .
i think the answer lies in singing and teaching songs that people can easily pick up, don’t have complicated parts, add words to the screens when available, and discourage worship leaders from choosing songs that are more solo, than congregational.
i too many times find myself watching than participating…and i sit in the pulpit! mostly because i may not even know the song, too many parts or the whole song is designed for a solo artist. frustrating. i enjoy listening to them, and I’m sure they enjoy singting them, but doesn’t do much for me as a worshiper.
if you notice the worship setup in the book of revelations….all the nations sing, the angels sing together. no solo artist. simple song..”worthy is the lamb….” this is what we should be striving for.
I have always been a member of an acapella church and loved the fact that our voices can be heard and aren’t drowned out by instruments. But, times when I didn’t sing or couldn’t were more of a heart issue than how the music was bring delivered. I think people need to address their hearts first before true worship can happen. When you are praising God, your focus should be on Him and not who is on the stage.
I think most of that’s true. I don’t think it’s so much architecture though. Churches have always had activity at the front except choirs have often been to the side or back. We’ve certainly succumbed to entertainment though. We light it, amplify it, and choreograph it like entertainment, then act surprised when it’s accepted as…entertainment. I totally agree about the volume. I don’t go to church without earplugs. I’ve watched a meter on my music stand “peg” at over 110 dB. I think some of the music is sappy too. I don’t think I honor God when I sing words I don’t feel. I honor Him even less if I sing words I shouldn’t feel.
Worship God with all your heart making Melodies even if you can’t cope with the song or worship leader/team. That’s what I do as long as the music is not metal rock or pagan music, I am fine. When the congregation is able to focus in worship, God will be present and the Holy Spirit moving in our life will transform us. Lyrics ought to be taken from Psalms and nothing worldly. God is in enmity to the world. Whoever befriend the world is God’s enemy. Do not conform to the world. These are God’s Word and His Will / Opinion which is in our bible and all of us must obey.
Some of you have hit on some excellent points. In our congregation, we are primarily contemporary. We occasionally throw in a hymn as the Spirit leads our worship pastor to do so. We do not have a problem with people not singing. Our people worship no matter what we are playing. I watch the congregation as I’m on the platform and I know this to be true. Many times, our altars are lined during the worship service.
Our praise band is not a group of professionals. I am primarily a bass guitar player, but play acoustic. Our bassist has only played in church. Our drummer is part time and is good on several instruments. Our piano player has played traditional church music since she was a girl and the contemporary music is a challenge for her. Our frontline singers are amazing but the most important part of our worship team is that we are all of one heart and one mind in realizing that it is NOT about any individual or us as a group. It is about worshipping and praising God and helping our congregation to do so.
We ‘make the song our own’ because we can’t make them sound exactly like the original artists. We do our best to keep the familiarity so that those who listen to Contemporary Christian radio have a good idea how the songs go. Before we incorporate a new song into the worship service, we discuss it in the days before rehearsal if anyone thinks it’s not a song conducive to our congregation or if it would be better as a special song rather than a worship song. When we introduce new songs, we usually sing them twice so that people learn them and then we do it again the following week and usually 2-3 weeks after that. We don’t want unfamiliarity with the song hinder the worship of the people and more importantly, hinder the movement of the Holy Spirit.
You can argue all different points but it comes down to this: no matter what style of music you use, the most important thing is to put God first!
Love it–love the gospel tone to it. I also like the low-lighting. The low-lighting enables one to focus more on the music and the lyrics, and most especially commune with God and EACH other, through the Holy Spirit.
Keep singing for the King! He deserves our best praise!
Besides all the wonderful, inspiring comments I’d like to add…Why does God instruct us to sing? I believe it is because when we are in “unity”, Christian or not, it is as in Genesis 11 whereThe Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language (sining the same words) they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.” There is Kingdom power in corporate singing & worshiping. We don’t really ever explain that angle of worship to the church. Corporate singing redirects our minds and voices to speak words together in such harmony as to have the power to usher in the miraculous. Like light that is focused into one stream and becomes a lazar. Just saying.
This is sad to me that people feel this way. As a part of a praise team our mission, our charge, is to LEAD others into worship not perform. We have a mix between contemporary and hymns and although I grew up singing hymns and agree that there are some great worshipful meanings within them, there are just as meaningful contemporary praise songs. We are all volunteers on our team with the exception of our paid leader. I feel confident in saying that although we strive to do our best, we do it for the glory and honor of God. The words and the melodies do not matter near as much as the heart and attitude behind it. It you are stubborn and are not singing in your pews because of what song is being sung or because the music is too loud or whatever other reason, then there is a bigger problem with your heart than music.
Interesting points. I think if you are going to write an article about things that you see that could be better, why not at least give some suggestions? It’s too easy to criticise without being on the ‘frontline’ of a worship team!
Reblogged this on mjmsprt40, sez me. and commented:
I admit here to not singing much. Personally, I tend to choke up a bit anyway– but it’s way too true that many of the songs are simply unsingable because we “older folk” simply don’t know the words so can’t sing even if we otherwise would sing.
bring back the hymnals, please!
I’ve been in quite a few churches and I’ve never gotten the ‘feeling’ from those ‘worship teams’. They strike me as cheesy, and not sincere. Especially when the songs sound like they were written by an elementary school student playing at song-writer, not someone who has a genuine outpouring of feeling, inspired by the Lord. I have no problem with either hymns or radio music, in fact I prefer when I can sing both. One church I went to even (occasionally) sang contemporary music from non-Christian artists, but only when the lyrics of the song went along with the message. In fact, some of the messages were inspired by worldly songs and what lessons we could take away from them. One of my professors used to say ‘all of the Bible is truth, but not all truth is in the Bible’.
For me it is all about the feeling and the attitude of the musical leaders in the church. Are they encouraging the congregation to join in? Do they say ‘please join us’ or ‘raise your voices up’? Or are they just the MC for the worship team and the church’s band? Are they offering the lyrics in a convenient location so that worshippers can join in? We’re their congregation, not their audience. In the end, they should sing loud and joyfully, but also humbly. You’re there for the Lord, not for personal glory and/or recognition.
Gone are many of the familiar songs. Seems like every week there is new music with which I am unfamiliar…..in fact it seem like we rarely repeat the unfamiliar ones from the weeks before. I love to sing, but don’t want to “blare out” sour notes, so there are times when I do not participate. It is disappointing and I wrestle with my emotions on the topic. I fully realize it’s about the Lord, not me. But isn’t the worship supposed to be participatory?
So a couple of things about this article. I do see the point, people aren’t singing like they used too but worship music has changed and evolved in the past years, good and bad. It went from hymnal singing and the worship leader waiving his hand in the pattern of a cross to keep time, to bringing in bands and vocalists who have accepted their calling by using their musical talents for God by leading their congregation into worship. Yes there is a growing problem with churches playing contemporary christian music that has become a performance rather than worship and a lot of the time including poor, weak theologically written songs. Also graphic artists and stage lighting can also be a form of worship. so be careful. if the congregation has an expectation of the worship team to perform, then they have a heart issue and didn’t come to worship. its about God, not about them or the worship team performing. We spend several hours practicing and rehearsing and growing closer together as a team through prayer and fellowship to bring the very best to God they can offer Him. We don’t want to be a distraction and hinder worship by playing off beat or playing the wrong note. On the professionalism section, why should someone who has been given a gift and talent be told to hold back for the congregation? its not about their talent, its about Jesus offering their very best they have for Him. Its like the parable of the talents. (matt. 14:25-31). Yes there are times sound is mixed wrong or the congregation might not like a song because not every song works for every congregation. Remember most of the worship teams are volunteers even the sound guys. We are all learning and growing. So my response to the article is basically the author has about as much of a clue about worship music as i do about being a woman…just saying. poorly written article on the subject at hand. But the point is that there is a problem with performance. So liz no offense but I see why you posted this article. There is a growing problem with churches performing instead of worshiping, and/or singing poorly written songs that has very little theology put into it. The worshiper should be focused on singing to Jesus, not worried about what others hear, if they are focused on you then shame on them, they need a heart check( so not pointed at you liz just saying in general.) Thats my two cents coming from my perspective of playing worship music for 12+ years and what ive learned and been taught and been convicted of by God.
It’s hard for folks to sign a song presented on a screen with no music/notes to follow. Sure, most are easy enough to learn, but it still takes at least a once through. Most of these choruses lack the depth of the hymns. The focus of the choruses seems to be more on the people and less on the glory of God, well, at least the ones being sung in the church I attend.
My biggest gripe about the new “wanna be rock star” performance is the playing of music During the prayer. I can’t hear what is being prayed. And, I don’t need ‘Mood Music’ to talk to my Lord. It’s a distraction.
I often get somewhat amused when folks tell me that they don’t understand the “old English” used in many of the old hymns. It becomes an easy “out” for us sometimes. Just my opinion, but the church as a whole seems to have become a lot less “thinking” in our approach to worship music, and a whole lot more “feeling” toward the music. (Not that there’s anything wrong with feeling the music….I absolutely feel the music!) I admit it’s sometimes a challenge for me to understand the meaning and language behind many of the old beautiful hymns of the church, but once I really seek to understand what they mean, I often find a wonderful, powerful thought that stirs my personal worship, and ultimately my relationship with God. I encourage many of the folks I encounter in music ministry to just take an old hymn and read through the words without thinking of any music melody. This often brings out more meaning to me. If you are having trouble understanding, then seek to understand. Don’t give up too quickly (sounding like Capt Obvious ☺, this could be applied to all songs) I believe I should always sing and worship with understanding (1 Cor 14:15), regardless of whether it’s a new song or old song. As an aging minister of music, I’m finding my horizons expanded in all directions musically, and I love it! Don’t stop using that wonderful mind, imagination and brain that God has blessed you with!
STOP WHINING AND SPONSOR A KIDS MUSIC LESSONS.
If you want the younger crowd to read music and sing along, stop complaing and lamenting their lack of musicality and pick a few kids from your church and pay for them to get music lessons.
This is the real problem: the older generation complains but refuses to invest in the next generation.
BINGO! If people want to do something about the quality of today’s church music. If you have the money, go to your song leader or accompanist and insist on paying them to teach the most talented youth of your congregation for a decent price. And not just your children or grandchildren only! I bet for $50 a month they would do it if the child had REAL POTENTIAL and TALENT! Donate the money to your church’s music program and earmark it to be used for this purpose only! It could even be an adult, for the love of God! Reading music is not that hard. People make it sound as if it is as difficult as doing Astro-Physics or Advanced Trigonometry. It is as hard as learning to read words, what is difficult is being able to read it off the page and sing in on pitch and for the correct duration specified by the composer. Get them a real teacher that steers them away from Top 40 pop radio and have them study music throughout church history as well as folk hymns, spirituals, classical oratorios, Christmas carols, gospel hymns and classic and modern hymns from all Christian denominations, not just their own, and not just CCM! They should be taught the major Latin texts as well, and not be ignorant of these either. I have had students of my own that didn’t know Christmas carols as famous as Away in a Manger, Silent Night, and the First Noel. Trust me, this is what needs to be done! Stop bitchin’ and do something about it instead! I am a real Lutheran church soloist and cantor of twenty years experience, I should know what I am talking about by now! Then after several years of lessons, have them fill in for the cantor/ soloist whenever he/she is sick, hospitalized or on vacation!
I now go to a church that doesn’t rely on the old hymns that people have grown up with. Without practice, how can you really sing something that is unfamiliar to you?
Question: if you have someone paint the interior of the church or install carpet or repair a door or perhaps fix the furnace or provide any service to the church…would you criticize them on having too much professionalism or doing their job to the best of their ability? Why would you do that to the brothers and sisters in your church family who have music as their vocation or avocation and use those talents as God commands? Trained professional musicians in your service (paid or no) will: 1)Do a blended service with quality new material and the great hymns of the faith, because they get it. 2) Resist the projected words movement since it provides a fraction of the info needed to sing a song…but use them because they know it’s not about them.3) Interact with the congregation during songs (is your worship leader not looking at you? then they aren’t leading…) because they know who the audience is and who is the choir.
One thing I’ve learned about worship leading in the past 20 years. Somebody will complain no matter what you do. I’ve felt the Holy Spirit visit during acapella hymns and soaring rock anthems on the DVD and kids songs sung by squirming 4 year olds. I’ll be as inviting and understanding and knowledgeable about congregational singing as I can be. Then I will craft a worship unto the Lord according to the best of my ability (40 years of musicianship). If you make excuses as to why you don’t want to join, well bless your heart, that’s between you and the Lord who wants you to worship. Maybe you ought to think/pray about opening yourself up to that. Now let’s turn to page 246 in the hymnbook and sing the 1st, 2nd, and last verses…. 🙂
many people are afraid of the commitment you make when you sing. “what if i sing a wrong note?” “what will the people in the power clique think?” face it, people are just afraid of stepping out and singing. i sing in the choir (i’m the tenor section), and when i sit in the congregation, the only voices i hear are my fellow choirmembers. it is saddening at the very least.
It’s interesting that an overwhelming majority of the comments here talk about attender behavior and seating arrangements, volume, acoustics, music, lack of choir singing… Maybe there is another issue apparent here… Does the congregation really know why they are singing and whom they are singing too? Do they really hold a true belief in their hearts… Are they truly excited about who God is? In scripture most references to singing are in rejoicing and often as a response to an experience with God… The early church would do music as well but no one really knows if they did 5 full songs at the beginning of every gathering? They definitely didn’t have a stage with a PA system because that technology was not invented. There is record of instruments being used other than just voices… So what is the factor here and now that is different?… I think the answer lies in your lack of belief and understanding of who God truly is and who Christ is… The early church also was under constant persecution… The American church isn’t so much. I also think the the middle class protestant church has something to learn from our Urban and Gospel church brothers and sisters on how to let our selves go and be free to dance before the Lord. We are so uptight and so worried about if our kids are making a little bit of noise or what others might think… The reality is that this kind of culture that has been created stifles community and it forces us into an entertainment based self focused group of curmudgeons that argue about cultural issues and preferences rather than choosing to be committed to one another and walk through life together the way Christ intended the church to be.
Maybe I missed it in one of the comments but one thing I’m surprised no one commented on is the heart of the people. I think people aren’t worshipping as much because Christians today are very shallow and have little if no connection to God. When your walk with God is close to nonexistent you will have no desire to worship. True worship is a response to God’s presence in your life not a worship leader. Although you may have your musical preferences, if a song reminds you of God’s grace, faithfulness, goodness, etc. you can’t help but worship. It will be a reflex. And no I’m not perfect and have been guilty at times of just showing up at church empty handed and drained, but when I’m spending time with God consistently throughout the week, no one will have to beg and plead with me to worship on Sunday, regardless of the music being played.
Okay, I get it. Worship music sucks sometimes musically. And sometimes the people leading don’t mean a word they’re singing. Valid points. But honestly those are fruit issues, not root issues bro. If you truly have a heart for God, and truly long for His presence, you will sing no matter what everyone else is doing, you’ll worship whether you know the songs or not. True worshipers don’t need a “worship leader,” to stir up passion within them for their God. Why? Because if you really know God, there is no way you can’t worship or love Him. If you know how to get in His presence, then there is no one or nothing stopping you but yourself. =) have a blessed day
Because I’m not overly rich, I take rooms in the rear of a friend’s house. We’ve been in the church since the early 1980s. He plays the piano and does quite well at it, and can play gospel right out of the old hymnals from memory. Neither of us can sing with the new songs though. Modern “worship”– I deliberately put that in quotes– leaves us oldsters out in the cold, since there just isn’t much we can sing with or even follow from one meeting to the next in many cases. I’m sure the “worship team” up front is having a time, but– they’ve had time to practice the songs and get them right, we out in the pews haven’t.
Why don’t we join in corporate worship? It’s because we’ve been excluded. I know you don’t want to read that but it’s the truth. Having new songs every week that only a handful of worship leaders get to learn effectively excludes everybody else. Congratulations, I’m sure the team will win an award someday and the rest of us will be told that we just didn’t have a heart for God. or something like that.
In the last two years I have visited several churches seeking a new church home after moving. Music is usually the hardest thing to adapt to. Probably the biggest source of the sound of crickets in the congregation from my experience is the personalization of the songs. The more that they “make the songs their own” the more the congregation is lost, confused and frustrated. No one wants to hear the same songs every Sunday but hearing new ones every single Sunday also makes it impossible for the audience to participate.
It is supposed to be a source of praise to God from the church body, not a display to show others of how strong your faith is or how good you are as a performer. But the more the singers posture and put on a show, the more we as a congregation find ourselves becoming self-conscious of how we look and sound. It’s literally distracting and, more importantly, removes the focus from what it should be.
Unfortunately, another source of irritation and distraction I have to admit is really bad singers and musicians. I know that it is a beautiful sound unto the Lord and in the time of choirs and lack of sound systems it was not so much of an issue, but now with bands and mics, I see a lot of cringing and groans in these situations. It can be very uncomfortable and can also be frustrating to follow music that is continuously off key and has wonky timing. Not sure how to remedy that since I’m thinking holding auditions or kicking someone out is not exactly a good Christian tactic, but I have to say it’s a problem.
The big problem throughout this entire article has nothing to do with the worship leader or the worship team. It has to do with the congregation half-assing their way through church as if it’s something they HAVE to go to. Not singing because you think the song is “lame” is the dumbest excuse not to worship the Living God.
“Hey sorry God. This song is lame, so I’ll worship you another time.”
Churches have to learn to stop being selfish. This whole article shouts of a congregation that worship their own taste in music and style.
I’ll chime in here and will probably upset a few…
I no longer do it now, but for 13 years I was the worship leader. (Minister of music)
Here’s the #1 problem with all of this, especially in America.
We try to make God in our image instead of being made in his.
It’s NEVER about what you or I like when it comes to worship, singing, ect. It’s about what HE desires.
Now, let’s start with the overall theme of creation and the Father’s original intent.
When earth was made it was made to mirror heaven and be a colony of heaven. This is still the Lord’s intent.
So before we say how worship should be the first thing we should do is see how worship flows in heaven. Because this is the model for worship, NOT WHAT we feel.
Where can we see this?
Isaiah chapter 6.
Here’s a clue into the throne room.
Now, nowhere in that instance do you get any idea of worship being ‘manageable’.
Here’s another thing.
Quenching the spirit.
God has clearly given us instructions on not doing this, but we do it every Sunday, Wed, or rehearsal times.
Not saying there should not be order, but for those who are constantly talking about worship leaders being ‘rockstars’ sometimes don’t see that that make the pastor an idol.
Listen, what do we come to church for?
Hopefully it should be to experience God’s MANIFEST presence and not to do our DUTY to say we went to church.
Because no matter how much you go to church or attend any ‘activities’ nothing will ever change you or is equal to the MANIFEST presence of God.
And this is why a lot of people are failing in their walks including youth.
See the problem is and has always been that while the babies (unchurched, youth, ect) have wanted to get to Jesus, it’s the DISCIPLES who are in the way.
Listen, look at any example where Jesus or God receives worship and you won’t find THEM telling people to ‘stop that’.
God likes, no LOVES, it when people make a big deal about Him.
And He likes showing up and disrupting ‘church’ with blessings and a touch that no preaching could ever equate to.
Not throwing preaching away, all I’m saying is, if church is supposed to be the place where you go to meet God, why are we walking away dissapointed?
And if you think I’m off on the big deal thing, just check the story of David and the ark.
If that was today, we’d say that guy is a lunatic, but GOD LOVED IT!
And made his wife barren because she talked about it.
Now where do we go from here?
Understand that the overall attempt from God is to always introduce HIMSELF to humanity. And that includes the young person, the old person, the drug addict, the prostitute, and more.
But if God is a fisherman, He understands that different fish require DIFFERENT bait.
So yes, at one church hymns may do it where as another contemporary will do it.
And this is coming from a person who has led worship in an black church, white church, nigerian church, and latino church. (Yep, all of them)
And trust me, what opens the presence of the Lord in one church does not in the other.
Because the thing that is the atmosphere of a church is the COLLECTIVE minds of the people.
And as the worship leader, my job is to get the MINDS of the people on God so GOD CAN COME IN and do what He wants.
And the way I do that is with a VARIETY of music.
And this is what it means when it says David was cunning and skillful in playing. It’s how He disrupted the evil spirit from Saul.
He didn’t play an F# and the spirit hurt.
No, he played in such a way that it shut off all the INFLUENCE of any evil spirit so God could get through.
I’ll end it with this.
Earlier in this post I stated that God’s intent was to have Heaven and Earth run parallel.
So whatever happens on earth happens in heaven.
So the real question is for all of us, with the way worship happens in heaven…
If God came to our church on Sunday….would HE feel right at home?
If the answer is no, then it’s time to change something.
The Bible says 9 times “Sing me a new song” The people have said countless times “No I won’t do that” “Lets sing a old song that we know”
In my opinion, this issue has less to do with the music and more to do with a heart problem of the congregation. An outward expression of praise and love reflects the heart. I’m not saying it comes effortlessly;it takes work. You’re not always going to feel like singing. You might not always like the music choice. But for heaven’s sake it’s a chance to worship the creator of the universe. For the most part, I’d imagine that the people who aren’t singing have lost sight of the magnitude and glory of God. Spend additional time in prayer and in the word and leave the judgmental attitude behind when you come to church and I guarantee singing in worship will come easier to you. If you depend on the worship team to forcibly lead you into the presence of God, then you have an incorrect view of that groups purpose. They’re there to open the doors, but it’s your responsibility to walk through them.
How true especially about the music choices. When I was music leader for our small church our people sang I selected songs easy to sing and repeated several weeks new songs. Comfort
Sing to The Lord!
Come to NYC. Some neighborhood parishes are doozys. I could write an Epistle.
If one’s heart and mind are in the right place, the song, the singing, or the lack of either will not affect the worship. Participation is probably not any better or worse than it was in the past. I think resistance to change and laziness is the primary reason for this complaint. Most people cant read vocal music. If they know hymns, they probably know them in the style that was used by their parents, not note for note in the arrangement from the hymnal. If they sang the same 10 hymns for the first 18 years of their lives, 9 of 10 were bored and simply droning the tune with everyone else. While some praise teams may in fact go overboard with “performing”, I don’t think it happens in the majority of churches. Branch out. Listen to Contemporary Christian music and you’ll know the songs. I’ll bet you already know a lot of current pop, rock, or country songs from the radio.
I think we are in a society were we can’t express our emotions and in praise and worship it is about emotions because u are praising and worshiping GOD. Because I’ve even notice people are afraid to get involved in altar service also because people are afraid of what they might do. So lights or no lights loud or soft it all starts with each individual and is it what God has done for them is it really worth praising him with everything u have.
I’m not exactly sure where you’re getting this information, but I have been leading contemporary worship for the last 25 years all over the country and I would say most often the congregation is singing quite loud.
Most churches have decided they are after young people..those on the edge..k love radio listerners..and have forgoten the older church members. They have told them in a round about way you are gonna worship with this contemporary music and you are gonna like it are else..Who desided that Gods spirit doesnt move when you sing the songs out of the song books..Some of the older people are just discouraged with the music but the Church will role on
1. You are plagiarizing. These are not your original thoughts, but regurgitated thoughts from other bloggers that have been circulating for years. Shame on you for your lack of integrity.
2. You can’t worship, or you won’t worship? Shame on you for placing yourself at the centre of your worship. It’s not about you, pal.
You think hymns are congregational-friendly? You think they are easily singable and in the vocal range of the average person in the pew? That ridiculous and every musician knows it.
I think you like the sound of your own voice too much. This is a heart issue, not a “I wish our musicians would stop aiming for musical excellence and I wish we would go back to fluorescent lighting” issue. I am so tired of these excuses that people use to express why they WON’T worship anymore. It’s all a deflection, and is fooling no one.
This hits the nail on the head. Too often these days, it’s about who’s/what’s on stage instead of being actual worship. The volume is, more often than not, entirely too loud and/or the song leaders go on and on and on and on, dragging out praise choruses forever, sometimes nearly turning into “jam sessions”. I’m all for all different types of music, as long as it doesn’t detract from the purpose of worship, and the things I just describe do exactly that. I can totally understand why some are deterred from participating, and THAT’s truly a shame.
Perhaps Worship is not a concert, but professionalism, musicianship, is not the problem. But a failure for individuals to have the music cater to their traditionalism that perhaps “keeps them from singing”. They sure can sing Wagon Wheel at their favorite professionally organized and extremely loud country shows just fine.
Yes, in many mega church’s there has become this issue of egotistical, more about me than Jesus, attitude when it comes to worship/music programs.
But those were not the points made in this article.
I am currently in a church with a fantastic music program. Two churches combined, one a Church of Christ (non instrumental) and a Christian church (instrumental). Through working together, our services are now a combination of both. Old hymns are sung, often a capella, and also some of the more “contemporary” music. It is a real joy to stand (or sit) in the congregation and listen to the “audience” sing. More often than not, it is infectious and one cannot help but lift their voice and sing!
What about the people who are shy and feel uncomfortable singing when there is no music for the fear of being heard? Is it infectious for them…or is it just infectious for you?
Good music and well written songs are meaningless. Without the moving of the Holy Spirit, none of this matters. Human efforts will always fail. God must move the hearts of man, and He will only move where He is welcomed.
While some of this I agree with, what I don’t agree with is that just doing the opposite of your four points will cause people to all the sudden sing again. There are many many more things going on in a church where people don’t feel free enough to sing there hearts to God than just music that is too loud for your likening. And with that said this is hard to read because all it is, is a complaint. If you come up with the negatives then at least suggest some sort of solution otherwise you are just a cynic.
I agree. It’s easy to be a critic. Why do we stop at hymns when we talk about going back to the “tool old days” of church worship?
This may have been addressed already but I’m going to go for broke on this and we’ll sort out the follow-up comments (if any) as they come through. This is not an all inclusive list by any means but here is what is not the issue: song selection, volume, skill, pitch, the worship leader, comfortable range for men, a Capella, pianos or organs, acoustic or electric, laser lighting, fog machines, spot lights, drums, bass, etc. (I could really go on but hopefully you get the point.) It begins with the Pastor of the church. I write this as someone experienced both in the pulpit as well as someone who has been part of worship teams for over 15 years. Pastors are shepherds, meaning they are responsible for the entire flock entrusted to them by God. Just as a child is taught to walk, speak, read, and write, so also a believer must be taught to worship. There must be clear and concise instruction. None of this “Because the Bible says so!” psycho-babble. If we are to worship in spirit and in truth, the root cause must be discovered. That begins with instruction from the Leader of the church.
If you want to bring Biblical instruction into the conversation, let’s start with Psalm 96:1 “Sing a new song to the Lord! Let the whole earth sing to the Lord!” I don’t mention this to bash the hymns. At one point, they were new. I’m not even saying they have no place so don’t hate on that statement please. That verse give instruction not only for new songs, but also for everyone to sing.
The point is styles change, culture changes, preferences change. What remains constant is God and the message of Jesus Christ come to pay the ransom of sin for all people. If the statement I just made is true, why then is a song “unannointed” if it glorifies God, giving thanks for the liberty and freedom the cross provided? Is it because it isn’t written in B flat? Or because it doesn’t use King James language? Describing a song as hollow or shallow is just that, hollow and shallow. So also are comments like: “I don’t like those electric guitars” “I don’t like that organ, it sounds old” “I don’t like hymns because I can’t relate to them” “I don’t like new music because its too loud” “The new slides don’t show the notes so I don’t know the tune”. I’ve heard it all. Have you ever said a variation of this? I know I have so shame on me.
The point of the song service is the outward expression of a worshipful heart and is evident of a lifestyle of worship.
Too often, the “worship service” is put on a pedestal as our 25-60 minute time to worship God. If that is your view, then there is not enough of a lifestyle of worship. When Paul and Silas sang praises to God while in prison, they were either songs they made up or they were singing songs that were current in their meetings (the message of Christ was new so the songs had to be new). They determined for themselves that no matter the adversity (see my list of complaints above), they were going to worship their Creator and the Messiah.
Stop holding your worship captive! Your song preference should not even factor into the equation! Pastors, get to the level of caring for your flock that you will give sound Biblical instruction on how and why to worship! The definition of being a leader is the ability to gain followers. You can’t blame your worship pastor? No, be accountable to your worship pastor and give them the same instruction. Blame the “generational gap”? No, overcome it with the Gospel of peace.
Older generation, I love you for the foundation I gained while under your watchful care. Now don’t let up on showing the next generation of church leaders that you can worship no matter what the song is. Please don’t build monuments to the past, but look forward to a great harvest that is coming. Let the new harvesters learn from you how to be prepared.
Younger generation, I love your zeal in the expression of your heartfelt worship to God. Look to the older generation, not as irrelevant but as the pioneers. Take their true example and get ready. There is a revolution coming in the church, Whether we remain relevant or not depends on how prepared we are to receive the lost. I will not depend on our bickering over the music.
“Traditional” vs “Contemporary” is nothing but a reason to have division. Division is rebellion. Christ taught us to be united. Where you stand is the reflection of your intent. Your words also show your heart. Any sentence or phrase that begins with “I can’t worship to…” is all the proof you need that there needs to be a transformation of the heart and renewal of the mind.
I love you all, whether brothers and sisters in Christ, blogosphere trollers or a combination thereof. I’m open to discussion, but let’s keep it mature and factual.
If you attend a worship service at a church of Christ, you will hear congregational singing because we do not use instruments. Only the voice is heard, therefore, all must sing. I attended the funeral of my father in law years ago. My wife’s family is Lutheren. My wife and I, however belong to the church of Christ. During the service, there was some singing with an organ blaring in the back and you could just make out some folks sing, but for the most part it was just the organ grinding away. THAT is when it was thrust home why we in the church don’t use instruments. Where is. The edifying? You can’t hear it over the instrument. Where is the teaching? Again, you can’t hear it over the music. We are told to talk to one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, but how can you do that with all that racket coming from the plumbing?
Even David played a harp!
I long for the days when familiar hymns with great words were sung. And even when the newer songs are used, it is a different song every week… too shallow… Something has been lost.
One of the main reasons people don’t sing anymore is expressed subtly in this article. You even fell into it in this article by using the word “stage.” We have made the worship team a “band” and the church events are listed in the “program.” We have, in one generation, shifted the purpose of worship from a group activity to an entertainment activity. Stage, program, band….. What is the point of church anymore? We even have special Friday night worship nights that are promoted as times to come and be refreshed. I thought worship was for and to God, not about us.
I have stopped signing in church for 2 reasons:
1. My voice has changed from a medium-high soprano to an alto and I don’t know the notes.
2. The music no longer pulls at my soul as it just repeats a few words or sentences constantly. I guess that music writers today don’t know how to write… It’s boring now, and yes, also VERY LOUD!
You are always welcome at your local Catholic Church! They have had their moments in the past but overall, the church doesn’t really condone performance artists at mass. I’ve also been to some churches that do include more modern songs, but they will have either a projector or a song book to find them 🙂 one thing I do enjoy is singing along during worship!! So yes when I come to a church with an over the top choir who would rather show off than include the congregation, it does bother me! I totally understand why people don’t want to sing or feel like they don’t have to either.
You can come to my church, Vinings Worship Center, Smyrna, GA 30080. There you will see people singing dancing and shouting!! We are a worship center. We do praise and worship songs and there are times we might sing a hymn. So not everyone has stopped singing in church!!!
The old blood washed songs that used to be sung in our churches have been replaced with worldly songs. Them BLOOD WASHED songs were meant to bring conviction to the sinner. To open their hearts and minds to a savior who died for you and I. Emotional songs brings emotions not conviction. There is power in the BLOOD. Think about it.
May I invite all readers to visit a Primitve Baptist Church; we only sing hymns acapella every Sunday. It’s beautiful to hear the voices of the congregation singing heartfelt praises unto The Lord.
I understand every reason mentioned in the article; however, there is no mention of worship leaders who do drop the key to allow congregational singing or take time to teach a new chorus, so the people will and can participate. There is no reference to the song writers who are fusing together old hymns with new P&W choruses or simply reworking a hymn with different chords. People equate the hymn book with the Bible, as if you can’t add or take away any content. Are we so rigid and subjective that new songs can’t become classic hymns someday, right along side Amazing Grace? Did God stop creating or influencing musicians to write lyrics? What year was that? Are the songs of our younger generation not really reaching them or us on a spiritual level? Are they being fed the word through song, or is their Christian worship suspect or even non-existent musically?
I am from a small town Black church in North Central TX. After 18 1/2 years, I knew every hymn we sang. My affinity for Black gospel was based on nothing I did. It just happened because I attended that church approximately 936 Sundays, feeding off specific hymns and some choral specials by the choir. I also was a musician at an early age in that church. I didn’t listen to Christian music Mon thru Sat. on the radio, on records, or on 8 track tapes or cassettes. Hardly any of that existed in those days in my community. You could say I acquired my initial Christian musical preference simply thru a slow but steady immersion in black Gospel. I could have been born green and it still would have been my music of choice, favorite by default as is the story for most adults who have been Christians for decades. People like and prefer what’s familiar. I left the Black Gospel church in 1988 and commence to worship in a foreign land, the white church. I grew to love and started playing for a southern Baptist church in 1992. At first the music was boring with no feeling because of some preferences I had hard wired to my upbringing, but through a slow but steady immersion, I can worship, cry, and say amen just like I did in the Black church.
I don’t know when Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) immerged, but that music changed the landscape, primarily in the white church. Let me say there is no change greater than the one I experienced when I crossed the racial divide. That being said, how can the youth learn every lyric and sing loudly, no matter what P&W song, but their parents or other adults can’t? Immersion or intentionality to learn is required, even on my part. I confess I need to listen more and have the music on my playlist. You now have young adults who prefer the louder sound and P&W choruses often because it is part of their personal and corporate worship history. It is how they worshipped in youth group and then the same worship style in college and beyond. It is how our former pastor worshipped as an older teen when he was saved. These young adults and the current youth have a different Christian musical experience. If the youth are indeed the future of the church, do they need to mirror our musical worship style to grow their faith and sustain Christianity? We can’t honestly believe they prefer the same songs we prefer? If we want that then there is a need to shut down every Contemporary Christian radio station in America and break up the P&W groups because that is where they are constantly fed “church” music. We also need to revamp the music at camp, Wed night youth services, etc.
There’s another reason that has bugged me for years. Most worship leaders have beautiful tenor voices & sing in a key that is very uncomfortable for women. We have 3 choices; screech the melody an octave higher than the worship leader, sing our best low alto, or come up with our own harmony that is in our range. And we often have to switch between octaves within the same song, based on how low or high the notes go. So frustrating!! Anyone else out there agree?
Donna I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am a “Worship Leader” at a church in a medium sized rural community in Australia. We are blessed to have 3 music teams and currently 4 worship leaders. None of us are professionals, we just do the best we can. Fortunately some of our team has the skills to transpose music up or down a few tones to make them more singable – for the vocalists leading as well as the congregation.
There’s a lot of truth in this statemement. For a radically new kind of church go to:
http://www.churchvision.co.uk
I am with you. I don’t know have the songs so why bother…..
“Bother” because GOD is always worthy of praise!!!!
“I long for an environment that evokes my heartfelt participation.”
Change begins with one. Yes, change should happen on stage, but it can also begin with one person singing unprofessionally in the congregation. You want them to make this environment for you? Yes, it helps, but as a man of God who is knowledgable and writes many things explaining what is wrong with the church today, wouldn’t you agree that one of those things is we as Christians all follow each other instead of standing up as men and women of God and seeking His plan first?
I understand, and partially agree with what you’re saying. You, however, won’t get a “good job” for standing up for what you believe in when you are simply standing there staring and ignoring the opportunity to enter the presence of God without having your hand held by a worship leader.
You want change? Talk to your pastor about it politely, and pray about it between Sundays. You’d be amazed at what God can do in time when we actually humble ourselves and pray for the leadership in our churches, even the ones we may not approve of.
Our church sings new and older choruses and a lot of hymns, as well, and the singing is fairly loud because almost everyone participates. Why? Because our worship leaders are, themselves, true worshipers who are led by the Holy Spirit! I almost never miss going to church!!! Love, love, love worshiping my Awesome God!!!
As a worship leader for the past 20 years in all sizes of churches I can’t disagree more with most of your points.
As a worship planner and teacher and worship leaders some of the problems are easily fixable. However, the heart of the person in the congregation is the number one reason they don’t participate. They have neither been taught how to participate or at a place where the aren’t participating for a zillion reasons.
One, volume has little to do with congregational singing. I grew up in a little baptist church with the organ blaring and we sang just fine. Go to a youth event and watch kids poor out their heart with loud music. Honestly today people freak out hearing their own voice and get quieter when they hear it. It’s not the volume level it’s the person.
Two, poor song selection either hymn or the latest P&W song in a key no one can sing. Picking a song the average person can sing is critical. Pick a great old hymn in a key too high and no one sings it. Completely debunking it’s a new chorus that is the problem.
Three, having great leaders on stage doesn’t squash singing if done properly. A heart for leading others in worship versus being a star is a major difference. The church for 100’s of years has had great singers and instrumentalist without a problem.
Finally, I will concede there are churches where it’s a showcase of ability. That isn’t the problem of the leader it’s a greater problem of the whole church and it’s leaders. They have missed their calling completely. It’s not a servants heart, but me centered.
Couldn’t agree more
IMHO… if the band is playing so loud one cannot hear themselves or another sing, it becomes all about the band and is a concert. Worsbip is FELLOWSHIP…if I cannot hear your singing, how can I share in fellowship with you. Simple. My cousin has a church that he says the aoeship.band is loud and lively…if I want they will provide me with earplugs…seriously?! Defeats the whole purpose of fellowshipping with others if my ears are plugged. No thank you.
Consider “Angels We Have Heard On High” and “Hark, the Herald Angels Sing.” They are carols, but for for practical purposes they are hymns. Here’s what makes them well-suited for congregational singing:
– Good melodies. They are fun to sing, and if you know no other parts, you sound great on the melody.
– Good inner parts. If you want to sing something other than melody, there’s a good part for you.
– The rhythms are not complicated; they are straightforward.
– They can easily be sung acappella, and when they are, it’s a glorious sound.
– Instruments sound very good with them.
This recipe for worship music is a good one, and we should keep it. We need to replace the negative image of “hymns” with the image of “Hark” or “Angels,” and re-discover the gift of hymns, crafted for us by some very fine poets and composers. Yes, some hymns are dull and lacking, but don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Regarding music notation: we learn to read books because it greatly expands our ability to gather and disseminate information. The same applies to reading music.
There was a time not too awfully long ago when it was considered that Worship did not happen until the Word was opened. Music was intended to be the vehicle that led the Congregation into that time of worship, but it wasn’t called ‘worship’ in and of itself. Our worship is intended to be supernatural, wholly apart from anything the World knows. It is a Supernatural Response to a Supernatural God by the Supernatural Body of the of the Saints. It wasn’t intended to give Flesh a rush. It wasn’t intended to be something that made Flesh feel good, fulfilled, or accomplished. Any Rock concert can create natural emotional responses, any motivational speaker, any convincing speech.
I think we confuse Worship with Emotional Expression, when more often than not, such expression has nothing to do with Doxa, the accurate describing of the Father, which is translated into English as “Glorify”. God is Worshiped in Spirit (our New Creation, which is Supernatural, responding to the Supernatural) and in Truth (Doxa). This is why Spirit and Truth can never be separated. It has nothing at all to do with making us feel good – whether it does or not. Feeling good is not a measure, detector, or indicator of true worship.
That being said, it might be, and I might dare guess it was the case, that the little local, unhip congregation with the grating voices sounding out those 300 year old verses of song to the strains of an out of tune upright played by Aunt Martha, yet accurately describing the Father and the Son with their heart, soul, mind and strength in supernatural response to the Spirit of His Son, might sound sweeter in the Ears of the Sovereign than all the professionalism and “religious cultural popular-ism” this Aeon can muster.
But then, it has always been the remnant, the minority, the narrow road sojourners that are called by – and respond to – His name . . . . . not the masses.
Reblogged this on Overheard and commented:
Worship is being lost to the church and being steadily replaced by entertaining performances.
I think he said it when discribing the musicians on stage as performers to be watched. Take the band down. Take the microphones away! Everyone should be able to hear each other singing- that is mutually beneficial and uplifting. Worship is not a show to be entertained by, it is to be participated in!
You should visit Activate Church Vancouver in Vancouver, WA. I’m happy to say this article is very inaccurate there…not intending to be rude, I’m just happy that my church doesn’t fit this bill.
Stefanie and many of you others who cannot relate to the above article, it is accurate for many churches. If you are in a place where this is not a problem, you are blessed. We do have such an issue. One big issue we have is the almost entirely youth or below-40 appeal that leaves Seniors in the lurch. Hearing aid accessories are a small help, and the dropping of the Hymnals from use has cut down the ability of those with age oriented acuities from being able to follow words to songs they don’t know well. They need bright lights, a hymnal they can read through their mulifocal eyeglass lenses, and a linear sound waveform (sorry, tech talk) as opposed to the distorted flat-topping waveforms coming from many a church sound system as they ramp up the input signal in an attempt to provide a multisensory event. My heart goes out to the 50-plus group that I see becoming more and more marginalised, however unintentionally. And no, having “senior” services is not the answer. That only further fractionalizes an already fractionalized Church.
Everyone at my church sings. Everyone. Cornerstone aka First Baptist Church of Helmet.
Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2 Corinthians 3:17. It’s not a music genre thing, it isn’t a seeker-friendly thing, it’s a heart thing. Either this Scripture in 1 Corinthians is true or it isn’t. Maybe, just maybe, it’s not the environment, but the people occupying the pews/seats. Maybe, just maybe, it’s the fact that the church is loaded with false converts (put in biblical terms; tares versus wheat). Maybe, most in the congregation aren’t worshiping because they don’t know the One they are meant to worship.
One other problem is that many/most contemporary songs aren’t in a good key for the majority of singers. The bulk of them are in the ideal range for a strong tenor, leaving things awkward for baritones and women, leaving us to jump around from a squeaky high to a low unison etc. I say this as a professional musician and a trained soprano. I can sing all different kinds of songs but the range of most contemporary christian songs is not comfortable for a variety of reasons. A simple changing of keys will not always solve the problem, there is more to it than that.
Oh, boy. I pray I don’t step on toes with one. I’m not being fair because I’m not a music lover of any kind. So, I’m not a good source. But I believe music has overwhelmed churches today. It’s appears to me to be more about look at “me” than look at Jesus. Don’t believe me? Notice next Sunday how many people pile out the back door when the music finally stops and the preacher delivers his sermon, the real food for the soul. I always feel I’m watching the American Idol TV show or attending a Broadway musical when I go to church. When I grew up, the elders used to think that rock n’ roll and modern music was the Devil’s workshop. Looks like we couldn’t beat ’em so we joined them. To me, when you enter God’s house you humble yourself before The Lord and offer your praise with humility. For some reason, I just don’t think eating that microphone and acting like a rock star is humility. Give me that old time religion… It’s good enough for me.
I think all of you need to reconsider Matthew chapter 6. Who do you do it for and why do you do it? Who’s opinion matters most?
I’ve read many of the comments here, and I find it a little disturbing; no one (unless it was in the few I glossed over) have focused on the fact that worship is what we are commanded to do. It is not for us, but for our Creator/Savior. If I feel something, that is a blessing, but if I participate in corporate worship to feel something, I am making it about me.
I agree with all this that you said. But I will say this, audience think there the ones being sung 2. We sing for an audience of one and that is God. We aren’t here to please the crowd and make them feel all good we are here to please God. The churches need to get back to true worship and concentrate on God and not everything they don’t like. We came to worship God nothing else. 🙂 God bless you and thank you for this article.
I have to know that this is an age old argument/discussion that each generation has. Do you realize that one time “Amazing Grace,” How Great Thou Art”, and “The Old Rugged Cross,” were “new” worship songs? Did you ever stop to think that it one time there was no piano or organ in the church? When those songs came out, and when those instruments were introduced, there were people in those congregations that were saying things like, “They sure don’t make music like they used to!,” And “That piano sure is loud!” I remember in the 80s and the 90s that people acted as if the electric guitar was an instrument that had to have been forged in the depths of hell.
My earliest and fondest memories of church we’re standing in the pew next to my grandmother and singing some of the old hymns. (My favorite was Heavenly Sunlight.) I have lead worship in the most traditional of conservative churches where no one raised their hands, or clapped (even) and it got no crazier than an old piano (maybe an acoustic guitar and an organ); and in pentecostal/charismatic churches, where the music was loud and the people were “very free.” I have been moved in services where I was listening to the choir sing, and deeply moved in churches where there is a worship leader, praise team, and worship band. I had songs like “I surrender all” minister to me in the moment that I needed salvation, and Kari Jobe’s “Healer” minister to me in times that I needed strength. Will I have danced on the platform was singing “Pentecostal style” songs, and stood solemnly in the congregation holding an old hymnal.
Here is what I have learned from my long and broad experience: there are people in all congregations who do not participate in worship. It seems that everyone (who does not worship) has their reason why they will not worship. It seems to me that if the “music is too loud”, or “the songs are not the ones you are used to singing,” is preventing you from celebrating what God has done for you, and thanking Him for who He is and what He has done, then maybe the problem isn’t the music.
Selah…
When the worship leaders – ministers, choir, instrumentalists, vocalists – are more about performance than leading worship, then the congregation will respond as an audience not a congregation.
When the music is written for soloists – by style, range, rhythm, or lyrics – then the congregation will feel excluded.
Service music is to gather and invite and move and escort the congregation into worship and should reinforce the message and theme of the worship service.
A worship service should be a journey with a variety of worshipful experiences. For most congregations and most services, it should not be only exuberant exultation and it should not be only exclamatory exhortation and it should not be only quiet meditation and introspection. We are seekers and travelers and the service music needs to accompany us and inspire us on our journey.
I am a music teacher who attends a traditional service where older hymns are still sung and hymnals are still available in the pews. That being said, when my husband and I were dating, he attended a contemporary church which I visited many times with him. I tried to participate in the singing, but found it nearly impossible for many of the reasons the author listed above. I love to sing and would love to add my voice to the mix (not that you would hear it), but how do you expect me to sing when you provide me with nothing more than the lyrics? These are new pieces, and you have given me no way to know what the melody is. I had other issues with the worship music, though. I hated feeling like my offering was actually my admission price to the rock concert I was being subjected to. My ears should not be ringing when I leave the service. Many of the songs were so poorly constructed that they were little more than the same 3 or 4 lines of lyrics repeated ad nauseum. Additionally, I got the strong sense that the people “on stage” were way more about their own personal glory than praising God. I wish I could say that it was just that particular church, but we have gone to other contemporary services and I have had much the same experience. I understand that everyone needs to find their own way to God, but for me, the whole rock concert thing just didn’t do it. I felt so isolated from what was going on up on stage, and didn’t feel like I was in the presence of the Lord at all. I’m much more content in my home church with my hymnal, with music that I can read and execute even if I am unfamiliar with the hymns we are singing that day…after all, there are a lot of hymns in a hymnal! Bonus, I don’t feel like the choir is full of wannabe rock stars performing for their own personal glory…
People are saved through the preaching of the Gospel. Many of the new Christian songs place more of an emphasis on us and how we feel. If ministers began to preach and teach the Bible more instead of seeking to be relevant, churches might not feel the need to work to be relevant to younger generations.
What does it mean to preach and teach the Bible in an irrelevant way? Or instead, what is the point of the Gospel if not to be relevant to our lives?
Concerned Christian (@southernmaria1),
What follows below are the lyrics for the current #1 Billboard Contemporary Christian Song in America.
I grew up however singing great hymns written by people like Fanny Crosby, John Newton, Ira Sankey, Charles Wesley and others. If you can identify an objective lyrical content, message or artistic difference between those of 100+ years ago and the example below, please do.
“Oceans (Where Feet May Fail)”
You call me out upon the waters
The great unknown where feet may fail
And there I find You in the mystery
In oceans deep
My faith will stand
And I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine
Your grace abounds in deepest waters
Your sovereign hand
Will be my guide
Where feet may fail and fear surrounds me
You’ve never failed and You won’t start now
So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine
[6x]
Spirit lead me where my trust is without borders
Let me walk upon the waters
Wherever You would call me
Take me deeper than my feet could ever wander
And my faith will be made stronger
In the presence of my Savior
I will call upon Your name
Keep my eyes above the waves
My soul will rest in Your embrace
I am Yours and You are mine
Great article. For everyone who says “well my church doesn’t do that…” Don’t be rude. This article is simply stating a trend. Also, I think it applies mostly to larger churches with contemporary styles, which is implied in some of the article’s reasoning.
We just launched a “contemporary” service at my large church, and I thought that we would sing–but it’s the opposite. At the traditional service, everyone sings and mostly stands. At the contemporary service, we just kind of sit and watch. I love contemporary music, but I’m also a Millennial–which means I need to participate in worship through standing and singing. It’s like worship has become for entertainment value alone.
WOW YOUR CHURCH IS WAY BETTER THAN MINE. OBVIOUSLY we have a theological issue that yours resolves. Geeze.
Man are you right on. So we’ll stated…and this is an expression of why old Christian guys don’t enjoy going to church anymore…If you were raised in the mid America Bible Belt anyhow.. Thanks for the statements. ..dlb
I like hymns and I like the contemporary “praise music” but this article is really disturbing… My hubby and I are missionaries and while on deputation the conservative hymns only churches didn’t even know the words to most of the hymns they’ve been singing since the church opened. The people needed a hymnal or the words up on the screen- I saw people who told me that they had been in church over 50 years stumble to sing the world to “Amazing Grace” without the words in front of them!
We also went to churches that did “modern worship” and the sang without words in a hymnal or on the screen and they knew every word! In my opinion that show who is really applying the music to their lives! Again this is not in all churches and I like both hymns and the modern worship but this article is pretty far from what I have encountered in the 12 months I was on deputation and the over 300 churches I visited/attended!
A very thought provoking article with some great responses. I started my ministry in a very small, traditional church with the old hymns sung to just a piano if we had someone to play it. I still love the old the old hymns. We had people then who just would not sing. I serve in a large contemporary church now with the praise band and I love the new songs. We have people now who just won’t sing. And the way I look at it … the style and method of corporate worship is left to freedom in the bible so the people who won’t sing are missing out on a great opportunity to worship.
I read this as well and my view is…it’s all about focus. If you’re at a sporting event and your son, grandson, daughter, granddaughter or favorite player scores the winning point in the last minute of the game, you will most likely be out of your seat shouting praises, well done, way to go to that person and you will probably be clapping your hands not giving a second thought to the people around you or their thoughts of your actions why… You’re focused and in tune with that person you’re cheering for. It’s an involuntary action that happens. During praise and worship I sing very loud and pity the people in front of me but, it must not be to bad they sit there every Sunday morning (lol). That is My time with God My time to praise him My time to worship him. As far as the song choice goes I have actually been moved to tears by a secular song because I was thing of God during that moment. Even though the song was not referring to God but about a man or woman in love, in my mind I was singing that song of love to my God. I have been in the place for many years being a pianist and song leader of trying to please everyone. It simply cannot be done. After a church service once I was approached by four separate people who wanted to give their opinions of that mornings worship time. One told me it was too loud, one told me they couldn’t hear me it needed to be turned up, one ask if we could throw a few old hymns in there, and the last person told me they were blessed it really moved them to tears and they felt the presence of God. Who do you think out of these four people were focused on God that morning? I’ve been to churches across the USA Baptist, Methodist, Assemblies of God, etc. They all have a very different style of worship. Some use hymn books and some use projectors. Some use organs or pianos and some use full bands but I can always come away having worshiped my God that morning because, that’s my time with God and I have to focus on him. Sorry it’s so long…have a blessed day 🙂
All too true. This is not what Martin Luther intended when he separated from the pulpit driven Catholic ceremony.
What can be done about this? How can we restore congregational participation without being critical or divisive?
Part of a worship leader’s job to set an atmosphere of participation…accapella singing, familiar songs, access to hymnals as well as screens for words….
There are folks out there who’s eye sight cannot see the screens.
A mixture of new & old…is there better theology than “Holy, Holy, Holy”?
I love to sing & have decided NOTHING will deter my praise and sometimes it’s a challenge 🙂
Pray dilligetly for your worship leaders and perhaps even volunteer to be involved!
Thom, there is much in your blog post that I would like to comment on, however I will limit myself to your thoughts on Professionalism.
I have been involved in video and television production for thirty-four years both within the church as well as in the marketplace. The churches I come alongside span the range from smaller local congregations and mega-sized churches as well as television ministries with 10 million viewers per week. The secular productions I work on span everything from smaller shows you may not have heard of, to well known day-time syndicated talk shows, to the highest rated prime-time entertainment specials and award shows.
On secular productions I have never been pulled aside by an Executive Producer and asked, “Don’t shoot the lead guitarist during a solo.” Or asked by a network programming executive, “Don’t shoot the lead singer.” No, the executives and producers understand that the tool of video should not just be used to make bigger what is occurring on stage (with projection screens so the audience can see), but to make better what is occurring on stage. My job as a video professional is to be story teller and if the lead guitarist or lead vocalist are part of the story to be told, then they need to have appropriate camera-time. As a Christian, my mission is not only to make art good, but also to make good art.
Yet some Christian leaders are quick to ask (in private, when no one else can hear) that “the story” of their church service or special event be edited to not include (or diminish the role of) their own worship leader. Some feel using video during worship is a “distraction.” Others fear it “elevates” man over God, or that it forces our “worship” to be directed toward the created instead of the Creator. If true, then why is it that using video during the teaching/preaching is not a distraction then? Does our worship end when the band stops playing? The argument is inconsistent and shows a lack of understanding as to the Biblical definition of worship.
Thom, I would submit to you that it is not the “professionalism” of Christian musicians which is discouraging congregations from engaging in corporate worship. If the congregation is not worshipping, there is something else going on which needs to be addressed (Eph 6:12).
Would you agree with me that the sacred works of J.S. Bach or Handel have been used to lead thousands of Christians in worship over the span of hundreds of years? Are these great works and the artists who authored them not “professional” in every sense? Yet, if these great masters were alive today and despite the fact that they even signed their manuscripts “s.D.g.” (the latin abbreviation for Soli Deo Gloria, “to God alone glory!”) I have no doubt that some Christian leaders would ask “Please do not shoot Johann,” or “keep George Frideric off camera.”
Do you expect your preacher/teacher to study during the week in preparation for preaching? Do you expect your preacher/teacher to organize their thoughts in an outline? Some even write out or memorize their entire sermon. Do you expect your preacher/teacher to use language skillfully, so the efficacy of the message is not diminished? Do you expect your preacher/teacher to led by the Holy Spirit during this entire process including the skillful delivery of the message?
If, as you contend, “quality is worshipped,” then the more polished a worship leader is the more engaged an audience naturally will be. Yet the premise of your blog post is that congregants are not engaging in worship because the professionalism of the worship leader is getting in the way. This again is contradicting.
The standard for “professionalism” for the worship leader should be no different than that of the teaching pastor and visa versa.
I recently returned to church after a 30 year plus absense, music is different yes, music is louder yes, but I don’t sing because the words are so moving and I don’t want to lie to God. If my heart is so torn how can I sing about the goodness of god and his people when until recently I only saw the judgement and harshness. Maybe some don’t sing because it is worship and they don’t want to lie to almighty god, someday you will see me singing and know that my heart is healed and I mean the words. Thanks you wrote a great article.
Blaming someone or something else for why you are not worshiping is not going to solve the problem. It all comes down to the heart of the worshiper. We are called to worship in everything we do. It’s a lifestyle, not just something that’s done during the music portion of the church service. Once we incorporate true worship into every part of our lives, lifting our voices and praising our God can become as natural as breathing.
I am old……but far from closed minded…I am not against praise songs…but why throw the hymn book in the rubbish can? Why can’t
we use both on a regular basis? I use to lead camp fire chorus sing a longs. Had to give them up.. No one knew the chorus any more!!! And they don’t know the praise songs with out them projected on the wall!!!.
The comments here pretty much break my heart. The prevailing theme: “everything has to be done the way I like it or I cannot worship.”
Selfishness expressing itself as narcissism in the guise of spiritual superiority. As a creative ministries pastor, this is an ugly truth I deal with every week, from all sides.
Worship is not about getting us in a mood or tickling our ears or making us feel better worship is for God. if you have to have smoke and drums, lights and mirrors, to “get your praise on” then most likely you are not praising God you are praising yourself for praising God. by the same token if you get disturbed because you have been asked to sing a song written after 1975 and your nostalgic bone hasn’t been adequately tickled then again you are in error. both of these worship experiences amount to spiritual masturbation. anytime we approach worship with the goal of self pleasure we are in the wrong. what we should be doing is looking for how we can please God. God has been curiously silent on what worship style he prefers. how simple it would be if we had a mandate in scripture to only sing southern Gospel, or to only rap unto the Lord, or only with screaming guitars shall you approach him in worship. while the scriptures are utterly silent on musical styles in worship, it is not silent on what the heart of a worshiper should be like, or the attitude of a worshiper, or the posture of a worshiper. The problem as I see it begins with the pastor. are pastors preaching about what worship is and what it is not, or do they see worship as the carrot for their all important stick. worship has been happening for 6000 years it is not a style it is an act of obedience.
In reading the posts, I realized how divided the masses are….I never cared for opera…..that is not my taste in music……nor is loud rock music, etc etc..but I did grow up in a musical family and inherited some of it…I liked the Big Band era of music but I don’t care for the type Bands we have in the church, I have to leave if it is too loud and what is too loud for me is not too loud for others……people are at different levels of music that minister to them and especially in this day–it effects the church……there are those that don’t sing because they don’t like the music, some bcu they aren’t able to sing anymore (that is me) and there are many that don’t feel so joyful bcu they are going through a crisis in their life or are so exhausted and they are in need of listening to some good soothing uplifting music…It would get me going if we sang Amazing Grace, Victory in Jesus and When we all get to Heaven every Sunday and there are those that could care less if we never sang them. Give me a good piano arrangement with a violin to prepare my heart for worship and others would like the guitars and drums…..only God has the solution. We need to pray for our Worship leaders.
Worship is about God and our worship and honor of Him. I would have to say this is just one symptom of the big issue. In America church attendance is declining. People are turning away from God. This is not a simple issue and we are giving many excuses. The truth is: we need to truly turn to God. When our hearts are broken for Him we will honor Him as He directs. We won’t be able to help ourselves. It is something that simply bubbles forth from within.
I love to sing, my husband does as well but in mega churches we get lost. We want to be a part of ministry not just stare at it
Lame article that’s anti contemporary worship….How dare we fault the worship leader and technical end of things because we can’t get a congregation to sing to The Lord!! Really??? The problem is we’ve become a generation that wants church to be like every thing else. The way we want it!! Like shopping for a car! We have lost a heart for worship. A heart that made David sing and dance before The Lord!!! “Worship” is not how well we can hear ourselves sing. It’s worshiping an amazing God!! And side note, heaven will be loud just saying! Sorry. Lame article that misleads people and causes those with ill feelings towards the next generation of worship to cultivate those hard feelings! Really sad! Heaven is going to suprise so many!!
I hate to argue with the author; he seems to be a very accomplished man, but I have to disagree with the majority of his statements. I am an audio engineer that has had the opportunity to travel around the country, ministering in hundreds of congregations of different denominations, cultures and races. In my observations, it comes down to one thing: the heart. The Bible says Jesus puts a new song in our heart. I’ve been in the most professional of contemporary churches where the music was blasting from a band, and the congregation sang out loud and strong. On the other hand, I have been in the most conservative of congregations as well, where all you could here is the diminished voice of the song leader coming through the small sound system. It all depends on the heart of the people, and can’t be predicted. Much of this is established from the leadership of the church; they help steer the hearts of their people. Occasionally, I will agree with the author, people don’t know the words. But, that’s usually not the case. It’s in the heart.
A needed conversation, bro. I am a worship pastor and this trend has not gone unnoticed in my own life or church life.
I like your last statement… “I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation.”
I truly believe it is my responsibility to do everything I can by God’s grace and wisdom to create these types of environments. And sometimes I do ok at it. And sometimes it appears I do not.
In my opinion this is not an “either/or” issue. It’s a “both/and” issue.
Either the worshippers on stage should make the environment highly conducive to a worship encounter between God and His Church OR the worshippers on the other side of the stage should just not participate???
Nope.
BOTH the worshippers on stage should make the environment highly conducive to a worship encounter between God and His Church AND the worshippers on the other side of the stage should participate.
I’m pretty sure the environment was pretty lousy in the dungeon Paul and Silas were in from the account in Acts 16. Yet they pressed beyond the barriers to bring their offering of praise. Conversely, in 2 Samuel 6, the environment of worship was on fire as King David and His caravan of praise are celebrating a victory and literally carrying God”s presence with them and the streets are lined with myriads of worshippers… but Michal could not press through her own perceived barriers and bring anything other than criticism.
Bottom line, I don’t control anyone else’s worship but my own. Although I will have to answer to God for whether I stewarded the worship set to His preferences with a heart to equip, serve, and empower my brothers and sisters to give their hearts a place to connect with Him, I ultimately answer for whether MY heart was an offering. Not yours or anyone else’s. When i’m in the congregation at a Hillsong concert, I don’t want to let the worship team love on God for me, just because they do it with excellence. I’m determined to adore my King right then and there… loud volumes and bright lights and beautiful video screens and all. Because He’s not impressed or moved by those things… He’s moved by the worship rising from my own heart in the midst of the crowd. Even though my “2 copper coins” worth of worship seems small compared to the other external offerings in the crowd, Jesus takes notice when I give sacrificially.
Hebrews 13:15 “Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.”
Amen and amen.
Super good points. Powerful and straight forward. Why didn’t YOU write this article?
I’m not a pastor. I’m not a worship leader. I’m a church-goer. My heart is in the right place. I want to worship. It’s one of my favorite things about Sunday morning. I try to sing to all the songs. But when it’s really hard to sing, I feel annoyed rather than worshipful. I enjoy learning a new song–but it has to be easy to sing. Again, I LOVE worship. But I enjoy it most when it’s a song that I can really focus on the words and worshipping the Lord–which means it has to have a catchy tune and easy to sing vocally. When it’s hard to sing, I’m unable to concentrate on what really matters. I see less people singing when the song is hard to sing. Less hands raised, too. Less worshipping. When the song is one we all know and love (and no, it doesn’t have to be a hymn), or one that is really easy to catch-on–this is when I see the worship at it’s highest level.
I was simply stating my opinion on the blog post and why I believe some people don’t sing. No need to read into it and be offensive to me or assume my intent. I do volunteer for my church, and I work for a faith-based organization full time. It saddens me that my simple comments caused you to judge me without even knowing who I am.
Well folks, I am an agnostic brought-up in the Lutheran tradition. I have a good singing voice (a blessing). I feel the old chestnuts sung often bring all the congregation to enjoy singing. Fye upon the constant obeisance to “new”. What I heard before I can enjoy. Away with all electronics except the organ. . I am also irrelevant by most standards. I’m 81 years old.
There was a book describing much of this phenomenon about 25 years ago: Why Catholics Can’t sing by Dr. Thomas Day. Among Catholics, there are rare pinnacles of exceptional worship (which includes music) found in the Church, but it is otherwise surrounded by a vast wasteland of amateurish, clock-watching, uninspired, synthetic/corporately-produced “music” that cries out to God for vengeance. When the history of Church music is written in generations to come, I expect that the late 20th and early 21st century epoch will be an interesting, but widely-criticized era of self-indulgent “me too” efforts that will pave the way for a collapse of many congregational-ecclesial trends stemming all the way back to the Reformation, and usher in a new era of ressourcement in worship practices, not only to the greater honor and glory of God, but also the building of a more faithful, more engaged Church.
I was a song leader at a church that sang without the aid of instruments. I was amazed at the number of people that weren’t singing. Some individuals that weren’t singing I knew that they had lovely voices. Still makes no sense to me.
I am greatly disappointed when I come to worship and can’t sing because I don’t know the song. I want to know all the songs. If the new choruses repeat endlessly, I also quit singing after repeating the same line 11 times. ( Did God not hear me the first 11 times??) I love the loud music because you can’t hear my joyful noise. Words on the screen are great when the media person keeps up and shows the correct screen. If I don’t like the performance on stage, I can close my eyes and still worship. Christian radio is awesome for teaching new worship songs. The music is a very important part of the total worship experience but the most important part is the preaching of the word. It is a mountain-top experience when you come to church and get both.
Lack of participation in corporate worship is not necessarily a symptom of a rapidly degrading church culture. In fact, I think there is another factor that plays into this “non-singing” phenomenon, that can actually be an indicator of a healthy church. It all depends of course on the focus of whatever church body is being talked about. For instance, my church has a focus and a passion for reaching those far from God. People who maybe have never been to church before, or were “burned” by a bad church experience earlier in life. If church has never been a part of their life before, they don’t know what a “worship experience” looks like. Not to mention, how they are going to go about finding their place in that dynamic and participate. If more and more people are coming through the doors each week that have never been to church, then the percentage of people that don’t know how to “do” worship is getting greater all the time. Thus it may seem from an “experienced worshiper’s” perspective that more and more people are losing touch, or not participating. I lead worship on a regular basis and see this all the time. It might look like a lot of people are standing there staring at me, when the church as a whole is reaching more people than ever before. It then becomes even that much more important to establish a “culture of worship” and make the weekend worship experience as accessible as possible to the “new worshiper” by being intentional from the stage during the service. Teaching people easy to learn songs and choosing songs with simple, theologically sound lyrics. We are always looking for new ways to “teach people how to worship”, making it as easy as possible for new Christ followers to find their place (and voice) in a new, sometimes unnerving and scary environment for them.
After reading the article and a few of the comments, especially JD’s about catering to the old vs catering to the young, I would like to just simply address the fact that we shouldn’t be catering to anyone in particular!! We are supposed to go there, not for entertainment and not for our own braggishness about how good we can do something, but to worship the Lord the way the Bible describes worship from the first century and in a very humble manner!
GOD, not mankind, spelled it out in the New Testament; just because we have invented electricity and musical instruments that blare with amplifiers doesn’t mean that our human additions are pleasing to God!! God, the all knowing, would have known that our human discoveries were coming and if He had wanted it another way here in the 21st century, he would have put an addendum at the end of Revalation that said, “Oh, and in 2014 it’ll be okay to add the band and the choir because you humans will know better what I want than I do!”
People, God wants to hear YOU singing with the whole congregation whether you can carry a tune or not! He said make a joyful noise alright, but to sing and make melody in your heart: NOT on the piano, NOT with electric guitars, NOT with “professional singers” or choirs doing it for us. To sing to worship God IS a commandment from God. To have someone else do it for us and add anything to the worship that wasn’t used or commanded in the New Testament is a human addition that is OUR own interest and OUR own human belief that it improves on what God commanded… are we really that good that we can improve on the Almighty’s commands??
People don’t sing along with songs they don’t know on the radio (or with karaoke) either! Just putting the words up on the screen doesn’t cause the melody and/or harmony to magically osmose into my brain. Attempting to compensate by choosing songs that repeat the same (cheesy) lines, again and again, doesn’t really draw me into singing along! Don’t misconstrue this as a vote to “only choose 4-part harmony old-fashioned hymns”. Consider making the majority of song choices those that are familiar. Introduce new ones sparingly, if you wish people to feel included in the singing.
Just look at how wonderfully our enemy has caused division over a matter that should draw us closer to God.
Seriously, are we still arguing about worship music in the church? How many years has this debate been around? Worship is how we live to glorify God, right? So why spend so much time arguing about the 25 mins on a Sunday morning?
In a very professional setting such as Chris Tomlin concert or Passion Conference, they do almost everything the author of this article suggest against, and yet in my experience people worshiped and sang out to God in those events. At the same time, I have stood next to someone who participated in worship while the music wasn’t that good and without proper lighting.
My point is: don’t just blame the way local churches producing worship music. Ask the people who don’t sing, “Are you reading your Bible and praying the other 6 days of the week?” If they don’t walk with God regularly, no way they can jump into fully worship on Sunday morning.
For those of us who believe, we are accountable for how we worship regardless of our circumstances. Paul sang hymns even in prison, I personally don’t care if you think the music is too professional and people looking like stars on stage, you worship regardless of all that. And if you really can’t worship in those “professional setting”, I see two options: 1) Ask God to deal with whatever it is in your heart, or 2) Go to another church quietly and don’t gossip about it. In my opinion, option 1 is better because you commit to a local church for reasons more than music.
I agree that there should be NO arguement: God commanded a certain way and that means there is ONLY ONE WAY… Anything else is human belief that it is better than God’s way; which again, we as humans cannot improve on God’s wishes and desires!
I don’t understand why people can’t see the other biblical examples of this: Had Noah used Oak or Cedar or Mahogany instead of Gopher wood for the Ark (God’s command) would he have been spared?
Nadab and Abihu were stricken dead in the tabernacle because they believed they knew better than God by offering “strange fire” or incense in the tabernacle and God was specific about what He wanted.
Lot’s wife, out of human compassion, turned to see the destruction of the city where she had lived even though she and the family had been commanded to “not look back”: God didn’t hesitate and she was destroyed for disobeying God’s direct and specific command!
Even in Proverbs it says that there is a way that seems right unto man but ultimately leadeth to his destruction.
As parents, do we not follow through if our children disobey us? If not I can sure rant and rave about what’s wrong with America’s youth today!!
Why is music any different? If God says this is the way but yet we humans think we can add to or take away from his commandments, why should we expect to be accepted of Him when we are usurping his Deity by implementing our own human will?
If I told you that by standing on the corner of 5th and main everyday from 3:30 to 5:00, rain or shine, hot or cold and stand out there singing songs that all start with the letter “L” and at the end of one month you would receive $25 million dollars, would you not follow it to the letter??? Would you really take the chance on not showing up, or not being there during the allotted time period or singing whatever you wanted and not just songs that started with the letter “L”? Would you really take that chance that your own will wouldn’t cost you that $25 mil??
Heaven and all that God has assured those that follow His commands is worth so much more than that!!! But people left and right are changing God’s commands to fit their own will and desires and are willing to throw it all away!!! Jesus said it best in Matthew 7: There will be those that say Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name and done many wonderful things in your name?? And I will say unto them, I know you not, depart from me ye that work iniquity….
Aaron, in the late 1970’s and early 80’s when I came to a personal faith in Jesus Christ I was told by the church leaders where I attended that it was all but impossible to live a life pleasing to God and be a musician. Well, that may be an exaggeration. More accurately, I was told that unless I played “sacred music” (or the Gaithers, or the Imperials, Ralph Carmichael, or Maranatha Praise, etc.) and a few others, it would not be pleasing to God. Certainly, anything considered “secular music” was verboten.
The end result was despite a being gifted young musician, with a 4.0 GPA as a music major in college, I eventually dropped out of school and stopped playing music altogether. So, I am sympathetic to your frustration that that “we still arguing about worship music in the church?”
I think however the debate has grown past arguing about worship music. When we strip away the various layers the conversation is not about musical styles or even about professionalism. I think it’s really about excellence.
Is excellence unauthentic? Is excellence unspiritual? Is excellence worldly? Is excellence a distraction?
A couple thoughts that came to me after reading the article and a few of the comments:
Hymns came at a time–and thrived as long as–there was one cohesive culture. America and West Europe are multi-cultural, and the plethora of musical choices means we’re looking for something different. No style is really gonna make everyone happy in worship, just as there is no one radio station that makes everyone happy.
People get amped and show emotion in our culture at places like sporting events and concerts, but we don’t go to those things very often. Most of us simply can’t afford season tickets, and those that do ten to be less demonstrative. In a weekly setting it’s much harder to get amped every time.
Also, worship services seem more about control then unleashing, at least at most of the places I’ve been to. Truth be told, most of christian sub culture has a control theme to it. In worship the signs of control are tactile: it looks like compression racks that are plugged into the sound system to clip mics and intruments when they hit a certain level. It looks like in-ear monitors. It looks like electric drums.
If we expect people to unleash as in a sporting event, but demand limitors, we seem a bit silly. As a professional sound guy and 20 year band member I’m not advocating for too-loud services; I prefer to control my live drum kit by not hittin’ it so hard. I also would love to have about 4 other drums in worship, some accoustic guitars, and a lot of singing. But if it doesn’t ever go my way I’ll still show up and play, because music is one of my primary God connections.
There have been times when I ‘poo-pooed’ my mother-in-law’s church for banning instrumental music. All A’Capella. I am now re-thinking the beauty of the simplicity of non-instrumental (although I wrestle with the thought of NOT allowing others to present their praise via musical instrument talent). There must be a balance somehow.
Dave, I may never see you reply to this or anyone else for that matter, but please know: A’Capella (no insturments) is what was in New Testament worship and the word itself means “as in the church”. So when people sing A’Capella and use no instrumental accompaniment, they are singing, “as in the church”!
EC,
Does this mean that I shouldn’t play an instrument when I sing the Psalms like David did?
“I admit. I’ve joined the majority. I’ve stopped singing. I’m not happy about it. I know I should overcome these barriers and just praise the Lord with my very unprofessional vocalizations. But I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation.”
You raise some legitimate concerns. You also show a certain personal cynicism in, if nothing else, this last paragraph. At the end of the day, we are each supposed to be worshipers, not joining the majority and giving up. Worship is centered on and finds its foundation in the “Who” of worship, not in the “how”- though there is a lot of Biblical instruction for the “how.” I encourage you to check your tone and heart if you’d hope to make a real difference where the problems are legitimate. The blanket-statement cranky post above surely isn’t going to edify worship leaders or the Church.
Excuses…
Just turn down the volume so we can hear ourselves instead of just the performance.
Here is a great article with a different perspective:
http://garagebandtheatre.blogspot.com/2014/05/worship-climate-change-crisis-does-it.html?fb_action_ids=10203572883259862&fb_action_types=og.likes
Worship is a lifestyle, not 4 songs on a Sunday! Get over yourselves 😁
We as church leaders decided to have “church” services for the unchurched, and why would the unchurched worship God? Plus we don’t lead people to worship; we tell them to sing. So sad.
Greg Hall… YES! This is article you posted what exactly what I was thinking while reading the above one. My church has seasons where the congregation sings loudly and others where they don’t seem as involved. Depending on the song etc.. We have a loud band, modern feel, lights and cool new songs (hardly ever hymns….sad, for some of us I know ….but reality) … BUT reading this article above I felt totally like they weren’t hanging out where I worship… I sit in the front row and often the congregation singing behind me overpowers the loud band! Yes, people still sing in church, when they are passionate about worship, when it is done with excellence, when they are encouraged to do so, when they know the songs (and they are good songs), when there is a culture that invites it. Sometimes when we have done a lot of outreach and have a lot of new unchurched people we find there is less singing, but we are thrilled with that, as those people integrate into the church, they tend to start singing along. 🙂
It has been my experience (in the exact same service) when a large choir is singing, facing the congregation, more people participate vs. when a handful of praise team members are on stage singing. The style of music doesn’t seem to have as much impact as the number of people the congregation members feel they have singing with them. Thank you Thom for reminding and encouraging us to think about such things.
Yeah Greg, that was a very well written article! It seems a lot like what I was thinking.
The problem is, like so many things in life, church, and even God, have become all about “me.” What pleases “me,” what makes “me” happy, what makes “me” feel good, is the standard of today even in our church pews. When the melody comes from the joy in our hearts about the Lord “Our” God, we will not care what the song tempo or style is, we will worship the Living God with all our hearts, souls, and minds. 🙂
i think they need to add the absence of choirs in contemporary churches. mainly because its cheaper to have 4 or 6 people on mics, then 100 people in choir robes, trying to mic their sound properly. so it limits the opportunity to sing.
i also agree that the worship should not be geared to just one generation, but a blend. the church i went to has an ancient sound system. they have turned praise and worship over to the youth, with no mentors. as a result you have mics soo loud there is feedback, and excessive volume. of course the youth love it, but first the other age groups started leaving as their ears can’t handle the music then the youth themselves, as once again there is only room for a max of 4 people to sing. they never rotate out, and if one is absent, they just do without instead of filling a position, so there is no room for growth.
i tried just coming in late, but not being able to worship with everyone else was torture, i was drying up inside. now we go to a church that has loud music still, but not soo hot that it is squealing/feedbacking. they rotate out the singers, and they are all colors, sizes and AGES. also this pastor loves hymns, and will break out in one, so all ages are learning them. we didn’t have christian radio or contemporary growing up, it was the hymns. its great to be able to tap into the vast memory bank that i have of them 🙂 they also like to drop out on the mics during worship so we can hear all of us singing together, i think that’s how it should be, to HIS glory.
All we have at my is praise and choral music and it gets really old really fast. Same ole stuff that no one wants to sing. What happened to the Southern Gospel music that use to come from the churches? Now it is all electric key boards and very loud mostly a semi professional singing when there is an actual song. I miss the stuff I grew up with 20 years ago. I am only 49 and would love to hear some good old fashioned singing in my church.
I’m sad to say this, but you are right on target. In our ministry, we are in many different churches. I just shared with one of our ushers in our home church a few weeks ago that the louder the music, the less the congregation actually participates in singing. We’ve observed this repeatedly in many churches. Of course, some have shared the words of Jesus, “If it’s too loud, you’re too old.”
The enemy loves it when we disagree about something that should unite us the most. Most young have no opinion about hymns. They’ve never or seldom heard them.
I love this article! If you read in Acts, the NT church had simple worship: singing as a congregation, taking the Lord’s Supper weekly, giving of their means, praying and studying the word of God. There are still churches that worship by following the simple examples in the Bible. I tell people before they visit my lovely congregation that it isn’t exciting like a rock concert, it is exciting because we are there to worship Jesus. Jesus is the excitement!!
I didn’t read all the comments so otheres may have already said this but one major one is loss of true love for God. We all too often talk about methodology. There is always something to that but it does not replace the Holy Spirit moving in someone’s life. We are living in days like Jeremiah’s. People don’t have a heart for God. The Holy Spirit isn’t moving. Tell me one passage of scripture that speaks of methodology? There is none. In the days of King David they had professionals preparing and performing music. Methodology isn’t the problem, the heart of the NON worshiper is.
Just my opinion but I think the phenomena is more the result of the the Exodus effect, the we want you to talk to God and hear what we should do and tell us so we don’t have to interact with Him or pursue relationship. We then reinforce that with our public school systems style of be quiet and listen as you are told what to think. It seems a natural continuation of all of this; that when we are told its time for us to communally worship, the church as a generality stands around waiting for the leaders to worship God,and with luck we watch the spectacle.
Worship is a natural by product of relationship with an amazing and perfect God.. Unfortunately we are all guilty at least in western culture (the only one I’m personally acquainted with) we have fallen in line with the pay the minister, and if we are a big church the other entertainers to take THE PURPOSE OF OUR BEING, away from us and to let them feed us ever smaller bite sized pieces of the already UNFATHOMABLE GREATNESS of THE GREATEST Love we can ever experience. We have chosen fear over love and it is showing.
So what, Mr. Schultz, is your solution? Going back to the 1970s or 1980s? Singing only Hymns with no new music at all? Worship is a choice. I am 57 years old, and I have learned the new songs, I sing them and I worship. Because it’s not about me or what I like or don’t like. It’s about Jesus, and He deserves my worship and praise whether I like the song, or the volume or not. I really question your motivation with an article like this. You have successfully fueled the fires of New vs Old, Youth vs Age….as if that fire needed more fuel. God help you.
Yea, churches that use hymnals die
I think I know you slider LOL
I think the style of music in church is a preference as said many time here. I personally like the hymns and the music by Bill Gaither, Lackey, etc. If the sound doesn’t touch your soul, it might as well be rock and roll. Again, just my opinion, contemporary music does not produce a spirit of worship. If you don’t feel it, it has done you not good.
That’s not true at the churches I go to.
If this article was describing the typical denominational worship service, I would completely agree.
Most of the time, people don’t enter into worship because they have not been taught properly on the topic. That’s why I addressed the subject in depth in an article on my own WordPress blog at: http://wp.me/p15DpX-1io
No matter how you look at it, what you do, or what your preference, lazy worship is not worship at all.
Sorry to say this and said in love as a passionate congregation worshipper but get over yourself!!!!!!
Worship is not about you it’s about Him! If you can’t stop being critical about the music or style I suggest the problem isn’t with the worship it’s with you and you need to rediscover why you are there and your love and passion for God again.
And no I’m not just a new fired up Christian I’ve been worshipping this way for 12 years now. Why? Because He is worthy of my heartfelt praise. I’ve worshiped in places with technically excellent musicians and also in the middle of Africa with just a keyboard and 20 voices and they are both just as powerful to me. Again why? Because my attitude to it was this is a sacrifice of praise to God and I’ll worship in spirit and truth. Not because I ‘felt’ like it that day I’ve worshipped and wept many times because of difficult situations I’ve been going through but He is worthy all the time not just when I feel good.
Anyone who reads this blog and agrees with it please rediscover your love for Jesus!
While I agree with this completely. I feel compelled to so that there are a lot of “worship” songs out there that talk more about, “me” than “Him”. I particularly get thrown out of a worship mindset so fast when I comprehend lyrics that speak about me, myself, and I, repeatedly instead of simply worshiping God. Since worship is about the heart and mindset of the worshiper, more attention should be paid to that. However, since many modern worship songs are designed to evoke and emotional response from the worshiper it is difficult to truly being a worshipful mindset focused on God if the lyrics are all about me.
I see a lot of judgement on this page, assumptions being made, and outright mean things being said about worship leaders and worshippers. Sad, sad. Please just love. Name calling and judging others and their intent isn’t what this is about.
Missy T; After reading your earlier posts, I would like to take a moment to apologize for what you have run into. You said something about coming back after a long absence. May I ask you to do something? I would like to ask you, first, to stop reading this! It has so much more anger, resentment, even hatred than you need, and once again, I am sorry you are reading these things rather than God’s grace. This is supposed to be about, and by, people who know His grace, instead it is filled with arguments and frustration which causes even more frustration.
I would also like to ask you to read Romans. Every day. It is a letter, so it needs to be read in it’s entirety. However, when you read it, please start by asking God what is there for you; what does God need for you to see? It is a very deep letter, and you will not understand it all the first time through! I have been reading it for about 20 years, and have yet to read it without finding something I never saw before! Not because I skipped it before, or just didn’t notice it. Rather, because God’s word is very much alive! As we grow and mature, He reveals more to us, and helps us to apply it to our lives.
Seek His Face, He will reveal it!
I promise, actually, God promises!
I often have to wonder if the lack of participation also stems from congregation leaders not really spending the time on teaching their congregations about the importance, purpose, and reason for worship. While I agree with the content of the article, it has been my observation that many Christians have never really been taught or had worship defined for them. Especially since there are dozens of words in the Bible translated to worship, from a soft personal prayer, to a loud roar and dance. Ultimately worship is a condition of the heart and our primary function as Christians is to glorify God, which we do through worship and lovingly serving others.
Our Pastor said, “you don’t like the songs? buy a CD!” Kinda like flipping you the bird…
I believe the reason for this disconnect is because too many churches get hung up on “whose way of worshipping is right” vs “who are we worshipping?” The issue is not whether or not to do hymns. The issue is “why do we do the songs we do?” Whether it’s a new song or old song, upbeat or ballad, chorus or hymn… it is all noise if it is not to love and glorify God.
Honestly, I don’t believe professionalism is a factor in all this either. One, why wouldn’t we want to give God our best? Two, this mentality has been true long before our current generation of churches. For example, Handel’s Messiah. What an incredible song! Still, long before today’s “non-singing church” people practiced it and practiced it and practiced it to be sure we gave God the best we could… that’s professionalism.
I’ve consulted for many churches including church plants and denominational churches, and the common argument I find quite often is in regard to the style of the music as well as the worship leader’s leading style. However, in every case, as we would teach and grow in our understanding of worship, all those arguments soon begin to fade awat
I’m just making an observation from my experience. I always sing in church, but really do not notice whether others in the congregation are singing or not. I’m kind of doing my own thing. However, in other situations when I am “on the stage” and observing the audience such as leading a meeting or teaching an adult class, the looks on the faces of the audience is like “OK here we are, entertain us”. I also participated in a hometown parade and did the smiling and waving thing. In general the look on the faces of the people in the crowd was disappointing. No smiles, no waving back, just here we are, entertain us. I can imagine that the view the pastor has is quite similar. No suggestions ~~ just an observation. Lots of good ideas though.
Time changes things my friend. Especially with churches that can by a few thousand people, there is not a whole lot of option aside from “loud” in order to get the congregation involved. but involvement isn’t the end goal is it? it’s actually the worship leader’s job, to allow… to allow people to sing, or allow people to not sing, or lift their hands, or kneel etc.. in order to get their eyes on the Father through Jesus Christ, by the Holy spirit.
This generation, as stated in other comments, is a generation where singing is not a mandatory thing when you enter any place. Through school, I never had to sing because it was optional. I never even learned much about dancing, calligraphy, or even speaking … my point is that younger people have different expectations placed upon them, as well as different expectations for what they are a part of than what once was the norm. We learn to program computers, design websites, Market etc. Things that were never expected of older generations are now expected of us, and to us, it’s our norm, but to older people, it is not.
What I’m getting at is this. This isn’t an issue of what’s write or wrong to do in a worship setting, it’s a tension of generational expectations. Our Generation is expected to be competitive, both visually, atmospherically, and especially in sound and performance. If I were to enter a church that was not competitive to the world’s standards in regards to excellence, I would say that it is not glorifying God the way it could be, because when someone walks into a church for the first time, and they’d rather be somewhere else due to “the lack of care” put into the production of a service, they don’t feel cared for. In fact, if they were to place a church service side by side with a justin beiber concert, they would rather be a part of Justin Beiber, because Justin actually cares about the audience being cared for. The goals are similar, but very different of course, since a church is to connect people with God. So if a church service’s modern standard is low, Do people see God? is God a lower standard than that of the world? sometimes I see a church service and think.. .wow, don’t they care for their visitors? Us Christians should be mature enough to cater our Church service to our visitors who do not yet know Christ. We sometimes just need to get out of our own way, and help them see God through the level of Care within our service. And for the younger generations at least, that looks an awful lot like a “higher standard” “fun” “interactive” “freeing” and even an “entertaining” environment of worship.
To say one isn’t worshiping because they aren’t singing is far off. Some of my most life changing worship moments were in complete silence as I listened among thousands with God glorifying music around me. I didn’t have to sing, but what actually effected me, was that I could close my eyes and be with God. And I could open my eyes, and be with People who are with God, and I could watch, and see authentic professionality on the platform that Honored God. And everything was real, it was well presented, it was ordered, and freeing, and reflected every aspect of who God is.
I know this was long, and I’m not expecting you to agree with all that I said. I just needed to here the thoughts of a 23 year old worship leader who is currently in bible college studying worship and songwriting. I’ve been in church all of my life, and these are my observations and experiences. These are also legitimate facts about connecting with people my age and younger etc.
I loved your writing though, I was very involved with what you were speaking about, and I don’t disagree with most of it. It’s all very legitimate. Love you guys! It’s good to be a part of the Body of Christ
This article leaves me troubled. I love music and really enjoy good worship music and musicianship. I do my best to sing along in worship and fellowship not just with our congregation but with every Christian on Earth as well as with Heaven’s creature! But sometimes, apart from my church, I feel like great music leaves me feeling empty as if I just had a great rush and then…now what. I think when I get back, through God of course. To the point of congregating together and all together kneeling and worshiping our Lord. Of sharing in the body and blood of Christ at his supper. The song, “Coming Back to the Heart of Worship” hits the nail on the head perfectly and makes me try to put things into proper perspective with regard to Church music. I confess that I sometimes think, “No, not the organ” on those hymns which by the way often are really hard for me to follow along. Bless you all!
Well truth be told I only made throw maybe a fourth of the comments and what I noticed is all the same, we talk about worship, worship this, worship that…… But listian real close, the truth is the church has no idea what praise is, and the church has failed at teaching, preaching and even leading in praise!
Right on Daniel!
The issues is that too often it is the same songs every Sunday, over and over, plus most everything is new and up tempo and the same verses never end. Major choirs in the country have a hard time not “looping” what they sing ad nausium. Songs don’t need to last 5-7 minutes. Repeating stuff is not worship.
What? I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t like churches without good praise & worship teams, and I’ve never been to a church with a good P&W team that had little congregational participation. Maybe you should find a different church. P&W is so important, and whether you’re not musically talented or you are, you should give it all you’ve got.
James Kennon and others – you’re so very right. P&W is about God, not about us. For 7 years we’ve lived on a tiny island and attended a tiny church, with 1 keyboardist who, bless her, taught herself to play so that she could serve God and our little congregation. My family is full of professional musicians and the church we attended before we moved here was FULL of outstanding musicians, and the place rocked on Sunday nights, which I loved. Sunday mornings, I played in the church orchestra. So if I lived where I could choose my church, I’d go wherever God told me to go of course, but on a personal level, I’d go where the music was well executed and preferably lots of contemporary music. But I have learned over the past 7 years that P&W is not for my benefit as much as it is to honour God. And while it does help me prepare to enter the Throne Room when the music is of good quality because it’s easy to join in the worship and not be distracted by my personal musical biases, it’s MY responsibility to worship and to praise and to, if need be, participate sacrificially.
Instead of not singing, perhaps you should find a church that understands the concept of biblical worship. It appears that your church (and countless more) is more focus on performance and entertainment. I hope you can find a church that understands what it is to truly worship God through music….it’s an awesome thing!
This is just an observation of some of the reasons I believe there is less singing in church today then years gone by. Recapture the spirit not the exactt template.
1) [Less Melody, more Harmony] I love music but I cannot sing harmony. Today’s music style is not the traditional, verse, refrain pattern; predictable but easy to sing with.
2) [Organ or Piano Music] The music had a lot less instruments most of the time. They played the melody first and filled the sound with harmony. It did not have vocalist competing for parts nor did it have random runs to listen to or follow.
3) [Music written in rhyme] Traditional hymn music was painstakingly written to communicate the truth about God and the failure of man. It often told a story finishing as a triumph for God saving his bride (the Church) at the final day. It took us somewhere appropriate with a message. It had rhyme and structure, not something written in a couple of minutes.
4) [About God] Traditional hymns were about God not the victory or motivation of Man. The Bible doesn’t do that neither should the music! Music should communicate the Bible and the truths of the bible or it is not worship of God but of Man.
5) [Not Familiar] At least in our church many people are coming from a background of the unchurched. The simply do not know congregational singing nor the songs.
There is more but I think the first four points are something a music leader can actively help with.
For many of us, we have come to realize that much of the music presented has been written by those who do not ascribe to Orthodox Christianity. Therefore, we refuse to sing the music of heretics (https://bitofwit.wordpress.com/2014/05/14/purity-in-praise/).
Read my article and then come to your own conclusions.
Hello.
I read your article. “Satanically fuelled worship of demons”….. You must be living in an odd world old chap.
Are you are a musician or just a Rev. on an extremely generous funding package???? If so are you worth the dollars?
Yes I am a theological graduate and a good musician and our good old boring Anglican church sings some of the Hillsong tunes.
Listen to their “I Believe” or the Creed as it is known; very good modern take on the creed we use it often in church.
Satanically fuelled indeed!!!
The article that started this discussion is good and to the point. I tried to enter a respectful comment as to why I have dropped out of the church. The fact remains that many DO drop out, many to start or go to house churches, and there are numerous reasons why this is so. These people are worth listening to.
But immediately I felt slapped across the face, disparaged, and disrespected by musicians who feel they know better as they wrote pejorative replies with numerous put-downs of everyone who are so brash as to have a different opinion. You could have written the same responses with love and respect for differences of opinios and many of us might have said “amen” to some of what you said.
We are all stupid peasants, I guess, retentive and uptight, blinded to reality. I bow to your superior wisdom and to the fact that God speaks exclusively to you. Much of what you write about music is fine, but your disrespectful attitude to everyone other than yourself only shows your lack of love. You have hijacked this thoughtful article to beat your own chest.
Wow. Just wow. Your article is full of heresy “Reverend”. I speak for none other than myself when I say that I left a major denomination and began going to a Word of Faith church based on my reading of the Word and relying on God the Father for revelation rather than commentary written by men. That’s not a knock, but a statement that applied to me. One part of that understanding was that God did create man to have dominion over the earth. Not as “little gods” as you stated but by being created in His image. If man’s words have no power, why did Jesus instruct his followers to have the “Faith of God”, or more accurately translated, the “God-kind of Faith” when talking on Faith after the Fig tree withered at His words? Death and life are in the tongue according to King Solomon in Proverbs as well as in the book of James, coincidentally Jesus’ half brother. Paul taught “…we also believe, and so we also speak…”. Jesus taught that whatever you ask in prayer you will receive if you have faith. Abraham was named the father of many nations before Sarah ever became pregnant, thus speaking that into existence. Jesus also taught that those who believe in Him will also do the works He did; and greater works because He goes to the Father. Recount as many miracles Jesus performed as you can and tell us where Jesus did not speak words by faith in the Father that brought the miracle to be.
That said, have you met the men and women you condemn in your article? Jesus rebuked his disciples for commanding people “not of their group” to not cast out demons in His name. Why? Because they didn’t belong to the chosen elite few? No, because Jesus knew the intent of the heart of those people and knew their faith was in Him. The only way you would know the intent of the people you condemn is either by divine revelation received by God; or by knowing them personally which, by way of your guilt by association technique, you condemn yourself as well. You make a statement in your article condemning the companies producing the music by being associated with “Word Faith”. And then condemn them for getting paid! Paul taught in Romans that ministers are obligated their wages. And yet so many Scriptures you use to condemn are the writings of Paul. Sounds like salad bar preaching to me, pick and choose what you like and leave the rest for someone else. If I write a song from my heart that praises God, someone hears that song and decides to have it recorded and used globally in churches, is that wrong? So what if i receive a royalty for writing the song. That sounds like sowing and reaping to me. God blesses me with a talent, I use that talent, I’m rewarded. I don’t use that talent, it’s taken away. Sounds fair to me. Until you meet these musicians, songwriters, preachers, pastors, and evangelists (whether you agree with those labels or not), please don’t condemn it. It only makes you look jealous. A great outpouring of the Spirit is prophesied for these last days. I love you in Christ but you can’t expect things to look the same when the radical takes place. Jesus shook the world in just over 3 years time. How much more will the and Spirit that raised Him from the dead revolutionize Church as we know it. I personally preach that man lives in a sin stained world by the sin of one man, Adam. I also preach that through one Man’s obedience, Jesus, life and freedom from sin is now available to those who acknowledge Him with their lips. Is that heresy sir? It sounds to me we believe that same fundamental truth. I also believe the Word when it says He gave us the right to be known as sons of God. A son has access to all that belongs to the Father. I will continue to worship God with a new song as well as old songs. Not only that, I endeavor to worship Him with the way I live which I believe to be more wholesome to God. You can judge me if you want, or you can get to know me and respect me. Your choice.
I think you forgot to mention denominational background, today’s culture, and peoples’ attitudes towards worship. As a worship leader at a non-denominational church I see the young to the elderly participating in worship not just by singing, but in their attitudes. They love worshipping their creator and when that’s taught in church and understood in the hearts of the congregation, then the people participate (sing) on Sundays ( and hopefully the rest of the week too).
I believe that the real issue here is not the band or worship leaders writing “lame” songs
or old time hymns encouraged more participation from the not so good sounding majority that are in the congregation. The real issue here is an issue Of the heart. We are to be known by our fruit. Speaking from my heart
I have personally struggled in the past with singing out or raising my hands during worship not because of the style of music or I didn’t think I sounded as good as those on stage but ultimately because of my pride.
I always had in the back of mind thoughts of what others might think or say. I was there for the wrong reason…them and not my Saviour!
And until you completely give God control of every part of your life (not just your singing)
You will always be lip syncing.
http://youtu.be/3RJBd8zE48A Parody Of Our Modern Church Service
If the linked video doesn’t capture the article nothing will. I almost auditioned for a church band like this, but once I sat through one of their services I declined the audition. I’ve played in church bands over the last 8 years, and IMHO there are several popular song writers/bands who really do produce some great worship songs. Hillsong, David Crowder, Phil Wickham, to name a few. Some of the “7/11” songs (seven words sang eleven times) are pretty lame, and it’s always fun to rock out an old hymn. That said, I think the most important band members is the sound man (or woman). What is the point of having 8 people performing, when you can only hear the violin and snare drum? Getting the right balance between the band members is just as important as the balance between the band and congregation.
Interesting.
I whole heartidly agree with Bud ….. Way back awhile ago!!! The focus is on the people … It needs to be kept simple! Hymns keep it focused on the song and off the people. Hymns unite young and old. I took my 80 year old mom to church and she could not sing and she loves to sing! In heaven …. There will be no division …. We will all unite under one song and we will sing to GOD under one accord! Satan causes division and he is doing it through music … We have allowed Satan to creep in and now it’s blowing up in our faces!
Another sign of the times to me! The reason the kids don’t like the hymns is because they don’t know the hymns … I work at a Christian school and I am having to teach my students hymns! Once they learn them they appreciate them!! One they have learned to love .. Burdens are Lifted at Calvary …. Beautiful song!!!! When asked what song would you sing in time of trouble ? The answer: Tis so Sweet to Trust in Jesus. They didn’t pick a praise song but a hymn I found that very interesting!!!
Wish I had time to assure I’m not just repeating others, but I don’t. Sorry if this is redundant.
One, whether or not I agree with you is pretty irrelevant. Because regardless, this is so sad to read, brother. While I’m no church expert, I recognize that perception is reality, therefore, if you are experiencing that regularly in your church, it might be a good idea to ask yourself if you’re truly being apart of the church, and not just going to a church. In other words, does what you attend on Sundays share the functionality of the Acts 2 model, along with the congregational and biblical elements? If not, I would encourage you to pray about one of two things: ask the Lord for the grace to be the catalyst and call for change in your church, or ask Him to send you and your family elsewhere.
While we are by no means a perfect portion of the bride of Christ, I want to invite you to come for a visit to a small church in Birmingham, Alabama. It’s my honor to serve there as one of the elders and worship pastor of the church. And though we have people (of different ages and races) with microphones in their hands, our faith family is a congregation filled with a bunch of singin’ folks (again, of all ages and taxes), with a splash of southern and soul. 🙂 It would be an honor to host you and take you to lunch afterward. There is a way to sing the new with the old, honor the 84 and 18 year old. It takes humility on all fronts demonstrated out of the example of Jesus in Philippians 2, and it takes creative thinking and preparation, as well as studying the culture God has ordained you to be in.
Hope this encourages you.
Talk about singing words over and over and over…7/11’s are all of that!!!
I haven’t read every response, but I would just like to say that I believe the systemic problem can be traced to a lack of understanding regarding the worship service. We have made the huge mistake of equating our singing with worship and making everything else an “add on!” The Service is worship. Romans 12:1-2 “I urge you therefore brethren by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living, holy, and acceptable to God sacrifice, WHICH IS YOUR SPIRITUAL SERVICE OF WORSHIP. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect WILL OF GOD!
The worship service is all about worship. It starts with a call to worship, corporate prayer, and esp. the preaching and teaching of the Word of God. Our singing and giving and praying should all be a response of worship to hearing from God from His Word. Whether it is singing, giving, praying, the Lord’s table, baptism, etc. they are all a response in worship to the Lord! If that is taught and acted upon, the worship will be authentic. If not, you can have all the stories and contemporary songs and bands, etc and worship will not take place. The is evidenced by people not singing and not giving and not praying. They are often too busy reading their i-phones and updating facebook!
I’m going to put this out there, its something I’m working on but I will reveal part of it. I’ve made comments in this thread, but now I’m going to state what I believe a major problem is …. we’re too busy trying to duplicate Temple/Tabernacle worship. We are stuck in reproducing physical types of what I believe God sees in the Spirit (and in the spirit of man). Everything that was in the Tabernacle/Temple was just a type – a type of being a human. Look at everything that went on and you will quickly realize that the Temple is just a man. I believe this is why we are the collective body of Christ. We’ve placed the form before the purpose.
Take a little scripture like I will enter His with thanksgiving in my heart…(from the book of Psalms) where is the thanksgiving (in the heart – now the biggest problem is to locate the gates. If you look at yourself as the true Temple – you will easily find the gates, and the courts, making it easy to worship…..even if you don’t say a word.
So, I’ve read several comments. What I’ve gathered is you all do worship differently. THAT is great. Worship should be different. You should sing old songs, new songs, songs without instruments, songs with instruments. I’m going to blow you all away with this one: you don’t have to sing to have a rich and fulfilling worship service. If your heart is worshiping God it doesn’t matter if words and sound are coming out of your mouth while it is the accepted time to sing in church. I will be one of those people that you turn around and see not singing. That doesn’t mean I’m a “lazy” worshiper or don’t want to participate in worship. It means I’m worshiping differently than you. Sometimes I get so struck by the words that I can’t sing. Be careful not to judge others worship styles. For in the end the only thing that matters is that we worship God with all our hearts, all our minds, and all our strength.
This is a great article to discuss a very real problem in many of today’s churches, but I can’t help but feel it is only half written. It’s all about what is going on up on the stage with the worship leaders. The comments by many are perfectly picking up on the missing piece – what the congregation is doing.
All the points mentioned in the article are very real issues and in fact, I would add a few to it:
1. Worship leaders who do not consider the needs/demographics of the congregation. Many churches today have people of all ages, but the music in some churches always seems to cater to one particular demographic. The goal of a worship leader is to know THEIR congregation and choose and mix the music/style that best resonates with all people.
2. Worship leaders who are more interested in singing their favorites than listening to what God would have them do.
3. The words of many new songs are shallow. As a child of the 80’s, some of the best christian music in general was from that era. I thought about why that seems the case and it seems to me that most of the music from that time was about GOD and who GOD is, NOT about the person singing or what is going on in their life. In today’s music (church and radio), so much of it is about a persons experiences in life with GOD coming in at the last minute all to the theme of making the person feel good again. I will confess that this may be a personal preference, but I love songs that focus more on the glory of God than the struggles of man.
But there is more to this discussion and both sides need to be considered as both affect the outcome. The missing parts of the article based on other comments should include:
1. People do not have their hearts in the right place to properly worship
2. People are very self conscience about their singing well or not
3. The lyrics and music of many choruses are not very easy to follow
4. Worship is a lifestyle driven by the overflow of the heart
While the worship issue begins with the heart, it is possible for the people in the congregation to have their heart in the right place, but have worship leaders who do not. The worst case for a church is to have issues with people on both sides of the stage.
I think it all depends on the culture of the particular church body that we each serve within. What works for one may not work for another. What struck me about this article is how it’s the EXACT opposite for the church I serve, attend, worship, and work within. The volume is louder (not harmful or ‘too loud’-which is still relative I guess) and people time and time again say, “I don’t like my voice and the volume of the music makes me feel free to belt it out and sing hard without being afraid that I’m off key and everyone will notice”. They also say, “The lighting (which is a bit darker) makes me feel like I’m not being stared at or on display-it helps me feel safe and encourages me to worship and cry and participate without having to be concerned with getting stared at.” The quality of the musicianship is another one that gets mentioned often. Many often say something to the effect of, “when I first came-I was struck by how seriously you guys take what you do-it was clear that you wanted to give God your best and play skillfully-that really communicated that this church isn’t just a social club but that you are here to DO something and that same idea makes me think this church takes the other areas of the church just as seriously.”
I guess it all depends on the culture. For us, these things are helping and we are growing larger and deeper and disciples are being made. Like Jesus says, if we make disciples, He will build the church. Good stuff my friends…
@Morgan can you say that you are worshiping with all your strength? What about the rocks that have to cry out when we are silent?
Dear Beloved, Whatever we do in worship as the Body of Christ. Let us all consider our worship if any of us transgress the Commandments / Law with our cultures/doctrines, if our hearts is not obeying Him (obeying His doctrines) or if we are holding/teaching doctrines of men and our own doctrines, lest we worship Him in vain. Mat. 15:8 – This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.
15:9 – But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. 15:3 – But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
As a young 18 year old I disagree with the statement that people here have made saying young people don’t like hymns and that hymns make a church die etc. People are entitled to what they believe and what not, but I love hymns. There is so much beauty in simplicity. Hymns are so simple but so beautiful. Today’s society has to be entertained to have good music and maybe that’s why people are so dead when they sing.
But personally I love hymns, the words to those songs are pure and truth.
Doesn’t it say in the Bible if you follow me they will hate you? I don’t think Sunday worship is about praising God anymore; this is why we have all these mega churches. It is not about God so people like you and you fill the pews. We have become a religion of numbers, quantity and no longer quality.
You don’t believe me I will tell you why people are not singing along. Sunday morning worship has turned into a rock concert plain and simple. No one sings because you may mouth the words at a rock concert, but you do not actually sing along. You are no longer praising God and it makes it enjoyable for the un-churched.
You are getting the people in the door, but instead of teaching these people about God and his love we teach them how to feel good and integrate the concept pf God into our daily lives.
Want more people to sing? Give the band a break, tell stage vocals to back out of their mics some, and go acapella. Pick a medley of songs (hymns, old old praise songs, etc) and sing them with excitement (not draggy) We have been opening our service every Sunday this month doing this. It is amazing how much the people are singing, and some (young and old) are mentioning that this is becoming their favorite part of the worship. (It has an informal “around the campfire” feel) While I love leading and playing in our praise band, Deep inside I feel this acapella is the way Paul and all the early church done it too. Also worship leaders, dont underestimate how little the congregation may be singing, On the platform often all we hear is strong monitors of band and platform vocals, you get some of that down (or off), pick songs people know, (or take take to teach them) and the congregation’s singing might surprise you 🙂
Reblogged this on Cork Pine Pastor and commented:
This Blog Post has been getting a lot of “action” on my Facebook page. I think it is worth reposting here. Thank you, Thom, for a thoughtful and incisive contribution. May we never lose sight of who does the worshipping, and Who is worshipped…
Has got to be more of a show. You have to be able to carry a tune now to be in the choir. Music is louder than the words. Not like it use to be
To all of the above contributors .- may I as a new North American 60+ in age ,in from Europe . Re rhe above issue of corporate Worship , say this . You all have valid points on Both Sides, . Personally I was raised on Ira Sanky and Golden Bells Hymnals. I sang solos , Duets , secular Choirs of 140 members and the Like. and the one solid fact remains – Corporate worship and Praise is just that . It is a a coming together of people to praise and worship God . To me that screaming to be heard as a Congregation -( wow now there’s a new description for some !!!) against hih Volume Misic and singers is not seemly or God honoring. I life am in a North american Baptist Church which has not resolved this issue for nigh on 10 years now . – Result – olsder Christians like myself feel squeezed out due to the selfish , desires to please the the young folk . Young Folk- Stats tell us that 80% + young leave the church due to University . Now there in lies another question for another day to be answered in part by many Pastors, Enough I say , as one who loves to sing and listen to Music of all sorts including Irish (where I come from). lets bring back modern/less modern but with deeper meanings and richer appreciation in song of what Our God and Father through his only begotten son Jesus Christ has done in Love to bring us back into right relationship with himself
Worship IS NOT about a war between Old Hymns, Praise Songs, and New Contemporary songs. In Ephesians chap. 5 it says, “Do not be drunk with wine wherein is excess, But be filled with the Holy Spirit singing Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs making Melodies IN YOUR HEART TO THE LORD…” (Caps are to make a point) All styles of music are included here. The above article does not attack any particular style. What it does address is Stage Presence, Volume, Content and the fact that in many (Not All) churches people are watching more that participating in worship. We come to church to Hear the Word, Sing and Worship In spirit and in truth from the depths of our heart and to fellowship and have relationship with one another, this is how we the church learn to “Love one another”. #We can not worship if we are not in love with Jesus. But aside from that this article has some valid points. Concerning volume – I understand the need to connect with this generation, But all generations who come to a church service should be able to Connect with God Himself for it is Him we are worshiping. Ask the LORD, Father God, What is pleasing to You LORD? What do you want US to sing? How can we bring true glory to Your Name? Ask the question, What are the lyrics and are they doctrinally sound? Do they penetrate our very soul and spirit causing us to bow our hearts before a Holy God? Can all the congregation rejoice and worship in unity and oneness of heart or are they either board to tears, just sitting there OR driven out of the service because their ears are blasted off of their heads? I have been in both and my heart is grieved in both situations. I even had a pastor suggest to the congregation to wear earplugs if they did not like it because their goal was to reach “this generation of young people” Is this the message we want to send them? If you don’t like it wear ear plugs or leave if you want? On the other hand those that camp out in the Hymns Only Club are in error as well. We can learn from the zealousness of the young believers in our midst. Why can’t we have a level of volume that does not chase out the older generations and at the same time is not so soft people are afraid to sing out for fear someone will hear an off key note or it will lull them to sleep? The goal is to worship God with All our Hearts, All our Minds, All our Strength (we must open our mouth and lift our hands or clap or bow, whatever the Spirit is leading in), In spirit and in truth and in Fear and Reverence of a Holy God, not someone who is just our pal. This article is asking why in many congregations the People are not engaged in worship, Well, we had all better pray and seek God’s face and repent of our selfish and wicked ways and then Ask Him LORD How can we truly worship You as You long for us to. From someone who has been involved in many different worship teams and settings and has had the privilege to lead, I pray Holy Spirit be our Worship Leader, In Jesus Mighty Name. Amen!
Tammy, I couldn’t agree with you more. I truly believe this was an inspired response. Thank you for the words of wisdom and truth.
After receiving hundreds of comments on this blog, I have a follow-up: http://holysoup.com/2014/05/28/confessions-of-a-worship-wars-mercenary/#comment-6252
I understand what is being said here but don’t we as individuals, who are responsible for our own walk with Jesus, have to take some responsibility for the “problem” being spoken of? I have seen some services where it seemed to be more of a performance than a worship service but I don’t believe we can place all blame on those leading the singing. Don’t get me wrong, I have been around when the spirit of God truly wasn’t there and it was more about pleasing the people than Him and I didn’t stay. But I also know that there are many places where true worship is happening with those leading the singing but yet there is hardly any participation from those in the pews. If we as the body don’t participate even when we might not like the music (personal taste) or if it truly is being done in the wrong spirit and we don’t stand up and say something, who is truly to blame then? The leaders can’t possibly please everyone and they shouldn’t have to try to. The point is worshipping the Lord and I think we all know there are many ways to do this, even if it might not be in your own personal style. If the music is too loud and by that I mean harmfully loud, than something obviously needs to change. If the music is too new or too old, or maybe we think we don’t sing well or as good as someone else, who are we truly looking to please, ourselves or God? I think it should be about worshipping Him in every way we can, in everything we do.
Thanks Denise for your comments.
as for the music side of things… give your congregation a great melody, they’ll sing.
as for worship… remind them who deserves worship and praise… they’ll sing.
regardless of style, genre, or arrangement.
been there done that.
Most WLs struggle with their purpose…
it’s not to perform…
All 4 Him…
Peace
Forgive if I repeat any other commentaries, but I had this discussion with a prior worship accompanist. Two reasons: A congregation needs to see the music (either melody only or parts) with which to engage…you can’t engage with words projected on a screen to participate, and current contemporary music sucks; it lacks melody, structure, a beginning and ending. The joke is true: Contemporary Christian music is like hearing rifles at a shooting gallery…all repeats. The music gets way too boring, not soon enough. (I am a professional church musician. I understand the concept of contemporary style; I ‘ve just never seen/ heard it done well.)
Scott – never seen/heard it done well?? Lacks melody? Have you listened to anything by Keith and Kristyn Getty? All repeats?? How many hymns sound like “all repeats?” “Trust & Obey” comes to mind (by the way I love that hymn!!). Lacks structure? I do not disagree that some of the music out there sounds as you’ve described, but to make a blanket statement that “current contemporary music sucks” it not accurate. If you need some suggestions of who to listen to, try Mark Schultz, Keith/Krystyn Getty, Building 429, etc.
I will reiterate once again a quote from Ravi Zacharias…. “Until we can worship Him in spirit and in truth individually, we cannot worship Him corporately.”
Lately there’s been a number of blogs about what’s wrong with church worship music.
Here’s the problem …THEY ARE NOT HELPFUL!
They are FULLY subjective. Show me where the bible (OBJECTIVE) you have instructions for style and volume. If anything, the OT is full of references to PLAY LOUDLY!!!!!
Here’s what happens with these blogs. Some blogger writes it, and then a disgruntled congregation member reads it and re posts it on their page. NEXT there are usually all kinds of conflict and disagreements ultimately stirring up disunity in the church. Often these people spend next to little time in the word and more time arguing with other about how worship doesn’t MEET their needs. Hmmmm. Is it just me or does something seem wrong here?
I propose a new way….
1. WE ARE A FAMILY. Always bring your issue to your brother or sister first. (Matthew 18) Don’t let it fester. Don’t post on facebook or Gossip with others.
I’m not against disagreement, but I would never talk to someone else or post on facebook my frustration or disagreement with me wife, kids, or brothers and sisters in Christ. Settle accounts quickly. (Matthew 5:25)
2. QUIT GLORIFYING WORSHIP MUSIC.
I’m always concerned when people say “This is my main source of worship. I have been in full time vocational ministry for 15 years and have heard this a few times from people over the years.
To say our main source of worship would be once a week for 30min during a 60min service seems to fall short.
Scripture says to love God and love your neighbor (my paraphrase) This needs to be and must be our main source of worship.
To say that if you had worship exactly how you wanted it would be more about you than about God. Right?
For example, I know there are many at my church that don’t love the music. However, I know there are many that do. So if we do music like you want and then it meets your requirements for your main source of worship, then what about the people that don’t like what you like? Does their main source of worship take second chair to yours? Additionally, doesn’t it bother you that your main source of worship is controlled by ME! (The worship leader)
Instead of spending all our time complaining about worship, or holding grudges, let’s use our energy to love our neighbors and share the good news of Jesus.
So I propose we IGNORE these blogs that constantly criticize church music and instead let’s address these issues as family. In a healthy way, in a loving way, in a way that honors God.
This sounds a lot like biblical worship to me.
-MIke
“Quality is worshipped. So the worshippers balk at defiling the quality with their crude crooning. It’s better to just fake it with a little lip syncing”.
Soooo true! But not at the churches where the music is loud! Why would anyone worry about their poor signing quality when the music is loud enough that others can’t hear them?
I used to attend a very traditional church where I was told I couldn’t sign very well. I dreaded Easter services because every year we sang the Hallelujah chorus. Since I couldn’t sign I just didn’t participate. Those who could sign performed for those of us who couldn’t. Performancism is alive and well at traditional churches! One benefit to loud music is I can sign as loud as I want and nobody cares!
Sorry your worship is lame…I worship because I’m lame and I adore my master. The sweet aroma of the lame singing and dancing seems to delite Him. I hope you find your place to focus on him instead of being entertained by ore worshipers
Thank you, thank you for putting into words everything I have been feeling for the past few years. I have sang on praise teams in many different churches for the past 25 years. However, I currently have not participated in music ministry full time for the past 5 years. The reason – I no longer felt that I could freely “worship” and be used to lead the congregation into heartfelt worship, as well. The worship leaders I served under were so focused on the “performance” – vocal parts, dynamics, etc., that we had to attend long practices learning songs with complex melodies and complex phrases just to get it “perfect” enough for Sunday. It occured to me that if we (the experienced musicians) had to work this hard to learn the music, how in the world would the congregation be able to learn it spontaneously in service. My personal worship felt so stifled and the holy spirit became so restrained, that I just couldn’t participate in the ministry any longer.
I long for the days of simple melodies with repetitive phrases that allowed you to get lost in worship and didn’t require you to constantly be reading a screen to follow the words. My ideal of a good worship leader is not one who sings perfectly and puts on a show, but rather one who gets so lost in worship allowing the holy spirit to lead, that the congregation naturally abandons themselves in worship, as well, with little care as to how they sound or who is listening. If anyone knows of a church in Charlotte, NC, that has a worship leader, such as this, please let me know.
Sincerely,
Sherry Watson
Ours is a SINGING church. as a music minister of 38 years ULTIMATELY I follow the 3 S’s format. be sure the song is Simple, Sing-able, & Scriptural. Traditional OR contemporary, they’ll sing. <:{}
Unless the author has visited at least 100 churches over the past year, he should not write broad & general statements. Music Ministers & Pastors should pay close attention to their audience & pray for guidance & wisdom. If its not ushering in Gods presence & inspiring, make adjustments.
The writer makes some excellent points. In the New Testament we are not given specific points on how to worship: we are told to do so “in spirit and in truth.” It doesn’t take a genius to realize though that there’s something wrong with today’s church music. It seems that many worship leaders are out of touch with their congregations. And they are often at the center of division. As a matter of fact, we were taught in college that 80 percent of Church splits were caused by the music ministry! It’s an exaggerated ministry. Too much emphasis is placed on it. But the author makes some valid points. It is too loud – but they don’t seem to care.
You have expressed what I have been feeling all along. It’s almost like attending the next Australia’s got talent. Worship leaders are supposed to lead people into the presence of God and yet it just seems that they like the sound of their own voices. It is too loud at times and I can only imagine how the elderly feel about it as it can get quite loud. I feel it is all just one big showmanship and stage show sometimes. I love to praise the LORD but sometimes the amplification is so loud one cannot hear themselves. I agree with what you have said and second your comments. Thanks for saying what I have been feeling for a very long time. 🙂
Could it be that people dont sing because they do not have the passion for God they might have once had? I think it is silly to pont fingers at others when it is we ourselves who need to seek a love for God that causes us to sing praises no matter what circumstances.
In MY opinion, I think this problem goes BEYOND just the MUSIC DEPARTMENT. MANY congregations are not taught about the importance of Praise and Worship in our PERSONAL LIVES, therefore they treat that time on Sunday morning more like a CONCERT than they do an opportunity to participate. Praise and Worship should be TAUGHT just like TITHING, HOLINESS, SOWING and REAPING, SHOWING LOVE, etc….. ALL OF IT is EQUALLY IMPORTANT! My final point is for SOME CHURCHES, not only is it NOT TAUGHT but they do NOT see the PASTOR and other LEADERS of the church PARTICIPATING EITHER. Sometimes the RESULT of their ATTITUDE stems DIRECTLY FROM the actions of THEIR LEADERSHIP.
I lead the music in my small rural Southern Baptist church. We used to be the solemn, unsmiling, almost grim congregation of cliches, but I thoroughly enjoy worshiping God and it has always been my mission to enable others to as well. I enjoy old and new songs, and now others have joined the congregation that do as well and our music program has expanded with several people doing specials, a choir, and me urging the congregation to “sing it like you mean it!” and “This song has ‘hallelujah’ and/or ‘victory’ and/or ‘glory’, etc. in it, so sing it with some UMPH!” I remind them that we are told to make a joyful noise, and we’re not getting paid to sing, so we should enjoy ourselves and raise our voices. If I think they’re not singing very loud, I put my hand to my ear, and they perk right up. I don’t see zombies in my congregation any more.
I dunno … so many of these are symptoms of something else, and I don’t think they’re as prevalent as you think they are. I don’t think “being excellent” is a direct opposite of inviting people to participate, nor do I think it’s the reason people “don’t sing” (and I don’t even think people have stopped singing). Been thinking about this a bunch this week (there have been a whole bunch of articles like this that came out recently) and wrote more: http://randomthoughtsbychris.blogspot.com/2014/05/vision.html
WOW, Thom hit a nerve didn’t he? I grew up in very traditional churches where the hymnal was opened every Sunday and the Doxology was sung before the offering. The comments in this blog, I’ve seen happen as well, and I’m not saying it isn’t true – in some cases, but this “traditional” girl is on the other side. The very people I see not singing are usually the ones I see most often post on FB or tweet the “concerts” they are going to. The latest country artist is coming to town. They post the date the tickets go on sell and they tell everyone they will get online to order first thing on that day. Plus they invite all their friends to do the same. Once the concert date arrives they go anticipating and expecting to hear some of their favorite songs… and they do, but MANY new songs from the artist’s latest CD are sung as well. No one knows the words or the tune, yet no one complains AND these folks TRY to sing along anyway! Yet, introduce a new worship song and people start looking at their watch. Why is it that people can go to a secular concert or event and sing to the top of our lungs with the amps shaking the whole building (and their insides), yet they come to church and stand still in silence? Why can a country or rock artist turn a 3 minute radio song into a 15 minute concert song, yet no one complains about the length? Why can people go to a concert (or a football game) and stand for 90 minutes without sitting down, yet 10 minutes of standing at church is too long? Why do people say worship songs are cheesy, yet they sing every country song written? (talk about cheesy! I guess they don’t listen to the words.) Maybe that IS the case because most worship songs I know come directly from Scripture, and I don’t find anything cheesy about God’s word. Unfortunately I think this is a heart condition. I think people live by double standards. If people wanted to know the songs that were being sung in worship they would learn them. They would download those songs on their ipods, they would listen to those radio stations. I can remember going to concerts as a teenager and I would go buy the newest album so I could learn the songs so when I got to the concert I could sing along. I wanted to participate so I did want I needed to do make that happen.
Perhaps the problems is within the “I” mentality, “I don’t like the style of music”, “I don’t like the lyrics”, “I don’t like the sound level”… Etc….. I think we all need to take a step back and remember that the worship isn’t about our wants, or desires to have an emotional connection to the music. People seem to be chasing after an emotional experience rather than the Saviour. Worship should be all of us giving glory to God through whatever method works for us.
One thing I learned early on is that we all need to learn to worship God in whatever circumstance, and whatever style is prevailint at the church being attended. If that’s hymns so be it, if it’s a mixture, fine, if it’s all contemporary, it’s fine too. What matters is not us getting our way, but that God is being given the glory. It’s high time people started remembering that.
Eph 5:19 “Sing and make music in your hearts” where in there do you read “band” or “instruments?” Go visit the church of Christ in your community. Voices and hearts united in song, not drowned out by equipment and performance. And don’t say “but David…but in the old testament….” It’s a new covenant, a new worship, a new heart. They didn’t have bands in the NT, go and read about it. You won’t find it.
people come to church to hear the word of God and sing–they do not come for a show or to hear about things outside the church ie the bar down the street, the drugs on the street corner etc most know these things are already there–people want to hear what God’s message is and how his word relates to their living a Godly life–if those persons leading the singing and the preaching is not what it should be it will show thru and people attending worship service will tune out or stop going altogether. I rarely go to church cause it seems like everything is about showmanship. One church i went to several times i discovered was like on a timed schedule. Another saw the singers on stage puttin on shows and trying to show other groups visiting that they could put on a good show when the show should be for God. If you don’t get your congregation involved in church activities and make them feel welcome and a part of the service and that the service is about your congregations relationship and involvement with God then they will be humdrum zombies.
God Bless All and Rejoice In Him
I don’t see loud music as being a reason for not singing. Actually, I find that people hate hearing themselves. I prefer to have the music louder, so that I can belt it as loud as possible without echoing back or tearing a hole in someone else’s ear. This isn’t a problem if your church has a good acoustic setup, but you can’t expect everyone’s room to be designed perfectly.
Overall, I don’t believe that a congregation’s lack of participation during the worship part of a service has anything to do with what’s happening on stage. It’s either a heart issue or a preference issue. And preference isn’t an error.
Sorry to disagree, but we are commanded to sing (see my previous post re: Eph 5:19) so lack of participation is not optional unless you don’t care what God has told you to do. The praise is for Him, not us.
Sorry you’ve had a bad experience but the church I’m at has mostly younger folks and the “professional musicians” leading, yet the Holy Spirit moves powerfully every week. The joke is that women don’t wear their makeup on Sunday mornings because they’re crying it off. The aisles are filled with people kneeling and worshipping, praying for one another; it’s truly wonderful. Oh and they also sing a lot of hymns too. I understand what you’re attempting to argue, but I had to give a counter point that this isn’t happening everywhere.
I have been reading many of the comments on this thread, thought I would put in my two cents worth.
What is the possibility that it has nothing to do with the music? Nothing to do with the volume, or the choir, when the songs are sung, the age or popularity of the songs? May I suggest we look at the people instead?
What I mean is this; For many years, I have been in many Churches in several states. I have worked with the Youth , and thus their parents, I have had many discussions on many levels with different age groups. How many of you are aware of the number of people in Churches today are there because they grew up there? I did! My Father was a Deacon. I know of several whose father’s were Pastors, some were raised on the Mission Field, and these things are good….until you get to one certain aspect! They attended because it was expected of them! When we all got older, we continued to attend, again, because it was expected of us, we needed to because we were supposed to keep up what Dad told us, what Mom told us, what the Church required of us out of respect for what our fathers did! Worship comes from the heart, a desire, a deep seated need to be before Him! Being forced to attend does not inspire worship! Regardless of why we were, it was still force, and with that there can be no relationship with God.
When I hear music that was written by an artist who prayed before, during and after the composing of the song, I am brought to my knees. The Holy Spirit is involved in the song, yes, but He is also involved in my heart! Because of the discipleship of a Sunday School Teacher I made serious choices that made me hungry for God’s word. We have pews filled with people that have not done this! They are still coming out of responsibility to their parents. They are not singing because they don’t have a reason! These songs have no meaning to them! Crank the volume, turn it down low, dang, turn the volume off! Without their hearts, they might as well be at the ballgame.
Do they have Christ in their hearts?
If the answer is yes, then discipleship is the next step.
That is so true. I went because my parents took me, kept going after marriage because I felt it was expected and just a habit. I moved and got involved in service because I wanted to at that point. 6 years later felt trapped in never-ending ministry. Then I stepped outside myself and said, “What am I doing? Why am I putting myself through this?” I burnt out. When I moved for a job after being laid off in the recession, I took a long time to reflect on the 42 years in church and saw no real value in going back to church here in my new living location. I still pray and read the bible, listen to God. He hasn’t pushed me to go back. I think about it but the issues I have with the institution (not people) just turns me off. The trappings of the church institution… so I’m just in this holding pattern.
In your response, you mentioned why you went to Church, but you never said anything about a relationship with Jesus Christ. I have to ask: Do you have a relationship with Him? If you died right now, would you see His face accepting you into His kingdom? Or would you hear Him denying He ever knew you?
May I ask you to begin with that?
If you can honestly answer to the affirmative, please, seek out a Christian you trust, one who has a growing relationship with God, and ask that person to mentor you.
We need the corporate worship, the time with other believers to study God’s word!
I’ve had quite an active relationship with God (Father, Son and Spirit) since my teens but my relationship was always outside of church. I still have this. I talk to God all the time, even about all this stuff we talk about. I don’t read the bible much any more to study but just to hear from God. I could mentor you. Whether you can blanket everyone with the idea they need corporate worship is a matter of opinion. That is up to the individual. I’m not one for enslaving people to a practice but rather encouraging people in their relationship with God. My continued desire to seek after God even having been out of church now for 4 years is Holy Spirit driven. I’m living the freedom given to me by Christ. With the mind set that I am under no law as I am dead to it, you’d wonder how a person would still pray, read and seek after God. I do this in freedom and not because I must. I do it from the heart and not because of any command. When worship comes out of me, it comes from the heart and not because someone has pointed to some scripture and said, “Thou shalt obey!” I can’t live up to all those things anyway and going to church tends to make me feel like a failure. God doesn’t do that. God just continues to encourage me, pointing me in the right direction and when I do what He says, things go well here in life. For you though, I hope your going to church because you want to be there and find it value-added. I hate to see people just going out of duty. I can see people who go in total freedom will probably be more smiley and happy and enjoy there time singing and socializing with others. I’m just no social butterfly.
Ryan, if I may be so bold, you seem to have a few things mixed up. No disrespect intended, but when it comes to corporate worship, time together with other believer in study we are commanded not to abandon that time. More importantly, if we are in Christ, we are also the Body of Christ and as such we are all dependent upon each other (1 Cor. 12 )! With that thought in mind, you might go back and refresh what God intended when He led you away from Church! I can’t say He didn’t because He did the same with me while I was in college. I took a year away from the doctrinal teaching of any Churches in order to find what I actually believed, as up to that point I really didn’t know! I took the year and, when I would normally be in Church, I spent time in Bible study and prayer, and discovered just what my beliefs were and why I believed those things. At the end of that time, I went “Church shopping” (attended anything with a cross on it!), trying to find a place that taught what I believed. When I found it, I stayed with it.
You mentioned not reading the Bible for study but to hear from God. If this is true, then why have you not heard Him tell you that every member of the body is of the utmost importance? We cannot leave out even one small part, no matter what that part is, the entire body needs it! You need us, and we need you ( again 1 Corinthians 12!)!
You are needed in the Church. That is not a matter of opinion but a statement of reality from scripture.
Ezekiel 3: 17-21
Ezekiel 3? So in your mind, I’ve turned from God to wickedness all because I no longer attend someone’s church?
I was saved into a family, a relationship with my Creator. I’ve no problem you find church value-added. I don’t. I took a lot of time to reflect on the 42 years of church when I left, burnt out from its trappings. I had issues with a lot of things… membership, infant baptism, some of the ministries being a waste of time, that it was more of a weekly production, I wasn’t remembering the sermons past the front door on the way out, the repetitiveness that had church itself loosing its meaning and value, the being more outward appearance focused than inwardly, heart wise, my being an introvert which results in just sitting saying nothing in groups and not really connecting to anyone, that aloneness in a crowd thing.
I enjoy my times alone with God. Sometimes I feel more close to Him than my wife. When I read the bible, I watch for things to stick out and grab my attention, things that connect with me heart wise and with issues going on in life. God is a part of life all the way through. He gives instructions when it comes to some of the issues I’ve had at work and when I follow, things work out better than how I would like to deal with those. Going or not going to church will not make or break anyone’s relationship with God…that from experience.
IF God leads, I’ll go back to church. It will take Him to change my ‘will’ so that I will want to go and not to just attend. As of now, I don’t think my thinking and approach to the things of God will be appreciated with what ever church that ends up so unlucky for me to show up in. I don’t have a high regard for the physical institution built with money and founded on a belief system.
You can read the bible and try to follow all the hundreds of commands you’ll come across and feel like a failure when you can’t follow them all or you can read the bible to hear from God and just follow what ever it is God instructs at the moment. Like praying, it takes faith to hear God when reading His word. It’s quite easy and God doesn’t ask a lot. When you have a good relationship going with God, you actually want to obey the little things he asks. Anyone who has a real relationship with God will see God as the Almighty Father, and not make Him out to be the Almighty dictator.
A lot of people are really caught up in obedience to commands like everyone needs to make themselves look good to God. I find that spending time with God, giving Him time of day is the foundation of our relationship with Him. I’m not looking to try to follow all the commands in the bible… just the ones God points out. God does deal with us as individuals. We are all different and unique and He doesn’t expect the exact same thing from everyone. The bible is a book that gives instruction for all of life but not meant that we fulfill ever command every day in those 31,000 + verses. This is where a relationship with God in prayer and listening with our hearts when we read is so important because He will guide us as to what we need to do, when we need to do it. This will be different for everyone.
This article lists a lot of excuses.
Dear Ryan and Bryankr. I agree with both of you. Bryankr is right, we need each other as a member in the Body of Christ, Jesus is Head. I don’t think he mean to hurt you (with wickedness) as Ezekiel 3: 17-21. God is saying we need to correct our brother in love if we know something is not right. Let us not make any assumption of one another (Romans 12:16 – [Be] of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.). I feel the same as Ryan do cos’ confusion is in the churches i.e. doctrines/heresies. Some are serving with meekness but many are not (including elders / leaders). I see it in my church (of 3000 pl) and I left that church long ago keeping to myself and not voicing out but seeking God for answers which HE showed me thru’ the years, mainly teaching me from the bible and not by HIS oral voice as some preachers teaches. I have a relationship with God like you. Sometimes HE speaks by the prompting from Holy Spirit but I must search the Bible to confirm it. Otherwise I might be assuming things. Be not wise in our own conceits but prove all things before we act / judge. HE has given us the bible for correction / reference.
1 Th 5:19 – Quench not the Spirit. 5:20 – Despise not prophesying. 5:21 – Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
“But I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation.”
Without sounding too harsh or extreme is it at all possible that this is the actual problem? While I understand that sound systems may need to be adjusted, songs need to be learned, a few leaders may have to remember that they aren’t The Boss, and the guitar guy needs to learn he isn’t Slash, perhaps the heart of the issue is represented in this last sentence.
After listing several reasonable issues that may truly discourage good congregational singing, perhaps the real issue is that we’ve all turned into a bunch of consumers by design. We’ll participate but only if the environment is to our liking. We’ll engage but only when I can have it my way.
I don’t think we can voluntarily choose not to participate and at the same time blame someone else for “forcing” us into our situation.
Scripture never says “Shout to the Lord! Unless, of course, the people on stage don’t evoke that kind of response”. I don’t believe the Psalmist encourages us to “Sing unto the Lord a new song! As long as its not too new or requires that you learn something that might not exactly be your style”
I don’t mean to sound trite but the core problem of our worship services isn’t found in your just criticisms of our modern worship scene. It’s found in waiting until you find motivation from something other than the majesty of God.
This article is actually the bigger issue with modern worship culture.
If you struggle to worship, you should look inward. Not outward. You say you don’t want performance based worship but you’re making demands of the worship team to do certain songs and appease your tastes.
Sung corporate worship should be easy for every Christian because it’s simply an overflow of their personal walk with God. It shouldn’t be dependant on the songs you want to hear.
I agree that their is a responsibility on the worship team to assist people in entering into Gods presence but if you are unable to worship to certain styles or songs then you are the problem. This whole article is contradictory.
The only person you can control is yourself. If you want to praise The Lord and sing, then sing! It’s not about everyone else or anyone else. Just you and your Creator. Just praise Him and SING!
Thank you for your article Tom. Perhaps the church should strike a balance between the old and the new. http://youtu.be/lhhx8CZU4Ow
Wow! So many comments. The only thing I’d add is that I agree if the music is too loud, the congregation can’t hear themselves sing. Some P&W groups (such as Hillsong) always leave a verse or two where the voices of the audience are emphasized. Somewhat amazing that many church groups don’t get that. It’s got to be about congregation worship, not about the band.
We had a conversation about a parallel article last night. While I think the subject is a *great* question (if people are not singing, why?), I think the article might be trying to oversimplify the problem. From any relation to ‘style’ of music (other than someones personal experience, relating style to lack of singing fails with any real data) to the cancelling of music programs in schools (the cancelling of arts programs in schools is terrible and should stop – but if that means people don’t want to sing, why do they still in their cars, in their showers, hanging out with their friends, at weddings….and why will a 15 yr old spend hours and hours learning the riff from their favorite song on the guitar?) is *way* too simple. The 3 years we went to the National Worship Leaders Conference, there was a class on ‘getting your congregation to sing’. The people there represented almost every denomination, and every single style of music and size of church – all facing the same issue. And as to learning music – the church has spent far longer without printed music than it has with…and there are large parts of the world – and even in our country – where worship is done with no printed music and no projectors (years ago we had an african american church plant meeting in our building, and we did our joint services, they lead through gospel music – all done by memory, maybe a keyboard, but usually no instruments – and no hymnals, no printouts, no screen). Is that somehow deficient? Yet they sang *loud!* (and they were not the hymns I knew). I think there are things that can allow people to become complacent (i.e., making it a spectator sport), but I think the *attitude* that is developed about why we’re bothering to worship together through singing is the larger issue. The fact that many of the songs/instruments that have lasted the test of time, and are older and cherished, were once seen as ‘extreme’ or ‘worldly’ should prove why we need to be careful about laying the issue there.
I have been involved in worship for 40 years (20 years in NJ/Philly area, 20 years in Tulsa OK) from hymns with just piano n organ to full 20 piece bands. I am a worship leader now at church and at a celebrate recovery ministry.
I disagree with your entire observation. I found the problem with those who dont sing is because of lack of expectation and lack of excitement for the Lord and what he has done. Most of today’s average chritians listen to secular music and live apathericn but “moral” lives or they are fault finding, prideful critical typrs. These non singers are people whom dont listen to christian music or P&W. They are comfortable christians with worldly affections or self rihhteous know it alls that long for the glory days. I used to be the latter…
Ironically the teens and the those in recovery are the exsmples during worship in the many churches that I go to or minister. They actively listen to hillsong, jesus culture, chris tomlin etc. So they are the ones singing full boat with hands up, eyes closed and tears streaming. ..The people that buy p&w CDs and/or listen to christain radio are the ones who are full engaged during “modern” style worship. Those that only spectate are usually either too critical to enter in or just listen to top 40, oldies or rock music. The issue is not that we are not singing 100 +year old, out dated songs. At least 11 times the Bible exhorts us to continue to sing NEW songs. Hymn means songs of praise not whats in an outdated hymnal. When the bible talks about hymns, almost all the references are historical, not exhortational. Eg. …”They sang a hymn to the Lord”…
We are exhorted to sing NEW songs.
If people dont sing and connect with the congregation and the worship leaders during worship, its a reflection of a negative attitude or apathetic christian life. .
Stan,
You make some good points.
For example, Psalm 33:3 says “Sing to Him a new song” and then goes on to command to musicians in worship, “play skillfully.” That’s not a suggestion. That’s God almighty’s direction to us, not just for the Temple, but for today. Singing to God a new song is not limited to old covenant, old testament worship. The book of Revelation in chapter 5 proclaims that when we get to Heaven we will sing to Him a new song even then as well. That’s in the future.
Additionally, even under the old testament worship styles, we see songs being adapted and changed with new lyrics. Many Psalms make reference to other songs with titles such as, “To the tune of “Death of the Son” (Ps 9). “Set to ‘The Deer of the Dawn’” (Ps 22). Or, “Set to ‘The Lilies’” … A Song of Love” (Ps 45). “Set to ‘Mahalath’” (Ps 53). Or, “Set to ‘The Silent Dove in Distant Lands.’” (Ps 56) and “Set to ‘Do Not Destroy’” (Ps 57). We see here, extra-Biblical songs being used as the score under God inspired and directed Scripture as lyrics!
Ultimately there is nothing in Scripture stylistically directing how congregational worship should occur. A truly Biblical view on the arts can no more say, “God is only pleased when we sing to the music of “Death of the Son,” than the music of Bach or Handel, Fanny Crosby, the Gaither’s, Michael W. Smith or LeCrae. To suggest differently cannot be Biblically supported.
Those that imply or direct that one musical style is more pleasing to God than another are running headlong toward legalistic religion. In Jesus’ time those attitudes were personified by the Pharisees. We should note that when considering the societal, political and moral problems of Jesus’ day, “Jesus took no public stand against slavery, racism, class-warfare, state sponsored terrorism, military occupation or corruption in the government. He spoke not a word against abortion or infanticide, homosexuality, or the exploitation of women and children. All of these and more were pressing problems in Jesus’ day, but we have no record of His directly addressing them” (from the book “Healing from Spiritual Abuse,” Ken Blue). Yet, Jesus had much too personally say, chapters upon chapters of Scripture about Pharisees, those who self-assumed the seat of Moses, those who put pride in their traditions before humility and servant leadership.
Are traditions in and of themselves wrong? No. But traditions, even musical ones can become objects of worship no different than the serpent-staff that God commended Moses to make only to be struck down by Hezekiah when people started to worship the creation instead of the Creator. The key here is not how old the idol is, whether it is contemporary or traditional, or whether it has an electric guitar or a pipe organ. Idolatry is idolatry.
When I went to church I got so siiick of the horse and pony show onstage. I wanted to sing to worship but had to watch the “musicians” do it.
Thank you for sharing your perspectives. Some points shared are very much worth considering. There were, however, a few points, or perhaps more so the way they were expressed, that I felt misrepresented the issues and portrayed in an unnecessarily negative, homogenous way. I have written a response and included the link below. I wish you God’s blessings, joy, and peace.
http://timothynorthup.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/why-they-dont-sing-a-response/
I was once a protestant minister in a church with contemporary worship like this article speaks. The “band” cause about three church splits and as far as I know to this day is still a thorn in the sides of many. I’m not an Orthodox Christian and worship in a different manner than most here are used to.
It’s not just the music either. The sermon is typically 30-60 minutes of which people sit and listen, or at least that’s what they’re supposed to do. SO you have spectator music and a spectator sermon. Neither of which include the fear and reverence of God that is due Him.
Why is it even called a “worship service”? The very word “worship” imply’s just that towards God. It is this that the protestants must return to.
With due respect and in Christ,
I can’t let this go by without commenting, after having such a heavenly encounter Wed night with Bethel Music visiting our church. The songs were unfamiliar, the music was blaring, and EVERYONE was entering in, the Holy Spirit was present, almost palpable. I was overcome and crying and shaking and completely giving my heart in worship and it’s just one of many life-altering nights in my so-called megachurch.
If anyone looks around their church and sees no one singing, it’s probably time to find a new church (“A church alive is worth the drive”, right?). There are plenty of churches in America that may be putting on a show. I guarantee it’s as prevalent in a Catholic or Baptist or LDS church as it is in Mega-churches, they just get a worse rep because of the lights and microphones and fancy backdrops I guess.
I used to feel like this guy, because they didn’t play my favorite songs or instruments, but in my case it was just spiritual immaturity, and I began to realize worship services aren’t about ME! Once I got over myself and focused on the One we’re there for, I was able to feel the presence in any song. I loved the new songs the leaders wrote because I knew they weren’t the real author, God was speaking through them. And in our intercession services now, we’re encouraged to sing our own songs to Him, create choruses from what’s stirring in our hearts, and it’s amazing! All those ‘familiar’ songs from the 17th-20th century – that the article author apparently wants to keep – were written the exact same way!
So these bloggers spitting out generalized hate need to do a little more research. The worship leaders I know want nothing more than the congregation to sing out passionately as referenced, but it goes both ways, we need to come into service with open minds and hearts and let the spirit lead. And as I mentioned if the church leaders are really just putting on a show, try elsewhere! Don’t quit eatin just cause mom burned the biscuits!
Reblogged this on Target That Chicken! and commented:
A very interesting opinion written by Thom Schultz on his blog, Holy Soup at holysoup.com. I would agree with a lot of what he says–lots of people have stopped singing because of the amplification, the spectator atmosphere of it all, and the choice of song. But I would also argue that in many cases that helps me worship God more. When I am listening only to the words that I am singing rather than the people around me, I focus more on the worshipful mindset that I should be having. Now I know this is different for many people but that is just how I have grown to enjoy worshiping.
I play electric guitar in my worship band at my church so I also have experience with the leading of the worship. Through my experiences, I have noticed that it is very easy to focus on the professionalism of creating the music. With my youth band, we practiced for weeks trying to get the same set of songs worked out but we just couldn’t do it. It wasn’t until I realized that I was focusing too much on the music and sound rather than what that music and sound is supposed to be doing. As worship leaders, we are supposed to LEAD… WORSHIP. So it is very important to grab hold of the worship that we are lifting to our God rather than all the noises that we are creating with our voices and instruments. And that should translate into our everyday lives as well. When you wake up in the morning, what is your first thought? I know my first thought is, do we have Froot Loops??? This is very important to me because I love a good (fake) fruity cereal for breakfast. It really makes my day just to have that bowl of Froot Loops. But should that really happen? My entire morning is centered around a bowl of fruity cereal. Why should I focus on that when there is a God filling me with his Spirit every day, hoping that I would grow closer to Him every day?
In a way, the spectator aspect of some worship bands has is the result of a group of excited Jesus followers who are worshiping God with all their heart. I hope that we all see that that heart of worship is really what matters in the end. “Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us, to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.” Ephesians 3:20-21
This is a great article! It really helps to explain some of the things that can get us caught up in the less important aspects of a worship band. The goal of a worship band, choir, or single piano player up on stage singing is to LEAD the people in WORSHIP to GOD. That is the most important role of a worship leading group.
A common thread we’re seeing here is disagreement about the music. God is not the author of confusion. Is it so important as to cause divisiveness in the church? You don’t have to have a band or feelings to experience God. The experience of God is far more than emotion. If it was about “worship” and “leading the people in worship” then why do musicians need solos? Why do people feel the need to applaud the band?
The band, if any; a solo vocalist, if any; an electric guitar solo, if any, is not applying their craft within a church context solely to “lead the people in worship.” If we narrow the arts within the church down to the exclusive utilitarian function of “leading the people in worship” we do four dangerous things:
– We put the focus and priority on us as congregants instead God. If the priority and focus is on us as congregants then we have a dog in the fight of musical styles and preferences. After all, (as some believe and have commented) the band is there only to assist _me_ in worship, no? But if the arts have other or many purposes that are God-centered not people centered, then whether we personally like the instrumentation or style of music is of less importance. We as congregants no longer have a dog in the fight.
– We diminish the role of aesthetics. The Bible is clear that one of the primary purposes for the arts within the church is to create beauty. (Exodus 28:2, 2 Chronicles 3:6). When we use the arts to create things of beauty, we offer up to God a sacrifice of our first fruits and exercise a God given attribute of God, the Creator.
– We misunderstand worship. Worship is not singing and singing is not worship. Worship may occur during singing but is not reliant on it. The first use of the term worship in the Bible is found in Genesis 22. Abraham was bringing his son Isaac up the mounting “to worship,” yet there was no band, no music, no lyrics of any style. Worship was and is today the act of preparing our sacrifice, bowing our will down to God’s direction.
– We misunderstand praise. Psalm 66:4 indicates that worship, singing and praise are three distinctly different things. Psalm 66:1 commands us to SHOUT to GOD! Not only does this verse imply something about abundant volume, it specifically directs us regarding to whom we are singing, not to the congregant next to us, but to God alone. Psalm 66:2a capsulates exactly what praise is, to “Sing the glory of His name,” and Psalm 66:2b again confirms, this is to be “_His_ praise” (not ours or for our own or the congregant next to us own benefit).
Maybe it’s not this simple….worship comes from within. If it’s not “in” people, it won’t be expressed outwardly. Fortunately, I’m at a church where this is no where near the case. Those on stage merely LEAD in worship. …and it’s AMAZING.
I think that the day that church’s abandoned things like using a hymnal or music books and relented to just putting words up on a screen was when singing started to slack off in worship services. As a Minister of Music for 20 years, I have served well into the “Contemporary” style and it was a bit amusing to read an earlier comment about young people only wanting to sing to loud distorted music. Frankly I like all styles and blend into my worship planning, but do not allow loud blaring music that deafens the congregation – period. Once that happens all worship aspects of the song has been lost. And I am finding a growing interest in those “old” hymns from our youth who seem to be getting tired of singing “Lord, I Lift Your Name On High” with 10 repeats. There soon becomes repetitive motion with nothing new. Not trying to be critical, but I have led all styles of worship and I am seeing the pendulum swing starting to head back to those old hymns and the incredible message they contain.
Garry- you’re correct. The pendulum is starting to swing back the other way. Big Daddy Weave doing a version of “Trust & Obey,” among other artists also doing their versions of hymns proves that.
America is blessed to have public places for worship. When you enter one ask the Holy Spirit to touch you through the music and the word. Thank Him for His blessings….all of them.
As a music teacher, I teach kids how to read music. As a person growing up in the church, besides piano lessons and band, one of the ways I learned to read music was in the hymnal at church. Reading words thrown up on a screen does not teach music. My father didn’t read music and he was the choir director at the church I grew up in. How was that you say? He knew that if the notes went up his voice had to go up and if the notes went down, his voice had to go down. With just having words on the screen, you don’t know either.
Also, I find the contemporary songs repetitive and dull. Doesn’t God know after the first time you say it that you love Him. Is the repeating so we can convince ourselves or convince God that “He is awesome”, “we love Him”; “He is the greatest”?
I agree that the tunes of the hymns are outdated, but I do like the way the they are being updated, (except for that guy who sings all of Amazing Grace on one note).
Reblogged this on Oyebanji Speaks and commented:
I am reblogging this because you will surely find it insightful. Thom has given his opinion on modern church worship. How applicable is this in your own local church? Fell free to comment below.
Is vocal participation the appropriate metric by which we measure worship? Does such a metric even exist?
So… What do we do about it???
I don’t disagree with this article, but I also don’t really agree with it. Worship leaders will always have to cater to the environment and venue of which they’re singing. Hymns aren’t necessarily be the big talking point of a youth revival, while “Gods Great Dance Floor” might not role over well at grandmas First Baptist. As a worship leader, and as any decent worship leader understands, it’s never about what music you want to play or what songs am I good at. Your job as a worship leader is to first and foremost worship Jesus, and to SERVE THE CONGREGATION. I often meet worship leaders who treat Sunday morning as a show and they’re in the spotlight. It’s about praising Jesus, and providing a worship environment that is genuine and appropriate for the congregation. What you want as a musician doesn’t really matter.
As for the article, I’m not a fan. I say this with humility and respect for the writer, but this doesn’t give any encouragement or direction to solve the issue. It unruptly ends in a complaint, and as brothers and sisters we should always encourage each other toward love and good deeds. This has potential to be a great and very insightful resource if it provided some momentum to solve the problem rather than end on a sour thought about our worship leaders, congregations, and overall worship experience.
Thanks, CH. I think you already touched on some of the remedies when you wrote, “Your job as a worship leader is to first and foremost worship Jesus, and to serve the congregation.”
You’ll find some of my thoughts on potential remedies near the top of this lengthy comment string, including:
Optics. Be careful and intentional about what people see when they sing. Consider putting the musicians out of sight.
Invite people from the pews to come forward and sing, unamplified.
Looking at the backs of people’s heads discourages participation. Re-arrange seating to create an in-the-round arrangement so the congregation sees and senses one another. It’s the singing-around-the-campfire effect.
Even in contemporary services, use more grand old hymns that are well-known and singable.
Explain to your people that you’re transitioning from a passive concert setting to congregational participation. Challenge them to fill the room with their praises.
Don’t refer to the singalong time as the defined “worship time.” Worship is so much more than tunes.
And you’ll find further thoughts in my follow-up post: http://holysoup.com/2014/05/28/confessions-of-a-worship-wars-mercenary/
I’ve been in churches where the arrangements of the hymns/songs were so convoluted that only the worship group could sing them properly. And I’ve been in churches where the music was so loud that my eardrums actually hurt.
These two conditions discourage (me, anyway) from participating. I’m now in a church where the music is kept simple and volume is kept reasonable . The only times that special arrangements are used are when the worship team is singing alone.
Thom, you completely nailed this! As a former worship team member, who was edged out due to not having the right “sound,” I tried my best to stay in participation from the pews. It very quickly became a concert/performance each & every Sunday morning. This is not worship – it’s a perfectionist’s dream of how “worship” should be.
“Today, when church people in America hear the word “worship” we typically think of “church music” and “singing with our church family”.
However, my understanding is that when the Hebrews thought of worship words like “bow”, “kneel”, & “surrender”…and especially words like “offering” & “sacrifice” came to mind…as in literally giving up something of personal value or preference. My point is that that sounds vastly different than what comes to mind today when we think of “worship”.
When we sing we are extolling and exalting & praising & acknowledging the greatness and the glory and the worth of our God. But worship? Maybe…but what is exactly sacrificial about singing songs that we like?
The truth is, worship isn’t only ideas & thoughts & feelings. Certainly thoughts & feelings accompany worship but to stop there is to fail to worship.
Biblical worship is giving something up (including oneself, hence the concept of “bowing”) as an expression of trust and reliance on God. It’s sacrificing something of value to demonstrate that God comes first because He is first. It’s tangibly expressing: “The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want. I am in need of nothing else because I know that Jesus + nothing still equals everything.”
How many of us have been believing we are “worshipping” God, but in reality, we are not…because we are not surrendering and making tangible sacrifices as unto the Lord?
“Worship was great today!”, we say. What we mean is: “The message in the music and the style of the music moved me.” Nothing wrong with that. Actually there’s a lot right with that. There is a very important place for music and God calls His people to sing too (there are 100’s of songs in the Bible) — It’s a way we can express what is difficult to otherwise express. Music is like “heart language”. And besides, we might as well sing in a style that moves our emotions. Right?
But worship is something different. It is letting go. It is giving up. It is a sacrifice placed on an altar. (Rom. 12:1-2) And it is death to oneself…and living to God.
With that, a couple of questions:
(1) I wonder if joyfully singing to a music style in a church service that isn’t necessarily your jam (read “personal preference”) …I wonder if that is actually a better expression of what worship is than singing a song in a style that we prefer.
(2) Could it be that things like serving, expressing generous hospitality, and giving up a preferred seat or parking spot all more accurately represent what worship is than singing songs that we like?
Come to think of it, maybe we should start calling the offering the worship time in church. If that were the case, I have to wonder how many would leave a church service saying, “I really liked worship today”
“Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker;” (Psalm 95:6)
Even though I’m a person with little musical ability, I’m willing to sing. However, some music ministers make it very difficult. Some of the songs are unsingable for someone like me – especially the contemporary ones. Also, they mix up the music so often that I never really get familar or comfortable with the new stufff. I realize that you can’t do the same old same old all the time, but for most people there’s a learning curve. As a Catholic, it’s really irritating how our wonderful inspiring musical heritage is not made use of. “O Come, O Come Emanuel” sends chills up my spine, but only gets used once or twice during Sunday mass during Advent in favor or a bunch of contemporary stuff no one is really familar with or can sing.
Amen!
And this is why I love traditional, liturgical worship services. We still sing as a congregation. Mind you, there are some great modern hymns (in Christ Alone, etc.) and praise songs (Revelation Song, Our Great God, etc.), but a lot of modern music seems meant for a soloist.
I don’t know what I feel about this. In some ways I agree we need to keep congregations engaged in worship. But I don’t agree with all the reasons listed for disengagement:
Spectator set up – perhaps this exists but has I evolved because of congregation apathy?
Professionalism -“… play skilfully, and shout for joy. “(Psalm 33:3 NIV) clear instruction to play it well and play it loud!
Blare – I’ve never been able to hear myself sing over a traditional church organ, it never stopped people singing in the past.
Music choice – completely agree here, introduce new songs but don’t introduce them just because they are on the new CD you just bought and don’t get rid if old songs just to make way for the new.
Many times a song contains statements that I would never do, ei.,
Spin Around, dance, cry, etc
I have been a music minister for 39 years with traveling evangelistic teams, been a lead pianist in churches, sang in choirs, etc. Because I have ministered in many different venues and places: I learned the importance of listening and obeying God’s direction for the worship service. If I did it God’s way, the people entered into worship. If I did not, I performed and the congregation watched.
Being sensitive to the Holy Spirit’s leading and putting my own self down, was the key to a successful worship service.
The best worship I have ever been in was when the whole congregation sung a simple song, with simple, God-filled lyrics. The beat and the style never mattered.
This is missing today. True worship with all the hearts turned toward God.
On another note: At my very large church, several older people have stated they will not go to the song service because the decibels are painful. One elder woman told me that even though she wears gun-deafening ear plugs, the drums still pound on the back of her head. She is in real pain. What are they supposed to do?
Thank you for your blog post on this matter.
I understand what you are saying about the congregation not knowing the words to some songs, but your article comes across as
being slightly against worship songs. Believe me when I say sometimes it is not the worship songs. The church I attend sing old hymns most of the time with the typical organ and piano and a choir. The congregation that actually is singing are rather lackluster. I think the problem today is people’s hearts just don’t seem to be in it.
This article just makes my heart sad. Worship is expressed through the giving of our hearts to Jesus… I’ve been in church almost every Sunday of my life.. Growing up experiencing many kinds of services while my mom figured out what she believed..and then what I believed. I love singing to Jesus and expressing my desire for Him regardless of the type or style of song or music. I think worship is a heart posture before God & rarely the churches fault if you can’t “experience God”….. Or “get “into” the music at this church”…or “hear from God because of the preaching”….we have a consumer mentality today in our culture and it spills into our churches. Worship also includes hearing the Word and giving of our time and resources… Again a heart posture before a Holy God. Today’s churches are filled with new believers who haven’t grown up in their faith yet… (Regardless of how long they have been in church) hearing others complain only discourages their growth…if it’s not a personal heart posture of worship, what would your solutions be?? Why not let each church offer what they have and put the responsibility back on the people who sit and stare ? Where is their active response to a loving, forgiving, grace giving, amazing Jesus? Sometimes conviction of sin leaves people at a place of quietness before God and singing isn’t their response that day. I wouldn’t assume that just because someone isn’t singing makes it the churches fault. I attended a little church on an out of town visit and they did only hymns while the words were projected on a wall with pre-canned music… Not an ounce of “live music” and I maybe heard a couple people besides my family. I appreciate the effort every church puts forth to be the bride and share the Good News of the gospel of Jesus.
Worship “Leading” isn’t about “Leading” anyone, it’s about responding to Christ’s initial tug on our heart strings and letting the Holy Spirit guide us in a way that represents “Worship as an offering” in whatever means necessary. Music is just one avenue of worship, but it seems to decide how we respond. Repentance, Remembrance, Reflection, and Response. That’s True Congregational Worship. Just like a Senior Pastor who shepherds the flock should recognize when his flock isn’t following him anymore, a Worship leader who looks into the congregation and no one is responding, should confess that there might be a sense of “performance” or “pride” that gets in the way of a proper response. It’s not His or Her fault, but when given the opportunity, it is their responsibility to be humble and accept that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Instead of politics in worship, how about the ministry of encouragement? Instead of pointing the finger, how about more confession? Instead of performance, how about more humility?
I was one of the first to comment on Thom’s thoughts and have followed the conversation with fair diligence. It seems to me the conversation has “evolved” from a music style preference to the purpose of corporate musical worship. Is it biblically proper to use this method of worship as an evangelistic tool or is it exclusively God’s alone to enjoy; no one should be “attracted” to it? This is a genuine question. I need this communities help fine tuning this thought.
James, I heard your heartfelt request regarding corporate musical worship. When I hear this in someone, I know it is God’s Spirit moving them, and I respond. I am a child of God, and as His beloved I believe God yearns to be close to us in every way. In our waking thoughts, He delights in us when we talk to Him at every opportunity. When we praise Him with our songs, our talents (musical or non-musical), this could include our art, our writing, or any other way we are gifted by His Spirit to give Him glory for loving us, it is so beautiful to our Lord. I think sometimes we get off-track when we start feeling or taking some of the credit for the praise of what we are to give Him. Whenever I hear people talking about their skill, or see them sitting back just waiting to be entertained, I know that they are not connected to God. But even then, we don’t know what is in their heart. They may be glorifying Him while listening. I believe the key to true worship for all of us is this, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your brothers and sisters as you love yourself. It really is very simple….:)
James, as I and some others have suggested, worship is not singing and singing is not worship. Worship may occur during singing but is not reliant on it. Worship and music stand separate … however worship can and often does certainly take place while a congregation corporately joins in song.
The first use of the term “worship” in the Bible is found in Genesis 22. According to the Bible, Abraham was bringing his son Isaac up the mountain to worship yet there was no band, no music, no lyrics of any given style. Worship was then and is now today the act of preparing our sacrifice, bowing our will to God’s direction.
Worship (when using the tool of music or not) requires a relationship between the worshiper and the focus of our worship, for a Christian, Jesus Christ. A non-believer cannot experience worship of Jesus Christ (bowing our will to God’s direction) as there is no relationship yet, but they can experience stirring music or other artistic forms that point, as an icon not an idol, toward Christ. There is nothing wrong with the arts being used this way and this can be one of many seeds that gets planted in someone’s life before they put their trust in Christ.
If you accept that worship and singing are two separate things, then the use of music as an evangelistic tool should not be problematic. At least, no more problematic than street preaching, gospel tracts, billboards, broadcast and social media, etc. Music can in this context, be another tool which a church or individual can decide to use if they so choose.
Definitely some bitterness here toward contemporary churches. We have “well rehearsed concerts”, extremely talented vocalists, and loud “blaring” music. Yet, the people, both young an old are alive with worship during this time.
Divisiveness over differing preferences is no good for the church.
🙂
I don’t believe it is bitterness at contemporary churches, Nicholas. For me, What stirs my heart are lyrics of depth that explore God’s attributes. Since many of the songs that tend to be sung in churches with more of a praise band/rock style of music do not explore God’s nature in detail, my heart is not drawn to sing. Songs – both contemporary and from years and generations past that are more complex are what draw my heart to God – then it seems like the song wells up within my soul and there is an awakening of my otherwise silent soul to Him! Stirring ones to me are: In Christ Alone, Great is Thy Faithfulness, The Love of God, The Power of the Cross, 10,000 Reasons, It is Well With My Soul, Jesus Messiah, O For a thousand Tongues to Sing, etc. I wish we could move the discussion in the church beyond contemporary vs. traditional because that is not the point in my case, to a more thoughtful one looking at the actual songs – asking if we are choosing songs like the ones played on the contemporary Christian radio station rather than picking ones that would have more content that would best teach our body truths about God, our role in the world, evangelism, consecration, etc.
Must be the church (es) you attend. I don’t see this problem in the church I attend or others I visit.
No wonder people are sick of church. If it’s not one thing it’s another. Satan is doing a good job of keeping us busy with our selves while the world around is dying and going to hell. Help us all Lord, please!
Wonderful information and very, very true. I found that singing the songs through for my church 1-2 times and having them join in, having the men sing, then the women, one side sing , then the other is very helpful. Me t time they hear the song they’re on their feet singing. I may pass the mike to various individuals — even go those who do not sing well! They all jump in and participate! It’s wonderful. I don’t care what song I sing the congregation is waiting to SING! This does not happen. at some churches that I visit so I can only speak for my small but lively congregation!
This is not my experience at all, and I travel and preach. I’m in a lot of Churches from sea to shining sea and I have never seen more passionate worship than in the last few years. What Churches do you go to? If you find yourself joining the dead in not singing where is your passion for Christ? There may be some churches where people are spectators but where I go they are few and far between.
Agree and amen.
Corporate worship is different than parallel individual worship. If ideal worship is just “me and God” then true corporate worship in a church service can be deemed optional, and unfortunately, for many it is.
I believe there are at least 2 parts to worship in church: the vertical where we address God directly with our words, songs, actions, etc., and also the horizontal corporate action where other people witness, overhear, and join with our worship as we “preach to one another” using the words of the songs, readings, etc.
One problem is that we unwittingly make the corporate dimension very difficult for the simple fact that we just can’t hear one another in many worship settings. This effectively eliminates the horizontal component of worship. This is not a style based issue.
I just submitted my doctoral dissertation last week on the effect of congregational volume on one’s encouragement to sing. Keep in mind, that my results are based on what my test subjects wanted to hear of the rest of the congregation, not the sound system. After all, what a congregation hears of itself is what happens when the sound system is turned OFF.
Here is what I found. This is not opinion, but the average response of 35 test subjects which is a statistically valid number of responses.
The ideal volume at which to hear the rest of the congregation was 81 dB. The ideal volume at which to sing while hearing the congregation at 81 dB was about the same: 80 dB. The people felt best about singing at those levels.
At 85 dB congregational level, responses to questions like: “I felt I could worship under these conditions” and “The balance between my voice and the congregation was good” began to drop. And 90 dB and above was found to be a DISCOURAGEMENT to singing.
Most fascinating was that the louder the congregational volume, the louder the test subjects sang. However, above 90 dB they disagreed with the statements like “I can worship under these conditions” and “If given a chance, I would sing again at these levels.” This means that while people may sing louder at louder congregational levels, they don’t like it and don’t even feel they can worship properly.
Is this a style based issue? No. Pipe organs can overwhelm a congregation just as much as a sound system belting out a worship team can.
Want to help people to sing? Let them hear themselves as a congregation. This involves acoustics and volume levels of all types of accompaniment.
I don’t care much for the new repetitive “praise” songs, and projected words.
Congregational music needs to be uncomplicated and have a strong melody line in the accompaniment, for most people to be able to sing them. The problem with many contemporary worship bands is that they rely on guitars as the dominant instrument instead of a keyboard, organ, or piano. Rhythm is fine but melody is crucial.
Ken Tran, You hit the nail on the Head. What Worship is about. It all comes down to attitude. Are you at ‘Church’ to Worship God or to be entertained? People need to Know that what Worship is about. One reason we ? At my Church, use no instruments, Praise groups with Microphones or Organs. We all Come together to PRAISE GOD! Singing songs, Hymns, Spiritual songs, Contemporary Melody, Call & response. But it all is about Worshipping Our CREATOR!
Lots of opinions and theories here as to why people don’t sing. I’ll save my opinion and tell just my experience. In my church when the music changed many excellent members of the choir and other singing groups left the church for other grounds or quit attending altogether. Among those who still are in the services when the “new” music is up very few sing. When we occasionally have one of the old hymns or gospel songs many, many sing enthusiastically. And this is a largely young church. No opinion…… no theory…… just observation………….
Ah…. thank you for writing this! My husband and I’ve struggled for years with this issue, We’re both classically trained musicians and we were saved about 7years ago. Since then music has been a real battle for us. We discipline ourselves to be positive and not be overly critical. But it seems there’s no discernment in church re: music. It’s encouraging to know there are others who feel the same. Any solutions?!!
First, some background: In addition to being classically trained, I’ve played in jazz and rock groups, gospel choirs, vocal ensembles and pops orchestras. And I’ve arranged music for all of them, for all levels of performers.
Now some ideas: Consider “Angels We Have Heard On High” and “Hark, the Herald Angels Sing.” They are carols, but for
for practical purposes they are hymns. Here’s what makes them well-suited for congregational singing:
– Good melodies. They are fun to sing, and if you know no other parts, you sound great on the melody.
– Good inner parts. If you want to sing something other than melody, there’s a good part for you.
– The rhythms are not complicated; they are straightforward.
– They can easily be sung acapella, and when they are, it’s a glorious sound.
– Instruments sound very good with them.
The above recipe for worship music is a good one, and we should keep it. We need to replace the negative image of “hymns” with the image of “Hark” or “Angels,” and re-discover the gift of hymns, crafted for us by some very fine poets and composers. Yes, some hymns are dull and lacking, but don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Hi, Lisa, I, too, am a classically trained singer as well as a follower of my earlier background, Southern gospel. My church has a liturgical service on Sunday morning, where I sing in the choir, and a contemporary service later in the morning, which I attend to learn more of the culture. My suggestion is that you and your husband not “trade in” one style for another; with only minor compromises, both can co-exist and be meaningful, provided they are offered worshipfully and intelligently. Best wishes.
I could not disagree more with this article; it seems to make a lot of assumptions, and convey the writer’s opinion (and perhaps past grievances) more than anything. By the grace of God our church IS “overflowing with fervent, harmonizing voices”, we make every effort to lead worship in an excellent way, song choices reflect a cross-generational church, people are consistently engaged, and our sound levels are managed well. People come to church to worship God and not their feelings. Let’s not forget that David commanded his soul to bless the Lord. Worship is a life-style and a choice…we get opportunities every day to worship God individually, and 2-3 chances every week to worship corporately. If you wait around until it feels good, or you like everything, or you agree with everything, or you’re “happy”, then you probably WILL opt out of worshipping, and not participate.
I’m a worship leader who travels a lot and leads worship in a large variety of different congregations, ages, denominations, music and worship styles, sizes, building types, etc. Here are a few thoughts:
Discover what works well in each situation, and incorporate that principle and practice wherever it might work well in other settings. Every situation is unique and there are many positive things which can be applied to various settings.
When it comes to corporate worship and facilitating the congregation to actively worship (as opposed to just spectate), I have discovered that going it ‘simple’ always seems to work very well. Cutting back the band to a single guitar or keyboard during a song (even a capella without any instruments) helps invoke genuine worship, because It cuts back the sheer volume and complexity of sound, enabling the congregation to hear its own voices and sense God’s presence in the tehillah (the vocal praises which God inhabits, as the Lord sings in the midst of His people). Even in a youth concert with a full rock-band and major sound system, you will find that quiet simple accompaniment works best during an altar call. It also works well for worship.
Harmony also enriches the worship in a beautiful way. Hymnals give those who read music the opportunity to harmonize with specific notes. Singing harmony by ear also does this, and worship leaders need to encourage their congregations to sing in harmony, whether by ear or by written note.
The acoustics of the building play a huge role. For live congregational singing, the room has to have some reflection. In a big cathedral, even a few people singing sounds fabulous (just like when you sing in the shower). However, a congregation singing in a dead room with little sound reflection (like a movie theatre, for example) can sing their heart out and it still feels dead, simply because the congregation doesn’t hear itself singing, and therefore loses the dynamic of corporate sound.
So we need to really consider the room acoustics if we want the people to experience a sense a corporate worship. Those congregations who have a live room, eg like a storefront or ‘box warehouse’ setting (with hard walls and floors) where they can hear themselves singing vigorously, need to be careful when ‘upgrading’ to a new building filled with padded pews, carpet and curtains. Many are the sad testimonies of live ‘simple’ churches suddenly becoming dead in their worship once they moved to their new building, simply because the sound of the corporate worship which they so enjoyed, just took a nose-dive. (What a let-down, after spending so much money on a new facility!)
So is the answer to make the sanctuary live, like a cathedral? Not quite. Because if you bring a contemporary band into that same live reflective cathedral-like room, with their many instruments, live drums and strong PA system, the result can sound terrible. There’s too much reflection of sound, and the people’s brains are confused. This adversely affects their worship (and it also makes the spoken word unintelligible). Therefore a live room (while good for singing and worship) is not so good for preaching and teaching, where a dead room is preferable.
Anyway, for what its worth, these are just a few thoughts that I have.
Have you read Brian Wren’s book, “Praying Twice: The Words and Music of Congregational Song”? It’s 14 years old, but probably still relevant. One thing I noticed you didn’t mention in this blog post is the power of the external cultural on singing/non-singing. We live in an electronic, and admittedly auto-tuned age. One of the things Wren notes is that living in an age of recorded music, our role as listeners is constantly reinforced, and our (potential) role as singers is not really encouraged.
I spent some time in a Lutheran congregation and they have a great tradition of congregational worship stretching back to the myriad hymn written by Luther himself. Sometimes, however, I think Luther had it easy: German culture of the 16th century (and really even up until fairly recently) really encouraged group singing in many settings. Our contemporary North American culture really doesn’t. I remember singing on the bus to the way to summer camp as a child/young teen, but I really haven’t felt that kind of permission/encouragement to *just sing* at all outside the church doors since.
The “Church” here on earth is made up of people, and the old adage “you can’t please all the people all the time” is as true in the Church as anywhere else. No two people or congregations are the same, and all will have different preferences and opinions when it comes to music in the Church, just as they will regarding lighting, where the offering bags are placed, what color the cabinets in the kitchen should be and every other aspect of “Church”.
Worship, be it through song, prayer, meditation, communion, dance, performance or any other means, to me is an outpouring of our love and gratitude to God, our Lord and King, who was prepared to humble himself and put our need for salvation above his very life. We can be blessed through participation AND observation of worship…but that is not it’s primary purpose – bringing honor and glory to God in all that we say and do ALL of the time is true worship, and let’s face it we can only achieve this when we allow Gods grace and power to permeate our whole lives.
Lets not get too caught up in what worship style/songs are best, or why people don’t sing in Church any more, lets become passionate about knowing, and having compassion, for one another, and leading Gods people to think about HIM and not themselves…… and maybe then they won’t be able to keep from singing.
“How can I keep from shouting your name, I know I am loved by the King, and it makes my heart want to SING” (Chris Tomlin – How can I keep from singing)
(and yes I know he has a ridiculous range and I can never quite get the high notes but I am gonna sing it anyway)
🙂
I was just reading “Confessions of a worship war mercenary” and felt I needed to add to my previous post….
I am a singer, I have sung ever since I learned to talk and maybe even before I could, so my natural heart response is to sing….
Not everyone will have the same heart response..
the artist may paint or sculpt,
the academic may have some amazing prayer dialogue,
the sports person may perform outstandingly,
God knows our heart responses, and he knows when we are worshiping him… encourage others to worship in whatever form they wish, just make sure (as best you can) that your own worship doesn’t hinder or distract others in their act of worship.
Perhaps we as “worship” leaders need to refocus on what worship is and make opportunity for worship in many forms to occur… and why does it have to be the same every week anyway??
I’m betting by the number of opinions here that the “war” amongst ourselves will continue, thanks to me-centered lifestyle we live in and the fact that we all just want to be comfortable. God hasn’t called us to be comfortable; He’s called us to lead. One statement that I’m sure will go unnoticed; What would the current or previous generation of worshipers give up in order to reach the next generation of those dying every day without Christ? A simple truth is that “Pow’r In The Blood” as it was sung in 1899 is not making a dent anymore. You folks keep up the arguing and stirring the pot and the rest of us will just keep trying to win those who are lost by what ever means God gives us.
Worship is not supposed to be a means for reaching the lost. You reach the lost by the preaching of the Word. Worship is the act of showing reverence of, and adoration for, God.
Some folks don’t get it. Christian music is about worship but if a “sinner” doesn’t like the music he won’t be back. Would you bother with a secular concert if you didn’t like the music? Everyone who visits your church is not a believer. My grand-kids listen to the music in my truck when I have them visit: oldie rock and roll, oldie country, and classic Southern Gospel.
One day my 9 year old grand-daughter asked, “Pop, how come you had such great music when you were young?” Her brother said, “It’s because they didn’t have electronics!” “Kids say the darndest things” (Art Linkletter said that. If you don’t know who he is look him up.) They don’t now anything about music. They don’t even listen to the words. They like the beat. It uplifting. Nothing like Pandora and Southern Gospel.
If I enjoy the music I get more into the service. If I don’t know the song or if it sounds like funeral music I have a very difficult time responding. The church I attend is trying some contemporary music and over the past few months we have seen a drop in our attendance. We are trying to have a mixture with both contemporary and Southern Gospel. Peace and GOD’s Love to you all…
Acts of Worship: Pray, Give, Sing, Hear the Word, Communion. If you’re not singing, then you’re not worshipping completely and that’s not pleasing to God.
Thom: I think you make a couple of interesting points. We can make some adjustments to encourage mass participation. However, I am not seeing what you are seeing. As a pastor for over 30 years I see great participation in worship gatherings across the US. I was at a college campus recently for a chapel and listed as over 2000 young people ages 18-25 lifted their voices in powerful praise to God. The stage was filled with great musicians and singers but that did not intimidate the gatherers. Many of them flooded to the front of the stage and fell to their knees in worship as they lifted their voices to God. It was easy to hear them as I was surrounded by them on all sides. In my own home church I see and hear them weekly singing to God in full voice.
Amen. I agree!
you have obviously all been going to the wrong churches, our little congregation has only an organ, and about 20 – 30 member, on a Sunday, and we sing our hearts out to The Lord.
Dear Thom; I thank God for the true, concise and inspired words about worship in American churches. Honestly there have been many ‘worship” services where I either cringed or grieved at how far we missed the Father’s open arms like the prodigal son coming home. Worship leaders are to lead the whole church from the cares of the world to Holy Presence not leave them watching from the outside. A challenge to worship leaders; try leading worship with no electricity. No amplifiers and no screens, just words that have a simple melody and easy to learn words that glorify the Lord. Lk 17.7-10
It sounds to me like what we are doing here with this article and ALL of the responses is simple. Everyone thinks THEIR way is the BEST way to worship. When it comes down to it this article isn’t about worship or music styles at all. It is about what one person wants. Now there are other people who want those same things, but that happens on all sides. This type of fighting is exactly why the church nation wide is falling apart. For every 1 church that opens in the U.S. 10 others are closing. These type of trivial fights are the exact reason why people stop going to church. If any of you really knew your bible you wouldn’t be saying one word here. The church is diverse. The church is suppose to be different. If it wasn’t different and meet different peoples needs in different ways then we wouldn’t be following God’s word. So for crying out loud there is no right or wrong way to worship as long as you are worshiping Jesus Christ. Stop trying to tell everyone else the way it SHOULD be and start focusing on how you can support the efforts of the churches and church people around you to help grow the church as a whole. If you can’t see all the different churches in your area and around the world as one church trying to proclaim the same gospel just in a different way then maybe your not where you should be in your walk. Jesus didn’t choose his disciples and say “now, John, your going to be Baptist and sing hymns, and Peter, your going to be Charismatic and you with sing Choruses”. He called them by name to “follow” Him. If you can’t “follow” the example of Jesus and stop perpetuating this infighting among the church then maybe you need to step out of the way so others can follow. No matter if they choose to sing Worship Choruses or Hymns.
I’m not taking time to read all 600 of these posts. I will say that this is a great example of having an inward focus about church. The truth is reaching lost people is a completely outward focus NOT in-reach.. That means meeting lost people where they are. Lost people. That’s what matters. Christ made it the the most important mandate we have. If you truly believe that you have to be willing to be real with yourself and admit that the very arguments over this topic are some of the primary reasons the lost people want nothing to do with church. They know that the traditions that serve the church body are seen as hypocrisy by lost people. They don’t want what we are trying to reach them with because they see it as fake and full of people expecting them to be just like they are or they are not accepted. Using newer worship styles in church is part of being intentional in meeting people where they are as well as using real connections life groups to be able to share and suffer and support each other. Not the facade of Sunday school classes which seldom allows real relationship to form. We have to stop defining everything by what WE want and look for ways to serve others. NOT serve ourselves! And by the way worship has to be completely active and personal before it can be real on a corporate level. And one more thing. As a believer for more that 35 years I have played in orchestras and praise bands almost all of that time. I worship by doing my best with the gifts I have been given through that offering of music. The styles are irrelevant to the focus which is to bring the focus of the the worship on Christ.
I have been going to church for 50+ years and working in them for 25+ years. Here’s my observation: yes, it has changed some, but not a whole lot. If you looked around in the very “traditional” church I began working at in 1989, guess what – there were a lot of people who were not singing and these were the same hymns that their great grandma sang 100 years before. Fast forward to the “contemporary” church I helped plant 4 years ago, and I’d say about the same % of people are singing and we are singing the very latest stuff from Passion, Hillsong, Bethel, ect.
I’m just tired of these same articles (and I’ve read a lot of them) coming out every few months telling us how congregational worship is going to hell in a hand basket. It’s just doom and despair – the sky is falling and no one is going to praise God in our churches anymore. Well if it’s true I guess we’ll have to make room for all the rocks that will be crowding in to sing in our place (Luke 19:40).
Thank you…walking off soap box now….
I am the daughter of a Music Pastor of a mega church and was raised on all kinds of music. I grew up singing in both choirs and on worship teams. I also have sung with the concert choir in college and preformed many challenging acapella pieces. I love choral music because of the difficulty and the beauty that can flow out of many people singing different parts together. I also love the sound of a really good rock and roll band and the passion that can come out of singing simplier worship courses. I have seen the result of churches infighting over styles of music. THIS CAUSES DIVISION AND IS NOT WHAT GOD INTENDS FOR HIS PEOPLE! And music is not what church is about, it’s about bringing people together to worship the Lord, no matter their age or where there are from. We are a culture too preoccupied with preference. We are the “have it your way” culture. When in reality, we should just thank the Lord that we have the ability to meet together without the risk of being thrown in jail, tortured, or even killed for our faith.
Maybe they aren’t singing because the timing’s off, because the worship staff and the congregation are out of sync. It’s early Sunday morning, and the pastors and worship leader are warmed up and ready to go. They’ve been planning and prepping all week. They are “on.”
The congregation on the other hand, has spent the week pursing their own
callings, and on Sunday morning they are happy to be moving s-l-o-w-l-y,
enjoying some rest, enjoying the Lord’s gift of another week done.
What happens? The worship leader tells everybody to “Stand to your feet
and WORSHIP THE LORD!”
Right. Just jam the shifter into 4th gear and stomp on the gas.
You see, the timing’s off. Many of the praise and worship songs would be better positioned at the end of a service – as a response.
Our church is tending more to the contemporary music and it is so loud, it’s painful. My husband and I watch the main service from home on streaming live so we can turn down the volume of music, much of which is repetitive & meaningless, and turn sound back up during sermon. We also attend a 50+ group where we mostly sing hymns and I feel like I am worshiping and not being performed to and yelled at.
Self-centered performers do not care if they make people’s ears hurt or older people have to take their hearing aids out. They think everyone has had their hearing damaged by listening to music that is too loud.
Again, if EVERYONE (the obviously volunteer level worship leaders & musicians included) had adequate Biblical training on what worship IS, our role in it, & what it means to be a worship leader & a worshiping community, THIS wouldn’t be a problem. The Worship Leader is serving as a Pastor (or at LEAST a Deacon), & needs to know His/Her flock, & that includes what they can handle, volume-wise, & what songs best speak to them.
Have you expressed your concerns to your local worship team? I am a professional church musician and soloist for 45 years, and I am and have been clinically 45% deaf. I have sung in choirs nationally. I have sung as a soloist and chorally; Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, and the great Alabama Theater. My challenge is my gift. Please make sure your concerns are understood locally. Bless.
I’ve noticed when I read church music discussions that the most vehement supporters of the praise band style of music are those who are the worship leaders or other on-stage performers. I don’t think that connection is a coincidence.
Get rid of all instruments and just have a song leader. End of problem. If people want to listen to a performance, set it up outside of the Sunday morning service.
I’ve been to only ONE non-instrumental church, & the worship there was stale & dead. That doesn’t really fix a thing. The heart issue is still present, & unless it’s addressed, nothing will have changed.
When’s the last time your pastor taught on (better yet, taught a multi-week series, annually on) the centrality of corporate singing/praise/worship in the Christian life for ALL eternity? My thoughts: http://tinyurl.com/omt4f9v
You don’t “get” the problem. It isn’t a matter of preference, or liking one song vs. another, or wanting one’s own way. You are asking people to endure listening to a loud noise that they can hardly bear to listen to. No amount of “teaching” will change that. Every generation has had “their” music, but this is the first generation that has been so self-centered that they have insisted on replacing all the music in church with “their” music.
I’m not sure what churches you’re attending? And, yes – you’re correct: I DON’T “get” the problem (at least yours). I suppose I can IMAGINE that there is – somewhere – a church whose worship team is creating “loud noise” that no one can “hardly bear to listen to” – I just haven’t been to that church. I’ll be honest – I’ve probably only been to 50 – 75 churches, TOPS, over my life… hardly a complete cross-section of every church in the world, however they do cover the spectrum from Presbyterian (PCA, EPC, & PCUSA), United Methodist, Lutheran (ELCA, & MO Synod), Nazarene, Southern Baptist, Vineyard, Pentecostal, Charismatic, & Non-denominational, including everything from plants to megachurches. In all of those Sunday services, camps, retreats, conferences, & special services, the closest thing I’ve ever experienced to an “unbearable noise” was one particularly BAD choir singing hymns. That said, I’ve been to churches where people didn’t sing, & my knowledge of those churches led me to the conclusion that corporate worship was thought of as either “entertainment” or “prequel/set-up for the pastor’s sermon” – they underemphasized Biblical teaching on worship. And, I’ve been to churches where the volume was A BIT higher than average, with lights, & big, professional rock bands, singing mostly brand new songs that – according to everyone else – no one would know or be able to sing, & I’ve been unable to hear my own voice over the ROAR of those voices around me. And the only recognizable different with those congregations was that the pastors/staff/worship leader had DRIVEN the Biblical importance of corporate singing into that congregation. That was it. The only difference. It’s true of traditional services as well as contemporary: where coorporate worship is devalued by the churches teaching (or lack of teaching), people tend to not sing.
That’s pretty self-righteous of you
I resent the idea that modern church music is “praise music,” and that the old hymns I was raised on and love are “not.” How did the new generation get to redefine our language? I am only 52, and I love hymns. I look around, and I don’t see the younguns we are supposedly doing modern music to “reach” singing at all! So, remind me again, why are we doing this? My preteen kids are being denied the opportunity to hear and learn the beautiful old songs with their timeless messages. That really hurts my soul to consider, and I am afraid I will be mightily sorry to realize one day that I never could find a church where they could have that chance as I did. It is like I am stuck with a church that communicates in Swahili—I don’t fit.
Boot,
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I am assuming that 200 years ago the church regulars thought the same thing about those new songs set to the melody of popular bar tunes. Of course, we call them “traditional” or “old” hymns now.
Let’s be honest, none of us are singing the hymns that Jesus and His disciples sang and every generation introduces new worship songs. “Sing to The Lord a new song,” Psalm 96:1. That said, nobody says that you have to like the new songs. Get a group together that prefers hymns and speak with your church leaders and come up with a solution that works for your church. If you go to Him in prayer God will show you the way.
I will do my best to be nice. The truth is it’s not about you or me. No matter how wise…what you have achieved or how famous we are…the legacy you think is important fades quickly. Young or old lost people are looking for authenticity in spiritual concerns. Tradition is fine and it makes us feel good about what our witness testifies as what we value. But as time passes we have to be relevant to hurting lost people. Unfortunately most trust church tradition very little. Regardless connection is the real need.
This article very critical of the church (while well deserved in some churches) puts no responsibility on the person in the pew. I’ve been going to a church the last two months that does not have a professional sound and they sing songs that are 30 years old; tunes that I have a difficult time worshipping to and singing along with. But the responsibility is on me to come with a heart to worship and I do. Sure I think they have issues they need to fix but I am responsible for me and my heart.
Good article. I agree with almost every point Worship leaders, allow me to add several suggestions from the pew:
1) Dial way back on the volume of the drums. You’d never mix a CD the way worship bands do their mix…with drums taking up 75% of the sonic environment and way overpowering the great guitars, keyboards and worship band voices.
2) Best standard for volume level (Restating one of the author’s main points): Make sure the audience members can hear EACH OTHER’S voices. a – Most worship bands take all the volume up in the room, thus, we end up sort of being along for the ride, mainly as watchers and quiet singers, with most of the men not even moving their lips. b – But when worship bands dial their volume back enough to a level where the people in the pews can hear each other’s voices, we switch into worship mode. It’s we who are doing the worshipping and the band is leading us in scenario b…we’re ACTIVE, vs. scenario a where we are PASSIVE followers. You can’t expect the guy back on the sound board at the rear to achieve this, he is too far back. Have a volunteer planted in the middle of the audience who signals the sound man to turn it down or up. Much audience worship would result from this.
Good points Joseph-
It’s vitally important that everyone can hear the congregation singing. That is, people in the congregation and people leading. If you’re playing in the band and you can’t hear the congregation, it diminishes the corporate worship.
Why can’t the band hear the congregation, and why can’t the congregation hear themselves? The sound system is too loud. Why is the sound system too loud? To get the level of the piano, singers and guitars up to the level of the drums. Too often, the volume of the drums drives the escalation of the overall volume.
Even with the drums in a cube they are still overpowering. So, if the drums drive up the volume, forcing the rest of the band to play louder, and forcing the church to spend lots of money on sophisticated sound reinforcement, why can’t we replace the drums with something easier to control, like Latin percussion? And why can’t drummers learn to play quieter?
And why do we insist on having drums? What if someday all the cool kids demand tubas?
Doug I just cannot believe that you actually believe most of your own rhetoric. The solution for you is to stay at your traditional church and your traditional services. Your just basically against drums in church..Right? Why try to mask it with so much irrational opinion. You just have an Axe to grind with modern worship style. It is the responsibility of any musician to play musically. Please realize that drums bring most of the dynamic intensity to any style of music. They affect how music is perceived by the audience. For you to say that drums in a “cube” (I assume you mean enclosed in a drum booth) is overpowering is ridiculous. The sound engineer is responsible for controlling the FOH level. With guitar driven music instead of piano driven there has to be a level that is inherent as you combine all the elements of the Worship band. In fact most of the leadership I know expect a certain volume and direct Sound Engineers to make that happen. Its energy.
That said I have spent all of 25+ years in playing drums in not only tradition worship bands as well as orchestras of significant sizes as well as spending time as a sound engineer. Let me be clear… they amount of sound energy coming from a full orchestra is usually just as loud in db as most contemporary guitar driven praise and worship. So regardless of your taste in music it’s likely that most of the problem you have is just style.
I think being self assured and opinionated is forgivable. Please don’t be surprised when we start using rap as a connection for reaching lost people. Fortunately God is more than capable of escaping the box you and so may others in this blog are trying to keep him in… we want what we want right?
The best news of all is this. It’s not about us. It’s about Jesus and glorifying him. I just hope the singing isn’t to loud in heaven to hear myself sing.
Fred
Remember, the focus of this discussion is why people are not singing in church. With that
focus in mind, here is my response…
I am not against drums in church. I’ve played in lots of ensembles for 40+ years in churches
(Black Gospel, pops orchestras, baroque orchestras, etc) and some had loud drums – it was great. But in those cases the congregation was not singing. I am concerned about any instrument overpowering the congregation during congregational singing. If the instruments want to play at high volume during offeratory or being/after service, fine, go ahead.
But it seems the drums have the hardest time keeping a lid on the volume, and IMO, that high volume escalates as the rest of the ensemble and the sound engineer try to keep things in balance. Again, fine for the offertory; not so good during congregational singing.
Please, do not accuse me of trying to keep God in a box. I just want the members of the congregation to be able to hear each other. It is such a cool sound – to hear all those voices together.
If no one is singing and you want to sing, find a church where they do sing. To say that “no one” is singing anymore is an exaggeration; a sweeping generalization.
Right on Todd.
We live in rural Texas and only 2 of the Southern Baptist churches in the whole county sing hymns. None of the non-denominational, a mix at the Assembly of God, a mix at the Methodists. I have researched this by both visiting many churches and calling the association. Finding another church “where people are singing” is a very difficult task. This is a cultural phenomena as evidenced by so many comments (here and on other blogs addressing this subject) using words like “old school” and “old people” and telling others that they aren’t spiritual enough if they don’t worship the same way. There is very little consideration or respect for fellow believers.
Many modern Christian songs are not “congregational friendly”. By that I mean that they are difficult to sing by a large group – written as the songwriter’s personal worship and not meant for congregational use. Being a competent musician and worship leader for many years, I do find many of today’s new worship songs difficult to pick up easily, so I give up and just listen. That’s not what corporate worship is all about.
What church did you go to where people sang hymns with “fervent, harmonizing voices? “I grew up in a conservative church where everyone used hymnals and it was the same thing. Those up front leading or the few musically talented would sing loudly while the rest stood there with their noses buried in the hymnal. I LOVE to sing, and I love a worship service where i can sing as loud as i want and not feel like I stand out or am a distraction. However, i recognize that not everyone likes to sing, and music does not connect with everyone the way it does with me. I’ve been to both traditional and contemporary churches (although i have to say in my experience it happens more in contemporary worship) where people sing with abandon, kneel at the front, weep in prayer for each other, and engage in worship by more than just singing. The difference has nothing to do with the style or volume of music – it has to do with making Christ the focus in a way that is authentic, not contrived. The church needs to quit looking for the right “formula” (whether traditional, contemporary, or somewhere in between) and get back to real relationships centered on Jesus.
this is a very interesting article. I gives food for thought. I am a bass player on a church worship team. We play modern songs. The music is loud but not overpowering, But I’m on stage I don’t hear what’s coming out the speakers that well. I hear all the time smile,look out, Don’t stare at your music, Be happy. I play two Sunday’s a week another bass player plays the other two. And I do notice people do sing but not very loud and I am also one of them. I don’t sing on stage. I play my bass and they say I dance around. Maybe I should dance on the ile instead. When the spirit hits me I start moving , what can I say? It’s my expression of praise. Who knows maybe if the worship team isn’t on stage and out with the people maybe, just maybe it would feel more like worship than a concert
Thank you for the post, Thom. I have just read it now. Unfortunately, this is happening even here in Kenya. Presentation worship session seems to be order of the day and it’s even worse in a trilingual country like mine.
The author makes a good point about volume, but just as much as the band can overpower the congregation, it happens in the old traditional church with equal decibel impact. I would be quick to point out that this volume overpowering the congregation really isn’t an issue unique to “contemporary worship services”. I’ve spent more than a few Sundays having my ears blown out by a pipe organ and a 30 piece choir in a ‘traditional church’. Some of the people in the choir were hitting high notes that actually hurt my ears. Singing was no better in that environment either.
Wow… Sounds to me like you need to find a new church!
I traveled extensively thru the south and Midwest for 10 months and every church I stopped at all along my route had wonderful worship and lifted awesome praise up to the Lord! It was a glorious thing!
Or maybe you just need to find the blessings to share with others, rather than complaints?
sounds like you are talking about what you did in the past? We’re talking about very recent changes that have developed.
Bottom line, most do not understand that “worship” services have nothing to do with what the people want in the church and everything to do with showing reverence and thanksgiving to God.
I’ve thought about that, and it is true to a degree. Suppose your home church decides to start doing the service in only Spanish, or Latin. Are u supposed to say “well, it is not a culture of my own, but I should be OK with that?”
Sad…most of the comments relate to the number one problem in our society today which is “it’s all about me…I deserve more….gimmie-gimmie-gimmie….take more than you give….etc.” Singing and worshiping should be as much about blessing others as it is getting a blessing. Another problem we face is a lack of respect and concern for the older and more mature. Younger people should WANT to be around the older ones and learn from them. They are often the ones who BUILT & PAID FOR the facilities the young are enjoying….not to mention that many of them paid a heavy physical and emotional price for your very freedom. Older ones should be able and willing to share the type of music. Younger people should realize that they will not always be the younger ones and you don’t want the fact that we all naturally get older to be a cause of a church dying out. Many older folks LOVE Contemporary but your church doesn’t have to do one or the other.
Dr. David Gauger,
Although some differ regarding where the actual safeguards should begin and end, all international and domestic worker and consumer safety organizations are unanimous in their findings that potential hearing loss or damage is caused by multiple factors when so combined, not just exposure to an excessive volume level (known as a SPL or “Sound Pressure Level”). Equally as important to the discussion is the frequency response range (designated as a “A weighted,” or “C weighted rating) which serves to increase or diminish the resolution of a particular set of data (or in other words, changes the result) through limiting, ignoring or increasing the frequency band to be considered in the results; the frequentness of the readings (or, how effected averages are to transient peak sounds); and lastly but equally important, the exposure duration, expressed as volume averaged over time (or the TWA – “Time Weighted Average”).
One cannot have a meaningfully accurate discussion of volume or loudness, especially as it relates to the possibility of hearing damage without defining sound pressure level, frequency range and the duration of exposure.
Statements such as those in your first post can be misleading as the example you give, 85 dB SPL is not a very loud sound (relatively speaking). To illustrate this point, it should be noted that OSHA’s very conservative “HC” (Hearing Conservation) standard does not even consider the effects of sounds below 80 dBA (slow) SPL for any duration whatsoever.
When one says, “nobody here has mentioned that sound levels about 85 dB begin to get into the territory of hearing damage” the uninitiated reader could falsely conclude that low or moderate SPL levels sound will cause hearing damage when in reality the formula is far more complex. According to NIOSH an 85 dBA SPL exposure would need to persist uninterrupted for EIGHT HOURS before hearing damage is a concern. Now, when was the last time your church praise band played for eight hours straight, let alone with an average of 85 dBA (slow) SPL? The duration is extremely important. Without an eight hour duration the value of 85 dBA (slow) SPL (average) is perfectly safe by all conservative estimates.
You then raise the question, “I found the quantification of singing volume to be quite problematic: do you make your A-weighted measurements during the loudest part of the song? The softest? On a certain word? How long is long enough to average the readings?”
As noted above, a comparison to NIOSH standards must be made using the same SPL, frequency range and TWA as the NIOSH recommendation. A comparison to OSHA standards must be made using the same SPL, frequency range and TWA as the OSHA standard. A comparison to Europe’s ISO DIN 15 905-5 2007 standards must be made using the same SPL, frequency range and TWA as ISO DIN 15 905-5 2007.
If you are concerned about when to log a reading it would appear you are not considering TWA as the question’s presence might cause one to assume data is not being considered as an averaged over time. If you are not considering TWA, you cannot make an accurate comparisons to NIOSHA, OSHA or ISO DIN 15 905-5 2007 standards, which are all duration based.
For example, in OSHA’s HC (or “Hearing Conservation”) standard, permissible safe exposure levels specify that 85 dBA (slow) are allowable for eight hours per day. With a 5 dB exchange rate, this projects that an average 90 dBA SPL is equally safe for a duration of four hours, 95 dBA SPL for 2 hours, and 100 dBA SPL for 1 hour.
I think it would be safe to say that most praise & worship “sets” in contemporary church services are approximately 20 minutes in duration. The math is simple and when calculated accurately the likelihood of a congregant experiencing hearing damage as a result of typical contemporary church service volumes is very slim indeed.
Accurate and true. I’m glad you took the time to clarify the real negligible impact of this drivel.
Thomas,
Thomas,
This whole volume discussion is beside the point: the blog entry was about people not singing in church, and I have data showing that volumes above 90 dB (approximately A weighted, very slow TWA) discourage singing. This is significant for churches which run their sound systems above that point (which is many of them.) Above 90 dBA (slow), people do indeed sing louder, but my test subjects’ self-reported data (Likert scale) reveals that they don’t feel they can worship under those conditions.
And we still have never discussed why any volume above the lowest level for comfortable intelligibility is necessary. Congregations are not monolithic: Volumes above a certain level do indeed cause physical pain for some people and problems for those congregants with hearing aids. Somehow, these people never seem to enter this kind of discussion. A lower sound level would enable both those with normal hearing and those with impairments a fighting chance to worship unimpeded. This is true for both pipe organs AND sound systems – it’s not a style issue.
Some comments on your last post:
I never mentioned the OSHA standards and it is needlessly confusing to have OSHA, DIN, and NIOSH recommendations on the table at same time. Let’s limit the discussion to NIOSH.
Your assumption of a 20 minute package of singing as the only source of sound exposure is not relevant. First, it is quite conservative in many congregations, since often there is a 20 minute (or more) package at the beginning of the service, and more songs following the sermon at the end of the service. Second, again, congregations are not monolithic: there are various constituencies to consider. For just one example, if the worship team plays 2 or 3 services on a Sunday morning they obviously have as much as 3 or 4 times the sound exposure since you must include exposure during the pre-service rehearsals, too. Third, not all churches can afford an Aviom in-ear monitoring system for their worship teams so many (most?) have floor wedges where stage volume can equal or exceed that of the house. Fourth, and most importantly, all this must be considered within the total sound exposure for the entire day which may include loud public transportation (subways, etc.), listening to music using earbuds, etc. Even though sound exposure in a worship service may not cross the line, the piling on of all these factors cannot be ignored even though any one of which, considered individually, is often not a problem.
The TWA issue you raise was solved by my use of the ITU-R.BS1770-2 standard to measure the audio files from my test subjects. Each file was about 75 seconds long, so there is no question that the time over which the volume was measured was long enough.
There are still churches who focus on The Word as well as worship…not entertainment. But you may have to look for one.. The Bible encourages Christians to meet together to praise God, to teach and be taught by the Word to maturity, and to exhort and encourage others. If you are not honoring God with true worship and being spiritually fed by the Word, consider another congregation of Christians. Colossians 3:10, and 1:28, Hebrews 10:25, Ephesians 4:11,12. May God bless you.
Thank you for writing this. It states exactly how I have felt this way for many years. The church doesn’t have much corporate worship anymore and are not using the gifts and talents in the body. Also, The music is so loud and I believe there is a spirit of performance that has taken over. I feel as if I am fighting the gates of hell during this time. Really.
Thank you again.
We have lost the old time singing that the Church of Christ has always been known for.
I think we need to get rid of all of these modern hymns and get back to the good old days:
http://audioarchives.blogspot.com/2014/12/12-days-of-blogmass-2014-day-three.html
We must bear in mind that our Adversary was the leader of the angelic choir. He knows how to use music to deceive and to destroy. The terms “Christian Rock” or “Christian Hip Hop” are oxymorons. Music has three parts melody, harmony and rythmn. The God Head is in three parts…there is a relationship between music and the God Head. The 2/4 rythmn of rock bypasses the prefrontal cortex and affects our responses and reason. It’s not worship but entertainment. If anyone has an interest in this send me an inbox msg and I will share a link to a presentation that explains the connection in great detail.
Wow, I just had 1958 flashbacks!
Wow, I just had flashbacks in dealing with a teenager.
please share with me this link so I might have a better understanding because honestly, i am at a lost for words…. At least nice Godly ones lol
Roseanne Barr made a joke that rings so true to your statement: Christian rock, what’s next Christian porn. I love it.
Recently, someone mentioned that the most worshipful church experience they had taken part in was a large congregation in South America in which the song service was led by a single woman on the front row, facing the cross on stage, with a strong voice and an acoustic guitar who would begin each song and continue through the full and rich lyric in sync with the congregation.
When God decided to have His people sing His Word, he chose the “Jesus People” off the California beaches with their acoustic guitars to start singing scripture songs. It was received wonderfully in many churches across the nation, even the one where I was worshiping in Alabama in the 70’s. We enjoyed them so much for many years.
Then the bands moved in with their high volume, repetitive lyrics, distortion guitars, and entertainment agenda. Now, here we are, 35 years later, still trying to deal with a culture who listens to the latest in rhythms, complicated vocal melodies that span at least 2 octaves or more, and the best in pop, rock, country, You Tube videos, and on and on, and we want the same thing in our churches. I’m just sayin’. Rich
Dear Dr. Gauger,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Regarding your most recent statement “this whole volume discussion is beside the point,” please be reminded that the author and blog owner Thom Shultz, as well as you in your original post, both make volume part of your central arguments. Please see Mr. Shultz’s comments about “Blare” which is the heading he uses.
Furthermore, as there have been forces within the Church for centuries, certainly as far back as pre-reformation times but also now continuing on to today, which have sought scriptural, canonical, episcopal or now scientific justification for rationalizing a Church stylistically immutable and equally culturally dissimilar as it is ineffectual at communicating the Gospel in love to the world we have been commanded to “go ye” into; It is in this context that “volume” can be a subject of great importance as the volume discussion in many ways encapsulates all the previous cultural discussions which have come before in American Evangelicalism (e.g.: hair length, skirts verses pant suits for ladies, musical style, dancing, facial hair, attending and enjoying cinema, orchestration/instrumentation within the context of church services, etc.).
As to your other points, it seems that you and I may have differing views regarding how TWA (time weighted average) is to be defined and applied. The same may be true regarding other technical terms.
Rather than go into a point-by-point comparison and discussion, please allow me to just state that the duration of a typical “worship set” (for lack of a better term – the music heard in the church service) is of great importance to BOTH our conclusions as we both are making the assumption that the worship set is one of the louder continuous sounds heard by a congregant on a typical Sunday morning. If the announcements, baby dedication, preaching and altar call are all about 66 dBA SPL (slow) and take seventy minutes in duration to occur, with the worship set averaging 85 dBA SPL (slow) arguably much louder, with a few peaks going beyond to 90 dBA SPL (slow) and a few valleys at 80 dBA SPL for a duration of 20 minutes, the OSHA, NIOSH and ISO DIN time weighted average is only 70.22 dBA SPL. Quite reasonable, safe and relatively low!
For sake of argument, if we then turn up the worship set (only) by 6 dB (quite a bit), now averaging 91 dBA SPL (slow) with a few peaks at 97 dBA SPL (slow) and a few valleys at 86 dBA SPL again for the same duration of 20 minutes, the SPL average combined with the rest of the church service expressed as TWA has only risen 1.22 dB to 71.44 dBA SPL.
If we then assume the congregant drives home (20 minutes) while listening to the car radio (and road noise) at 68 dB SPL and someone carjacks their vehicle and fires a handgun during the altercation (150 dB SPL !), the OSHA, NIOSH and ISO DIN time weighted average actually FALLS to 70.82 dBA SPL! The time weighted average for the term (90 minute church service and 20 minute car ride) falls because the gun fire lasted only 2ms and the car radio/road noise for 20 minutes helped lower the average from the church service including the loud/long
worship set.
I hope this adequately illustrates how time weighted averaging works.
Thomas,
Thanks for your well reasoned comments.
I am still attempting to guide the conversation away from the side issue of “how much is too much sound” and back to the main topic of “Why people aren’t singing in church.”
My findings are that sound levels above 90 db (as reported by the ITU-R BS.1770-2 standard which includes a form of TWA) discourage singing, which is a different point than “it is too much sound.” While may need to disagree about how much is too much sound, how it is measured, etc.,etc, none of this changes the results of my study.
My lack of precision is not because I do not know about the issues you raise, but my efforts not to bog down a blog read by the general public with audio details of interest to only a few.
…..this has become quite entertaining!!
Dr. Granger,
Please do not interpret my comments to be an attack on your research, position within academia or your career educating students or as a musician.
I hope we can disagree (even strongly) regarding the conclusions while still being respectful.
Whether the sound level is too high, too low, or just right…when its out of balance it can be very distracting, even irritating. The congregation should be able to hear each other, and they should be able to hear all the instruments (if there’s a cello up front but you can’t hear it, why bother?). Lastly, the singers/musicians/leaders should be able to hear the congregation, for the congregation is just as much a part of worship as the people leading.
I stopped singing at church almost 20 years ago not because of any of the reasons Tom gives, but because I found out that, for me, my worship becomes more meaningful when I just focus on the words. It wasn’t unusual, in the past, to have my mouth singing praises to the Lord while my thoughts were on lunch and what I was going to do after the service. I wonder if that is what the Lord was referring to when He said, “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.” Isa. 29:13
This is excellent.
I totally agree, this is exactly what I’ve been thinking for sometime but get blown out for telling people. I think I would also add that there is a general understanding that you have to be musical to worship and there may be some truth in that but sometimes I think that we forget that not all musicians make good worship leaders
There are still plenty of other denominations the sing hymns, etc… Can you not go there. Worship is a growing movement getting larger and larger. My church averages 500 per service. There is nothing like hearing their 500 voices singing worship across the building. Worship is typically simple to follow lyrically and yes the music rocks! It’s fine to have an opinion on this but the reality here is that people are more and more turning to Christ through worship and it’s a huge growing trend throughout the Christian community spreading worldwide. Many blessings!
Jojo, where are all those churches that still sing hymns? Not anywhere (within a 50 mile radius) near where I live.
When church has bowed down to empty rituals and traditions of men instead of seeking God’s presence it begins to lose it’s “salt”.
When the church bowes to traditions of men and empty rituals instead of the presence of God…the churches will begin to empty.
OH MY GOODNESS!! Have any of you ever listened to a disabled person who is unable to read music or see the words up on the screen, but sings with all their heart in the only way they know? What do WE hear? If we hear what sounds like shocking tone, not singing the right words and grumble about them not sitting at the back where they cannot be heard, what are we doing?
May I suggest we are not listening as God listens. He delights in what He hears and I’m sure all of Heaven rejoices in that one voice singing their love for and to our Lord Jesus Christ. Maybe we should leave the “listening” to God and sing from our own hearts and KNOW our Lord loves what He hears. When such a person finally goes HOME to be with Him, he or she will be rewarded with a perfect voice and will sing with the Angels and I can’t wait to hear that.
If we all sing from our hearts, we are not then checking out whether those around us are singing or not. God knows where their hearts are and where they are on the road, as they walk with Him.
I also love to hear gifted singers and musicians. What is wrong with my enjoyment of their gifting as I sit in the congregation? What is wrong with my giving applause for their gifting? Aren’t we then applauding God for gifting that person in such a way. We should be able to see the difference between one who is entertaining for themselves and one who is entertaining for our Lord.
If we are troubled by what we see in our Church Worship times, shouldn’t we be able to voice our concerns and if the Church leaders will not listen, aren’t we free then to move on to a Church where we KNOW the Spirit of God is alive and open?
I give thanks to our Heavenly Father for giving me a Church where He is truly worshipped and His Spirit is alive. NO church is perfect, so it is up to us individually to stay close to God and build His Church based on a deep faith experience and not giving way to what the enemy wants….divisions!!
Visit a Church of Christ! We sing Acapella! You will not hear anything more beautiful than when everybody sings making a sweet aroma to the Lord!
I attend a Church that is moving in this direction ( lighting effect, loud, David crowder,), and it has sent the older people out as well as their tithes. The church is now failing because they want to cater to the younger culture, Well, I hope these concert driven youngster get some work. I call it the performance driven church, and if you were to shut down the glamour and go acapelo, you’d loose the youth because it was all about the music and not God.
I posted on my fb page that I would give a significant amount of money to the person who could answer this question and since many of my followers are performance driven, none responded.
According to Paul’s writing to the Church at Ephesus, the book to the Ephesians, as directed by the Holy Spirit to establish what we call the offices of the “five fold ministry”, why would he leave WORSHIP OR PRAISE or the office of music out if it was so important?
I recall an old story called the pied piper of Hamelin. There is a fine line as we see the dangers of music, a lot of compromise.
hello Luis, I hope this finds you well, I would love to try and answer you question, not for the money but so that you and myself can have a deeper understanding of Praise and Worship. But in order for me to do so. A. I need to do some reading first lol and B. I need you to to answer 2 questions for me. 1. To you, what is Praise? 2. To you, what is Worship? Please feel free to answer those questions through Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/spankee84
I read music. I have an avg voice. I have an opinion. I used to identify with the subtopics of the author. Here’s the problem : worship is not about us. Me. I.
Is the message here : “sing or be damned!”?Where do we get off judging others for not singing, or giving reasons for why we don’t sing? I’m insecure about certain things. I don’t like taking off my shirt in public, just like I don’t like singing at the highest register my voice can hit. And it’s about me, and partly my point.
We’re all created in the image of God, and all created unique from one another. We all have different talents and gifts. If sticking my hand under my arm makes a “joyful” noise (my 8 and 5 yr old boys laugh every time – now THAT’S a joyful noise!), then sometimes silence can be just as joyful at times. But seriously, can we focus on the gifts we can contribute, and minister and be examples to others through those mediums, without passing judgement?
So, let’s turn the attention inward. Is it truly a problem in the eyes of God that there are those who will not sing in a church – y congregation? Or just yours?
We have a small worship and prayer room in our city. It’s here that we worship God with their voices or instruments and her unpolished amateur sounds. It is a beautiful atmosphere where we know God is present in listening. We pray for city. We pray for others. We enjoy the community of hearing out of tune voices in the back of the room and the beautiful harmonizing of someone in the corner.
Oddly enough many people that come from mega churches cannot worship here. It takes them a while to decompress and just fully surrender themselves to worshiping God. They get hung up on song choice, excellence, the volume (they don’t want to be heard), The worship time is too long, and often times they don’t return.
But when they do finally let go and begin to truly worship with their own voice, or just with their heart from a seated chair, or on their knees on the floor in front of everyone, they’ll come back again and again and again. When their schedule doesn’t allow the margin to return for a season, and they finally do return, they become so disappointed in them selves because they forgot how peaceful and wonderful it is to worship God in an intimate setting.
God is worthy of our worship. It takes our eyes off of our problems off of ourselves and puts them on him and him alone. And it’s in him that we find hope, joy, power, authority, and everything we need the to overcome every mountain and the enemy in Jesus name.
I believe the Lord is bringing up small worship and prayer houses all over this world as we speak. It’s not like we are anybody that is qualified to open a prayer house or lead worship – my husband and I neither one of us sing. However, we love the Lord with all of our hearts, we know some singers and musicians, we have resources that we can use to create the space, and we have the heart to share it with our city.
The question we should ask is what should I do about this? What is my role? I may not understand the vision of a mega church and their music, but it doesn’t mean that I should criticize it. It just means I should do something about it.
Also, recently I was running errands in my city. I was greeted with smiling faces and I just felt this almost acceptance of Christianity here where I live. And I believe that the mega churches are trying to reach the lost and in doing so they’re changing the atmosphere to make it a place/city where we can open for houses, and enjoy worship in the presence of the Lord wherever we go.
In fact I attend a mega church.
The Lord convicted me along time ago “This is where you’re planted because I need you to disciple nations in their streaming in here by the hundreds take some and disciple them.”
So what’s your part?
hence why I haven’t strummed my guitar on a stage in years
Criticize or Judge? We are told to judge (not criticize) if we knows the bible well enough. Gift of discernment and knowing the Word well helps us to judge. It is God who judge and also teach us to judge according to His Word alone not with our own assumption but with the help from the Holy Spirit guiding us. Matured Christian with sound thinking will be able to judge but not a novice. We are able to know who are the false teachers and false Christians by God’s Word i.e.sharper than two edges sword. God knows who are those that worship Him in spirit and truth. If we ignore His teachings and follow doctrines of men or if we are serving our own bellies instead of serving Him, our worship is in vain. Do not conform to this world but mega churches has adopted all the worldly things (spot lights,etc) into our worship. (I am OK with music but not all type of music).They assume it is OK with God but HE never change. Will HE adopt to our ways? Has HE changed His ways because of His grace? We should search the scriptures to find out.
“Do not conform to this world” – so I assume that you’re opposed to electric light, running water, and heating and air conditioning in churches, too? After all, those are things that “conform to this world.”
“”“Do not conform to this world” – so I assume that you’re opposed to electric light, running water, and heating and air conditioning in churches, too? After all, those are things that “conform to this world.” “”
Of course NO. I play an electric guitar in my church. To assume is not right. We may debate on matters. But to assume or accuse is wrong. I believe we are mature Christians to understand things. Wonder why are you offended. Give me a scripture that will prove what I comment is wrong and I will humbly admit my wrong. Shalom.
meanwhile in Nepal…
So the line that you draw on “worldly things” is “electric guitar=OK” but “stage lights not OK”?
Thom, I’m praying for you, because I feel that you need to find a new church, or your church needs to find a new worship leader. If your experience has become this negative, then there are problems. Worship means “worth-ship” and God is forever absolutely WORTHY of our praise, and in fact, HE commands us to worship HIM. It is insulting to stand by mute and unengaged, when you are in HIS presence. When we gather in corporate worship, it is a time to draw near to God, and allow our hearts and minds to become open to hearing HIM and His word. Our worship leader, praise team, and even our choir, draw me in each week by their beautiful example of what it means to serve and worship our Lord. I sing the words to the songs, and I do become closer to HIM. I become humbled and grateful that “You my King, would die for me”. I am able to block out the loud singers around me, or even my own off-key voice, but when I lift my hands to HIM, I’m praising and thanking the LORD for being my Lord and Savior. I’m praising HIM for all HE’s done for me. I enter my private relationship and conversation with the LORD as I sing from my heart, of my love for HIM.
What is worship? Is it singing alone? Is it music alone? Is it the lighting sensation to attract people? Is it the good performance to attract people? Or is it obedience to God? Can a dumb man worship God?
Amos 5:21-24
“I hate, I reject your festivals, Nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies. “Even though you offer up to Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not accept them; And I will not even look at the peace offerings of your fatlings. “Take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps. “But let justice roll down like waters And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.
I love singing from my heart. This is one of the most times I have witnessed Jesus visually.
My favorite choir singer would get the entire church harmonized by having eacg of us sing at our proper voice range; tenor, base, alto, soprano, treble, etc. We’d sing one group at a time. We’d practice when to go next. Guests from outside would be blown away. They’d join in. They’d want to take not only the choir but the entire church home with tgem to wherever state or country they were visiting from.
Thank you brother Doug for allowing God to use you and your leadership. (Gift)
This has happened in many churches. Singers do not have to read notes to use the hymnals. My music education taught “intervals” first. It works. My husband didn’t read a note, but was the prime bass in my choirs. Shirley Mahn
I’m not a Worship Leader, Pastor, or musician. And I can’t carry a tune in a bucket so it’s safe to say I’m no expert. However, I make a joyful noise unto the Lord (although only He gets any joy from it) and it encourages my faith and helps me enter into a focused time of worship that carries into the praying and listening/learning portions of worship. Speaking only for myself and possibly others, if I don’t sing this is why:
1. I don’t know the song. But I’ll listen to it the first couple of times through then join in.
2. The song-leader sings too high or in a key that I can’t match at all. I’m not musical enough to find a lower range or different key for myself.
If you’re wondering from the congregant’s point of view – this is it: Moderation. Too soft and I’m not comfortable with others hearing me sing. Too loud and it’s just overwhelming. Old hymns are fine if they’re not too filled with old English or phrases that require a dictionary to understand. Contemporary chorus’ are fine if they have a worshipful message. (Too many Oooh’s and Oh’s don’t say anything.) Worship isn’t about me, it’s about Him so if I can sing without the frustrations and distractions of these things I’ve mentioned, it’s a more effective transition from a rushed Sunday morning to a focused attitude of worship.
I so appreciate your comment, because you have spoken on behalf of those who are in church to worship individually as we are led. You are so right that we are there to sing to our Lord and not to sing simply to please ourselves or others. Another reason for not singing may be that we are silently prayerfully worshipping. Not singing does not always have to mean that we are bored silly and thinking about what we will have for lunch. Yes, if only about 10 out of a full congregation are singing, then there is a problem and maybe the worship team would appreciate our encouragement.
The last sentence tells it all, I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation. It’s not about “I” and “my”, Paul sang in prison, not because it was his ideals situation but because it was an opportunity to worship. Stop making excuses and participate whole heartedly because He is worthy!
I see the same thing – no one sings – the music is so loud there is no point. The music is really great with talented musicians, but I miss hearing the unison of voices from the gathered believers. I don’t see it as a hymns vs. praise music, but more of a concert vs. truly participatory worship time.
As a former pro of nearly 30 years of playing in Rock cover bands, my experience has been that when you show excitement and skill in your musicianship and performance, guess what? People will sing at their tables or get up and dance. When your covers are poorly done, lack skill or are poorly produced, they don’t. When the act is good, everyone wants to get into the act.
I know that this comes from a purely secular perspective, but let’s face it. CWM has borrowed this combo rock art form and are beholden to many of the same yardsticks for success or failure.
I currently am the only former professional in my church’s worship band. I play mainly with amateurs in their 30’s. They do their best and I am proud of the way we serve our God and church. It just amazes me how we can justify a $75,000 sound system and other AV and computer equipment, but haven’t the resources to pay our at least one qualified professional to oversee it all.
So agree. Two Sundays ago as I was standing and supposedly singing – I noticed that no one around me was singing and that no one knew the song at ALL. I lost interest. I read the worship folder, I had a conversation with the person next to me about the lack of singing … and the people on the platform were still dragging through the same song. This past Sunday at the same church, I went to the early service and one of the songs we sang was Crown Him With Many Crowns – with the choir full-our harmonizing. Everyone was singing with smiles
on their faces. I have nothing against drums, guitars, or any other instruments, but please, please, choose songs we know and that have a melody!
If churches would return to the old red book hymnals with songs of sustenance, songs of realness, then people would sing.
i totally disagree with this “observation”. In our church as the praise band sings and plays I can feel God entering the place. Everyone sings and if we don’t know the words before the service we sing them off the screen just as loudly and with meaning. People this is not the old way vs the new way. We just want to help Christ win souls. Let’s not be negative. Join the congregation that fits you if the contemporary style does not . There are plenty of those still around. Let me just say to grow a church has to reach young people. I’ve worked with youth most of my adult life and they won’t get excited about old hymns. Sorry but that’s just the way it is. When it’s God-breathed it will touch souls whether hymns or Hillsong. To each his own preference.
I want to believe you, BUT when I look around, I do NOT see the young people singing hardly at all. It is mostly the 50-60 crowd singing, and even many of them aren’t singing either! So, I have to ask myself, why are we doing this anyway, denying many of us OUR way of worship? And, don’t say find a church that sings like we like—THIS church WAS singing the hymns when we joined 11 years ago. Then, several years ago, without any discussion or debate, we got a guitar-playing associate preacher in, who took over the music details, and now leads a band up front every week, grimacing and crooning out the “praise” music. And, when we DO sing a hymn, it is only 2 verses! Even with the words on the screen, if you don’t know the melody, HOW can you sing it?
Exactly why I have stopped going to church- I can’t stand it!
Well Merryl Streak, that is a sad excuse for letting this part if your relationship with God die!!!
i personally don’t like the 7/11 songs where you sing the same 7 words 11 times. To repeat a true statement does not make the statement any truer with repetition. Example: “God is so Good” and “A Beautiful Life”.
Another factor is the addition of religious garbage to the worship. Not every song that mentions diety is religious. Example: “Drop kick me Jesus through the goal post of life”. Another factor is the leader himself. You don’t see Jesus reflecting in his personal life.
JD has bought into the come as you are, leave as you were mentality. That’s what wrong with church today. We need more old fashioned hymns and hell fire and brimstone.
Point one: Hymnal vs Contemporary Worship. Jesus asked Peter, Do you love me? Peter said, yes Lord, you know that I do. Jesus said, Feed my sheep, again Jesus said to Peter, Peter do you love me? Peter said, Yes Lord, I have told you so, Jesus said, Feed my lambs. As ministers whether it be music ministry or Pastor you have to feed everyone. In our service we have both. We keep one thing in the forefront of it all though. The worship service is all about Jesus. That is a time that is meant to lift him up. To many times we want to draw that worship within ourselves and hold it there. We turn it into something it is not supposed to be. Sunday morning worship service is not meant to be a singing convention. It is meant to be a time to worship Jesus and lift him up. So I guess my word to everyone is this, Touching Jesus is all that matters…..
Word is to be rightly divided. No more OT only the NT. All Christians should follow New Testament teaching in the Bible. We do not live or adhere to the Old Testament. The NT Christians sang hymns, psalms, and spiritual songs making melody in their hearts. There are no examples of NT instruments of worship. Accapella is and was the rule. Why? The word is to be rightly divided. There is only one church. The church Christ died for by the shedding of His blood. There is one baptism for remission of sins. We are baptized into Christ and raised in newness of life to walk according to His teachings. His death was necessary for the church to exist. The church are the saved. The church does not save you. God added to the church such as should be saved. The church are His people not a place. We do not go to church we go to worship with the church. The church met together on the first day of the week to break bread. There was preaching, praying and the Corinthian church took a collection which had a beginning and a ending point. We are to give cheerfully not begrudgingly. God loves a cheerful giver. The Lords Supper met each week for the purpose of remembering and declaring the Lord’s death until He comes. They met upon the first day of the week not a Sabbath day. Jesus fulfilled the OT law and a new covenant in His blood came forth upon His death. OT is simply history not instruction for us to live by today. Singing is commanded today not with instruments. We have no right to add them or take away anything that is written. We sin when we add to or take away from what the NT teaches. We have no authorization for such. When we do, we put our will and wants ahead of God. We don’t worship to please ourselves but to please God. Read about the first century church. It is not a denomination. Denominations are all man made with man made creeds. You do not follow God when you follow man. It’s that simple folks. You can’t use the excuse “well the Bible doesn’t say we can’t do this or that”. You do what it says simply and consistently. There is your answer if you allow yourself to want to hear it.
The NT doesn’t mention proselytizing via computer, either. Better turn yours off.
“We have no right to add them or take away anything that is written.”
Didn’t you just “take away” 75% of the Holy Bible by removing the Old Testament?
“We have no right to add them or take away anything that is written.”
Didn’t you just “take away” 75% of the Holy Bible by removing the Old Testament?
And, didn’t you just “add” by stating the New Testament mandates worship on the “Lord’s Day” without instruments?
I usually only READ the replies, but in this case, I feel led to answer. No, I don’t have the formal training of a musician but I do have a small amount of music reading from school and church. I was raised in a traditional church, I have gone to churches that are non-denominational, etc. My husband and I have been struggling with this very issue for quite a long time now. We have been married for 12 years. He is one religion, I another, but the one thing we both love is to be fed by the Word of God AND the music that speaks to us.
I have been a church choir all my life. He doesn’t sing in a choir, but loves to sing hymns. In my case alone, I have a very hard time praying out loud. This is due to some issues in my past growing up. When I’m singing in a choir OR singing in the congregation, if I don’t know the tune to be familiar or something I can catch on to, the feeling of worshiping God seems to be lost. When I’m singing, before a service, if I know the song or the tune, I can truly worship and be fulfilled. This has been my way of “praying out loud”. I get very involved in the words and feeling “full” before the service starts, then the service it like the beautiful topping on a cake.
We have gone to different churches to find a church home. Some we have gone to, may be traditional, but they will take a “chorus” and beat it to death. They may sing it 8 to 10 times. Maybe that’s what they are used to, but for my husband and I, it’s like, OK, I have to sit down because my back is killing me and then, I’m ready to listen to the pastor. The next song will start out with one verse and end up at 5 or 6 verses. We have talked about it after we leave and we know by looking at each other that it was not where we belong. Maybe we are too picky, but if I am not able to worship through music AND be fed by the Holy Spirit with the pastor, then that’s not the place for me. My husband feels the same way. It’s very hard to find BOTH.
We recently started attending a church we have in our city that basically caters to the “misfits” that feel they don’t belong or are not accepted in traditional churches. We have really enjoyed seeing the way God is moving in that church and we want to belong there. Three things are moving us in a different direction. First, the band on stage…..we have to make sure we sit in a different location to not get blasted by the speakers. TWO, the words are on the screen, but they don’t have any rhythm to catch on to and the words are not written to where there is a rhyme that we can connect to. We try to catch it, but then it’s frustrating to work so hard on something that used to be so beautiful. THREE, we’ve been going only for a couple of months and have not heard the pastor even one time. It’s either a guest speaker, a special group, or the associate pastor. I truly believe that there are different types of churches to fit the needs of the people going there. If it’s not “feeding” us spiritually, it’s not the place for us. Every leader of a church has to decide what is best for the people in their congregation. If the people don’t like it, they need to talk to them OR in some cases, go elsewhere. As for my husband and I, God has a church for us and when we are in the right place, GOD will let us know. I, myself, can not sit in a song service and be frustrated that I can’t “get” the tune and words to match, NOR will I sit and listen to someone that can’t give me what I need spiritually. Not everyone wants OR needs the exact same thing from a church. If you don’t get involved, you can not enjoy it and end up leaving with an “empty” feeling. That’s not for me. Thank you for letting me voice my heart on this subject.
Linda, Find a church that will feed your spiritual needs. You won’t find it in a church with huge buildings. You need to look in the you-tube but be very careful because there are many heresies in you-tube.
I recommend – David Pawson, Paul Washer, (Atlanta 2013) 3. Question Answer by Zac Poonen
Warning . Don’t listen to Charismatics and Pentecostal heresies like – Joel Osteen, Benny Hinns, Joyce Mayers (Mega churches)and many others.
What is worship? Is it singing alone? Is it music alone? Is it the lighting sensation to attract people? Is it the good performance to attract people? Or is it obedience to God? Can a dumb man worship God?
Amos 5:21-24
“I hate, I reject your festivals, Nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies. “Even though you offer up to Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not accept them; And I will not even look at the peace offerings of your fatlings. “Take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps. “But let justice roll down like waters And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.
Answers – Some of my comments:
Worship is between you and God in your heart. Not the music or tunes.
It is your passion to love HIM with all your heart. If we can’t sing, praise HIM with your mouth, make melodies with low tones to not disrupt others. Singing from our hearts. Hearts must be right i.e. obeying and doing His Will. Hymnals or contemporary songs. Lyrics should be psalms or must be with good meanings. Bow down in worship. Rejoice in Him. Receive a Word from Him in worship. Sense the anointing and discern spiritually. Practice all these and above all is Love.
I believe you already know all that I said are scriptural.
Shalom
All I can say is the author must not have been in any non-denominational church recently EVERY SINGLE ONE I’ve ever been to is absolutely participatory. Those who don’t are the odd ones out in my church.
I’ve been to the mega church in Las Vegas and thought I was having a heart attack, the noise was affecting my heart, won’t go back. Another small church I went to I had to hold my fingers in my ears as music was so loud and finally I got up and walked out. Since I sing some I asked to sing for another church and pastor told me he would have to approve my singing, mostly pastors are afraid someone is going to take away their money if you try to bring good singers and speakers into their church. they are only in it for the money not to bring people to the Lord.
I’ve been singing in church choirs since I was in high school and they were still choirs. I now sing with our church band with my silver hair & hats. But I sang in the congregation plenty too, and there were lots of people back then who refused to sing the old hymns. My brother, dad & I were often the only ones singing for 3 or 4 pews. Some people just won’t sing. Our church now does both older hymns and contemporary songs. We have a pipe organ, electric guitars, drums, bass, a grand piano and even an accordion! And more. And I hear our congregation singing Jesus Messiah as loud as they sing Holy, Holy, Holy. But there are churches in town where it seems to be more like putting on a show than creating participatory worship. Volume is some of it. I think doing the new songs enough times that they become familiar also helps. We Believe by the Newsboys was an instant hit tho. Even though we get a little mush mouthed on the break strain. It is possible to sing a new song to The Lord, which is biblical, without abandoning the old ones.
Reblogged this on The Chordhustler's Barbershop Harmony Blog and commented:
Is yours a singing church? What are you doing to make it more comfortable to sing?
When I was a kid (here we go again…..lol), we had a singing school every summer and kids from all the churches of all kinds around came to it. We learned (or went over it anyway) all the notes and their value and how to sing. No one hardly does that anymore. I’ve tried to get it going in our church but no one really seems interested. When it’s brought up they all think it’s a good idea as long as they don’t have to do anything…………………….
That’s sad. I go to an awesome church. We know how to worship. We sing mostly contemporary and some traditional but everything is biblically sound. Not all songs new or old line up with scripture. Love all styles. I think everyone sings and worships our God during the service and if you don’t theres something wrong with you. We are a changing church. We constantly change to win people to Christ such as music changes, parking in strange places, coming at a time we don’t like to come so visitors can have more room. It is so not about me, or music either, but lost souls.
Maybe you should go to a different church.. If you continue to go to a spiritually dead church, that’s your fault. Dumb Article..
I’m 61, and I’ve been to churches with choirs and hymnals (that’s all there used to be), and for the most part… lip synching. The arguments about “performance” was the same deal for hymns 1 or 2 generations back. You couldn’t match the choir, so you stood and lip synched.
Second, as a previous worship leader, most people in the congregation have limited range, the men, even less. If they can’t read music, they only know the melody line with is waaaaay too high. I lowered the simple melodies down to a reachable range for men, and they started singing. — this was not hymns — this were more modern choruses and songs, chosen for their simple melody, limited range, etc.
You really miss the mark, by suggesting this is a new issue. IT’S NOT. It goes back 50 years that I know of. Today’s worship leaders are yesterday’s choir masters. They have a smug attitude that music MUST be played in the key it was written and if the congregation wants to sing, they’d better do it right…
I’m 60 years old. I have sung since I was so little that I was placed upon the pulpit to sing. I cannot read music. That hasn’t stopped me from being in a Christian singing group, being in a worship team, singing solo, singing in the church choir, or congregationally singing. I can “hear” the harmony notes and prefer to sing them. Usually, after hearing a song a couple of times, I can sing the melody. I prefer now to sing congregationally because I can sing however I want. I came to this decision after the last worship team I was on, informed us that we were there to “perform” for God. I was there to “worship” God, not put on a performance. I love both contemporary Christian songs & hymns. However, I draw the line at contemporary songs that don’t have a clear Christian message.
i am sorry you feel people don’t sing. I attend a church with : incredible vocals, professional instrumentalist , top notch stage set up, that ranks with the Best against the (secular arena). BUT, at any given moment if all the amplification is removed ( and it does happen) the atmosphere is filled with voices of praise and worship being poured out to God. Maybe you should try a church that is longing and reaching for the Heart of God. If we become spectators it is our fault.
Thanks for the opportunity to share.
Whitt
I do not disagree with any of these points, but I do not think this is a new problem. Since I was born in the 50’s, many people did not sing and it is not because any of the above reasons. It is just because some people do not enjoy singing, period. It is difficult for those of us that do to understand this, but look at old footage of any decade and you will see a congregation standing around heartlessly mouthing words.
We do need to be mindful of song choices nowadays so as not to perpetuate the problem further, but basically we have many that do not care to sing outside of karaoke bars when they just feel like being silly.
Im 23 been in church all my life and i do see valid points in most of these messages and in my opinion i does not matter what genre of music or if its hymns or newer. Im a local keyboard player for my church i cant read music but can still play hymns i dont see anything wrong with it. The problem i see with the church today is the disagreement of the older floks and the younger. I dont think it has anything to do with if they can sing or not. The old wanna hear hymns and keep the volume down low and the young wanna hear newer stuff with it blasting.dischord among churches can be the cause of dying churches.there has to be a happy medium in my opinion. We do try to mix the music at our church to satisfy most ppl but it doesnt work someone will always complain unfortunately…i think the problem is now days the yound tune out old songs completely and dont wanna hear it and doesnt move the bc they are blocking the spirit. Same for some of the older ppl. Old or new music doesnt if the spirit is moving and the worship leader is following the direction of the holy spirit no song should be wrong old or new its just the fact someone simply doesnt like a song or genre and tunes it out i see this all the time. Now days we do need to be carful and sensitive to the spirit.it can be easy to please ppl with what they wanna hear but like i said we need be sensitive and follow god where ever he leads us. I did say earlier we try to mix the music to satisfy everyone but thats not always the case ive came in on sundays and have a whole list ready to play and feel god moving us in a different direction it could be all hymns that morning or all newer or even simly accapella and thats when ppl seem unintrested bc its not what they want.my point is if this is the case we need to stop and check our hearts
When I attend the church services rather if I am on the worship team or in the congregation you’ll find me singing out the words of each song selected for that Sunday. I love to sing praises to my GOD for what HE has done for me. What a mighty GOD we serve!
The Reformation brought back congregational singing. We are exhorted to speak (sing) to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Contemporary Chritianity has stepped back to the Middle Ages in its worship in this sense, the worship team (monks or ecclesiastics) sings and the laity observes. There is no doubt in my mind that Paul, the other apostles, and the reformers would thoroughly chastise modern Christianity for this relapse into a kind of new formalism. As one who grew up singing in choirs and joining wholeheartedly in congregational sing, I find the current state of worship appalling. Worship is not something done by a few and observed by many, it is each person engaging Gid with all of their hearts, minds, soul, and strength. Contemporary worship fails in many areas, but singing is a blatantly obvious failure. Give me a traditional service with congregants singing wholeheartedly anytime.
I feel music and singing shldnt be a focal point in service on Sunday, sing to God yes, but get on w the message. Trying to lure ppl young or old w music is a long shot. Ppl want the truth about God. If they’re there to have a spotlight on them, they’re there for the wrong reason. Don’t think too much of yourselves, glory belongs to the Father. Stop trying to fit in with the world. Thats the problem with churches. Conforming. God does not change and neither does his message. Pray for understanding and spirit to share Gods truth. Its not suppose to be a singing spectacle.
I could sing if there were music notes to read. Elementary music classes and JH, High School choirs and bands still teach sight reading notes. The melody notes need to be posted along with the words.
If a church does not know the wonder of worship, it would be nice if it were as easy as adjusting the volume, changing the stage, thinking more or less professionally, etc. Its not a music problem – you need to look much deeper…
I feel like that this article is a very “me” focused article. Since when did worship become about catering to man? It’s the Spirit of the Lord that draws people to himself, and personally, I believe that when seasoned believers go into a service seeking Jesus, it’s going to be manifest in their expression…despite the genre, volume, and personalities involved. It’s thinking like this that has caused people to become spectators vs. participants, not the individual components of worship.
I agree with you – and, while I also agree that a lot of these problems exist, I’m never going to stop singing – and loudly at that!!! It is so precious to pour our love on the Lord in the midst of our brethren. I won’t let our fallen nature stop me, because it is Christ who lives in me! You will never find perfection in any worship setting – trust me, I’ve been in plenty wishing it were so. In the end, I’ve figured out that it was really me who was the problem. Why? Because it’s not about any of the things in this article, really. It’s about me telling God I love Him. That said, worship leaders would do well to consider the points of the article that could be removable stumbling blocks for our people
Good read! But I think what is not being said is… the desire to worship comes from the individual, not the setting. For example, in the traditional (congregation singing loudly) there are still the folks not singing and just mouthing the words to fit in. In fact, in the congregation singing scenario, I believe there is more of a forced worship. Like,’ HEY, I SAW LARISSA NOT SINGING TODAY’. God wants us to worship him in spirit and truth and not because we are made to feel like we have to. I prefer, and I think the Lord does too, that folks would worship out of their choice and desire to worship him and not a forced feeling of “this is what the church folks are doing so I have to do it too.”
I say this because… in the contemporary churches, the people who are belting loud are authentically doing so. And I think the non-singers are more intrigued to get to know why this person and that person are singing so loudly out of choice. God LOVES choice, he wants us to “get there” at the right time (relationship building) and not just do what others are doing (tradition). I was a non-singer, mainly because I can’t sing. lol But now I sing loud BECAUSE I had choice.
Sorry so long! lol
The one point I have not read in all of the comments is explaining a simple question, when I travel to other countries, mainly third world, and visit churches there who are using the same songs, same instruments, same volume and same bouncy worship leader style the congregation is loudly singing along as well?? This speaks loudly to the point that it is a problem with our me centered, consumer minded, the customer is always right mentality. So many of the comments state why that person has stopped singing or why they just “can’t” sing along for this reason and that reason. So many millions of other people throughout the world simply look at what the Lord has done for them and they chose to worship no matter the song or style. We really have bought in to the idea that Victoria Osteen made when she stated, “When you come to church when you worship him, you’re not doing it for God, really. You’re doing it for yourself, because that’s what makes God happy.”
Everybody finds it easier to ridicule and state what the problems are while standing in the back or outside the church, what America’s Christians need is a full understanding of what their life should be if they lived without Jesus Christ and they will sing His praises, not man made excuses.
When I read stories like these it breaks my heart and honestly makes me frustrated. People like this author seemingly look for everything under the sun to complain about in church. If it’s not the music, it’s the preaching. If it’s not the preaching, it’s not everyone stooped what they were doing and greeted me as I walked through the door, or I had to park too far away. The list goes on and on. Frankly, if you aren’t singing, it’s your own problem- a heart problem. You are focused on everything around you instead of the awe and majesty of who God is.
When I read articles like this, I am reminded of why the American church is virtually dead. We are spoiled rotten spiritual babies. Do you think the Christiana in Iraq & Syria are complaining about music?! No, they are too busy running for their lives. They are too busy proclaiming the name of Christ and in many cases being beheaded as they whisper His name. They know true worship and it appears many on this thread do not.
I pity us when persecution comes here because most will not cling to the cross. They will deny Him and run because they never loved Him to begin with.
Open your eyes to the heart ache of our brothers and sisters around the world and the next time you go to church, you won’t be able to keep from singing. You’ll realize just how blessed you are to even be there.
Remember this, there’s no such thing as a perfect church and if you find one, don’t join it because you’ll ruin it.
Can I LOVE this comment!?!?!
I believe people use all the reasons listed above as an excuse not to sing, but the truth is, they don’t want to. I have set my mind to praise God whether I feel like it or not. God inhabits the praises of His people, so look to the root of the problem; the devil. His job is to steal, kill and destroy, so people must choose: am I gonna praise God in and through this storm or am I gonna let the devil steal my songs of praise? It’s a personal choice…choose praise and do it! You’ll be glad you did! Your heart will rejoice!!!!
My gripe momentarily regards the technologies used for reading music and singing words. Very often, in churches I frequent, the song leaders fail to sync with the projectionist before the service and the projected words are either late or wrong. How can we keep up if the projectionist doesn’t know what’s next, and how can we sing the first lines of a screen if the projectionist doesn’t transition to the next screen until the last word is sung on the previous screen?
I see people singing and not singing all the time. It is a bummer. But I believe that the reasons you listed seem to come from an “all about me” attitude instead of an “all about Jesus” attitude. If we are so worried about how loud the music is, how professional,or not professional in some cases lol, the band is, or the choice of songs it seems like we are focusing to much on ourselves and not the true reason the music is there in the first place. I used to lead worship all the time and I expected perfection from my musicians. I felt like if we didn’t put our all into it then we shouldn’t be putting anything into it. God expects our best and you have to create an atmosphere that exemplifies the best we have. Not criticizing what your saying just an opinion
I think the issue is much deeper than a performance thing or people not knowing the songs. It is a state of the heart of people. We do nothing during the week to keep our hearts focused on God and the we are shocked when we are shut off on Sunday morning. Our priorities need to change!
I wasn’t raised in the hymnal churches. I was raised with the full band worship team with the mics. I’m used to standing durring the service. I have always sang out and worshiped with all of my heart. I don’t see worship as a spectators sport even though you can hear the team more than the congregation. With that being said; I currently attend at church that was hymnal holders in the past, and I see this happening. Many only stand when they are told to, and are embarrassed to sit down until told to. Many don’t sing. We have a full worship band and team that are giving it their all up on stage, and we have about half the people being spectators. Because I came from churches that have always had the full band experience, I feel like this article is full of excuses. I still worship God with my whole heart, and sing with the band. Even though those around me might not. In my church now it is mostly the older generation who were raised to sing only hyms that have a problem with the contemporary style. Worship is a choice. Step out of the comfort zone, and realize that you can still enter into worship, even with the full band happening.
It is a problem of society putting their humanity before God. They must look and sound as cool or awesome as the standard society has set for them. Singing is worship if done for the right reasons and most have forgotten or lost sight of that. It is very hard to be a Christian in our society, but it was never promised to be easy during our time on Earth. We live in a society that needs instant gratification or reward as well as everybody has to be a winner and get a trophy. I know where my reward is even though there was a time that I stayed away from church. God gave me freewill and I have chosen to be on God’s side as well as be an active part in my church and seek the lost hoping to bring one more brother or sister home.
This seems a bit over-generalized. This is not to suggest that a trend does not exist but my church is set up this way and it has not, as far as I can tell in the service I attend, hinder participation and worship by those in the seats.
well said! Exactly what I have tried to communicate to our church leadership for the last several years but they aren’t listening!
Linda, Most leaders will not hear you as they have theirs own agenda. Find a church that will follow God’s Word. You won’t find it in a mega churches with huge buildings as they have conform to the world system and trends with performance concepts to attract crowds. May be you will find it in smaller churches.
Perhaps you like to hear good teachings in the you-tube but be very careful because there are many heresies in you-tube.
I recommend – David Pawson, Paul Washer, (Atlanta 2013) 3. Question Answer by Zac Poonen
Warning . Don’t listen to Charismatics and Pentecostal heresies like – Joel Osteen, Benny Hinns, Joyce Mayers (Mega churches)and many others.
What is worship? Is it singing alone? Is it music alone? Is it the lighting sensation to attract people? Is it the good performance to attract people? Or is it obedience to God? Can a dumb man worship God?
Amos 5:21-24
“I hate, I reject your festivals, Nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies. “Even though you offer up to Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not accept them; And I will not even look at the peace offerings of your fatlings. “Take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps. “But let justice roll down like waters And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.
Answers – Some of my comments:
Worship is between you and God in your heart. Not the music or tunes.
It is your passion to love HIM with all your heart. If we can’t sing, praise HIM with your mouth, make melodies with low tones to not disrupt others. Singing from our hearts. Hearts must be right i.e. obeying and doing His Will. Hymnals or contemporary songs. Lyrics should be psalms or must be with good meanings. Bow down in worship. Rejoice in Him. Receive a Word from Him in worship. Sense the anointing and discern spiritually. Practice all these and above all is Love.
I believe you already know all that I said are scriptural.
Shalom
You’ve highlighted some external problems that I also see in church each week but ignored the spiritual one. If we have the Spirit, then we WILL worship – regardless of what others are doing.
220lily.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/in-spirit-and-in-truth/
you would be thrilled to hear the singing at Bonny Shores Mobile Home Parks Chapel in Lakeland Fl Jan Feb March April Hymns resounding every one joining in it can still happen
I can mitigate point 1, 2 and 3 with one single word: concerts.
They are a spectator setup, highly professional and blaring loud. And what else? Highly participatory.
Something else is up with why people don’t participate in church today, not these reasons.
When the music is about the singers and the musicians, it is not about worship. When the church is alright with mediocre words of praise sang over and over, it is about the singers and the musicians, not about the worship.
Oh, God, give us a heart to worship You with our voices–to praise You from the deepest level of our heart and forgive us for sitting back and enjoying the show and for those who enjoy being the show.
I have to disagree. I belong to a large church with a highly produced Sunday sound. Loud instruments, lights and props. We also have large screens with the words of each song on them. We are all singing along even when we don’t know the words. One thing I think you should take into account is that when people aren’t singing they are conversing with God in his house. Music makes me feel closer to God. It opens my heart and my mind and I find myself speaking more freely to our Lord. Whether your church is full of singing congregants or just a few in amongst the many, they are present, they are listening and they are feeling the spirit in that space. Who cares if we all sing hymns each weekend if our hearts are singing to the Lord our spirits are always healthier for it. Just my two cents.
7-11 songs and 3-word ditties. I don’t know how anyone over the age of 8 would participate.
I don’t sing anymore because the songs do not have much musical talent these days. To me all the songs sound the same.
No problem like this in our congregations. We have no professionals on a stage (no stage in our chapels). NO brass instruments or electric guitars or drums or amps. ALL congregational music comes from our hymnbook. When our choir sings music is usually an unfamiliar hymn from the hymnbook or other gospel centered music. Those who don’t sing are in the vast minority. We take seriously the admonition “make a joyful noise”.
I agree. I can read music and quit singing years ago when the words and the songs on the screen became weak, watered-down repeated nothing.
We don’t sing because contemporary Christian music is crap. The rest of the world had known it for years and most Christian young people today know it. It is the baby bonnet generation that brought it into church and won’t let it go. It’s terrible, the music is unsingable especially for a congregation, the words are either nauseatingly trite or a ridiculous and equally meaningless word salad(see days of Elijah). In my experience there is nothing more ridiculous to the unchurched than this awful display of clearly inferior music. I realize we got bored when we just sing hymns like dirges but at least they said something.
Bravo. I almost threw up the first time I heard an Amy Grant song way back in 1989. It hasn’t improved one iota since!
As a music minister as well…I agree with the majority of this article. BUT I do believe there is a time and season for everything. Meaning the hymns are the past and more contemporary is here now.
I agree with music and worship being wordy, which is why they are used for praise. We encounter a “praise” and “worship”. Praise songs should be the upbeat, crazy, “about God” wordy songs….and worship is the deeper more geared towards the Lord personally kinda songs. I’ve always said praise is about God (usual hymns) and worship is to God. We don’t use hymns because honestly the majority of people do not relate to it. I also never really make a set list that goes along with the sermon. Because we have no idea what the pastor has in store. If I’m really listening to the Lord as to what songs to sing…the Holy Spirit will tie it all together. Even when we make a set list it’s always considered plan B because the Lord may have a different agenda and it all ends up going along with the sermon anyways.
All in all. Just listen to the Holy Spirit as you are leading worship and if a hymn comes out in the middle of worship….especially in a spontaneous free flowing type worship as we do….that has happened….It has its time and it’s worth right then and there. Just the way our ministry does things. Doesn’t mean it’s the correct way….but it works for us!
I turn up late for all those reasons plus some dumb songs just make me mad.
Thom you do not know peoples hearts or if they are worshiping or the church who are you to judge open up your harden heart and look for the good in all things by pointing fingers and looking for what is wrong only sells books and post stop selling out things that are not going the way you like
I believe another reason people don’t sing is that worship leaders pick a key that compliments their own voice range without thinking about the “normal” voice range of a congregation.
I must strongly disagree based on my own experience. If someone is experiencing this… teach worship then. People understand and we are in a different generation. If your church isn’t responding in worship it is not due to volume or any other factor other than they wish to not respond to a God so great. When recognizing the greatness of God and responding to, it isn’t affected by lights, volume, how professional someone is or isn’t in leading you. Worship is our response to God’s greatness. Can volume and lights really overpower how we respond to such a big God? Draw near to Him and your response will be worship. Teach the church to do the same. The response will be worship regardless of the setting.
Does anyone find it interesting that out of all of the opinions and options out there. Does none inquire of God anymore? I have found that asking God how He wants to be worshipped, I get a response every time. Just because you are a worship pastor or leader doesn’t mean a thing if you aren’t asking God what He wants. I would have a list together and moments before starting our service. The Holy Spirit would say to me. ” Forget the songs I want to hear from the hearts of my people, turn the sound off” And I followed and we sang and spoke from scripture and from our hearts. We worshiped God how He wanted. And we saw the presence of God as a thick fog and had a chorus from heaven join us! Healing and prophecy are the normal, not a surprise. Now I would rather be involved with a Holy God who is receiving worship that He wants. And manifesting Himself with us. Rather than the same lame songs that are written by a faulted people. 15 minute worship and done. I would rather have an encounter with God that lasts for hours. Causing the roast to be dry and overcooked. He put a song in my mouth and yours for compassionate worship with your creator and mine. Why worry about what the masses want, who cares. We aren’t worshipping the people, the pastor, or professionalism. People will be drawn to the Holy Spirit not you or your voice! We are worshipping the King of Kings. Come as you are. You will never be perfect or professional enough for God. So stop making that the emphasis. I live in El Salvador as a missionary and I have been worshipping with tone deaf, no rhythm, loud people who have nothing but a fear of the Lord and a hope and love in Him. They worship not to sound professional but to encounter God. And He responds…. Why? because they enter His gates with thanksgiving and His courts with Praise. Time to hang up the microphones and smoke and mirrors my friends… It is not impressing God! The heart is what He desires. The passion for Him. And the inquiry of Jesus. And sometimes that comes in the form of asking not assuming. You want to see the Spirit move……..Involve Him first. Peace my friends and God Bless
Well said. I fully agree. There are just too many people misled in the churches globally especially in mega churches. We see God moves in rural areas in poor countries. Shalom.
Thank you for this comment of TRUTH! My personal sentiments EXACTLY! If we aren’t worshipping Him according to John 4: 23-24 IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH, we are wasting our time, and His. I see so many man made rituals that claim to be praise and worship, and God is nowhere around. He WILL inhabit the the true praises of His people.
I LOVE singing, especially at church. I was in 3 choir classes at school, & the church choir. But now, I don’t sing much at church. Our church uses a projector with the words for most songs while the pastor leads with guitar on contemporary songs. I don’t sing loud because I don’t know the melody, or how long to hold a word before going on to the next, so I just don’t sing. I need to see the notes. I need to hold the hymnal. That feels like I’m singing to God. I am soprano but occasionally sing alto to challenge myself & not be bored. But I HAVE to see the notes. I can see the distance between notes & find it. There have to be others that feel the same way. I like contemporary music, but I LOVE hymns.
Our church has contemporary music and most of the congregation sing along. Sometimes our worship team stops the instrumental piece on some songs with a more spiritually deeper meaning/feeling. Not sure where you (Mr. Schultz) have been going, but maybe it’s your choice of church. Not trying to be offensive, but they’re out there! I do admit they could turn the volume down some though, but they lower the volume on some of the more personal worship songs as the spirit moves it that direction. They bring in some older hymns at times also.Usually before and after the sermon because we typically have prayer at those times. Music is a very spiritual part of the service for me, I personally feel incredibly close to God during music worship. I remember hearing a sermon based on the idea that we all have a choice, some might say an accountability to glean wisdom from what we hear and see. In other words, we choose what we take away from not just a church service, but life in general. The glass is always half full Mr Schultz! We just need to choose it!
Another reason people don’t sing is that many of the older congregation prefer the traditional hymns they are familiar with not ones that a repetitive and too loud,
My problem is this. I’m a professional singer, I’ve led worship in church… but I don’t sing on a Sunday. Why?
Firstly the songs are unfamiliar (rarely hear a song more than once every two months these days).
Secondly, the tunes and rhythms are unsingable! The jumps and arpeggiated vocal lines don’t make natural sense – songwriters are trying to be “cute” with their tunes.
Thirdly, worship teams choose songs by incredible singers like Chris Tomlin, but forget to adjust the key for the congregation… Here’s a hint, if a guy has to sing everything in his mid-register and can never sing out powerfully (around A below middle C to D above that) then he is feeling impotent in terms of vocal power. Same with girls, they don’t want to have to screech in top head voice to hit notes – rework your songs to fit normal people’s ranges, don’t just take it off the CD and transcribe the chords!
That is all.
I don’t intend this to be mean, but I’m sure it will be considered as such. This article is just so whiny. The music is too loud? Go to a smaller church. Still too loud? Many Church of Christ churches don’t use instruments, so maybe that will solve your problem. Songs are too hard to sing? Learn them or learn how to sing. I doubt any church that can’t sing a worship song (which is about as simple as you can get, honestly) would be able to sing with “harmonizing voices from the pews…”
Now on to a bigger point: Singing does not equal worship. Just because someone isn’t singing does not mean they aren’t worshipping. I’m an electric guitarist at my church and I don’t sing every line of every song. Sometimes, I play my guitar and sing. Sometimes, I play and pray. Sometimes, I stop playing and just sing or ponder and meditate on the lyrics of the song so I think about what I’m singing before I sing it. There’s a lot more to worship than a simple question of “Are you singing?”
And honestly, this just sounds like a complaint that you as an individual need to solve by finding a church that fits what you think it should be.
Everyone has made some good points but after 22 years as a Worship Leader I think the reason might be very simple. Check everyone’s radios in their car or truck one Sunday and see where they are set. The same teens will sing Ariana Grande at the top of their lungs in the back of their mother’s mini van and the men will track with every word of Jason Aldean, just for example. The point is this, too few people participate in the singing part of worship on Sundays because during the rest of the week they give too little thought to Christ. We spent decades as a church trying to make Jesus cooler and the music cooler but on a whole haven’t helped people truly be Jesus followers 24/7 so that Sunday is just an extension of their daily walk.
Real, heartfelt participation will only take place when you stop thinking that things outside of you make you worship and you worship God no matter what.
I’m almost nauseated seeing how both young and old talk about how they “can’t” worship in certain environments, and I feel like they’re buying into the lie that “what’s on the outside will make me clean.”
If you’re clean, worship! Who cares if it’s only hymns or only modern praise songs. Our God is all-glorious and worthy. Our Savior died for us. Worship isn’t about me. It’s about Him. Let’s stop making it about ourselves and when people do things the way we like them and let’s be examples of heartfelt adoration to our Savior who loved us and gave Himself for us.
The problem mostly lies in that praise and worship has becomeca vehicle or an art to please man. Truth is, worship is to make God happy not man. Wven from experience, and after feeling convicted several years ago, I leanred to worship God with any genre even if the music sounded terrible.
I prefer my preferences of music, environment and all the goods that come with it, but ultimately if there is no heart for true worship, then everything else means nothing to God when its just performance.
God is atracted to those who worship him in spirit and in truth.
Well, I have sung in church for years. I don’t read music. LOVE the old hymns, and some of the new contemporary. Not a lot, but some that have the right spirit. I think the word spirit is the key. Are we in the SPIRIT of worship? Are we truly giving honor and glory to God, or are we just attempting to participate in a ritual of man? The scriptures tell us that God inhabits the praises of His people. Is God inhabiting what we are doing? If not, we are wasting our time and His. Jesus tells us that the words He give us are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE. He also tells us that God desires to be worshiped in SPIRIT. If the words Jesus gives us are SPIRIT, and life. (John 4:23-24) “But the hour comes, and now is, when true worshipers shall worship the Father in SPIRIT and in TRUTH: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a SPIRIT; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” MOST of those old traditional hymns are FILLED to the brim with scripture, with the word of truth.
I dare say that if we truly want to worship God in the manner He seeks to be worshipped, it will be with scripture. With Gods word that IS SPIRIT AND TRUTH. Are we just putting on a show for the congregation, or are we truly worshiping God? If we are truly worshiping Him, He WILL inhabit those praises. How do I know that, you ask? GOD tells me that in HIs word.
Isaiah 55:11 “So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth; it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
You need to find a different church.
I suspect part of the problem isn’t just what is happening in the front on stage. Cultivating a heart of worship, I believe is done in the secret places. Then, in times of church community gatherings, your heart is so bursting with what Jeaus has done for you and in you, you can’t stop yourself from singing. You need to come to my church. We sing and worship our hearts out. Radiant Church, Visalia, CA.
I really miss those old familiar hymms.where the whole congregation sings and worships.I feel closer to the lord when you feel at home in the church.
Paise & worship have evolve through time. latest is hype up like how Hillsong church does, add a hymnal song w/ modern interpretation added for annointing. Shortened P&W to make way for the message. svc is finish in 1 hour. this leaves people half cook & hanging. So whats your suggestion or tips considering. your observation. thank you.
I was raised Baptist my whole life and got bored with Hymns as a young person. After high school I got involved in an interdenominational church. They had a praise band. I enjoyed it and became involved and it is here that I began to understand who God was really in my life. It really had not much to do with the music but because I had a friend who challenged me spiritually and began to ask me about what my thoughts were on living and dying. I currently go to a Baptist church and I got a great deal of knowledge about Christ in the Baptist Church. I always envisioned in my 20’s a church that could have a great Baptist Choir and praise team together with musical instruments and the whole works that engaged the congregation to know that no matter what was going on in your life, God was with you and for you. I agree with some of the statements about staring and not participating. I feel like I’m going to a concert every Sunday. The music is great but what about engaging people in music. People are looking for a place they can belong and have fellowship and participate. This is not just about music but everything the church does. Are we being led by the Holy Spirit? I’ve been a part of great choirs, large and small and all sorts of musical activities in church. Why does it have to be a concert every Sunday? I don’t like it and I can tell you that as a young person, teens and older, I enjoyed the hymns, I enjoy the contemporary style and I do not think that it is about the style of music but being led by the Holy Spirit each week to do what HE wants. Its about showing people you care about them and engaging in their lives and not judging them but bringing them into fellowship, staying beside them through thick and thin, reaching out to those hurting and maybe checking on them. This requires a real touch, physical touch or verbal touch, not facebook or texting. I can’t think of one church in this area that has many young people ages 20 to 30 that could do a great deal of good for the community but they do not have many activities during the week. No meals as a church together during the week in some churches. No family activities at all. Restrictions are put on small groups as if it were a new concept. Whose in charge here, the Holy spirit or humans. Its really sad. I’ve been thinking about trying to do something to help, teach a class or something or open my home in some way. Still praying about it and trying to see what I could do. People need people. Just my opinion.
Another thought I have had is that too many young people with not enough experience in the world yet were given too much freedom. They were given positions of authority too quickly. Doesn’t mean they were not Christians but don’t we all know more the older we get? The elderly are wise and we can learn much from them.
It all depends on what you are seeking. Are you seeking to be entertained or are you seeking to worship the Lord? It is a matter of the heart and only the Lord knows your heart. Just go to the church where you feel comfortable and can worship in Spirit and in Truth – we all have different needs.
professional “praise singers”/music = part of the problem. (1. music too hard for most people to sing. 2. people get use to being sung at instead of singing)
other factors, cutting funding to public school music programs
paid singers at baseball games
parents having their kids cease singing in choirs at church so they can play soccer, etc.
parents not taking their kids to church all together.
a couple of generations of that = few people singing.
I have to agree with JD, our church is non-denominational Christian. I believe that capturing and engaging the youth is in the best interest of a church, they are the future of the church. My kids and I love to worship to the contemporary, modern songs as do many of our congregation . It appears that the majority of our congregation do sing, however, our worship team do tend to throw in some old Hyms as a treat to the older crowd. I have no problem with that, but I do prefer modern music, my family and I serve God at our church. Love worshiping!
Hot topic for sure. For me, it’s frustrating to have words up on a screen and be told to sing….SING? How do you sing if you’ve never heard the tune and don’t have music in front of you? You can’t just beller out any old note. Easier to be the mute statue. So yes…music choice comment was right on.
People saying, “if you don’t agree with the music, move to a different church.” That’s not a good answer for me. We joined here when the music was hymns, THEN they changed it over to modern music. And, leaving just because of the music seems a little extreme. There is more to a church than just the music style, that is worthy of keeping, right? I just ache that my kids are not learning the hymns at all, as all my generations before them have had, and they will not have that aspect of their church life to comfort them when needed as life goes on, second to the scriptures. I feel robbed in this detail. It hurts inside.
Boot, I so hear you in your response to music in church. I grew up singing hymns sunup to sundown-it was our lifestyle in small town America in the 50’s and 60’s. As an adult, while I do like some praise songs, most leave me empty. I want my grandchildren to sing joyfully and passionately whatever they sing, but I also want them to commit songs to their heart, along with God’s Word. I keep CD hymns and praise tunes in my Tahoe, so wherever we go ( which is several times weekly) they are fed His Word in music! To hear the 2 year old sing is precious. And of course I sing along in harmony so they hear how that complements the melody, and I have had no training-just years of singing and listening. So get your favorite hymns on CD and start singing with the kids, no matter how old! They will never forget!
yes, that seems the only way Penni. Thanks!
Non-instrumental music with congregational singing is still happening in churches of Christ. I’ve been to churches that felt more like a concert than worship. Many of the songs were more like rock music. I don’t go to church to be entertained.
These opinions are expressed from a mindset f self-centeredness. Those who agree with these judgmental sentiments are too focused on what they get out f worship, as opposed to worshipping God in all circumstances. I grew up in a traditional baptist church — we sang traditional hymns and people griped about it. The music wasn’t right. The song-choice was wrong. It was too loud. It wasn’t loud enough. As a pastor’s daughter, I’ve heard it all. The same type of complaints come from “worshippers” in all walks of church life. I have attended several churches that utilize praise bands instead of traditional music ministers and choirs — I’ve never experienced this silent, spectator phenomenon you speak of. I have seen passionate hearts crying out to God in the midst of loud drums, electric guitars, talented singers, and stage lights. Western Christians will always find something to complain about. Choose unity.
I have found the new music very repetitive and not real spiritual. Just loud noise. As bad as rap! I am looking for a church home right now and if I see a set of drums on the stage, I turn around and leave! So sad this is the way we are pandering to youth. It was not broke and this is not the fix! Let’s get back to worshipping God in songs we can remember and hear people! Miss my TN church!
My wife and I are christian musicians and play quite regularly; every week some times. What I find is that with many of the “Old” style hymns they “key” is suitable only for a trained soprano.
We perform these older hymns in a more middle voice to provide a better platform for community singing. You can notice the difference. This is one of the issues highlighted in “Why Men hate going to Church”. As a practising Anglican I have been to some of the more rural smaller meetings and it is quite painful listening to a hymn in a register beyond human and no one singing. On the other hand some of the “New” hymns are not much more than emotional “Mantras” with a rather mundane boring some what hypnotic trance beat. However there are some really good new hymns out there as well. I like and play Medieval through to modern; but it needs to tell a story and move me.
Well our church still sings & our congregation actually worships so if anyone is ever in wardensville wv come join us on Sundays @ 10:00 @ the wardensville assembly of God. Im saddened to hear churches are not singing
Nothing like an article complaining about the music in church to cause division and disagreement in the church. Seriously…..who did this edify???? I don’t remember the Psalmists saying to praise God or worship God if you like the music. The Bible tells us to simply praise Him….. that’s it. Maybe everybody should stop focusing on styles, the people on the stage, and volume and just start focusing on the person we are called to worship….Jesus.
The story and the message in the hymn (all verses) is typically the gospel. The hymns are what helped me to understand God is good, I am a sinner, I need Jesus. “Amazing Grace” helped lead me to salvation at age 16.
Whenever our worship team squeezes in a hymn I grab the hymnal in the pew, look up the song in the index, and as quickly as possible before the song ends I show my children that there is a purpose for the book with notes in front of them.
The worship team is great at singing because they practice the songs over and over. They are the musicians. The crowd needs the easy, consistent, uncomplicated rhythm and version in order to sing. Fast or slow, loud or soft either way.
“The worship team is great at singing because they practice the songs over and over.”
Probably not. I’ve been playing in worship teams for 15 years or so, and generally the vocalists run down the song twice in rehearsal. They might rehearse by themselves during the week by listening to the original recording. They are generally good at singing because that’s what they are – good singers.
As a musician I have also noticed the same for many years now. One thing left out of your great summary is the key in which many songs are sung/played. I am a pianist/keyboardist and I can tell you that I end up transposing most songs down, and when I do, the congregation actually sings! whether hymns or praise songs. Nothing turns more people off than to listen to their pewmate sound like a cat scratching on a tin roof because they can’t reach the high notes. Most new songs are written for the professional singer in mind, not the average church goer whose voice is not trained to sing with their head voice and end up singing a strained falsetto, which tires the vocal chords very quickly …. so the debate continues
If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Don’t stop singing; learn the songs, sing for the Lord and not those around you. Talk to your worship leaders. Posting here accomplishes nothing. As a trained musician, I have problems with some contemporary music, but I always sing to the best of my abilities because it’s NOT ABOUT ME – It’s about praising my Lord and King. When I stop singing because of any of the above reasons, I stop worshiping.
I haven’t read all of the replies, what caught my eye was singing to please the people and the fact that it has become a show. We are told for everyone to sing and make melody in our heart to the Lord. He isn’t listening for perfect pitch he is listening for your love.
When I started searching for a church to raise my new family in, one of the requirements was that they still used hymnals. Not occasionally… not hymns on a screen… hymnals. No powerpoint worship service….
So I guess it’s no surprise I’m now an Episcopalian.
Well … this article rings true of the experience at the church I attend with one exception: our people sing loud. We have blaring music. Professional. Rehearsed. Everything. And our people sing real loud. And I love it. Sorry not to jump on the negative bandwagon.
Let’s do this. First, let’s have a choir. Let’s have a vocal band in addition and as many instrumentalists as are available and practical. This gives many more musicians an opportunity to use their God-given talents in leading worship. It also promotes group spirit (like a team sport), fellowship, and “investment” in the worship aspect of church attendance. There are so many gifted musicians in many churches who don’t get to use their gifts because having only a small vocal band eliminates their niche of service. Second, let’s do some hymns. They are a rich part of our worship heritage. If we discard them, we will lose something valuable. Third, let’s do some good contemporary praise and worship songs, too. They have a place of importance as well, especially with the younger set of worshipers. (However, let’s not repeat the same lines so many times that they become tiresome and eat up the preaching time.) Fourth, let’s use the screens or monitors for the words, but have hymnals available, too, for those who want them. Oh, and let’s be sure the one in charge of getting the words projected onto the screen knows to anticipate and get the next line up in time (while the last word or two of the previous line are being sung), so that the first word or two of the next line won’t go unsung! (Does anyone else find that problem, if constant, to be annoying with unfamiliar songs?!) Fifth, let’s understand that just like we all don’t prefer the same flavor of ice cream, we don’t all have the same taste in music. But we are a family. Families care for the old the young and everyone in between. We must not let this become a generational war. Elders and their preferences should be respected. We wouldn’t have a church to worship in if they hadn’t built it and poured their lives into its ministry for many years. The young should also be given respect. The church house that the older generation built will be an empty, useless building in the future if we don’t reach this generation. We needn’t get stuck in a rut with either exclusive worship style. We should adopt the attitude that even if I’m not particularly fond of this certain song and it’s not conducive to worship for me, I see that Jane and John Doe down the pew from me are really being blessed and worshiping, so that’s a good thing! Worship music, like ice cream, doesn’t have to be all one flavor. After all, they do make “Neapolitan!”
Sometime you find that the worship leader is more of a musician and crates a team of great musicians that play music. Just because a person is a great musician doesn’t mean they are great worship leaders. Are they engaging the congregation or are they just playing music?
This article raises some relevant acoustical problems as well as the congregational ones.
Quite often the space that was acoustically suited to congregational singing isn’t suited to a gospel rock band. Sometimes, a lot of money is spent on making it right for the band and the congregational singing no longer works. The acoustics can be made to work for both but it’s a complex design needing quite a bit of experience.
Most commonly, the band has a drummer and a bass rig on a small stage which is close to the front seats. There is NO WAY this can work. Even if the PA is turned off, it will be too loud in the front seats and probably everywhere. Again, there are great ways around this but they take skill and experience e.g. setting up in ear monitoring, electronic drums etc.
Basically, the technology has been adopted way too quickly, probably because PA systems are big and glamorous, and the groundwork hasn’t been done to make sure the space can work acoustically in different modes and the band can play without blasting people out of their seats. So slow down, get good, qualified advice, spend some time and money on the less glamorous components, and everyone can be happy.
“in ear monitoring, electronic drums”
Both of those are of the devil!
Why can’t we keep the Main Thing the main thing? While many comments are truthful, most make me sad because so many argue points about music and say very little about Who we worship. Quite frankly, Jesus Christ is worthy of our worship regardless of the style or visual representations of the music. We serve a God who SPOKE the worlds into existence. A God who sent His Son to give His life to save us from our sins. I don’t care what style of music is used in a praise and worship service. I don’t care if I have the words and musical notation to sing along. I am going to praise and worship God cause He is worthy! If we don’t know the words, melody or harmonies, we can close our eyes and continue to meditate on God and worship Him from our hearts. It’s heartbreaking we allow such things to interfere with wirshipping God. Furthermore, my heart breaks for those who are allowing musical issues to keep you from attending church. We really need to get back to the main thing and that’s loving Jesus – praising Him regardless.
Its part of the growing luke warm church
This issue drove me out of the church… The traditional faction wanted more traditional hymns even though there was a service for that…. They even hated the way I dressed!! Historically speaking they would have criticized the way Jesus dressed too!….. The problem is the traditional folks do not understand that the youth which needs to grow in a church is being run off because of the attitudes about change!!! It’s all about me and not Jesus!!! I paid for this sanctuary not Jesus therefore I get a say in how it’s run! I used to love to sing to my audience of “One”….. Now I’m sad because the masses hate that I Honor Him and not Them!!!!
So, what’s so special about this generation of young people that they are so demanding to have even church things “their way?” Sounds spoiled. We were ALL young once, and we did not think for a minute of demanding or expecting or pouting about anything in the church that was not specifically youth oriented. We loved our old people and our worship methods were what they were, and we knew we weren’t there to satisfy ourselves, but to worship Him. The former system successfully communicated the Gospel to us, and led to our salvation. That today’s youth are apparently this arrogant to nuke their own heritage while strategically accusing the elders of being the party “missing the point” of worship is devious and sneaky and disturbing to me. Sounds contrary to 1 Corinthians 13. What ELSE are they going to insist on being altered to suit them? This is like religious blackmail.
I wonder what the older generation said back in the day when the now “traditional” hymns were first introduced and they were set to popular drinking tunes?
As a minister and someone who leads and has lead worship I agree with this article. Many have picked songs that are not friendly to the congregation to sing. The music gets to loud and to be honest it is not about God it is about how good of a show is put on. Instead of remembering Psalm 100 about everyone making a joyful noise unto the Lord. The teams are not anointed just professional.
We had a service 3 weeks ago, my daughter picked out beautiful songs by Jesus Culture.. As we were leading worship I noticed no one was singing. I switch to hallelujah course and people sang, the room lit up with worship. I ended with Amazing Grace. What am I saying.. People want to worship and praise God but they need to be given a chance to do so.
The person playing the Keyboard can’t read music either. They play in a Key in which no one can sing. They sing 7-11 songs (seven words sing it 11 times) that seem to be talking to/about you lover – not God. No one knows the words or the tune – so how can they sing.
I grew up in a church that only sang hymns. My wife grew up in a church that sang mostly contemporary songs. My experience has been one in which I can appreciate music of any kind that focuses my mind and heart on the things of God and helps me to worship Him. For various reasons there are hymns and contemporary songs that do not help me do that. The thought that God has stopped inspiring people to write music or that a song which was inspired should be automatically removed because of its age is poposterous. The more songs and Biblical lyrics you know the greater the data bank for the Holy Spirit to draw upon during specific times in your life or church. Sometimes we’re too concerned about what other people or groups are or aren’t doing and it takes the joy away…and all we have is noise…and He deserves so much more.
I wonder if the Church comprehends or even realizes the magnitude of What they Worship….
The lack of congressional singing is one reason we left our previous church.
Not in our church, People worship whether music is slow, new or loud. It really doesnt matter. Music is not the object of our worship
Having a God given built in amplifier, I find it exceedingly hard to blend in anymore. I can’t allow myself to loose myself in worship or it sounds like a solo with background accompaniment or worse. Yes, it is hard to pick out the melody with some of the newer songs so I pick out harmony and jump it up an octave so I’m concentrating on harmonizing such that some of the volume is lost – I have no idea how I do it but God has been gracious to so bless me and I have yet to figure out how what to do with this aspect of my God given talent. Having grown up promising so many to always use my talent for God and do my best as a child, now leaves me feeling as if I’m cheating my Lord.
I agree. I play in a worship band at church and my biggest complaint is that it is production oriented. In other words, the focus is on what the worship leader is singing, or performing, not community worship. Usually songs that the leader heard on the radio, but do not lend themselves to group worship but rather spotlight performing. With this kind of worship organization, we are a worship band, and not a worship team. But remember, It is never about us as musicians and vocalist, it is about Him
I don’t think it matters whether it’s hymns or praise and worship as much as it is preparing your heart, soul and mind for the service and for the Pastors as he stands to deliver a message that would touch someone’s heart. I was raised on the hymnal and as I have grown older(now 54) have sung a lot of P&W songs. If you prepare your heart and go into the service expecting God to show up in a mighty way, the song selections are trivial. When you feel inferior about singing along, just praise Him the best way you know how. You don’t see shouting much anymore and no one is complaining about that. Raise your hands, make a joyful (or not so joyful) noise. I can bet if your in a spiritual service, no ones going to notice anyway. It’s about Christ entering out heart and preparing us to share His love with as many as possible, not about the song. We have made it more about US and less about HIM!! Prepare, participate, praise, pass it on!!
Personally, I think you are spot on!!!
I do agree that for many churches the music is a show. You are not a participant, but a consumer. I’d add some reasons for why people aren’t singing though.
1. The band cares more about sounded “good” than singing songs and keys that are doable for the average person. I mean who can sing to Kari Jobe really? I often have to drop the key to allow church goers to sing too.
2. Worship music has become pop music. It comes and lasts a few months then isn’t in anymore. This is increasingly becoming a problem. We need to take the time and respect the words. Music used to be sung for generations. Do you think anyone will be singing Oceans from Hillsong in 20 years? Probably not. To show you how recent this problem has grown ask yourself what the last written song was that we will sing for a long time to come. For me its Blessed be the Name or How Great is Our God (released in 2004).
3. We choose songs that have not depth. Yes the band might have 3 lead guitarists, a light show, and a singer that hits 12 octaves, but without depth to the words, the music is garbage.
…I could keep going, but I don’t want to incite a riot of comments:)
I love singing and sing wherever I can. I am not afraid to sing loudly during worship time in my church. My pet peeve is how a lot of the worship lyrics are “me centered” and seem to be written to make me feel good rather than evoke worship of a great God.
I couldn’t agree with you anymore without actually writing this myself.
Thank you.
This current form of music is not supposed to used for congregational singing. If you’re some soloist or putting on a show, fine.
Look at the technical way that congregational singing is constructed and you’ll see why.
Ask any current “worship leader” and they’ll have no idea what meter is.
I’m a big Thom Schultz fan, but think he’s way off the mark with pretty much every word in this article.
I think sometimes that it has more to do with the actual song’s that we choose to “worship with”.
Most modern worship tunes is more about “me” and less about “God.”
When a person chooses NOT to worship, it is an outward reflection of their inward condition. It is called a “sacrifice of praise” for a reason.
I felt the same after checking out a few churches around where I live. One day I was invited to an acapella church. It’s lovely to listen to an sing with. You can hear everyone and everyone is able to contribute to the worship of God.
My church sings new hymns. I think singing is such a wonderful way to free the Holy Spirit and commune with those beside and all around me. Sometimes the old hymns make it into the music portion of worship and I feel the Spirit more profound. I feel like my Grandparents are standing with me in their Sunday finest. I feel like I travelled through time and I am a little girl again standing between them both. The top of my head barely reaching my Grandfather’s hip. I must sing louder at those times. Here’s the important part… God did not bless with a singing voice. In fact you might say, I was tone deaf and if a song came with handles, I still couldn’t carry it. I had tears in my eyes but my voice didn’t break with emotion when a lady two pews ahead of me turned around one more half way through “I’ll Fly Away”. The look she gave me, the mean hatred that poured from her sternly set mouth, not quite a frown and the way her right eye twitched a warning like a mother staring down a badly behaved child…. shattered my Spirit. Now I am terrified to sing. I am worried I offended her and I might offend others. My joy was crushed and the ache I feel to have a decent voice to sing in church is measurable.
Reblogged this on Brian Olson – Christian Speaker, Bible Teacher and Minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and commented:
As you search the internet it is amazing how many articles you can find on this subject. What strikes me about them is that my experience confirms what they say. And while some may want to say that we are making an issue over contemporary vs traditional, I think they miss the point. The reasons that Thom Schultz gives in his article are clearly not a stylistic preference issue, but an issue of application and presentation. (Schultz does a fair job of further explaining this in his follow-up article listed at the end.) It is this application of the music that has driven people from their involvement, not the style of music. People want to be engaged in the worship and not simply observers, but to often the music is presented in such a way that it discourages people from joining in. Maybe it is time we re-evaluate how we are presenting the music portion of the worship service, and some times the rest of the service as well.
I agree, I have noticed this in any Catholic Church I go to now. I, however, respectfully disagree with the reasons of blaring speakers or professionlism. The Catholic in me was taught that singing is prayer, a means to communicate to God, a way of worship…and that is why I sing at the top of my voice in Church, despite my out-of-tune chords. Because of this, my 3-year old son has started singing some songs already at the top of his lungs like Glory to God, Alleluia, and Our Father. Ultimately, I sing for the Lord because that is why I go to Church every week. I think some people just prefer to sing in silent prayer.
Our Catholic Church uses contemporary music at one Mass each weekend and I enjoy it at times. I don’t have a problem with singing some KLove songs and often keep that station on my radio. Even during that Mass, though, the Alleluia and Gloria remain pretty standard so that they can be sung from memory which I think people find comforting. Of course no matter what church you go to or what faith tradition you follow, there are going to be people who are more or less comfortable singing loudly and those that just prefer to mouth or listen. What is most important in my opinion is that the Mass itself is participatory in nature. Can you imagine attending Mass and not hearing the mixture of voices praying “Lamb of God….” or the Apostle’s Creed together? It is always a wonderful raising of our voices in prayer as active participants in worship. I have attended church with friends on numerous occasions when a regular Sunday service was just a contemporary Christian music concert with a short sermon from the pastor in the middle of the concert. I think this article is pointing to that type of situation. What I have experienced included soft bucket seats like a movie theatre with cupholders, a coffee shop right outside the door selling soft drinks, etc that people took in with them, a “sanctuary” that looked nothing like a sanctuary–no cross, no windows, no Christian signs or symbols at all, curtains, speakers, and light shows more impressive than the local community theatres, and a name for the church that has increasingly changed to first drop the name of denomination that it is affiliated with (which I was told was done so as not to put people off) and now has even changed the name to a totally secular name that could just as easily be any kind of business and a logo that no longer even includes a cross. There is nothing on the outside of the building to even identify it as a holy or Christian space. I’m not trying to bash the way anyone worships. I do think though that there is a difference between a Christian concert and a worship service as God intended it to be when He instructed the Apostles. I say let’s have both! Just don’t let the concert take the place of Christ’s Resurrection Day weekly service. (and, let’s not be ashamed to be what we are and shout it to the roof tops–exclaim it in our church name, emblazon it on our buildings–We are Christians!–We are ____”Baptist, Methodist, etc”–Welcome in and see that what we do here, believe here, experience here, and worship here is different from what is out there in the world!)
Anyway….I agree with you about why some people sing or don’t sing out in the Catholic Church. Sorry I got so wordy. I just get passionate. Wanted to share with you my experience visiting a couple of other churches because I think that is more what the writer of the article is talking about.
Amen sister. I love your attitude.
I’m old and I enjoy the old hymns. I’d like
to have one each service. I don’t feel like I have any say about it. The new music is nice also.
I would add one possible other reason: nobody can see the music any more. When we sing out of a hymnal we have to music in front of us, we can see the notes, we can see the rhythm of the melody. Throw words up on a screen & they’re just that, words. I find it difficult to enjoy a song in church when I can’t see the music & I certainly have a hard time trying to harmonize.
I’m glad that you’re so gifted Phil. That you are musically talented to read notes and able to harmonise. However, not everyone have the priveledge to receive the musical education like you do. All worshippers need are mere words to be expressed to God sincerely from the heart, at times not even music. You’re singing to God and not to the person next to you.
But we ARE singing to the person next to us as well. Corporate worship is more than parallel individual worship. In Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19-20 Paul encourages us to “speak to one another in Psalm, hymns and spiritual songs.” That’s more than just “me and God.” There are two audiences as we sing: God and the rest of the congregation.
Jane, I disagree with your statement “All worshippers need are mere words…” Some of us really love creating good harmonies. It is part of what we offer during worship. Psalm 19 says “The heavens declare the glory of God.” But look up in the sky – there are no printed words up there. Glorifying God may take more forms than just words.
All through the Psalms it says “make a joyful noise unto the Lord”. Nowhere in scripture does it say “make a beautiful sound unto the Lord”. I believe whether you can read a note, harmonize, or even stay on key, praise of God is beautiful to God, as long as it is holy before God and comes from a sincere heart. I have been blessed more by hearing a sincere heart who couldn’t carry a note in a handbasket give praise to God than listening to one who hits every note perfectly.
This saddens me. I attend a church that worships in the way you speak of. Thousands of people gather at this church to worship and grow in a relationship closer to Christ. The spirit in this church is authentic and thousands and thousands of people come to know The Lord through this church. Who is any person to say that this way is wrong? We can shout for a football team on Saturday but need to stand still and read a hymn on Sunday? Does that seem right? If anyone is uncomfortable with this way of worship, I’m sure there are great churches out there that have what you desire and would love to have you. In the same respect, I would appreciate it if you would not put our way of worship in a box and call it wrong, because its not right for you.
I will dance before The Lord one day…in the mean time, I will worship with all my heart. When it’s a genuine love relationship and that’s what you’re expressing, you aren’t standing around thinking about what kind of music is playing or who is singing, if the words are in a hymn or on a screen…you’re thinking about your Savior and honoring Him with your worship. Another thing to consider is that worship in this environment allows you to speak to God and say things to him during worship other than just the words of the song. If the Spirit leads me to sing the words, I do. If the spirit leads me to give thanks, I do. It’s being free in His presence. “Where the Spirit of The Lord is, there is Freedom.”
Great article. I agree. I much prefer to sing the traditional hymns that I know by heart from childhood. I think, too, that there is a reason why the earliest Christians were trained by the Apostles to conduct Mass in the way that it has continued to be handed down to us for centuries. Every part of the Mass, not just the singing, is participatory and multi-sensory in nature by design from God. We are not an audience, listeners, or even just students during Mass. As a very important part of the Liturgy of The Word, we do receive instruction from our priest in the homily. In addition to that we are active worshipers, penitents, and petitioners of the Lord together as members of the body of Christ. Participation is heard loud and strong all through Mass. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit knew what they were doing in 33AD when the Christian Church began and grew. If the message or delivery ever gets muddled it’s because we human beings have somehow thought that we could improve upon it or bring it “up to date”. The problem isn’t new to the 21st century either. We humans of all faiths have been making that mistake for centuries. Our Heavenly Father is perfect. Us, not so much. Good thing He forgives and loves us all anyway! Thank you, Jesus!
Quite on the contrary, I felt more comfortable in my worship as I step into these church environment as describe above. In fact, I prefer them. I don’t have any problems with traditional old school hymnal church environment which I grew up in.
First. I can sing my lungs out and no body will care if I hit all the right notes since the music is louder than my own. At least my neighbour doesn’t criticise me cuz they are the same. Well hymnals and worship songs are out of my vocal range, as much as I want to participate, my voice cracks and I sound horrible. I sang worst than the old lady in front of me, she should be in the choir or may be I should get lessons from her. Yes. I compare myself with the perfect worship leader on stage but I know deep down that God hears me perfectly.
Secondly. As the lights dim, no one sees me and I can just do all I want. Raise my hand in worship. Jump in praise. I can bring God my heartfelt expressional worship and not be judged by the people around me. When I was young, I can’t even raise my hands to God singing Holy Holy Holy Lord God Almighty or Amazing Grace or Be Thou My Vision. Let alone jump for joy.
Thirdly, music and songs being cheesy and all…? Well, that’s because you’re not even engaged in worship it is no wonder none of the songs touches your heart. You are missing the true meaning of worship since you used the word “lame” worship song choice. Those so-called “lame” worship songs are spirit inspired, bible inspired, a humble expression of worship to God pen in words or gifts from God. I think praise and worship doesn’t have to be fancy lyrics. I can sing I love you Jesus, thank you Jesus, come Holy Spirit – like for hours in my room and in church.
I believe this article basically reflect your heart condition. You are the body of Christ and the church!!! You won’t be able to find the perfect environment which you will want to engage in worship wherever you go if you choose not to be involve in worship. You are the one setting the atmosphere of worship around you and at your church. If you want change, be the change. Be engage with God and keep your eyes fixed on Jesus whom you come to encounter.
People sing in the churches I attend. You cannot keep the church in the dark ages. I will evolve.
I think the author is correct, that it’s the way “church” has been re-jiggered over the years. Gone are the simple organ & hymns or simple piano accompaniment. Often our services have full bands onstage, and it does, however unintended, create a theater/spectator ambience. Our praise & worship style often has one song running right into another and then another without break, which can also dampen people’s enthusiasm for singing. In addition, church choirs are a thing of the past in many denominations & congregations, which also separated the spectator part from congregational singing. I grew up in the late 60’s/early 70’s, during the height of the Jesus Movement. I remember a much simpler time, when Sunday morning service included no more than three hymns/songs plus one selection by the choir. Everybody seemed to sing then. Sunday evening was a piano or single guitar and simple songs, sung from the heart. On occasion, the singing was so poignant and the Spirit felt so keenly that the Pastor’s evening message went undelivered in deference to the songs. It wasn’t uncommon for people to get together, break out the guitars and start singing – and that singing to last for hours. Simple songs like “Seek Ye First”, “I Will Serve Thee”, “Hallelujah” and dozens of others. We’ve lost the fact that when it comes to faith, praise and worship, sometimes simpler is better. At least I know it is for me.
the band or the worship team may help usher us into worship however worship is the condition of the heart… one should not just burst out into song when he is in a church.
singing is just a manifestation of a expression of deep joy….thankful heart… or gratefulness to Gods amazing grace… its like a profound prayer with melodies… once I heard children singing worship song.. it brought me to tears.. not because of their perfect rendition of the song but the sincerity they have. Let us all Praise God for He is worthy of all our praise! Hallelujah!
I was raised in more of what you all might say is an “Old fashioned” Church. I had all the hymns memorized, i knew what to do and when to do it. Also, I have come to know what is more of the “common church” today, so I have experienced both, just like many of you. So, where to begin?
Lets start off with “What is the Church?”
– Webster Dictionary : “a building used for public Christian worship.”
– Bible’s Definition : called out group or assembly – Coming from the word ECCLESIA
Now, what is this “Church” group’s Main Purpose?
As Christian’s and and sons of daughters of the One True God, we have been placed here so that in everything we think, everything we do, everything we breathe… honors that ONE TRUE GOD.
So what does it mean to Honor God?
When we honor God, we are demonstrating the high regard we have for Him. We are reflecting His glory back as praise and worship.
The Bible shows many ways to honor and glorify God. We show Him high regard and reflect His character by being sexually pure (1 Corinthians 6:18–20), by giving of our income (Proverbs 3:9), and by living lives devoted to Him (Romans 14:8). It is not enough to merely honor Him outwardly. God desires honor that comes from our hearts. “The Lord says, ‘These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me’” (Isaiah 29:13). When we delight in the Lord (Psalm 37:4), seek Him in everything we do (1 Chronicles 16:11; Isaiah 55:6), and make choices that reflect the place He has in our hearts, we bring Him the greatest honor.
The Biggest part in there that describes worship for me is this line, “The Lord says, ‘These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me’” (Isaiah 29:13)
I guess what I’m trying to get across is that, whoever we are, wherever we are… WE are CHRISTIANS and we have found the light. That alone should be enough to make us not want to be quiet WHEREEVER we are at. I want to scream His glories on the roofs! I want to be the person so filled with God and His Spirit that I can’t contain myself. Because if I contain myself, if i say I’m not going to sing because the music is too loud, I don’t like the song choice, or because they sing better than I do… What Christian am I? Don’t sing because you fell comfortable doing it at Church, sing because you’re so over joyed in who God is and who He has made you through His LOVE and His Son. Sing because he is worthy of it.
(Luke 19: 37-40)
37 “As he was drawing near—already on the way down the Mount of Olives—the whole multitude of his disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen, 38 saying, ‘Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!’ 39 And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, ‘Teacher, rebuke your disciples.”’40 He answered, ‘I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.'”
I’m not gonna give any rocks a chance to sing…
The music is an offering to god not you also spare a thought to the music team that practice pray give up there time etc to honour god and the gifts he gave them.
All I have say is every church and all
Pastors and people of God needs prayer they just go to church and think they are saved because the are going
Some go just to talk about this one and that one need the. Spirit of God to be in the churches today God. wants us to worship him in music pepole don’t go they think it’s a joke Gods not there
I saw people sing new songs but have not spiritually grown.. but some who doesn’t care whether new or old, has Spiritually grown.
In many gatherings, one can hardly hear herself think, much less sing to the music. People have been conditioned to show up for entertainment — “I enjoyed the music, I enjoyed the children, I enjoyed the sermon, I enjoyed the Anthem, etc, etc.” Then, when all the preliminaries are done, we we are set to be “fed” by the sermon & later decide if we “enjoyed” that–or not!
Corporate worship, as the name implies, is meant to be a group experience, not a stage presentation to an audience. We’ve come a long way from worship “In Spirit and in Truth”” and it will take some serious and discerning leadership to help us find our way back.
We must all want to feel the presence of the Lord singing does that for me
Try it and see if it will do same for you praying is answer also.
Everybody worships in their own way. Some might just like to take in the message. Some want to raise their hands to the sky, some like to sing loudly and others like to simply be part of it all. Don’t worry too much about what the other people are doing there. Be glad they are there and use your time wisely. And if it’s about music style or choice then choose a different church or different service at that church that may cater more to your particular style. Remember why we are there
All spiritual issues aside, one practical problem with much of today’s modern worship is that it’s not set in a key comfortable for most people. The power tenor leading the service may love the way his voice sounds singing E, F#, G, but the average person (baritone, bass, alto) is struggling. Men try droning along an octave below (which may sound odd to them), women can’t decide which octave to sing in, many just don’t sing at all.
This is not only in modern worship–many hymns are set with a tacitura (average pitch) higher than most can comfortably sing. These can easily be transposed down.
Worship leaders: if you truly desire corporate worship, your goal should be to remove ALL barriers, be they technical or aesthetic. You love singing Tomlin in the original key? Congratulations–you’re in rare company. Please consider the majority of your congregants who feel inadequate and uncomfortable singing in the rarified air of the true tenor.
I do sing but rarely do I recognize the songs so I struggle with the melody and the words. Worsihip songs seem to be about the content of the message and not the act of worshipping Him. I find myself ignoring the words on the screen and singing in tounges to take the thinking out and concentrate on singing to Him. He loves our voice however unprofessional it my be. I have watched the worship leaders go from choir directors to performance leaders in the last 20 years and witnessed the audience participation decline.
While I do agree that some worship can become concert-like at times, who’s to say it cannot be a worshipful concert? If the people of the church are open and willing to hear the words that are being sung, can they not worship, either in their hearts or with their mouths? Being silent in the midst of loud music can be worship (Psalm 46:10), just as much as singing at the top of your lungs is worship (Psalm 20:5, 71:23, 100:1, etc.). Likewise, because “worship” is not synonymous with “singing” or “music” (but can include music if you choose), people can worship in many ways, including dancing, writing, teaching, praying, serving, and so much more. There is more I can say, but my blog post from a couple of months ago pretty much says it all. With that, I encourage you to read my post (to get to the main point, go to about halfway through the post): http://message5-17.blogspot.com/2015/04/weekend-of-leadership.html?m=1
I am somewhat of a musician, can read music, play the trumpet, sing, and led worship at my church for a few years. A major problem I see with the contemporary church music is that it’s only singable if you have a high voice (soprano, tenor). If guitar players would learn to write music in something other than the keys of G, D, and E, and find more singable keys and keep the melody range reasonable, and not skip all over the place, perhaps more people would join in and be willing to learn new songs.
My feelings exactly, as if I had spoken the words. I may be old-fashioned, but my soul yearns for the good old hymns that stirred my soul when I first started going to a Pentecostal Church & made me want to be a part of it. They say the young people like the new type of music. I wonder if the young people have ever heard “The Old Rugged Cross”, “What A Friend We Have In Jesus”, “Farther Along We’ll Know All About it”, etc. One of my favorites was “He Brought Me Out Of The Mirey Clay”. i do not want to come across as disagreeable or rebellious, but the last time I checked churches are for the young and the old.
Well we could always focus on the word of God instead of Michael W Smiths catalog of songs. I go to church to learn. Not sure when the word of God became secondary to song. My church sings for over an hour sometimes 2 and the word given lasts 30 minutes at best. I am shopping for a new church.
Since when does music dictate our worship? The person who can’t worship if the music isn’t just right doesn’t understand what worship is. We worship God for who he is. He’s our redeemer, our healer, our provider and so much more! So if the music isn’t just right you can’t worship the one who created you? Who came to earth and died for you? We should worship no matter if we like the song or not…no matter if it’s our style or the farthest thing from it because God deserves it. I do believe you should find a church that fits you and has what you need in your life. But when we can’t worship because of the music, we need to work our relationship with God!
We sing accabela in our church and it is music to my ears. No loud guitars no drums no leaders on mics just voices singing praise. I do agree with some of the songs being unfamiliar to me and prefer the old hymns but guess that tells my age
I attended a church where the chorister would stop in the middle of a hymn and tell the congregation that they could sing with a little more enthusiasm, at that point she usually had them stand up. It worked great, we sang with more enthusiasm and you could feel the spirit in attendance.
thank you! It seems more like going to a performance than going to worship. These big mega churches do nothing for me. Sure God still speaks to my heart amid the fluff and glitter but for the most part it feels…. wrong or off somehow. I look at the in house coffee shops and the bookstores and wonder about the story of Jesus turning over the tables of the money changers.
Where did the respect and reverence go?
Agreed. You are right. I feel the same as you because of the same Holy Spirit inside us. Money is their idol because by selling books, etc. for profit, the bible tells us Jesus hated that, turning over the tables of the money changers who were selling doves and things for the sacrifices and offerings which were required by God in the OT. Love of money is as idolatry.
I find many songs in church to be tenth rate compositions; badly crafted, if “crafted ” at all. The music is limited to a few chords on a guitar and pitched at a level that makes it impossible for me to sing. So I mime.
I’m not against modern hymns as long as they are well written with some biblical basis, and there are plenty of them. But there is a lot of junk as well. What is the thought behind “I will sing,sing, sing,sing, sing sing, etc,or “holy….” repeated nine or ten times? And so I could go on. I the songs are uninspiring, so will the singing be.
It’s true that many people no longer sing, particularly older people and specifically men. Its not just that contemporary church music represents an unfamiliar style that we are not accustomed too. It that contemporary music is pretty much rubbish. I know some will say that there is some good contemporary music, well maybe, but the other 98% of it that’s junk is giving it a bad name. It’s repetitive, puerile, shallow, sensationalistic and ephemeral, and it’s killing the church by alienating and driving aware mature Christians.
I miss hymnals. See the words on the wall w/o the notes just plain sucks. When I requested hymnals I was berated. We don’t worship at that church anymore.
I can sum up real easily why the congregation doesn’t sing in the pews anymore. The people in the pews listening to the worship leader simply domt know and are not familiar with the songs! The song leaders and musicians have prayed about what songs to do for that day and practiced them, not for a performance, but for praise to a risen Saviour! It would do the Church some good to get reconnected to Christian music, so that we would be familiar with the songs and sing along. The sad truth is that most people sitting in the pews couldn’t tell you the newest Christian song out or group but could name the top 5 in Country, Pop, or whatever else, and sing word for word the latest Taylor Swift song. Word for the Church, “reintroduce” ourselves to Christian music. Start surrounding ourselves with songs that uplift and praise our Lord. If we would do this by the time the Church doors were opened, we would be ready to praise our risen Lord!!
Hey Tom, our church came to this realization several years ago and changed the way we did the music time in our services. You should come visit!
david@ctkstl.org
I know the music is to reach a lot of the younger generation, BUT, the older generation isn’t dead! As an older generation we still like more up beat real music. I am 60 and really, really miss some of what was good music that just made you come alive! So many of the songs today are so hum drum depressing! Yes I see everyone standing barely moving there lips and then an amazing thing happens…they throw the older generation a bone! The room comes alive because we know the music! 🙂 You can actually hear people singing, then the young group on stage changes the notes to a more somber sound! They just can’t seem to just let us have one song the way it was written! So no more choirs! We have seriously thought to stay home and watch it on T.V., where there are choirs and music we know and like. But we also have grandchildren and know they need to be in church. We are sometimes the ones to take them. Practice what we preach! I can say, when you lose the old money in the church, you come close to losing some of the helpers in the church and trips to camp or to do mission work because the funds aren’t there! I’m not saying the younger people don’t have the funds but they are mortgaged to the top of there heads! So give us one or two of the songs we know and you have happy campers!
Everyone is missing the need to love each other. What I want to sing is important TO YOU, my brother, if you can find some love. What you want to sing is important to me if I love you. They will know us by our love, not our songs. If the songs used are diverse in type, in the best of all churches, it’s because the people are diverse. But they could be the same and be just as good, if the church like the sameness of the songs.
I think, just maybe, God would smile if we deferred to each other just a bit more.
This is too true. Keep It Simple, Saints, should be every worship leader’s mantra.
the reason I dont sing anymore is due to they will sing one song with the verse over and over like their own private concert. We enter worship with a song or 2 then the worship group will start singing while we stand for 1/2 hour or more, then get to the announcements for 5 minutes, then another song for offerings, then a 10 to 15 minute sermon, and finally another song for the end which of course goes over the time every time.
I would like to have familiar hymns sung at our church. We are like a lot of these other churches where they sing unknown hymns so no one sings just stand there which I am one of those. The familiar ones have so much more meaning and we all love it when we get to sing one of those. The church service is so much better with these kind of hymns. I’m not the only one in our church that feels this way.
Very thought provoking. In the worship setting I am in, I can’t really tell if those around me are singing because of the volume and because i haven’t looked to see, but I know they are moving with the music. I actually don’t mind the volume because I can’t sing but I love to sing, therefore I can sing as loud as I want and not hurt anyone’s ears:)
TRL I’m with you 100%…thanks for your words…
I believe another reason why people don’t sing is because we have lost focus on the fact that singing is not about whether you can blend in with the congregation or hit a note. It’s about focusing all your heart and your mind and your thoughts towards the worshiping the God of all creation. When someone does that it doesn’t matter how loud the music is or what type of music it is or whether anybody’s looking at you or not because worship is about you praising God in spirit and in truth.
Ya really cant please everyone all the time. I mean, I have my many many opinions about this topic and if I started, I would not stop. So lets just say this: if you don’t like your worship service, and you don’t feel alive anymore, #1–Check your relationship with Him. If that is intact proceed to #2–Check the atmosphere of your heart. Meaning: any unforgiveness anywhere? Any bitterness? Ask Him to show you what needs to change within YOU. If all that checks out, then pray for your team. If that doesn’t change either YOU or the situation, proceed to step #3–Go where you can feel alive.
Amen, Nanette! That’s the best response I’ve seen in this whole thread.
I think this is a waste of an article. To be honest. I think if this person truly wanted to further the kingdom they would write something more edifying for the soul. I believe that the worship experience is the individuals responsibility. Although worship leaders can help usher the congregation into the presence of God, I feel it’s up to the person to reach down and sing from their core and worship the almighty. It’s the same when listening to a sermon… You can critique the pastor for the way he or she delivers it, or take the bits and pieces that are relevant to you.
Learn these tunes before you learn any others; afterwards learn as many as you please.
Sing them exactly as they are printed here, without altering or mending them at all; and if you have learned to sing them otherwise, unlearn it as soon as you can.
Sing all. See that you join with the congregation as frequently as you can. Let not a slight degree of weakness or weariness hinder you. If it is a cross to you, take it up, and you will find it a blessing.
Sing lustily and with a good courage. Beware of singing as if you were half dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength. Be no more afraid of your voice now, nor more ashamed of its being heard, than when you sung the songs of Satan.
Sing modestly. Do not bawl, so as to be heard above or distinct from the rest of the congregation, that you may not destroy harmony, but strive to unite your voices together, so as to make one clear melodious sound.
Sing in time. Whatever time is sung be sure to keep with it. Do not run before nor stay behind it; but attend close to the leading voices, and move therewith as exactly as you can; and take care not to sing too slow. This drawling way naturally steals on all who are lazy; and it is high time to drive it out from us, and sing all our tunes just as quick as we did at first.
Above all sing spiritually. Have an eye to God in every word you sing. Aim at pleasing him more than yourself or any other creature. In order to do this attend strictly to the sense of what you sing, and see that your heart is not carried away with the sound, but offered to God continually; so shall your singing be such as the Lord will approve here, and reward you when he cometh in the clouds of heaven.
Interesting article, however authentic praise and worship comes from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, grounded by the word of God and led by the Holy Spirit. If I choose not to sing, then I have made a decision to worship something/someone else, other than the PERSON who gave me eternal life.
I grew up singing harmony in church and felt close to God through the inspiring music.
I don’t sing in church anymore and that saddens me. There is no music provided and I don’t know where the song is going next.
I also have a problem when the lights are turned down in the congregation and up on the platform. Just like a show. Worship should be in the light! Evil delights in the darkness. Maybe that is another reason why people don’t sing, they are conditioned to be quieter in the dark.
I really glad I came across this article and all of these comments. I am one of 4 different worship leaders at my church and I’m also the youngest so my preferred style of worship is often looked down on. Because if that, I ended up taking the stance that they are terrible people and know nothing, but I have had a struggle over the last few years of trying to not think that way and just ask God to come be a part of the worship experience. Reading these comments has given me some good perspective and the bottom line is that worship was designed for us to remember how great God is and tell him. Need to get back on track with the true meaning of worhsip.
Another thing to consider is that there once was a time when everyone sang, and not just in church. Some parts of the world still do – just go to any church in Africa, or pub in Ireland… But in North America we have somehow adopted the idea that if you can’t win American Idol, even if you can generally carry a tune, then you should not be singing. It’s a travesty. Sing loud and sing often!!!
i think the choice of song matters more than just its unfamiliarity. There are hymns/songs that aim down -from God to us, aim up – from us to God, and aim on a level plane – from man-to-man. I’ve noticed most songs sung these days are man-to-man, and that’s great to encourage one another and even has its place in church singing… however, it’s the songs that go up and the songs that come down that remind us of who GOD is and evoke worship of him. Singing man-to-man shifts the focus the wrong way. That lends to the feeling that you’re in a concert rather than a worship service.
I agree with this article and perspective. Not being a vocalist, the writter left out a major reason why many are not able to sing during worship or are not able to sing as they would like to. It’s the key that is chosen to sing the songs in. When the congregation is not singing with all their hearts it usually a sign that song key chosen is too high a range for the average person. The keys that the original artist recorded the songs in are almost always significantly above the range of the average vocalist. Many worship leaders realize this and arrange the songs in a lower middle range so that almost everyone male and female can sing the song with comfort, this allows the congregation to be able to worship with all their hearts instead of straining to sing or give up all together which is what this wriiter is alluding to. I know having been a worship leader that I regularly led worship where the songs keys I choose were lower than what I would have preferred and where I would have sounded better but I would watch and see the congregation joyfully singing their hearts out to God. I always would be aware of the congrgation and if I did not see 90% or so fully engaged in worship, I knew something needed to be corrected. It could be the song was too high or it could be one of the other factors mentioned in this article. In my view it is the responsibility of the worship leader to lead the congregation into worship so that we all can worship the Lord as one voice.
Way to fob off responsibility for your worship on somebody else! If you really want to worship God, who cares if it’s a praise chorus or a professional singer up there? Who cares if it’s Bach or some worship song? Is that what this is about? Personal preferences for how you want to be coddled during a church service? What’s next? “Well, that song’s in B-flat, and I only sing in F-major, so I won’t sing that!” “That song uses the word ‘thou’, and I can’t relate to that, so I won’t sing that.” Dammit! Stop being so freakin’ precious, people. This isn’t about you. If you want to worship God, then open your yap and sing! Yeesh!
We’ll said, Kate.
Well said, Kate.
Using curse words to make a religious point…….WWJD
Do it in Aramaic?
That’s not even funny! Colossians 3:8
8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.
Yes, because typing “dammit” is the real problem here…
Way to wrap Kate’s knuckles about an utterly peripheral thing. Bravo. WWTSHD?
Why are you being disobedient by simply not singing anymore? You have good constructive criticism of musical worship, but these must be supported by your own sacrificial worship. We must lead by example, and worship is about Jesus, not our ability to connect with the format.
JD Just wow JD and just how old are you ? We were in a First Baptist church once upon a time that stopped singing hymns even though one whole side of the service was filled with little grey heads- how do you think that decision made those seniors feel? So you want to just toss those faithful folks out or tell them “tough-deal with it?” You are being very short sighted my friend and I will tell you this much-“I would hate to be the man that made the decision to stop teaching our youth and young adults the old wonderful hymns.” Maybe you should look in the mirror.
So glad we sang hymns when I was growing up. They bring joy to me today. The church has turned into an entertainment center instead of worship.
After reading most of the comments it saddens my heart. I too was one who poo pooed the music. I’m 60 and was raised with music that some of you are speaking of. But God spoke to my heart 13 years ago and what I got from Him was “just worship Me” “don’t think about why you don’t like it come before Me with a humbled heart and you WILL be blessed”. To those who stopped going then pray and find a new place. Our songs are very loud but I tell you I can not stop moving and lifting my hands in praise. The words we have are very scriptural and heart changing. This Sunday go with joy in your heart and He will be there and you will feel His presence. Leave your self pride at home and maybe if you sing others will too.
God Bless
I have some issues with this article and with a few of the comments. I don’t want to read every comment so I’ll just throw my opinion out there and you can agree or disagree.
We worship because He is worthy to be worshipped. Not because we like the beat. It’s not about the music, it’s not about how cleverly written the lyrics are. It’s not to make you feel better and give you a spiritual high. We worship because He’s worthy to be worthy to be worshipped.
If someone else is effecting the worship coming from you to the Lord, you have a problem. If you can’t worship because the music is too new or too old or too polished and professional or to garage band for your taste… it’s a problem. You need to remember why you’re there in the first place.
I believe meeting together as a group for corporate worship is what holds churches together. The sermons are there to encourage you through your day to day life. But, when you walk in to a worship service, you should already have a heart ready to worship. It should be a continuation of your personal adoration to Jesus in your every day life. A worship leader is not there to magically bring everyone into harmony and good feelings. They are mostly there to direct a song… keep everyone in time and singing the same verse. Of course, an annointed worship leader will first need to be a worshipper. If they are not worshipping, it might be hard to follow them in worship. But…. your attitude is yours. If you bring a bad attitude to a worship service, it’s nobody’s responsibility but yours. My suggestion is to give to the Lord. I have on many occasions entered a service with a million things on my mind. Sometimes remembering something someone said last week that I took offense at. How am I supposed to worship with all that going on in my head? Give it to the Lord. Repent for bad attitudes and being offended. Repent for dishonoring the ministers at the church by complaining about their song choices…. and love on Jesus because He deserves to be.
All the complaints I’ve read in these comments and even in the artivle it’s self look more like a blockage and offense between someone’s heart and WHO they’re supposed to be worshipping than a legitimate complaint about what music is being played and how loud it is.
Worship is our sacrifice to Him who is worthy we don’t attend church as consumers but as worshippers of the one who loves us and has saved us. Worship is not solely to do with the style or feel of the music but is an offering from our very sole. If we don’t feel.joy when focusing on and worshiping our creator King of Kings who is also our loving father, there is as much to question about our attitude and action in participative worship. You wouldn’t go to a wedding with the intention of asking how to honour/bless the bride and groom only to make them buy their own gift. The is much to question in our own heart if this is the case. HE IS WORTHY TO BE PRAISED no matter what he is a Holy awesome God who deserves our all. So we lift him high in what ever capacity we have.
I think you are right and it is time for a change!
I disagree with what is being said here. I hear the thoughts from this article and also am hearing your thoughts. There are so many people that have views and opinions. That’s what makes everyone different. Lately I have been hearing people rant and rave about today’s church in general. How many people that go to Church actually volunteer and help their church? How many people attend their respective church more than once a week, every other week, or come only when they teach or sing on a team? I believe most of the problems we have are solutions. We tend to get so many people’s comments and negative attitudes about a worship service and how they miss this song style, style of preaching, brand of toilet paper, color of paint on the wall, weeds growing…. You name it, there has been something said about it. What there is a lack of is people coming regularly to services, people loving their church and the people who attend it, and are needing people to volunteer their expertise and getting their hands dirty by helping said issues that arise. I personally would love to see more help at my Church. We have many voices but few laborers.
I grew up with hymns and contemporary songs. My dad was a worship leader and he was very good at it. He lived worship outside of the church building. I remember my dad always practicing and wanting more. I remember attending worship practice and people showed up on time, had great attitudes, and were prepared. I can remember people wanting to be there. Wanting to spend time to practice late into the night and even getting up early on Sunday mornings. There was no guilt or drama but a sincere want. It’s rare nowadays.
I see it different in Worship teams now in many different churches. People come late, leave early, are preoccupied with so much to do. Those on teams are not wanting to practice at home or at church, not prepared and don’t have the greatest of attitudes. As a leader myself, I find it hard because peoples lives have changed. They don’t have the time, the passion, or drive anymore. This isn’t true with everyone.
This last Wednesday at my Church I got the privelage to lead worship and also speak. The singing from the seats was so loud and heartfelt. We sung contemporary songs that were so grounded in scripture. We sung a contemporary song that had part of a hymn in it. As I looked at those who came to Church I noticed more of the younger crowd singing than older, even when the hymn came up. When we simply played chords and flowed with just the music I noticed it was the younger crowd still worshiping. I remember even encouraging everyone at that time to worship God with their own words. Again, it was the younger crowd that entered in.
I am asked every week by an older man if we are doing any golden oldies. When we do, he sings. When we play anything else why can’t he sing.
We have gotten to the point of we need to bring these songs or hymns back and people would fill the pews again. We need to turn it down or off and people would enter in. We need to do this or that, yet those saying it never enter in themselves.
We can’t bring back the glory days, or revival nights of past. I don’t need loud music, lights, drums to worship but it does create an atmosphere. When you listen to contemporary music or hymns on the radio or on cds there is usually a band playing. Don’t knock the band.
I minister at a church were it’s majority volunteer. What do you get with volunteers…. Pitch issues, wrong notes played, mistakes but in return they are volunteering their time, resources.
At my Church we have a list of songs that we choose from called the seasons 30. Before this there really wasn’t much of response to worship. Let alone people singing. After this was implemented, we noticed people singing more. People started recognizing the songs and became more comfortable singing. Which ultimately makes it more heartfelt when knowing what your singing. I’m encouraged more and more watching people now going from just standing to now singing and the occasional arms raised.
I love hymns, I love contemporary songs. I love loud passionate worship, I love soft passionate worship. The key to this whole debate is where is your heart? You have a heart for worship or a heart for songs. No matter where you go you will find something wrong. Come with a great attitude and make a joyful noise. Get involved in your church, and love those and help encourage.
It saddens me that there are so many comments on such a trivial matter. It saddens me when we are more concerned with commenting on music styles/tastes/singing in the church, than we are about fulfilling the great commission.
Shorter Thom: “I don’t participate in my church’s worship experience and it’s my church’s fault.”
And the comments… Sigh…
The identification of “what’s right” by measuring things against “what I like” is a level of egocentricism that makes for quite a judgmental mindset. Hymnals, drums, contemporary, “traditional,” “How Great Thought Art,” Crowder, Hillsong, etc… Was it Paul who wrote to the Christians in Corinth about the virtuous superiority of 19th century worship style? I forget.
The responsibility to worship lies with each and every person alone. (BTW: “worship” isn’t a synonym for “singing.”) If you can’t bring yourself to participate in worship without hymnals or when a band with actual talent is giving it as an offering to God by playing the latest Chris Tomlin chart topper, then look inside yourself… or Google yourself some other church options. But for all that is sacred, don’t sit there and judge those performing on stage, those not participating around you, and anyone anywhere who suffers the sin of having different tastes than you. Focus on yourself (Matt. 7:1-5) even as you remember that it isn’t about YOU (Matt. 16:24-25). What a wonderful paradox following Jesus is.
And for those who think Paul meant “emotions” when he wrote “sight” in 2 Cor. 5:7 (wow…), it might be worth recalling what God says about himself — He is LOVE — and what Jesus said is our highest obligations: to love God and worship his love, and to live others with God’s love. Emotions aren’t the enemy…
JD really? If you want your church to die out stop preaching Gods word. Having bums on seats because they love the music is not what the church is about. Linking catering to old people to the church dying out shows your own lack of understanding of what community and church family is about. Young , old, saved, not saved, sad, happy are all important and welcome in the church. The church is clearly warned about partiality whether that means partiality in age, wealth, ability etc.
The article is interesting. You don’t need to read music to be able to sing along. Anyone with an ipod knows that. I do think in SOME churches the music is not about everyone participating. But the article also removes each persons responsibility to speak to their leadership about the church they are in. You don’t say anything nothing changes. You accept the behaviour you are silent about.
Robert are you worried about being able to sing to the Lord or be perfect? As a musician why do you need written music to follow a tune? If you are driven by the need to be perfect you are missing the point of worship. Delight in the words the music, the coming together with other christians, there is much more to church than the songs. Many sing, I sing, you choose not to and you choose not to for many reasons. I hope you find your answers in Christ and his gospel not in music provided on Sundays.
I took the liberty to partially imitate Thom Schultz”s words in “Why They Don’t Sin on Sunday Anymore,” because I felt that it missed the mark. Except for the last two, the paragraphs below follow those of the article……
As I looked around the church, I noticed that the majority either were not singing, or simply mumbled the words to the songs. Most of those who were singing were hardly moving their lips. The only voices I actually heard were those of a few members of the congregation and the music minister, who was leading the congregational singing.
That’s been the case for as long as I can remember, in every traditional church of which I’ve been a part. What is supposed to be congregational singing has usually been congregational mumbling.
When the music minister strides to his place behind the pulpit and beckons everyone to “stand together as we worship the Lord,” the people compliantly obey, but then they turn into semi-animated spiritual zombies.
What’s behind this phenomenon? Why do people no longer sing out with passion? I suspect there are a number of factors involved.
Low expectation. For years on end, the church has constructed its “worship” as a framework to introduce the same pastoral prayer that nearly everyone has memorized because of its sameness, and the message, which is usually a series of variations on recurring themes at best, and unchallenging at worst. Everyone expects “worship” to consist, at best, of two or three verses of two or three hymns, which herald a “message” that lasts a maximum of twenty minutes (heaven help the pastor who runs over his time limit!).
Lack of concern for excellence. Because low expectations have become the norm, and because suggestions from congregants for greater variety have fallen on deaf leadership ears, the people in the pews know that nothing will change, so they file in, sit (or stand) still, are quiet, don’t question anything, and don’t contribute with their voices.
Blare. (There is nothing to add here, since in the majority of traditional churches, there is no blare. There is only the organ, and sometimes a piano. And if the church is really modern, there might even be a guitar. None of these things is wrong, of course. I love the piano and organ. I grew up with them. But I’ve also heard people say that the reason they don’t sing is because they know they can’t carry a tune in a bucket, and low-volume worship isn’t loud enough to mask their voices.)
Music Choice. Sometimes people refrain from singing because the songs are hard to sing (keyed too high or too low), or just plain unscriptural. The songs may be part of the church’s tradition, but if the doctrine included in some of the songs is contrary to scripture, people often won’t sing. At the same time, traditional churches have songs that are just as cheesy and lame as those found in progressive churches, so that stone shouldn’t even be picked up, let alone thrown. Some complain that worship leaders in progressive churches choose songs that thematically tie into the day’s sermon topic. Guess what! So do ministers of music in traditional churches, because many pastors coordinate the worship and choral music to complement their messages, too. If the songs in either setting are unsingable, that’s a problem for the pastor to address and correct with the worship leader.
I admit it. I’ve joined the majority – the majority of church-goers who have had enough of dirge-like singing that passes in many places for “worship.” I’m seventy years old, and I’m in a church now where I’m singing more (and louder) than I’ve ever sung before, even with my unprofessional voice. I haven’t forgotten the heritage of the hymnal; but I’m no longer held in bondage to passionless songs written (with passion at the time) two and three hundred years ago. I’ve embraced the new arrangements of old hymns and rejoice in the new life that has been breathed into them by modern psalmists who’ve learned that God isn’t stuck in the past.
Finally, it might be good to remember that the hymns that so many love so much today were once rejected and railed against, too. Those hymns we’ve been singing for so long were once considered radical and cutting-edge, because they pushed the musical envelope and defied tradition, and they were just as upsetting to many church-goers then as modern worship music is to many church-goers today. So, if you’ve stopped singing, that means you’re more concerned with outward appearances, and you need a heart change. The Lord is worth your worship regardless of what the worship team is doing.
One last thing. It would be interesting to know how many church-goers who object to modern worship music continue to embrace (and participate in) the music of various rock bands over the last fifty years or so. I wonder how many lovers of the Grateful Dead, KISS, Lisa Lisa, Madonna, the Black Eyed Peas, and Eminem complain that the music of those “artists” keeps changing. The ungodly musicians of the world know very well that if they want to continue their careers, they have to come up with new songs and new sounds on a continuing basis. If they don’t, they lose their followers, their popularity and their income. If we can accept, and passionately participate in, the ungodly music of the world, and if we readily expect worldly music to “change with the times,” what makes us think the music of the church should never change? If that were God’s intention, we wouldn’t have hymnals at all; we’d still be “singing” the monastic chants of the fifth century AD.
Everybody who commented here are only focused on music, as THE worships to God. No, it is A worship. You can sing any way you want, that doesn’t mean you are right with God as true worshipper. ” True worshipper loves God.The Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus said. “The one who loves Me is the one who obey”.( John 14;15)( John 14;21) Are you a true worshipper? Ask your self!
I could not disagree more with this article. Singing to Jesus has NOTHING to do with the type of music, quality of music, lights, or anything other than YOUR HEART!
When I realize how broken I am and how Good He is, my only reasonable response is to Praise Him! Yes, I have styles and quality of worship that I “prefer”, but that does not keep me from seeing Jesus through all types of worship. When our hearts are right with Jesus, nothing else matters, we cry out to Him in worship….Period.
Praise the LORD! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heaven! Praise him for his mighty works; praise his unequaled greatness! Praise him with a blast of the ram’s horn; praise him with the lyre and harp! Praise him with the tambourine and dancing; praise him with strings and flutes! Praise him with a clash of cymbals; praise him with loud clanging cymbals. Let everything that breathes sing praises to the LORD! Praise the LORD! (Psalms 150:1-6 NLT)
As a Catholic who converted from the Presbyterian church in which I was raised (for reasons other than musical choices!), I’ve increasingly appreciated the liturgical music traditions of the Catholic church, and specifically the Eastern Catholic (Melkite) church of which I am a member. There are, of course, some parishes which look more modern-protestant in regard to their music. But the true tradition of the church involves somewhat simple hymns, antiphons, propers, etc. which follow the liturgical year and teach the faithful (in verses mostly straight from sacred scripture) about the various feast days we celebrate.
I cannot sight read music, and very few of these tunes were familiar to me before my conversion. But their simple and repetitive nature make them easy to pick up. I just love leaving Mass, Vespers, and other liturgies with little bits of the psalms stuck in my head. Most of the notes are well within ranges that the average person can sing, probably because these songs form the chants central to monastic life, which does not have as a requisite a fantastic singing voice. I’m not exaggerating when I say that EVERYONE at my parish–from the frail grandparents to the little two year old who basically just shouts–sings. And we have no microphones, no sound system, no musical instruments.
I don’t mean to start a Catholic vs Protestant debate (that was long settled ago for me, and there are plenty of conversion accounts out there for people to read), but it’s too bad the denominations who have split from the Catholic church have lost touch with these treasures of our Christian faith. Here, for instance, is a free version of simple English propers — ancient hymns drawn from the scriptures which follow the liturgical year: http://musicasacra.com/additional-publications/sep/
And here are some of the same things we sing in the Eastern Rite of the Catholic church, specifically for the days around Easter: https://melkite.org/resurrectional-troparia
Singing and worship at church, we are doing this to God and it is preparing us to receive the Word that will be preached. So whether it is hymns or contemporary music it is doing it unto God. It
I went to a church where the music was loud, the singers were super professional, and it was definitely set up for those on stage to perform, but I always sang even if I didn’t know the song because the work was put in to the worship service. It was everyone involved putting everything they had into it.
However, after moving away from that church I haven’t sang in a church since because they are still playing music from 2001, when I was saved, and prior. There’s no sense of putting in extra effort to find new, engaging music. The music is no longer engaging and so people are no longer compelled to sing.
There has to be more to it. I go to an episcopal church that does not have the band or worship leader or singers with microphones and yet I have noticed that most people (especially the men) do not sing.
First thing that struck me about the article was “stage”. Not sure I understand why a Church needs a “stage”. A stage implies performers and audience… audiences don’t sing. To me, it isn’t about professional expectations or music choice or loudness, it’s about making the Church God’s house with guests / participants, not a stage with performers and an audience.
How would you describe an environment that evokes your real heartfelt vocal participation?
Well, Ashleigh, I’d begin with addressing the four factors I mentioned in the article.
While I appreciate and respect your thoughts on this subject, I must speak from the other perspective, from those who plan the services.
Not singing may have something to do with the factors mentioned above, but it is above all an individual heart issue. If a congregant’s heart is not in the humble posture of worshipping our King and glorifying His name, then singing words is just that…singing words.
I believe there is a fine line between a “professional” presentation and an “excellent” one. Excellence is commanded in the Bible, to be applied to ALL we do. A service that is poor in preparation and quality is just as distracting as a “concert” or “performance” environment. Should those the Lord has blessed with musical abilities not use those gifts for His glory, because others might feel it’s a performance and be “righteously offended?” Again, it goes back the heart…which applies to the worship leaders themselves, who should be displaying true worship of their Savior and as an example for others to follow. I agree, however, that ego and pride and arrogance from a worship leader interferes and distracts congregants and we must strive against this attitude.
We cannot blame the church staff and worship leader completely for the lack of singing from our congregations. Each one must examine his own heart, those on the stage included, and truly worship God for Who He is, whether singing or silent, hands raised or in our pockets, or whatever the Lord leads us in. Only God knows who is truly worshipping, no matter how it may appear to our human eyes and comprehension.
Matthew 6:6-8New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
I know this is speaking about prayer, but in a very real way, worshipping is a form of prayer to God.
Maybe people aren’t singing because some creepy person is watching them, instead of minding his own business and worshipping.
And anyone waiting for an ideal environment to evoke their heartfelt participation will be waiting a long time. Environments don’t evoke true worship. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. He may choose to use environments which are fully surrendered to Him, but He can do it no matter what the environment. Perhaps we should focus more on the One who is worthy of our worship, rather than the method.
The whole “worship team” phenomena is the cause of the silent congregations. But where in the NT do we find such a thing? Congregational singing was part of the Reformation because before that the RC church had choirs and the people were silent. Is history repeating itself? Also in the Old Covenant they had Levitical choirs with trained musicians but that was all put away at the death of Christ. Why are we resurrecting it. I have written more fully on this elsewhere asking if the worship teams are the new Levites. If any are interested here’s the link to the post http://www.wordsofthislife.ca/2012/03/back-to-future-are-worship-teams-new.html
i agree with these’Holy Soup’ statements. The showmanship and volume of “worship” teams in Churches are like singing with the Beatles: who wants to hear my voice messing up their professional sound and how can I get loud enough to be heard without a mic?
Today’s ‘stage ready’ high volume contemporary worship music leaders blame the lay people for not worshipping with them. Well, maybe these stage ready worship music leaders don’t sing with the lay people either by not singing what the lay people love to sing? Does 100% of today’s worship music have to be contemporary repetitious chorus’? Do they have to be so loud? Does it have to be only 1-3 lead singers? Period. Why does the worship music go on for 30-45 mins. I love the Crabb Family, but I don’t listen to them 30-45 mins every single Saturday of every single week.
Why can’t the youth have some contemporary songs, the middle aged some other songs and the elderly some hymnal songs? Will the contemporary worship music leaders share their ‘stage’ with worship leaders who sing other kinds of music?
And I must suspect the accusers when worship music leaders declare the lay congregation is just not Holy enough and won’t worship with them. If IF the ‘stars on stage’ are so vain, yes, vain, to think everybody must love their music style, then the music leaders need to start doing some real soul interior searching to answer their own question.
And the pastor of the church needs to do some interior soul searching as well. Some churches are blaming the lay people when they are not compliant, are not obedient, leave because of the music, when it’s the leaders who may be out of step with God.
It must be an easy thing to cast your sin out into the lay people and blame THEM for not worshipping with YOU.
Some of us cannot sing very well and do not want to be embarrassed.
I could not agree with more. That is so true. Directors on worship teams turn the sounds of other músicians to do it all by themselves, so the World can hear how well they Sound. After they take off from work to go to practice faithfully every week, thats What they go thru. Now a days some church es only want profesionales, supposed y singer sin their transa. People that having callings to be in the choices, they close the doors on them. But God Will give them What they deserve
The whole purpose of a worship service is to provide a setting where the congregation, musicians, singers, etc. can enter into worship. You cant do that if you are choosing music no one can sing. As a former music minister for over 25 years, I took this responsibility very serious. I first chose songs that the Holy Spirit laid on my heart. Then I paid attention to the congregation during worship to be sure they were entering into the presence of God. If they weren’t, then I wasn’t doing my “job” so to speak. Worship is not about being the best. It’s about leading people into the presence of God. We need to get over ourselves & put the emphasis back where it belongs…. on God.
KG, I have been a worship leader and I agree with you completely. It is not about the leader but all about God and what He wants for the people. We have to be sensitive to the Holy Ghost and sing what is needed for that particular service.
Thank you for this article, very well written and much needed. We were in a church like that and left after 1 1/2 years, mainly because of this type of ‘music’, if you want to call it that. Way too loud, ‘look at me’ praise singers, esp the leader. They were asked to turn the volume down and was told by the leader to bring earplugs……Are You Serious??? Yes she was, because I was the one who was requesting the volume to be turned down for a visiting friend of mine. We left not long after that happened. You have this nailed down and it Is well worth reading, although it is very sad. We were fortunate to find a church that doesn’t have this problem. Lord, help us to keep You and the visitors in mind when we go to church.
I participate in congregational singing!! Love it! It sets the mood for worship!
All spot-on points, Thom, particularly those on spectatorship and professionalism. I think these factors also play a role in the loss of a deep sense of community in some churches I’ve been part of. I’m in my 20s (JD), and I’ve been saddened by the demise of participatory church music, even in my lifetime. I like hymns for a lot of reasons, but, most practically, because you can teach someone a new song and sing it together if everyone’s reading from the same book. I’ve recently taken up something called shape-note singing (or Sacred Harp singing–Sacred Harp’s the most popular book), which is helping to fill the void of congregational singing in my life. If you haven’t heard of it, check it out. A lot of young people all over the world are singing songs OLDER than many “traditional” hymns (JD), and loving it. What’s more, the spirit of Christian community that accompanies many all-day singings like that is better than in many churches I’ve known where the congregation stares mutely at worship ‘performers’. Sacred Harp feels authentic, not because it’s old–though it is–, but because it’s genuine and participatory and completely heartfelt. And LOUD. 🙂 Check it out at fasola.org. Also, there’s a great documentary called “Awake My Soul: The Story of the Sacred Harp.” Gives me hope that sacred congregational singing isn’t lost forever.
I’ll second Taylor’s recommendation of Sacred Harp/Christian Harmony shape note singing for those of you who really like participatory group singing (and especially if you like giant pot-luck dinners, which are a standard feature of an all-day sing). Here are some recordings from our first annual Piccolo Spoleto singing held in Charleston, SC in 2010
http://audioarchives.blogspot.com/2011/02/fa-so-la-la-means-i-love-you.html
I think JDs point has been misinterpreted! I think what he is trying to say is that congregational worship is slowly dissolving and this is a sad truth!
First, if we really want congregational singing, and if we want to create the sound of the
congregation’s voices together in praise, then
1. The congregation should be able to hear itself, above the band, organ, brass choir, or
whatever is leading.
2. The worship leaders should be able to hear the congregation. If the leaders cannot hear cannot hear the congregation, how can they lead them? A shepherd walking off on
his own, not paying attention to the flock is not a good thing.
Second, the remarkable skills and sounds of good musicians be be offered up separately – allow them time during the offering and before/after the service. They’ve put in lots of time effort, and their good sounds deserve to be heard. The congregation should be allowed to simply listen and enjoy.
By allowing separate musical space for the congregational vs the musical leaders, both are allowed to offer up their best sounds. Attempting to combine them into congregational singing simply frustrates everyone.
This article makes me really sad. Could I offer another ‘reason’ (i.e. excuse) why people don’t sing in church any more? Simply put, many of us as church members (or just attenders) are focused on ourselves rather than worshiping God! The whole act of worshiping or magnifying HIM forces us to take our focus off of ourselves and our selfish musical preferences for just a moment and focus on HIS greatness – which can be communicated through innumerable worship styles, volumes and settings.
We have the whole rest of the week to fire up our iPods or iPhones or CD players, filled with the specific style of music that we enjoy- why can’t we do what’s good for the church on Sunday? And if there’s truly a situation where what’s happening on Sunday isn’t good for the church, you know what the BIBLE says we should do? GO take your issue directly and privately ONLY to the worship leader or pastoral staff about it! (See Matthew 18 for more guidelines on this subject.) Don’t call your friends after church to tear apart the terrible ‘worship’ that went on there that morning. Don’t write posts on Facebook or blogs that tear down the ministry that your worship leader desires to have in your church!
I also think the American church has largely forgotten that having the freedom to worship God is a privilege! I’m sure if the persecuted church from around the world were privileged to come be a part of our worship services, they would sing their hearts out or at least raise their hands in worship, eyes filled with grateful tears, whether they had heard the songs before or not!!
There are several reasons for the body to meet, and only one of them is to sing. We are to build each other up in the most holy faith (Jude 20). We are to exhort, edify and yes, even admonish. We are to support each other, pray for one another. Each one is supposed to bring their gift (preaching, teaching, helps, etc.). It was never intended to be a performance by professionals or a way to segregate off those who don’t like the style. I think the previous comment about giving the musicians a time to offer their talents was on target. But congregational singing should be just that, and aside from some of the megachurches and a few others, it just isn’t anymore.
Just to point out, this is not just phenomenon in contemporary worship. I’ve been to plenty of traditional worship services with hymnals and organs where it seems like I’m the only one in the congregation singing. I’m not sure if there’s an easy answer to this one. But I don’t think it’s just about the music. I think it’s about getting people to understand that worship is an action verb. Worship is about participation, not just showing up.
There’s a simple answer to this present lack of the Holy Spirit and it is: The Lord’s Day… So the children must grow up and eat the meat…No longer sitting in a building doing their little songs and being entertained! For His Glory cloud has moved and He is calling the deep unto the deep, in order for that to happen…All religiousness has to end and His people must thirst for him and hunger for Him to give them fresh revelation of His unveiling!!! Of the sons (daughters) of God!!!!! For until His children realize He abides in You, which is the Temple of God, that He may be made Manifest, and when you get this revelation, then All things spiritual will be understood and comprehended. Jesus said: when you see me, you will see the Father. So also must it be that when we see Jesus in Us then We are one with the Father as He is one with the Father. God is so simple that it confounds the wise. Therefore let us be like little children, believing in Faith and put away childish things. (Our own carnal mind, emotions, will, disbelief, etc.) for if you can see that which you are believing in that is not true Faith. Faith is believing in the unseen. And that means we believe Him for All His Provisions whatever they may be, without losing hope in a better resurrection. For His Life is here in the Living!!! I Thank God for revealing Who He truly Is!!! Pant after Him and He will give understanding of All He has spoken here and heal All that is broken. For He said….Not my Will, but Your Will be Done. Now it is His day and His Will that must be Done!!! Love to All brothers & sisters of Christ.
I read this: I bla bla bla. I bla bla bla. Me me me me me me me. In the Name of Jesus please stop!! He is not glorified by what I read here. Not attending church because of music is an EXCUSE. Satan rejoices when you argue about worship. He also rejoices when you use ANY excuse not to serve in the local church or participate in worshiping our Lord and Savior! Furthermore, Worship is not for you!!! I believe that what’s in your heart will overflow from your mouth! If you love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul then you will be drawn to worship Him in ANY circumstance. It’s Not about a style, it’s about a Savior! Yes, we are drawn closer to God when we truly worship Him and that benefits us. But make sure your focus is on God and not on yourself. God hears what’s in your heart when you sing. God loves the hymnody! God loves praise and worship! God loves anything that draws His children close to Him!!! Now get over yourselves and focus on Him! Use your talents to help usher in the Holy Spirit no matter where you go to church. No matter what songs are chosen for that day. My prayer is that you will ALL seek to honor and glorify God with your magnificent musical talents and abilities. If you will do this, then God will use YOU to further His Kingdom and you WILL be so very blessed!!! And now my fellow musicians, brothers and sisters in Christ, LOVE on each other in spite of your differences!! Learn to appreciate ALL of Gods creation and that includes the creativeness He has put in each of us.
Amazing responses. The assumption that worship and music are synonymous. The first place worship is used in the bible is when Abraham obeys God and takes Isaac up to be the sacrifice. Sounds to me that worship is obedience. There are many ways to demonstrate worship, but obedience is the essence of worship.
Hello. Doug makes some good practical comments. My wife and I are musicians and perform in concert, paid gigs and church music both funded and non funded. We play everything from medieval, ancient and modern through to contemporary and original. The main thing I have noticed over many years is that songs should be “Pitched” for the “Middle voice”‘, this works best and all and sundry can join in. The book; Why Men hate going to Church highlights this if I recall, songs set in keys for mezzo soprano divas. Personally I think there are some great old medieval and ancient hymns; there are also many trite and silly hymns which tend to be a bit Gilbert and Sullivan militaristic Victorian. But then again there are some great “New” style hymns and some pretty dreadfull “Mantra” beat hymns. Basically I like a tune to tell a story; that story should “Move” me in some way and take me with it. I do not bother with all the “Spiritual Airy Fairy” deep and meaningful as I find it all a bit “Precious”. I leave that to the more Penticostal mind set. After all Jolly old Martin Luther loved his pot of ale a good mandolin and a hearty sing along to re-worked pub songs. He had a bit of a mouth on him to; so good on himm, we have a bit in common.
Firstly, the main problem I see here lies in the fact, that “the singing” has been defined in the minds of most people as JUST THAT – ‘singing’, instead of the “WORSHIP”, which it is meant to be. And, if the people aren’t participating, then they need to be schooled in the art. Which, is a Herculean task, given that most “worship leaders” don’t seem to really know the difference themselves.
I am NOT being arrogant, nor ‘Holier than thou’; It is just, that I have participated in worship sessions, which prompted the preacher to say “My sermon isn’t worth half of this experience that we are privileged to be having! So! I’m not even going to preach, we are just going to continue to “worship God”.
If that particular circumstance could never EVER happen in your church, because the “worship” is just never EVER that good; then, I think you seriously need to reconsider whether you truly know what “worship” is, even if you call yourself a “worship leader! You can’t give, what you ain’t got!
No amount, or even quality of ‘singing’, or special performances even comes close to experiencing a mass of people who know the joy of the Lord, and know how to express their gratitude, by ‘worshiping God’ in Spirit and truth.
If you want your congregation to learn how to worship, then I strongly suggest, that you look up a friend of mine named Kent Henry, who lives in St Louis, MO; and, have him come do some ‘worship seminars’, both with your musicians, and then with your congregation. It will be well worth the effort!
I LOVED your response. Note that the author referred to the platform as a “stage.” I believe that is a HUGE part of the problem. It’s not supposed to be a “stage.” A stage is where a performance takes place. It is the “platform” or even the “altar” and needs to be viewed as such. The author needs to remember that it’s not about “singing” it’s about “worship.” It has nothing to do with what others around him are doing but what is going on between he, himself, and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. I personally like the music and singing to be loud because I don’t sing well; however, if the worship team is loud, then I feel free to sing my praises and worship loud and strong unto my God without fear of bothering others by my lack of talent. We are directed in Psalm 100:4 to “Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise: be thankful unto Him, and bless His name.” As one who frequently moves into the aisle or the front row to kneel before God during worship because His presence is so strong, I can attest that God REALLY DOES inhabit the praises of His people (as per Psalm 22:3). Since the author, by his own admission, has stopped “singing” then I hope he remembers and reflects on Luke 19:40 “And He answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.” Stones, being inanimate, know that God is worthy of praise. How much more should we, made in His own image and redeemed by His Son’s blood, never stop praising our God.
You have very valid points as to why no one sings anymore and I agree with them. Something you may have left out though, ( and is probably at the heart of it all), is music ministers just not seeking God and following the Holy Spirit in how to lead the people in worship.
I am one of those worship leaders who have seen the effects of leaving out the older generation and leaving the good hymns and praise songs out. God did not call us to cater to a certain group. He called us to help everyone honor God with praise and worship. It’s amazing what just asking the Holy Spirit to guide in song selection does for people.
Sometimes he leads me to choose more hymns, sometimes more worship songs, sometimes both…..and it’s amazing how people respond and sing. It’s because the Holy Spirit knows what is needed for the day.
Now. It isn’t all on the worship leader for people to sing. Some won’t because they don’t like the songs (hymns or praise songs alike), and some….you couldn’t get them to sing if you paid them to do it. But that is strictly between them and God. As long as we’re doing right, God will take care of everyone else.
I see several sides to the issue and none of them individually are the cause. We will respond individually, primarily as a result of what is familiar. I was in youth choir and ensemble at my church when I was in high school and I play drums, but I can barely read music. I play drums for church now and that is my act of worship. I sing (no microphone) when I’m not playing because I’m not coordinated enough to do both, but I sing from familiarity. I love the old hymns because I grew up with them and we sometimes play them with a full band, but they are the same hymns, the same spirit. Many of the newer songs are just as rich theologically, even if not written in SATB arrangements. It is important to remember that our own preference for a style may be defensible, but that does not necessarily make a different style less important to a different group of people. I like the blend personally, and as I get older I long for more of the older hymns. The contemporary songs we sing, however, speak to my personal experience and God’s work and word in me day to day. Both have their place. I think people will sing what’s familiar, so helping them become familiar with the songs, whether hymns or contemporary praise, whether they can read music or not, will in itself encourage singing. But not everyone will be comfortable singing out.
We attend a smal Church of Christ (25) and I can truly attest to the fact that the scriptures proclaiming to sing and make melody in your heart are what God expects us to do . our small congregation can out sing the larger ones with their “praise leaders”.
Some sound systems blast away and many services are set up as “performance” rather than praising or worshiping. Many people, particularly the elderly, can’t read the words on the screens. One church we visited didn’t have the people singing along or anything, it was strictly a “show” for all purposes, there was even a disco ball.
The fact that the word “stage” is used to describe the area formerly known as “the pulpit,” speaks volumes.
by the time I get in there I just want to get off my feet and listen to the beautiful songs
Everyone please take a look at Thom’s original post. His point is about singing. It is not about worship overall. Yes, the congregational gathering involves many kinds of worship, and they are connected.
But the problem for many is that the music and its presentation is so distracting that it negatively affects other components of worship. Starting a quiet Sunday morning by
blasting away with distorted guitars and a show going on up front will, for many, negatively affect the rest of the service.
It’s hard to get past – even if you came to church with a true heart of worship.
The other problem: pop-oriented music, while it may give the leaders fun stuff to do, does not give the congregation the same. If the congregation is not the main part of congregational singing, then something’s wrong.
Hello. Well spotted Doug. Yes the “Original Point” was “Why people do not sing in Church anymore”!! The discussion has gone quite “Airy Fairy” has it not. I pointed out that in my experience as a musician in both secular and sacred the “Key” of the tune must be singable and pitched for the middle voice. I’ve been to various Anglican country churches where the peddle organ player well into past a 100 years old is playing and people are just “Squeaking” out a tortured outdated hymn, which for some odd reason was supposed to re-enforce the subtle nuances of a frightfully boring sermon. Some feel that as long as it is done with a pure heart God is some how glorified. This sort of thinking strikes me as a bit mentally unstable. Personally I would prefer a good old hearty sing-a-long that I can enjoy; I would like to feel good about it as well or if it is too painful and really I do not to be there.
I can give God praise just sitting under the old tree in the back yard enjoying a nice wine with my wife and look across our fields to the mountains beyond. No torture there and we can get out our own guitars and mandolins and do our thing.
You are right on though Doug about the loud “Pre and Post” band jam.
I have visited Penticostal services and you just cannot hear your self think let alone greet a friend and have a quick chat.
I think the problem is more that the culture is shifting to one where we are consumers of music rather than makers of music. In the congregations I sing with we sing a capella exclusively – and most of the congregation sings heartily. But I still see a fair number who don’t sing much at all. When I have probed them, it’s because they simply never sing – anywhere. In times past people used to sing all the time; at home, at school, and at worship. I feel very fortunate that my family, particularly through my father, raise us to love to sing and to make our own music. I am raising my family to be the same way. We have a saying in my family attributed to my great grandmother: “If you cain’t sing good; sing LOUD!” Everyone was expected to sing. And everyone sang. No embarrassment, no self consciousness. Just joyous exuberant singing.
Once while I was traveling, I attended a church where the singing was quite nice and everyone participated. One of the young men invited me to attend another small congregation he was working with. And I mean small – about 20-30 people. I said sure – and since he knew I was a good singer, he invited me to lead the singing. The congregation was mostly made up of immigrant women and their children; with a small number of older members thrown in. English was not their main language. When I lead the songs, I have to say, musically it was pretty bad. People were way off pitch; and they couldn’t say all the words right. But it was also one of the most uplifting worship services I’ve ever attended. The faces of everyone there glowed. They held nothing back. I was incredibly moved by the experience. God does not care if we sing in tune outwardly. He cares if we are playing the strings of our heart to Him. Sure it helps to sing in tune. Sure it’s wonderful if we have great melodies and harmonies. But singing from the heart to God and to each other transcends all of that.
Jim, good that you experience the simplicity in singing praises and worship from the truthfulness of our hearts which is our spirit even without music can bring a powerful anointing to us from the Holy Spirit of God. I have experience this many times when I go to the house churches in China. This is because they seek God with all their hearts. With or without music God honors us when we reverence and honor Him first. Most of today modern stage worship lacks the truthfulness of our hearts or the wholeness of our spirit. It is even worst if we are singing merely for performance’s sake to receive glory from people. Worst of all is when our spirit is defiled and corrupt. Beware of the false seducing spirit that are working in those who are disobedience to God. We need to learn from the Holy Spirit to discern them. Do not easily trust what we see but test them. Prove all things. Sad but the fact is many are being deceived in the mega churches. Test and prove everything before we follow their footsteps lest we fall from the true faith taught in the bible. Beware my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Shalom.
Some excellent thoughts and ideas in both the article and in the comments.
Choice of music, and by that I mean music suitable for congregational singing, and preferably a good mix of Songs and Hymns (and Psalms, of course), is essential. Melodies that are well crafted, good theologically sound lyrical content (which does not settle for lowest common denominator Christian jargon) that enables the congregation to engage and take time to enter into the moment of sung worship, is of paramount importance.
Our sung worship needs to be returned to the lips of the people. and we grow in our understanding of the Spiritual life, theology, and our God given gifts through singing together; by taking part. Caught, not taught, as my vicar used to say…though teaching the congregation to arrive with expectant hearts, and helping them to understand the Theology of worship is important too.
Most of us will remember about five minutes of the sermon, yet will probably be able to sing two or three of the songs and hymns (even unfamiliar ones if good compositions) from a worship service.
Hello,
Music and song is a form of “Art” and Poetry. It can be a bit like looking at a Monet work depicting the Water lillies at Giverny in France. I have stood 1 metre away from these same paintings. Up close they appear a riot of colour and brush strokes; the subject matter looks a bit confusing at this distance. However; stand back a few metres and the work is a thing of beauty and quite overwhelming. The point I am trying to make is that with art it is not all about a “Literal” a…..y retentive perspective.
The so called theological presicion being checked out. Music/Praise is to large degree a call from the soul of man and can not always be presented in a series of reformation stanzas. There is a song called “Higher”, just the one word. It is a moving tune a glorious voice and fantastic band; in fact the song moves me more than hearing a fundamentalist theologicall song.
I recall when we were going to perform somewhere one of these desperately “Kill everthing off that moves” Elders wanted to see the song set and check out the words so that he could accept or reject what he considered “right” in his subjective opinion. “Buddy would you like to play the Bouzouki with us????” “Oh I’m not musical… but my old aunt is and … waffle, waffle”. ZZZZZZZZ. “Then butt out!!”
The Arts and the Accoutants mind set will never see eye to eye thank God!!!
Yikes.
Should have thought twice before publishing this post.
Maybe you should pray about things before opening your mouth and announcing that “you’ve stopped singing.”
I’m sure that God is pleased with your decision to stop singing praises to Him because the world bothers you. Good luck trying to explain this to the Creator.
Self-righteous much?
Hello. People have a right to their views and opinions; and also a right to express them. The church has been a virolent criminal organisation in trying to prevent this. Church history shows us this time and again the dreadfully sad and abusive culture of the church.
Thank God the times are a changing. People have things to say and much of the time they are quite useful.
Holier than thou attitudes reveal more about an individuals troubled confused and in many times very angry inner life than they do about God or anyone else.
I am one of the “old people” who have stopped going to church. I’ve gone to church all my life, been a preacher’s wife, and it hurts on Sunday morning that I stay home and watch TV, even tho’ Dr. Stanley is right on. Why did I quit?
1. The music. When a drum was added to the worship team, the whole church vibrated. I complained because it made me dizzy. The next Sunday there were two drums, and I went home with a headache.
2. The preaching was “dumbed down” and superficial. When preaching about life’s problems, and the example of a hairdryer that stopped working was given, I thought “that preacher knows nothing about problems.”
3. When enough complained, and a hymn was added to the repertoire, it was played so slowly that one got the idea it was done so to turn people off to the hymns. Of course it did.
4. 7 words repeated 11 times (7/11 songs) became hypnotic, which is the main reason for them in the first place. Hypnotize the people and they’ll do anything you want them to do, including hate that sloooow hymn you threw in as a sop to Grandpa.
So I quit going. Did anyone care? Not a whit. No one came to visit to see if I was alright, had fallen down the stairs, or other reason why I didn’t go anymore. The old have become invisible. The attitude toward them is “who cares how they feel? They’ll be dead soon anyway.”
Bitter much? Look I love Hymns, I like rock, I like country. Thing is if the church doesn’t change with the times it is dead. You have to realize even the hymns you love have changed to suit the times over the years
But not all change is good. Yes, music has changed with the times. But that change must always be in an effort to improve our worship to God – by God’s standards – not ours. If you look back in church history you will see music changing over the centuries. Some of those changes, I’d argue, were not good. Music started as a congregational activity; then migrated to be performed only by those trained in those arts – and extraordinarily difficult (and beautiful) music was written. But I’m of the opinion that change was NOT good. And as a historical note; the Wesley brothers (John and Charles) shared that opinion; which is why they started writing new hymns set to popular tunes that the members of the congregation new and could sing. An Anglican critic discussed “The Methodists’ profane Manner of Singing.” saying that they even went so far as to sing “popular ballad tunes in church.”
Much of what Joyce Porte mentions speaks very ill of the church she attended. Not that I defend her leaving – but it appears that the church couldn’t care less about her. If such is true; they should be ashamed of themselves. Where we have liberty – and we have much liberty in the exact nature of our music – we have a responsibility to use that liberty to build each other up; not to simply satisfy our own desires. (Romans 14).
Far too often I see attitudes that basically say “suck it up buttercup – get with the times – we don’t care about your old style music”; which in essence is saying: “We don’t care about you”. The same, of course, can be said of a congregation that refuses to accommodate younger people; or people of different cultures.
The answer is to look to God for what He wants first; then think in terms of what would best inspire people to draw closer to God and to build each other up. And that should be done without alienating other people. Put the needs and preferences of others above your own where you have liberty. Things which are counter to God’s desires should never been acceptable. But in areas of liberty, if everyone took a selfless attitude there wouldn’t be near as many problems in the music that I see presented here.
“Put others needs above your own” you say. That is a two way street. It does t mean only younger people need to do it. The oldet generation needs to also. And I’m over 40 saying that. Also, all the talk about what God would want…. Where in the scripture does it say what type of music we should use to worship?
I mean no offense; but did you read what I wrote? I said, among other things: “The same, of course, can be said of a congregation that refuses to accommodate younger people; or people of different cultures.” So in that I agree with you. But I stand by my statement. Putting the interests of others above my own is fundamental; and applies to all Christians in all contexts.
And it’s true; God did not specify the exact nature of music – but does that mean that he has zero principles that should guide our music? Is there nothing inappropriate? Are there no standards at all? How God’s principles should guide our music is largely left as matter of judgment and wisdom to those practicing it. But I do believe that there are those who are ignoring many of God’s principles in the way they use music in worship. And my point is that we should focus FIRST on always upholding God’s principles as they apply in ALL things – and that includes in how we approach music.
James, you misinterpreted what I said. I am not bitter. I accept changes in music, and I am heartened that the 7/11 songs with content that could be sung to any pagan god have changed to ones with more content. There is a lot of good music coming out.
What I have found saddening and objectionable is the extremely loud drums and PA system that gives me a headache. My ears ring for up to 24 hours. God did not intend worship to do that to us. It should be restorative.
Some of the attractive and young people in the worship team have less than savory characters. They try to look holy up front in miniskirts, yet during the week they swear and disrespect others, or even sleep around. Yes, God can forgive them and once they have really experienced what they sing about, can use their talent.
I found it hard to stand for 30 minutes, usually behind a person taller than I, leaving me unable to see the projection of the words on the screen, therefore unable to sing along. I sit down and read my Bible, and I see others doing the same, or watching someone gyrating to the beat with amusement.
In my small town, I know at least 10 older couples who no longer attend church for the above reasons, Or they just go for the sermon part, arriving too late to get a good parking spot.
I don’t think the answer is for the old people to gather together and have their own church where they can insulate themselves against the “young upstarts” taking over. Church should be a blending of all ages and demographics praising the Lord and worshipping together.
This current issue is a reflection of our society today, where youth is exalted and age put out to pasture. Our society as a whole no longer venerates wisdom.
I left before I started seething and becoming bitter about being left behind in the rush to ever-modernize church experience.
Where does it say in scripture what type of music we should use to worship?
Ephesians 5:19
19 Speak out to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise with voices [[a]and instruments] and making melody with all your heart to the Lord, (Amplified)
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
That’s 3 types of songs, not 1. The contemporary choruses fall under spiritual songs.
As to James’ unlovely screed against Joyce: I Tim. 4:12 Let no one despise or think less of you because of your youth, but be an example (pattern) for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, and in purity. (Amplified)
A functioning body of Christ has all age groups active and participating in the service. An audience is not participating. It is right to include younger members – but it is wrong to aim everything toward them. This makes spoiled children. Everything has to be their way.
How dare James address an older woman of the faith in this manner!
Age does not matter to God, right? So regardless if it is an “older woman of the faith” or not…. I mean I’m not a spring chicken.. I’m over 40 myself. The scriptures you mention don’t say,”never use rock and roll, never use electric guitars…” They say praise with your voices and/or instruments. The point is if you don’t like the style of worship music your church uses find another church. Our church has 2 different services: one with newer more contemporary music, in which most everyone participates and sings and a service with older hymns that goes the same way. The church has thrived in this format… Isn’t that the ultimate goal? Growth of the word and the Christian church and outreach?
James, could you reference the scripture which says “Age does not matter to God”?
I Peter 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger and of lesser rank, be subject to the elders (the ministers and spiritual guides of the church)—[giving them due respect and yielding to their counsel]. Clothe (apron) yourselves, all of you, with humility [as the garb of a servant, [a]so that its covering cannot possibly be stripped from you, with freedom from pride and arrogance] toward one another. For God sets Himself against the proud (the insolent, the overbearing, the disdainful, the presumptuous, the boastful)—[and He opposes, frustrates, and defeats them], but gives grace (favor, blessing) to the humble. (Amp.)
Nowhere did I say that guitars shouldn’t be used. But rock and roll is often divisive. Isn’t that the nature of it? Rebellion?
I”The point is if you don’t like the style of worship music your church uses find another church. ” Is getting your preferred style of music worth division? Be careful. Sowing discord among the brethren is listed in Proverbs 6:19 as an abomination to the Lord.
Please read her post again. Her church changed. Thousands of disaffected believers didn’t choose a church that was contemporary, then try to change it… the contemps changed it to suit themselves and anyone who doesn’t like it can go.
I’ve seen it over and over again on this post’s comments, and heard it myself.
Again this is like arguing politics there can never be a winner. The verse from Peter is about respecting the elders of the church and not trying to come in and change their ways. I went along with what the elders and my church decided to do. That verse doesn’t mean God loves young people less. God loves all ages races and people of different religions equally. He wants you to come to him through faith in Jesus Christ and love of your fellow man. That also means respecting the choices of your church. Even if you disagree, you should be able to voice your opinion. And all of you deserve your own opinion. But there is no right and wrong way to worship. As long as you do it with a pure heart
” But rock and roll is often divisive.” Based on these comments it appears that all styles of music are divisive.
You do realize the “amplified” version of the Bible has additions to the text that are not in the original. There is no where in the New Testament where mechanical instruments are authorized in worship.
Eph. 5:19 does not have the added phrase “and instruments…”
Dan Lucarni is a former praise and worship leader in Contemporary Christian Music. He wrote a book called “Why I Left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement.
Here’s the link to an article about him: http://www.christianpost.com/news/former-worship-leader-why-i-left-ccm-movement-39870/
“We used the excuse that we wanted to reach out to the young people,” Lucarini said. “You know what? They didn’t like the music. It was our music. It was classic rock. We just did it for ourselves. That was the conclusion I came to.”
“Let’s be honest about it. It wasn’t to save souls. It was just because we like that kind of music and we’re the rebellious generation so we just basically thought we could do whatever we wanted,” he added.
Oh, also if you still think rock-and-roll music is about rebellion then you’re definitely stuck in another era. No offense but country pop rock even metal can be about anything you want them to be about. There are rock songs that glorify the Lord in our country songs they are the exact opposite. Maybe listen to some things and broaden your horizons
Hello. The thing is people that some of you are taking this all too seriously. Rock music, heavy metal, folk/rock or whatever. Music is music in my opinion and there are many forms, styles and metres in music. Have you ever listened to Jewish Sephardic or middle eastern or Indian music?? All music has a cultural/ethnic style and influence. Classical music has the turbulent through to the pastoral style; consider Beethoven’s Pastoral symphony. Consider a Yingwie Malstoms metal style belting out aversion of Carmena Burona!! Great stuff. The issue of style is a bit irrelevant. To suggest that Jesus likes Victorian Gilbert and Sullivan militaristic hymns is a bit twee really.
This idea of the Worship Pastor is a rather new twist and I would refer you to Bana’s work on this about Pagan Christianity. It all sounds a bit precious and over-blown.
My wife and I are musicians and play everything from Medieval to Contemporary; We even play many of the boring old traditional hymns as well. Some old hymns are great some are complete rubbish and this goes the same for the new styles of hymnal music.
I recall some 45 years ago when we were asked to perform at a Baptist church the elder had a religious fit over a drum fill during our sound rehearsal. “Will that be in the music????” he asked with terror in his eyes. “Yes Buddy it will”. Thank God things have moved on since then.
For me personally all this soul searching and chest beating is a bit boring.
I am a musician and I know that God wants me to enjoy what I do musically and I do not have to be the best but I try to do the my best. I will leave all the other subtle spiritual nuances to the spiritual navel gazers.
I recall a bit of Hoo Haa some years back when I was performing in a Christian up-beat choir. One retentive Pastor had just finished telling the Choir Director that the anointing had left our music when a guest Pastor came up and exploded with praise for our ministry.
The moral of the story is people can be full of hot air and they may have been too lazy to spend years or tight fisted to spend the time and money to study at a conservatorium and become a good musician. Their opinions are fine but do not have much weight I fancy.
My view is that if your Pastor is giving you “Stick” about the music and you are in the middle of stupid church politics over song selections then tell him he can play the stuff himself.
Christian musicians are not “owned” by anyone and we have a say about what we do. I personally have refused to perform some hymns as I considered them trite and quite boring.
If your Pastor and so on is making life hard remember; “He who pays the Piper calls the tune”.
Forget the nonsense about Worship Leaders, Worship Team and this trite about Worship Pastor; We are musicians, that is what we are and be proud of it. Approach your work with vigour and enthusiasm and do your best. The people will be happy, you will be happy and you will realise that you have a bit more about things than you appreciate. Remember no one owns you and enjoy your music because other people surely will.
I disagree so much with this post.
I believe in excellence, and if that means busting out with an electric guitar solo let it be. When there is worship happening and churches go all out with the lights and maybe even radical stage decorations ect… people are using their GOD GIVEN talents to make it amazing. I am more contemporary and personally don’t prefer hyms, but they don’t “bore” me. I will still sing and possibly cry my eyes out to them because I know the power they speak. IT’S ALL ABOUT GOD and His Glory. I read a quote that said something around the lines of “people that are bored in church is because they are not in awe with God”.
Don’t blame the worship team, work on your relationship with God to be in awe, then see how things will change during worship.
Hello. Yes a good electric guitar solo is the way to go. We often do solos with guitars, Mandolins, Lutes and bouzoukis. I call this prophesying on your instrument. Your musical instrument has a voice just as much as the human voice.
People seem to be worried about God a lot. Let us get things clear; God does not really need any thing from us at all. On the other hand we are the needy ones. It reminds me of the “auto de fe” or the burning of non allowed Catholic books in Spain during its inquisition. The insane priests believed poor little Jesus was weeping and warming his cold little hands in heaven as the flames rose upwards.
Christianity really has a lot to offer the world BUT it can sail very close to the “insane” and mentally imbalanced on so many occasions.
As a musician it really is all about me!!
Firstly I need the discipline to go and study and pay the expenses involved with this. Further I need to kit out with good quality instruments which cost an arm and a leg to buy and maintain. Then I need to put continual hours in to each of the various instruments I play in order to deliver a “Saleable” standard. This is no different to a tradesman building a good straight fence or producing a wobbly load of rubbish that you would refuse to pay for.
When I perform I need to know I am doing a good job that gives me a sense of satisfaction in a job well done; this is normal and healthy, and applies to everything in life from your old mum baking her wonderful Xmas cake. Your old mum is pleased that she has done her best and everyone wants more. This is an expression of love and ministry, not a Hubristic expression of a megalomaniac. That can be found thumping the pulpit on Sunday morning.
Remember the Xmas Carol the “Little Drummer Boy”, “I played my best for Him parr ruppa pum pum”.
This is the right attitude; enjoy what we do and do our best for Him. The rest is rather airy fairy introspection which can border of mental instability. Who out there can second guess what God thinks or wants??? Or let alone know Gods mind!!!! this kind of thinking is hubristic.
Yes. Going thru exact same thing!
Hello.
Well good luck and good wishes Tony.
There is a style of Music/Singing that has not been mentioned here and that is “Taize”.
This originated with monks in France; it is best explained as “icons” of musical singing and expression in a sort of “chant” style. Some of the monks came over and we had a chance to sing and play with them.
This is best done in a dimmed old church using the older styled instruments like lutes and mandolins and so on. This is a more “meditative” style and people find it quite meaningful and reflective.
You see there is a big wide world of Sacred Music and styles out there. The only thing holding us back is our silly prejudice.
Consider the Negros in their suffering and the “Spirituals” they sang as the suffered in slavery. Music and Singing is a gift from God to mankind.
It helps us and heals us and can lighten our burden.
It is not all about a theological a……..y retentive mind set.
I feel less and less like singing too. So many modern songs are meaningless, and not meant for congregational singing. The young people in our church always choose older traditional hymns, but it is some of the older people who come up with the modern ones, thinking that young people would like them better! It all grieves me more than I can say!
I have seen this in some churches. It isnt everywhere. The church I attend, it isnt predominant. It also has two symultanious services, one contemporary and one traditional with the basic same message at each with an integrated education class program.
The missing element here is the spiritual walk of the congregant. Although, the point made is valid in great part, many churches are entertaining people, not worshiping GOD.
I personally hate the new music that the” worship leaders” force on us that usually consist of 2-5 lines repeated over and over and over and over, and really miss the days when everyone had the opportunity to participate singing the beautiful old hymns that are still so very loved today by young and old.Bet you’ve never heard one of those new songs at a funeral, andI know why, we really need to feel God’s presence especially at those times people want to hear about God’s amazing grace and the blood that washes whiter than snow, the old rugged cross, etc..we want to worship God from our hearts not because someone’s on the stage hypnotically”singing”we will praise the Lord, we will praise the Lord, we will praise the Lord over and over until you feel like beating your head against the pew in front of you, hey! Maybe that’s why they tell us to stand!
Someone mentioned singing in harmony. The world today wants Unity, not Harmony, not just in worship but in all things. IMHO
Also, most churches have a few songs, break for announcements, then sing one or two more. Rather than focusing on God they focus on agenda and time allotted. We do worship last at my church and no interruptions. It gives us the ability to sing as long as we want and just focus on God
I’m a bass player at my atheist humanist church. The congregation is mostly old folks who lived their youth during the 60s, so the music we play is a lot of classic rock (Beetles, Donovan, Jefferson Airoplane and Mommas and Papas tunes are faves amongst the congregation.) This music is before my time but it sounds kind of cool. I’m the youngest member in my church band. The rest of the band is a group of cool old guys in their 40s and one guitarist is 71! The congregation sings with gusto and we play loud;)
Hello.
Well I think Donovan was one of the greatest folk writers. I love his music have all his song books and I think it is time to brush up on “Now begins another Spring”; quite appropriate for our area of the world.
Join the Church of Christ congregation abd there my brother, you shall see some singing! More singing thab staring! 🙂
Worship is not just about the sunday singing. Its about how you live all the other days of your week. The heart of this matter is a matter of our own hearts.
I feel like I am at a band concert with the new music. What happened to hymns?
I agree! I love the new Christian contemporary music of today. My non-denominational church was great. The music would not allow you to sit quietly. It was a joyful praise and beckoned you to sing at the top of your lungs. After moving, the church that we are “attending” is just as you described! Ho-hum! Oh how I miss great worship music. ( 3,000 members and growing quickly as opposed to 250….wonder why)
“I long for an environment…”
This. This is the problem. You are alive. God is good. What more should you need.
Worship Him. Worship Him in the morning. Worship Him at night. Worship when the hymn is too slow, when the contemporary song is too fast. When the instruments are too loud, the singers are off key. When everyone else is participating, when it’s only you.
If worship is in your heart the environment won’t matter. If the environment matters worship is not in your heart.
According to many entries in this discussion, we should stop being so self-centered,
and instead get our hearts right, stop complaining about the musical style, and just
worship with all our energy. No matter what the musical style.
OK, what will you do if your church and your neighborhood gets a huge influx of
people who love polka? Your church leadership desperately wants to attract these
people, so they switch worship to a polka format. Tubas and accordions and lederhosen,
oom paa, oom paa week after week, and up front, guys with beer bellies leading the thing.
No more electric guitar solos, no more cool string pads.
What’s your reaction?
It’s a fair question, because it’s analogous to what happened when pop/rock
music and sensibilities replaced traditional worship music. Culture shock and
a sense of loss, even for those for those who’s hearts ARE in the right place.
Wow, Doug. You expressed it very well. I’ve been trying to frame a response in my own mind that would give such an example.
When someone has the upper hand, it’s really easy for them to believe that their way is the only way and that there’s something spiritually wrong with anyone who disagrees.
After reading most of the comments on this blog post, it is crystal clear that this is a very divisive subject in the body of Christ.
I’m not saying that CCM is sinful or wrong, but it has become a ‘take no prisoners’ situation. Our way or the highway.
There are many, many Christians in communities all over America who are being shamed, marginalized, ignored and/or rejected over their preference for more traditional music. And there are fewer and fewer churches for them to go to.
If polka music, complete with tubas, accordions, and lederhosen helps just one sinner find new life in Christ Jesus, then I say, “Guten Appetit!” Which is German for “Enjoy!” if the website on which I found it is to be believed.
Now, as to Carla’s point: show me one church goer who has been shamed, marginalized, rejected, or ignored because of a preference for traditional worship, and I’ll show you one who has experienced the same thing because of a preference for contemporary worship. Here are just a few examples from comments on this very page:
“I feel like I am at a band concert with the new music. What happened to hymns?”
“All eyes were on the singers on the worship team, like at a Broadway show.”
“Another suggestion, turn the lights back on and quit making it a Rock Concert.”
Talk about marginalization. There is no scriptural basis for condemning contemporary worship — zip, zero, nada (the last one is Hebrew, I think) — so the last refuge of the hymn-singing soldiers is to call into question the motives of the worshipers and worship leaders.
Now, if the ONLY way for you to be led into the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ and bestow upon Him the adoration He deserves is with Rock of Ages, sung by a choir, accompanied by a piano and/or organ, then I’m sorry my love of Chris Tomlin, Paul Baloche, and Jeremy Riddle isn’t your cup of tea. I pray you find a church that meets that need.
But MY church is gonna exalt the name of the Most High God with some guitars and some drums. We are going to make a joyful noise and it’s gonna be loud. We are gonna turn it up to eleven (that’s a Spinal Tap reference). We are gonna do all this because that’s how the Holy Spirit is leading us to do it.
If that looks and sounds like a concert or a Broadway show to you, I’m truly sorry you feel that way. I’m not suggesting you are less than a true child of God for feeling that way, I’m not suggesting our worship is the only one that brings joy to the face of the Father, and I’m certainly not suggesting that traditional worship reminds me of a funeral and some of those hymns make me want to run home, cover all the mirrors, put on sackcloths and sit amongst ashes.
My point is, I don’t want any strife between contemporary worshipers and traditional worships, nor between our herdsmen and your herdsmen. You worship as you feel you are led to worship. But the very second you start questioning how I’m led to worship, I’m going to respond.
Scott, this is another Scotty, who is old fashioned.
I realize you love your contemporary worship. That’s what you prefer.
I am one of the people that cherishes the old hymns and Southern Gospel singing, maybe a little classic country and bluegrass style gospel music.
BUT HERE IS MY POINT, AS WELL AS A LOT OF OTHERS POINT OR FEELINGS ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON. WHY DOES THE CONTEMPORARY PEOPLE TELL THE HYMN LOVERS TO MOVE ON WHEN THE HYMN LOVERS WERE ALREADY AT THE CHURCH? ANSWER ME WHY HAVE WE GOT TO MOVE ON?
yOU LOSE THE ARGUMENT THAT THE CHURCH WILL DIE OUT. SO BE IT IF OUR CHURCH DIES BECAUSE PEOPLE DO WANT TO COME, BUT i BELIEVE THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN. i KNOW A LOT OF CONTEMPORARY CHURCHES THE CROWDS HAVE FALLEN OFF AND THEY HAVE A FACILITY THAT WILL SEAT MAYBE A THOUSAND PEOPLE HAVING AN ATTENDANCE OF 100 OR 200 HUNDRED PEOPLE AND THEY ARE STRUGGLING TO KEEP IT OPEN.
MY SUGGESTION IS FOR THE NEWER PEOPLE COMING INTO A CHURCH, AND TRYING TO DRASTICALLY CHANGE A CHURCH.
YOU AND YOUR CONGREGATION BUILD A NEW BUILDING THE WAY SO MANY OF US HAVE, INSTEAD OF STEALING OUR CHURCH FROM US, WHICH I CALL STEALING. OR EXTORTION.
Now if I decide to go to one of those contemporary churches because I like the preacher preaching. I won’t try to change the order of the worship services. If I can’t stand it I will not attend..
Let me share something with you from a previous article.
Is this a Christ like spirit you are showing? We stay with our churches because we love the people and they feel like family.
But should you not be following peace and holiness with all men (Hebr.14:12)
Are you preferring your fellow saints by telling them to leave? Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Are you following the example of Paul? If you are a worship or part of a worship team you are a minister? 1 Corinthians 9:18-23
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Is it possible you are becoming judgemental in your attitude with the following statement. “or maybe deal with the jaded view of the church you clearly have in your heart.”
Just something for you to think about
It is not my position that traditional worshipers have to submit to the will of contemporary worshipers. Nor is it my position that contemporary worshipers have to submit to the will of traditional worshipers.
If the Holy Spirit leads a church to shift towards contemporary worship, then, and only then, should the “hymn lovers” have to “move on.” And the reverse is true as well. If the Holy Spirit leads a church to shift towards traditional worship and away from contemporary worship, CCM lovers need to get with the program or move on.
I’ve been in churches with choirs and hymnals that were packed like sardines for worship and the praise was lifted so high that the building couldn’t contain it. I am currently a member of a church with an 8:30 contemporary service that out draws the 11:00 traditional service by nearly four to one. There are people in their 80s, singing Casting Crowns and NEEDTOBREATHE songs so loud and so joyful I’m afraid they will break a hip (I kid the old folks; why? because they are old and probably can’t hear me — that’s a Don RIckles reference) alongside teenagers and 20somethings.
You know what both of those examples have in common? The church was obedient to the leadership of the Holy Spirit and is reaping the blessings because of it. I haven’t read all of your comments on this page, so I don’t include you in this: by constantly and consistently referring to contemporary worship as a “show” and “just entertainment”, as so many have done here, the implication is that its not true worship, that it’s not led by the Holy Spirit. I take extreme exception to that.
Now I did read every word of your comment to which I am now responding. And here’s something for you to think about: how Christ-like are you being when you use such incendiary language as “stealing” and “extortion” in describing brothers and sisters in Christ? I have no idea what church you attend, but I am certain of this: that church does not “belong” to you, sir. It belongs to the One Who sits at this very moment on the throne of heaven and He is free to do with it as He pleases. If He directs your church to sing songs from Third Day, or from a 19th century hymnal, or chant like the Gregorian monks, you are free to say no, of course. But if you want to be part of a growing, thriving, body of Christ that reaches a world in desperate need of a Savior, I would humbly suggest you say “Not my will, but Thy will be done.”
I appreciate your reply.
I do not own the church, nor do I sit on a church board.
Jesus call the leaders of the church of His day Vipers, Sepulchres.
But you have prove my point. I am 63 years old. I have been attended Assemblies of God and Churches of God all my life. These organizations have been overtaken by the contemporary music.
But I have left and not only me but several other people in my lifetime have left churches and people whom I dearly loved because of the music. I have been a song leader in 3 churches in my lifetime.
The churches that I have left, it was always a minority coming into the church and changing the order.
Now bear in mind, I do not like the sound of contemporary style music. I do sing some of the worship songs, but I sing them with a country style./
I did use some hard words because if you have read this article over the last several weeks you will see over and over it is the ones that are singing the new songs who tell us to go.
If you think it is not Christ lie for me to express my feelings. Let me share some more scriptures..
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Have you thought of what Spirit may be leading you? This music issue has cause confusion and who causes confusion?
Scott there is no church in my immediate area at which I can worship because contemporary has taken it over. I worship at home and also have Bible studies in my home and other people homes, because we have no place to worship.
It wasn’t the preachers preaching or somebody hurting my feelings in my church, why I don’t go to church.
Do you see why I am angry and maybe bitter?
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11811403_1222115387814061_3912624310749251499_n.jpg?oh=4d34c0a9cecb289ee6ddc190bfee28c2&oe=5737B8B3
Thank YOU for proving MY point.
It wasn’t necessary to state you were bitter and angry; that comes through loud and clear in all your posts. I won’t make the same sweeping generalizations about those who prefer traditional worship that you and so many of your brothers and sisters make about those prefer contemporary worship. But of the ones I’ve encountered — and I’ve encountered a lot — the criticisms of contemporary worship are rooted in bitterness and anger, and not in Scripture. The style of worship they have grown up with is being abandoned for something they dislike. You can cut and paste Bible verses, dress it up as moral indignation, or even raise your chin so high it’s pointing to heaven and claim you are fighting to save the church from itself, but it’s still nothing but bitterness and anger.
You keep citing anecdotal evidence about minorities forcing their will upon the majority. I’m not going to believe or disbelieve any of that happened. It does not disprove my original point, which you have ignored in two responses so far (three if you count the artwork, which I will address further): churches that thrive, i.e., that grow, that minister to the communities in which they are located, that share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, thrive because they follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in all areas, including worship. It’s been my experience, which you are free to believe or disbelieve, that a minority is every bit as capable of following the leadership of the Holy Spirit as the majority.
Am I confused about what spirit I am following? I am not, sir. I am crystal clear about what is moving in me when I sing along to Casting Crowns, Third Day, etc. Satan is most definitely the author of confusion and listening to him can also lead to bitterness and anger. See what I did there? Without even knowing you, without even having met you face to face, I implied your problem with contemporary worship came from listening to our adversary. I was being facetious. You, I suspect, were not. I could get angry and bitter about that, but I’m having way too much fun worshiping.
You can post all the quotes you want from all the pastors, writers, and teachers who have been dead for fifty years. What worship SOUNDS like, or LOOKS like, is secondary to the ONE who is being worshiped. I know in my heart that my Lord and Savior smiles in sweet approval when He hears His children praising Him with something that sounds more like the Rolling Stones than Bill Gaither. If that bothers you, if that makes you angry or bitter, then I’m sorry. But not sorry enough to stop,
If I sound passionate about this issue, it’s because I am. I am willing to plant my flag and die on this hill in defense of contemporary worship because it’s what brought me back to church. And I have seen firsthand, with my own two eyes, how its growing churches all over the world. And if that bothers you, if that makes you angry or bitter, then I’m sorry. Just stay at home, keep having your Bible studies, and yelling at those kids with the electric guitars and drums to get off your lawn. And when you get to heaven, don’t stand next to me when we are praising the Lamb. You probably won’t like the songs I use.
I appreciate your comments.
I respect your opinion. I am glad that you are willing to plant your flag.
I am not going into doctrinal points
Yes I know there are thriving churches with contemporary music in them.
Yes I know there are minorities who do know the leading of the Spirit, but they lead not FORCE people to do things.
If we are a dying breed, while we are here, where are we going to fellowship with fellow believers, if we have been driven out.
You say it is our responsibility to start another church. A lot of us may be retired and do have the ability to start another church. Most of us have given a lot of our livelihood to the churches we have attended.
I know we don’t own the church building, but neither does the new people coming in..
There have been many offended with this issue and attitudes from both sides.
Proverbs 18:19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.
Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
The Bible says 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
How willing are we not to offend? You should accept the fact that some or all were offended?
Matthew 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Where are the peacemakers?
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
But to sum it up the churches for the most on both sides of this discussion Jesus is outside wanting to come in, in these last days.
Revelation 3:19-21
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
This will be my last word to you, sir, on this subject. I have certainly enjoyed the back and forth, but I feel we have reached a point where both of us need to move on, because clearly, neither of us is going to change the other’s mind.
I never said you were a dying breed and never said you have a responsibility to start another church. You may have inferred that from my comments, but I never said either of those things and I don’t believe either of those things.
As I have said, and I add parenthetically, over and over and over and over, a believer’s only authority is the word of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Those two things will never conflict with one another, by the way. Now, having said that, if the Holy Spirit directs a body of believers to shift away from traditional worship and towards contemporary worship, you are more than welcome to disagree with that instruction. If others in that body decide to follow that guidance and you do not, you DO NOT get to play the victim and whine that your wishes aren’t being considered. It doesn’t matter if there are a 100 of you whining and five or six listening to the Holy Spirit.
I’m going break it down like a shotgun and make it real simple: if the Holy Spirit is leading and you choose not follow, YOU are the one or ones sowing confusion in the Body of Christ. Cut and paste all the scripture you wish, that fact will not change.
You say you have left three churches in your lifetime over this issue. After the third time, a more introspective person might scratch his or her head and say, “Wait a second. Maybe it’s me!” But perhaps its easier to sit at home in front of a computer screen and create straw men.
I was song leader in all three churches.
The pastors brought in all new worship teams from other churches that were singing contemporary.
I was removed from song leader in all three churches..
Two worship teams said I would have to change my style of singing or I could not be used in the services even as a soloist.
The other team let me stay on as a soloist, but only used me 2 times in 6 months.
All the churches ran from 50 to 60 people in morning worship. They were small churches.
These were Assembly of God churches.
I have attend Baptist churches some. They do ask me to sing. But they do not worship as I was accustom to.
But we are have home church between four families right now and there are visitors that do come.. I play guitar since none of us have a keyboard. I am part of a worship team of three and we sing all the songs whether contemporary, hymns or what just with a southern gospel sound and not sounding like a rock show.
JD – I just went to a Crowder concert and he was singing some old hymns. The average age in the audience was under 25 and they (audience) were singing at the top of their lungs! Contemporary is awesome – hymns are timeless!
While I believe worship teams should do their best to be excellent for God’s Glory. Perhaps the people in the pews have gotten accustomed to being intertained and are looking for something to ” move them” or evoke some kind of emotional experience. However, as lovers of Christ, I believe if we are staying in the Word and spending time with God, our hearts will not need to be encouraged or motivated to sing and worship…. We will come with a desire to worship out of an overflow of love. Even when we don’t feel like it, we will do it be Because it pleases Father God.
Singing — out loud with your physical voice — something happens in the spirit when we “make a joyful noise to the Lord” — There is a signficant shift spiritually. My heart gets a lift. My spirit soars. My mind is changed. The I-can in me grows stronger. That’s why I will sing out loud to the Lord as long as I live — at church (regardless of who joins in), at home, in the car, in the shower —- with my last breath, I will sing!
Hmmm…our church is a college town church, does a mostly contemporary service, but everyone sings like crazy. We run decibel levels up above 90, but the congregation keeps drowning us out. We’re made up of a multigenerational demographic, but probably 30% of our music is very traditional. We do focus groups each year to check how our congregation is able to engage in our worship services, and are we (as those responsible for planning, preparing and leading our corporate worship times) truly enabling our worship life at the church. In these we often note that style preference is VERY secondary to many other factors.
I guess my point is – if people aren’t singing or participating in the corporate worship times at your church, look to leadership, not to style, to solve the issues.
Hmmmmmm…. ok. While I know that there are SOME churches that make the praise and worship a professional act (I’ve been to some), you can’t generalize the statement. Furthermore, I feel, that people should worship no matter if they can be heard. God hears you, and that’s who matters! The enemy is coming in to steal away our worship by telling us these lies! He doesn’t want you to worship because he knows how powerful our worship is in our warfare!! So, you can allow the lies to set in, get an attitude and be a hater and a spectator, or you can praise and worship our daddy God. That’s what we were put on this earth to do. The word says in Luke 19:40 that if we become silent, the rocks will cry out! At the end of the day, you’re the one who decides to be mute.
An Analysis of the Ancient Church Fathers on Instrumental Music
By David VanBrugge
I love this. So true!
I totally agree. I was raised in church that sang the old hymns and loved them. When I moved to Florida I tried to find a church that still sang the old hymns but have not been successful. I want to go to church but I can’t stand the songs. What am I to do?
If your church has a “stage” instead of a platform, they might not be focused on God. If they “perform” instead of worship, they might not be focused on God.
Great article. If you like to sing, just stay away from the stage/performer churches. And the vapid praise choruses (not all new music is bad, but a lot of it is self-focused!).
These comments made me gut-cry. I had no idea this was happening in the body of Christ. God help and place your blood here and cover us with your love Jesus. Restore our lives.
I have to politely disagree here. Worship isn’t about *us.* it’s about HIM. Whether you sing in key, off key, loudly or quietly, it’s about getting in your worship zone with God. How sad our Lord must be to think that because some are unhappy with the type or sound or loudness of the music that they refuse to worship with their voices. I wonder if anyone in the scriptures ever did that because they didn’t like the trumpets. It seems like there would be a deeper problem than the music, honestly. I will worship my Lord and Savior in any way I can because he deserves it and who am I to dictate what is good enough or not good enough?
Those of us who continue to have acappella worship have not experienced this phenomenon.
I attend acappella worship and I sing on the ones I know or the ones that are in the hymnal or the ones that the music as well as the words are projected on the wall. If there are no notes to read I can’t sing along on most of them. Having a praise team singing into microphones doesn’t help me.
“I admit. I’ve joined the majority. I’ve stopped singing. I’m not happy about it. I know I should overcome these barriers and just praise the Lord with my very unprofessional vocalizations. But I long for an environment that evokes my real heartfelt vocal participation.”
– So this guy’s searching for the right “environment” to praise? Until then, he’ll just stand there.
This guy’s a real modern-day Paul and Silas.
Aside from that, he makes some valid points.
I’m sorry for being so late with this, but that comment made me laugh out loud. Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.
I read your page and found it to be true for my church , to those Who’s church songs and participates in praise and worship then this doesn’t apply to your church and your not talking about them ,I found this to be true at my church ,they do not want to participate, they wait for the worship leader to do the worshiping and praising God and we are supposed to do it as a congregation I asked this question on Google and obviously I’m not the only one that is going through this or they wouldn’t be a question to this question , for those that have church participation praise God
Well obviously your going to the wrong church
Our Church has a great worship team and I would say 95%of the congregation sings along sometimes its like a Heavenly Choir with The Holy Spirit leading.I dont know if your Church is in a Spiritual drought and needs a Revival.But I thank God our Church is not like the ones mentioned in this article.
The reason people don’t sing anymore is because, just like the church in Ephesus mentioned in Revalations , we have lost out first love, God. We have become so lost in this world, in its entertainment. We have so many options to occupy our time we have none left to spend in worship of our God. We trade time growing in the knowledge and grace of Christ with movies, TV shows, sports, games and friends instead of spending time reading his Word, talking to Him, growing a relationship with him. This has led to us being far from Him who saved us. Our lack of involvement in corporate worship has little to do with the service and much to do with our relationship with God.
Or perhaps its something deeper… “Today I came across this blog about people people singing less in church gatherings. “Less” seems to be a theme in many churches across our country. Less people attending. Less people giving. Less people evangelizing. Less, less, less….”
http://goodnewsgrace.com/2015/11/07/why-people-dont-sing-on-sunday-anymore/
THAT’S A PRETTY LARGE ONE SIDED OPINION.
MAYBE A VISIT TO “CHURCH OF THE CITY” IN FRANKLIN, TN IS IN ORDER.
A lot of the hymns have been around for a good 100 years or more if you look at the dates on some so everyone knew them for several generations. When Christian contemporary came out, they were new, not everyone knows them. But people can and do learn. The problem is, the praise and worship band people are keeping up on all the new contemporary music and want to continue to bring newer stuff to church. Well people just can’t keep up with every next new top 10 song that comes along. So less people sing because they don’t know the words or the new songs they keep bringing in.
I don’t want to hear from dying churches on how to engage the largest and most unreached generation in Americana history. It doesn’t matter what style of music you use. Old hymns aren’t more spiritual or substantive than modern songs. It doesnt matter how you share the lyrics. Stop pushing your personal preferences as the gospel.
People are tired of the crap in this comment section, millenials especially. They want a meaningful worship time with people authentically worshipping focused on an awe-inspiring creator and savior. That’s all that matters with worship.
Pardon me if it’s hard to identify with “millenials” who think it is perfectly fine to use the word “crap” when speaking about the HOLY!!!!
I love finding ways to bridge the generations. Obviously it is easier to put yourself in a place of worship if the distractions are at a minimum and yes there are numerous things to distract in a worship service. The elders are distracted by the “noise”, the youngins are distracted by the “lack of energy”. Both parties are distracted by the out of sorts noises whether it be the “over loud singer who sings at the top of their lungs rather it fits or not” or the “instrumentalist that is off time or out of tune”. If you are there to find distractions, you will…because that is why you are there. If you are there to worship, you will…because that is why you are there. Smart leadership will constantly bring the question, how can we improve and will welcome suggestions to help guide that discussion. I run all things tech and I am an open door for constructive criticism…constructive criticism doesnt just complain but offers solutions to be chewed on and fleshed out. Hebrews 13:15 tells us to bring a sacrifice of praise. We often want others to sacrifice but never approach worship or service with the heart of sacrifice. Always, without exception. We can only ever control our part. If we all approach worship and service with a heart of sacrifice, we will never be turned away or offended. And when selfish starts to creep in…refocus…sacrifice.
I have to disagree. Though I often have disagreed with how worship services go, I believe it is a spiritual problem. In the Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis touches on people being distracted by surrounding thoughts of congregational members to distract from any spiritual message. Though factors on stage could contribute to this, people are centering their hearts on God. It is not a church problem, it is a heart problem. We cannot go and make excuses for why we do not sing. Singing is not the end all say all for worship. It is our own personal praise to God in whatever we do.
Maybe you’re at the wrong church– you should attend a church where you feel FREE to worship. And they DO EXIST!! I attend one—
A priest once told me that God gave us our singing voices and that we should give them back to him every chance we get.
I agree. I can’t hear. The loud music leaves me with the ache. Each performer plays for himself rather than for the group. CHEESY AND SINGULARLY REPETITIVE are good descriptors. When the word perform is used, it does not promote worship just watching. Imho.
The real reason that people have quit singing, is they have lost the joy of their salvation.
I was raised where we sang fro red back CHURCH HYMNAL. We had a song leader, but people came up on the platform and filled the choir and sang the Glory down. No fancy musical arrangements. We went to camp meetings to learn new songs.. The children didn’t stay home. They had no separate services for children. They had a nursery that you came out of when you started the 1st grade of school and set in the auditorium with your parents. I have heard the old hymns sung hundred of times in my life. I’ve been to some contemporary services in the area and it seems they sang the same old worship choruses over and over. What is the difference? But anyone worship according to New Testament churches. I challenge anyone to study worship in the Bible and see if it is a bunch of theatrics and goings on. Think About.
I suggest you visit a church of Christ. You should be pleased by the congregational singing.
The Point that people are not getting. The annointing has left a lot of the hypo-worship that is being offered, because most of the people have never had the Holy Spirit. That is why you see so much worldliness in the singing and the lives they live and the way they present themselves. YES I SAID WORLDLINESS, which ia not preach in most churches and let alone few examples to pattern ourselves after.
Sorry about your bad luck…my church has a choir that learns the song, has microphones and a teleprompt showing us the words, we stand and our choir director begins with his signals. With no music we begin to sign with harmony! We make the music with our voices and sign praises unto God!!🙏 It’s beatifull
Very true
there’s a little church near me, in the country, that usually has just one instrument playing….either a guitar or a piano. But it’s exactly what’s needed! The pastor encourages the small congregation to sing onto the Lord, doesnt matter if you’re off tune. Its really nice to hear the voices! Sometimes no instruments are played because theres no one to play it that sunday. No worries, we’d sing acapella! When service was at the sister church in town, I would be tempted to cover my ears because the organ was so loud it hurt! my kids did and I didnt scold them.
Perhaps I’m stating the obvious, but perhaps you are attending the wrong churches? We have loud music, some contemporary, some hymns, some old people, some young, and some in between. Our words are on the wall. Some people read music, some don’t. And people SING! Some loudly, some quietly, some dance, some don’t, some in tune, some way out of tune. Because they are there to WORSHIP GOD, not listen to a concert. It’s all about heart attitude people. Maybe you should choose to worship, regardless of your circumstances, the music, the volume, what others are doing around you. Worship is a choice, not a feeling. It’s about God, not you.
Loudness does call a hinderance to some, maybe because of people not wanting to grow deaf because of loud music. There are distractions that cause people not to praise as they should.
Yes I agree, if the church is doing something that you cannot praise Jesus
Have you studied what worship is in the Bible, I will give you it a hint, It is not about singing.
I agree totally.
From a longing in our hearts to worship like we used to, Worship Blast was born. We get together n sing songs from the scriptures that are dear to our hearts n any of the new songs we have been able to learn that have meaning. After meeting every couple of weeks for 2 years, a band was formed called Stones & Bones made up of tremendous musicians who were deemed too old for the new seeker type settings in churches where no one sings or even knows how to worship. We are having a Blast and now go out to minister. We are free from the system. We have been revived by the breath of God. Stones Neh 4: & Bones Ezk 37: _/`
I attend a church on the 4 th Saturday and they have a Gospel Jam, where you can come forward and sing a solo, group or lead the congregation in a hymn.
It is a small church and a 150 pack it out, but it is a blast and we have a good time and the music is not to loud.
There have been as many 10 instruments playing on the platform.
It is a blast. Young and old all participate.
It appears that the climax effect is wearing off. I have a few questions I would like JD to answer if he’s honest. How long can it be sustained before it changes again? What will intrigue them after you are considered too old to be relevant? Do you believe “What you win them with, is what you win them to.” (I heard this the first time back in the ancient, post modern era 1979.)
It has become entertainment . So sad.
I believe this to be false. I have lived in 4 different states and have been to several churches in each state and of all of those churches, which amount to about 12 different churches, only 1 of them found to fit the description you have provided. However, I do find myself sometimes surrounded by people who aren’t so apt to pouring their heart out in worship and I believe, in my opinion, it’s because people in todays society are sad. They are sad in their lives for various reasons and it shows in their lack of praise and body language despite their efforts to disguise Thierry sadness in smiling after or even before service.
Carol: Could ihere sadness be because they have no relationship with the Master Jesus Christ?
At the end of the day it comes down to who we focus the worship on. If we are catering the worship service to the people then we are worshipping the creation instead of the creator. Spirit filled music does not move the flesh, it moves the spirit. How is the music going to move the person’s spirit closer to God if it’s too busy entertaining the flesh. There’s so much compromise going on in the worship services today we tend to forget that it’s not the style of the music that’s important, it’s having a personal relationship with God seven days a week that’s gonna make a difference. Having a relationship with God makes you wanna sing TO God with all your heart/spirit and not with your flesh/body. This is clearly stated in His precious word: Galatians 5:17- “For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.”
Please try to understand that I’m not attacking anyone cause I am a worship leader myself but I’m merely exposing the truth that I was convicted of. God bless you all brothers and sisters.
I grew up singing a mix of hymns and contemporary songs in church, I’m in my early 40’s and can honestly say that I don’t mind a hymn or two.
If you actually look at the words of most of the old hymns you will see that they are literally the Word of God with music.
As someone who spent many years operating sound desks in churches I totally agree with the statement that the music is often too loud and people don’t sing because they cannot hear themselves.
Also there are a select few worship leaders these days who are capable of actually leading people into the presence of God…
The prophetic song of the Lord helps with participation. This is when the praise team bursts into a new song on the spot by inspiration that no one already knew but it is easy to catch on to. Improvisation is creative and creativity is attractive. Often times thesearch prophetic songs start off repetitive and simple because they are meant to be participatory and they develop in real time adding new elements and phrases along the way as the songs are being sung. These songs are interactive as each section feeds upon the responses of the congregation to the revelations and declarations that are being released through the songs. Prophetic songs are dynamic and not static. I don’t think we should have to do away with hymnals, contemporary, or urban expression. All those are good and fine but we should make room for the Holy Spirit to break through whatever cultural expression we began with so that the sounds from heaven can come forth. Those praise sessions are hard to sit still in the midst of. Great dialogue, BTW.
The same argument is given for having different versions. And most versions leave out scriptures when compared to KJV. If you use the KJV prayerfully you can understand. So it is with the old hymns. I believe you can sing any hymn and feel a spirit of praise. You are talking about Worship take a little time and see what worship is in the Bible. Get you a KJV and a Strong’s concordance.
I strongly agree with your view. A majority of very talented musicians think they need perfection in the show to worship and to help untalented individuals get to Gods presence. If we remember the devil was a main worshiper of God who’s arrogance and pride led to his fall. I have personally experienced and seen this trait in many of my colleagues. Like Jesus said to the Samaritan women, there will come a time when people will worship in truth and in spirit. It becomes like a show or a showcase of talents like the secular world. Just my point of view from a repented musician.
I have to disagree. First, this is bringing down those who are called to be a part of worship. They do it to the best of their abilities. And the reason behind the louder volume is because by actual research, people of the congregation become more comfortable if they know no one can hear them due to shyness. Those who do worship pour their heart and soul in it and do their best for God. Now if you take them away from what they are called to do, just to make others feel comfortable, we are doing nothing but compromising. Worshippers on stage are not responsible for the actions of those in the congregation. If those in the congregation actually had a true relationship with God, it wouldn’t matter. True worship leaders preach that too. They also try to encourage the congregation. But as being part of a worship band, it does dishearten us when we do see people just stand there. But we don’t let it affect our worship. If we did that, then we would be letting the devil win and defeat us. The congregation is responsible for their own action. The church is now falling into the issues of the world and try not to offend anyone. If you choose not to praise God, dude, that’s your choice, but I’m not gonna let a rock cry out loud in my place. I’m gonna make a loud, joyful noise, no matter the volume or quality. I’ve been in a church that does let anyone go up on stage. The church as a whole agreed it was a distraction, even to those who truly worship. This is why the church have a professional appearance of worship. I’ve see visitors at this same church come in and see this and actually say “wow, they really don’t care that much if they just let whoever do worship”, then never to be seen again. Now in the church I currently attend, they are very professional about their worship and don’t just let anyone up there. They treasure their worship and prevent distractions. They don’t restrict anyone from worshipping in the congregation. You’re free to do so at the pew. Because, like I said, you are responsible for yourself. We need to start having a backbone in the church again. Those people are up there because they were called by God. Do not take them down because someone feels jealous or not good enough. That’s for that person to work out. This article doesn’t show the perspective of the worship team at all. Both perspectives need to be taken in account.
Joshua: I do agree with you, yes you will have some singers that might not appeal to some when you have everyone participating. The Church traditionally has always had a song leader or choir leader.
From the position I come from is that even if you have people coming up on the platform to participate in the congregational singing voluntarily the Song Leader is still in charge.
I have seen the times while the congregation, group or soloist was singing that the Holy Ghost has moved in and changed the order of service.
It may have been a song by the congregation or some other singer.
It could have been a testimony that somebody shared.
Or it could have been Gift of Tongues and Interpretation.
I’ve seen many times the Pastors of the churches I’ve attended in my life, they have changed there sermons, because of the anointing and the moving of the Holy Ghost.
Joshua: you see I am not a trained worship leader by today’s standards
I have been a Song or choir leader in a few churches. And today if I visit some of theses churches I am still ask to lead a song or two.
I know how to tell what Key a song is written, But I do not know how to read music. I play guitar, Bass guitar and rhythm chord on the piano.
We had a pattern we used in preparing a service. I did not ask the Pastor what their message was. I prayed and the Holy Ghost would guide me. I have called songs off the cuff and I have even called a soloist or group without previous warning. The Holy Ghost never failed me when I obeyed Him.
It ain’t me, It’s about JESUS CHRIST and honouring Him.
But this will work in churches under 200 people.
This probably could not work in MEGACHURCHES because they are too entertainment oriented I believe a lot of talent and ministries are wasted in MEGACHURCHES because people want to entertain. The pastors and people will have to answer to God for not using there gifts, talents and callings.
Sue I feel the very same way I don’t know what has happened to the old church hymns most of the songs they sing I have never even heard of
It’s a shame that you’ve experienced that. Try Bent Tree Bible in Carrollton TX. While the worship and arts team are talented as well as varied, the music is more congregational than performance. While there may be an occasional performance piece, it’s usually used to help illustrate some part of the sermon, or with a specific purpose which may not be achieved otherwise. If we want a show, we should go to a show. If we want to praise him with others…..BTBF. not to mention Pete’s message is aimed at focusing us on Jesus, not ourselves.
The “professionalism” of music in the Church is the biggest problem and the use of a “tech” sheet.
I don’t think we need to fix the music, I believe the bigger problem is in our hearts. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, but we need ___________ before we can worship? We should be able and willing to worship Jesus with or without music. How will we worship Him in heaven if we can’t have the kind of music we like? It’s all about You Jesus, it’s not about me as if You should do things my way.
I sang & led worship in church for many years. A true worship leader would enjoy all genre of music celebrating God. Hymnals are beautiful music & so is worship, gospel, contemporary music are great. Worship service should be participatory & not a spectator event. Songs selected should be easy for others to sing, not sang too high & all latest hit songs are not for every congregation. Know your audience, pray over the songs to present & keep in mind worship service is not a concert, but Worship to God.
I am not in total disagreement with this article, but he does not provide any solutions. How do you change it? What is true worship? This topic is discussed at our house more than any other. The set is decided by a team from all campuses and carried out by each campus. I know from close experience that the worship team prays a lot over the sets and has a heart to lead in worship. It is a delicate balance when you have people from such a variety of walks of life. As a 50+’er, this is not the music of my youth, but I can tell you that when I bring teens and young 20s with me to church….people who have been unchurched all of their lives…they will sit and cry through the entire song service. That tells me that I need to lay down my traditions and let the Spirit move in hearts. I need to participate at the level I can and offer true suggestions for change rather than just criticize someone who is trying to find the balance. Yes….this is close to my heart…sorry about the rant, but we do need to think through this. We do need to be careful because the worship team is so visible and so critiqued every week….seems very hard to find middle ground…..it is hard to keep leading when you are so criticized. What are our options? If you take the time to flip through a hymnal, many of those songs struggle with accurate content and lousy melody lines. Jesus said, those that worship me must worship in spirit and in truth for the Father desires such to worship Him…..Let our hearts and songs be filled with truth, May they bring healing to the hearts of hurting people. May they lift High the name of Jesus Christ….may we worship in our hearts in spirit and in truth. And let us PRAY for our worship leaders, for the choices of songs, and for the preparation of our own hearts. Ok. I’m done smile emoticon
Hello Over 50.
I am really sorry that as a dedicated musician you have to endure such criticism. I have written previously on this blog regarding these issues.
No one owns you and no one has any right to dictate to you. There are always going to be whiners and whingers unfortunately. Do not let this stuff undermine and hurt you. If the whingers are not happy tell them to do the music themselves.
I do not spend a single minute praying over any song list and I am not about to start any time soon. We have quite an amount of freedom in our Anglican church. The thing is this; I have confidence that when we chose the song list God is at work anyway. We are often surprised that a couple of songs will dovetail into the very heart of the sermon without any carry on from our selves at all!!!!
Try this approach and be somewhat surprised. Our ministry as musicians was never meant to be this hurtful and disappointing. I stay away from the navel gazing and introspection as I find no value in it whatsoever.
We have people coming up and saying to us the songs were a blessing to them and that is without any of the spiritual flagellation.
As I have said before on this post; do your best and enjoy what you are doing. Forget about what people think, you will never please people anyway no matter how much prayer, tears and concern you endure.
If you are being ground down by your faith community perhaps your prayers would be better placed looking for new opportunities. Believe me they are out there and it can be a real surprise what God may have in store.
I sincerely feel sorry for the congregation where you “perform”, since you don’t think it’s necessary to keep God in the loop. I wouldn’t want someone as crass as you leading worship at the church I attend.
Choruses are killing sanctuary singing. We now have kids leading the music part of church that were dismissed to children’s church when they were kids, where they sang choruses. They have never heard the great old hymns.
Visit a Church of Christ. No instruments and almost everybody sings. We don’t believe in praise teams or choirs, it’s everybody’s privilege to worship. We do what is recorded in the New Testament, nothing more or less. I hope your curiosity and love of truth allows us to meet.
If you’re ever in the western Michigan area, Grand Rapids specifically, shoot me a message…I’ll show you a place 🙂
You left out reason #5: praise songs that keep repeating the same phrases over and over again. It may be worship the first two or three times, but then it is zone out and a hope that one’s arthritic knees will hold out for 16 more rounds of “Yes, Jesus, yes, yes.”
I have an 11 year old daughter and together we are studying the beautiful old hymns one at a time. We read about the life of the composer and then listen to the hymn on youtube. There are great stories of faith behind them and my daughter loves to sing them and often asks for her favourite, How Firm a Foundation. I say don’t underestimate young people’s ability to appreciate hymns. Oh, and we stopped attending a church a couple of years ago and now rather fellowship at a home church level.
Honestly, in most church services, the entire meeting has become a performance – a TV-perfect event to wow the senses. And the people are, more and more, becoming numb to it all.
Agree 100%. When you can not hear yourself or those around you sing. I switch off. Close my mouth and remain seated.
There are plenty of traditional churches that still sing from hymn books you should go to one of those….or maybe deal with the jaded view of the church you clearly have in your heart.
Is this a Christ like spirit you are showing? We stay with our churches because we love the people and they feel like family.
But should you not be following peace and holiness with all men (Hebr.14:12)
Are you preferring your fellow saints by telling them to leave? Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Are you following the example of Paul? If you are a worship or part of a worship team you are a minister? 1 Corinthians 9:18-23
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Is it possible you are becoming judgemental in your attitude with the following statement. “or maybe deal with the jaded view of the church you clearly have in your heart.”
Just something for you to think about
I can’t speak for anyone else but if I choose not to sing it’s for one of these reasons:
The music is so loud I feel ill, fear for my hearing and can’t hear myself singing.
The song is written with distracting grammatical errors or phrases that don’t make sense. If I can’t understand what I’m singing, I had better not say it.
The tune is so drony, I can’t catch the melody clearly enough to sing it.
The words say something I don’t want to say. I can sing these things for other people but this isn’t worship. It’s preaching or choral statement on behalf of others.
The music is so soft I think others will hear me singing and my voice will distract them.
There are so many words, I can’t get into the song enough to forget myself in worship. I’m still learning the song.
The people on stage look like they are performing rather than leading worship. I didn’t come to a show. I came to meet with God. If his presence isn’t the most obvious thing, he might not have come either.
Too many “I”, “me”, “my” songs.
God is doing something and the worship team don’t change their set programme to move with him. They plough all over it and continue the performance without him.
There are long musical breaks in the song that you have to wait for before continuing to sing.
That said, I don’t go to a church where these things happen often. The people in our church all sing. There is a variety of music – modern songs, hymns, Scripture in song choruses, the oldest and the latest. It caters for everyone’s tastes some of the time so everyone sings all of it to be a family. The presence of God is the most obvious thing in our song service. We’re not good enough to be a concert. People aren’t texting their friends. They are reaching out to God. Our music probably isn’t very good but I’d rather have the awesome presence of God than awesome music. If we can have both, that’s great but it will take a change of culture in many churches.
So well said.
I’m so sorry to read ur view on church singing.. our church sings loud & I love it… the loud drowns out those who are distracting…..
My focus is on singing to the Lord… not who sound the best… as for the songs… they need to have the Annointing oozing Through them… the ANNOINTING breaks the yoke…… as for the ones up front…. man… they go through massive attacks & need our prayers….if the devil can discourage anyone or any church from corporate worship then he has done his job….. worship brings God’s presence.. & we all long for that don’t we.? Pray ur leaders will choose annointed songs….. x Sue
This is bang on. A little short on solutions but identifies the problem very well.
I go to Church to praise and worship my Lord Jesus. Not to be part of the crowd. Not to worry about how I sound. It’s all about HIM. God’s word tells me to make a joyful noise to the Lord. It also tells me David sang and danced naked unto the Lord. I keep my clothes on but your going to have to put up with my singing and moving and clapping and loving Jesus. If you are not there to praise and worship Him…WHY DID YOU COME?
I am a pianist for my church. We integrate contemporary music with “old hymns”. When I’m not at the keyboard I love to sing with the congregation. In my personal experiences in visiting “contemporary ” churches is that not everyone knows the songs selected. Look around and see people standing there with blank looks because they don’t feel included because they don’t know they songs. Many of us do not have the time or availability of listening to contemporary Christian music all day, all week, to be up on the latest songs. Posting the words on some big screen does not help if you don’t know the song. Yes, I can read music and that’s a plus, but with just the words there, I also stand there closed mouth and lose out on the worship experience. I have steered away from the churches with the big show and loud bands because that doesn’t help my worship time.
As one man said in the video, “I am detoxing”
I was a praise and worship leader for 20 yrs at least and watched the changes as they happened.
My story is too long and boring, I’m sure, to write down here.
And I’M SURE there are identical stories out there…i’m so sad that I was thrown away along with many others….
Plenty of congregational singing in my Salvo Corp. a brass band in the side of the hall or a drum kit and piano (mostly). Mikes for those up front (not on a stage) and the church choir scattered throughout the congregation all help bring the opening and blessing on the Spirit in praise and worship to all.
Some songs are just that – songs of worship (Hillsong style), some are old hymns, some are Salvo classics.
I have seen congregations (traditional and Pentecostal) who tend not to sing though. Seems to be a matter about not having the confidence to be heard by their peers…
I was amazed at the number of comments following this particular article on “church music”. Music has split churches, divided families, baffled church elders and boards, pitted old against young. One thing I am sure of…Satan is thrilled with all this musical confusion. Being entrenched in Christian society my entire life, I have come to the conclusion music is just one visible aspect of the many that are shaking the foundation of all corporate worship, and The Church itself. God does not like a mix…He rather we would be hot or cold. I have sat in literally thousands of church services the last two decades, and watched the ways of the world move into the ways of God within our church walls. Caused me to do some very serious study of God’s Word. “Free in Jesus” may have more serious consequences than we think. When did the ways of God become the ways of the Jew to the traditions of man?
Yes, you made some really good points. But your best is your last. Singing should be between you (me) and the LORD. Finding reasons not to participate is like finding things to dislike about how a sermon is delivered; it makes the worship service all about you, (me) not GOD.
On the basis of Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19-20, I must disagree with many comments here. If singing and worship is between “me and God,” then why do these verses tell us (command us?) to sing to one another? It may be part of why we are not to “forsake the assembling of ourselves together.” After all, if it’s just me and God, going to church makes much less sense.
I completely agree with everything said. One thing that has happened is that the “worship leader” has taken privileges to add his own spin to songs we know and would love to sing. The other thing is repeating over and over and over and over the chorus. I have counted as many as 11 repeats of a chorus. Finally, he/she feels the need to tell us what the next two words are even though they are flashed on giant screens and are words we can read. I don’t have to have all the old songs, but oh how I’d love to be able to join in singing.
AMEN!!!
This is sad But at our church thankful this is Not the case .we are Contemporary Worship and our church body ranges 200-225 and majority takes part in worship.
lots of good responses..missing one factor ..most of the music sung today is what use to be used when the evangelist came to town.. it isnt praise and worship, it is motivational singing..has very little to do with GOD AND PRAISING HIM..it is make me feel good about me.. tries to set up the pastor like an evangelist would be set up by asking a certain type of music be sung before they came on to perform..
singing has changed so much to be like the world..people can get at home orin their car what they get in church most of the time..
many socalled p and w songs today have no foundation, no inspiration to back them.. they lack the anointing the older songs had..
i am an old school p and w leader.. grew up at the fopt of a piano player and church organist.. i plat trumpet, sing,lead p and w..it has changed way too much away from anointed music.. very few songs hit the spot, the spirit of man..
i say,GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING AND FIND IT AGAIN.. there is NO HEART TO MUCH OF THE MUSIC ..VERY SAD.. PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR IT.. HUNGRY FOR IT..THE CHURCH WHO FINDS THAT ANOINTING AGAIN WILL REAP BENEFITS..
A. I’ve seen pipe organs and traditional hymns with the congregation barely singing.
B. I’ve seen a Christian rock band with the youth singing at the top of their lungs.
C. I’ve seen Indians packed in a small church singing Carnatic hymns apparently impassably, yet faithfully, week after week as the church grows steadily.
D. I’ve seen a room full of people from around the world: Syrians, Indians, Mexicans, Sri Lankans, South Africans (black and white), Americans, singing “How Great Thou Art” each in their own tongue accompanied by nothing more than an Oud.
E. It’s less about the style or volume of the music in the worship service than it is about the spiritual health of a church.
Please try Church of Christ. They sing
A cappella
I would not agree that the music is professionally done. The contrary.
Song words too repetitive.
We start to worship and the sense of God’s holy presence disappears in the
Dischord sounds that are like scratching on a blackboard.
Mennonite church in the past have had such beautiful harmonies you felt like you were in the presence of angels.
I sure hope God is tune deaf …
One woman’s opinion! For what it’s worth . No way do I want to be entertained and non participate.
For many, it’s an intimacy issue. True worship draws the body together like nothing else. No formula is going to resolve that.
Some churches no longer even have hymnals but have large screens. They are used mostly for contemporary worship songs not hymns. It is sad because hymns have so much scripture in them you learn not even realizing it.
Learning is easier with music.
Just imagine, if we stopped catering to what people want and actually put God first in our worship. People coming to God BECAUSE of the music will result in people leaving because music is their god. I’d rather have 20 real woshippers than 2,000 who worship the entertainment on the stage. Yes, music has its place but a true Christian who desires to worship God does not need a group of people on stage swallowing microphones as they get all “God’s people” pumped up on a spiritual high so they can sit for the 10 minute message. People don’t even understand worship. They are too busy being entertained.
Very true, nicely written ..
I love to sing, even though I am not so very good. But this is right because I do feel inadequate as I hear the “professionals”. Even as I write this in the coffee shop I started belting out the song with the Beetles. But church does make me feel a little intimidated. We need to change this.
I have felt this way from the beginning even though I love the new contemporary music. I felt the closeness to God drain out of me at the new forum. It felt more like staged entertainment than true worship. I know that the new age movement brought people in to church that might otherwise not have come. I know some people still feel the hand of God during these services and I don’t mean this as a complaint. I am just saying I feel the seperation that I know others have told me they feel at times. I liked that there was a choir of your fellow whorshipers standing in front of the church inspiring and inviting you to participate in shared whorship. Current musical performances can be inspiring. It is probably my fault that it seems like spot lighting a handful of talented singers than true heart offering praise to God. I’m not saying that it isn’t working for some or shouldn’t be in the church. I am glad however that some churches have seperste services that keep the more traditional worship service alive. Praise God with which ever service brings you closest to your savior. He just wants to hear your voice and renew your heart. Educating oneself on the lyrics and history of the song can bring forth the desire to open your heart up the Lord and worship with new understanding. I’m not bashing new contemporary music or the new age movement in churches today. I have just come to realize that I felt like I offered more to God’s enrertainment and his so very deserved praise and less all about me in the traditional worship service. That is when I walked away feeling like I fulfilled His desires which led me to be spiritually fed which is how worshiping our Lord works. We praise Him, He fills us and lifts our spirits because he is a loving, giving God. Please forgive any spelling/grammer issues. Praise God no matter what musical form you use to inspire your heart. Honest worship of the Lord will always be rewarded. God bless fellow worshipers.
Thom, for those who feel like you do, your short position statement will be praised and passed along the electronic magic carpet with lots of thumbs up signs. Others may sense a small amount of cynicism and resignation but I think it’s more than a small amount hence we have the big shout out with your statement. Nostalgia is one of the most poisonous attitudes the church can exhibit. Starting with the Israelites on the way to the promise land, God revealed his feelings when the chosen people felt it better to be in captivity instead of being a part of the revival to reinstitute a worship of the living God free from the influence of task masters and unrelenting labor. God never wants us to look back with the intention of going there. As for music and worship, they are intimately entwined. My frame of reference is from a lifelong exposure to church music and worship. As a worship leader and church member, on the platform and off, I lived the transition that is being seen, felt and discussed today. Bottom line: music and worship has always been changing. Church music and worship has never been stagnant. Though lagging behind at times, Church music reflects society’s music. Congregants have always had a leaning for non-participatory “spectator” worship and since when was it a negative for a speaker, preacher, singer or musician to not be passionate about what they are doing and do it all to the best of their ability with all the tools available to do so. Complaining about volume is a lame and repetitive argument. We live in a loud society. 50 years ago it was the organist who persevered the murmuring among the people to lower the volume. Nothing has changed. Songs become familiar when sung and heard often. It would not take long to look up the lyrics of the most common worship songs and see that they are theologically sound and have a positive message for the singer and the world. Thom, you could have just revealed your real thought from your last paragraph and that would have been enough. It is a matter of choice, but mostly a matter of the heart. For the person seeking the presence of God, they will be able to worship and participate. Worship style is important. Find the style that speaks to your heart and spurs you to ministry and witness. Worship is defined as “heart change”. I see thousands of seekers singing and worshiping on a weekly basis. I know if it were not real, they would not come back. Criticizing other styles of worship does no good.
Regarding “professional” vocalists making people feel intimidated, there’s a tension here. Either 1) You want to offer your best to the Lord or 2) You want to help people feel good enough about themselves to sing out by lowering the bar. Some observations:
i. These are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Both are possible and can actually complement each other.
ii. Both terms are flawed to a degree.
iii. The first term is flawed in that you don’t just want to offer your best to the Lord. You should give everything for him. Mortify that which is truly evil. Utilize whatever else you have to glorify him according to its qualities. Don’t dismiss the people who have talent from serving just because they are particularly good. Don’t dismiss people who struggle but have a desire from serving because they aren’t very good. Rather, help them fit where they can contribute the most. For worship, this means that some people won’t be on stage, and that’s okay.
iv. The second term is flawed because it presumes that people should participate according to how well they feel about themselves because some people use how they feel about themselves as an excuse not to participate.
v. If your worship is focused on the participation of the people who are there, then it’s still performance-based. You have to rehearse the musicians you have that are leading the music, but worship is more than music. The pastor is the primary worship leader and the Holy Spirit is the primary worship motivator.
vi. So I go back to this: It’s about the spiritual health of your congregation.
I want to sing and hear a hymn. I do not like singing the same verse 35 times and calling it s hymn. It’s not. If young people do not like to hear hymns anymore, it’s because they don’t hear them, just praise choruses, sung ad nauseam. The guitars, drums and other instruments were so loud Christmas Eve, I could barely hear the singers. We sang one hymn that I recognized, the rest all had different verses stuck in hither and yon. So disappointing.
Become Church of Christ…at least for the worship… Just sayin’. I like the loud music because I can belt my own off-key tune while they stay on-key onstage and everyone else around me isn’t subjected to my scariness. Ears would die at alarming rates.
I am only 40 years old, but I sure hope that when I am 80 I am more tolerant than a lot of you are. If the style of music that I am used to needs to be updated to something new in order to bring in the younger people that are maybe not yet secure in their faith then I will be all for it. If you are one of the older members then likely you are secure in your faith. The church is supposed to grow, and that means bringing in younger members that can witness to their family and friends that are also younger and have many years left to witness. Those people don’t want the old hymns so things must be updated to ensure the future of the church. That is what you should be worried about, not whether or not you like the songs anymore.
How do you know you don’t like the old hymns if you never sing them? When I was coming up, I didn’t refuse to sing the old hymns, even though I didn’t like some of them, because they were old. I learned to listen to the message of the song.
I am 63 years old and I have been involved in church music all my life. I play guitar and bass and I can play some piano.
I have seen the Satanic influences in music and the effect it has on people.
When you are singing a hymn or a gospel song using the music that was inspired by Satan, it will not minister to people. Yes if you are a true Saint of God it will conflict with the Holy Spirit that is living in you.
That is the reason a lot of mature believers are not happy with the way things are going and cannot join in. Some do not know how to express it, but that is the reason why.
The churches nowadays are flooded with seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. The Gospel has been perverted. They want there ears scratched.
1 Timothy 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Jude 3-4 King James Version (KJV)
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
I do not care whether the melody is set to a country beat or a rock beat, if it was inspired by Satan, it is Satanic to use it. If you are trying to make your praise and worship be like the atmosphere you were delivered from, then you are not completely delivered.
You can’t take thing offered to idols and make them pure.
The people are searching for a peace that satisfy, but they are refusing to do what is necessary.
Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
Jeremiah say SEEK OUT THE OLD PATHS. They were looking for something new. They were looking for satisfaction. But they refused to find the rest for their soul.
Jesus said SEEK YO FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD and you will peace.
What are you feeding your soul? Are you doing this?
.Philippians 4:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
You may mock and scorn me, but can you prove me wrong?
I will not mock or scorn you, sir. and beyond that, if you truly believe that electric guitars drums and fast 4/4 beats are the work of the devil then no, I can’t prove you wrong. It is impossible to argue with nonsense.
“I will not mock or scorn you, sir. and beyond that, if you truly believe that electric guitars drums and fast 4/4 beats are the work of the devil then no, I can’t prove you wrong. It is impossible to argue with nonsense.”
James you have missed my point. It is not the instruments, Just like it is not the gun that kills a person, It’s the style, the way the music is played. If you are patterning your music after Beyonce, Rolling Stone or KISS. There music was satanically inspired when they under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Just like if you are trying to pattern after Willie Nelson, George Jones, Merle Haggard or Keith Urban they have used alcohol and drugs. A Christian will not pattern their music and worship after such examples.
You say any music that could possibly be in any way related to any band that you consider pagan is therefore satanically derived and sinful: yet most likely you (like most of us) celebrate Christmas with a tree (of Germanic pagan winter solstice worship origin) gift giving (most likely adopted from Roman saturnalia) and no doubt Santa Claus for the kiddos who is a clear adaptation of Odin. The style of music used for worship is in no way any worse than any of that, yet still you complain rather than being accepting of others viewpoints, as Jesus would teach us. I for one like the hymns and the contemporary music. However, I do not complain either way because I do want the church to be inviting to a broad range of people so that we can continue to grow…
“You say any music that could possibly be in any way related to any band that you consider pagan is therefore satanically derived and sinful: yet most likely you (like most of us) celebrate Christmas with a tree (of Germanic pagan winter solstice worship origin) gift giving (most likely adopted from Roman saturnalia) and no doubt Santa Claus for the kiddos who is a clear adaptation of Odin. The style of music used for worship is in no way any worse than any of that, yet still you complain rather than being accepting of others viewpoints, as Jesus would teach us. I for one like the hymns and the contemporary music. However, I do not complain either way because I do want the church to be inviting to a broad range of people so that we can continue to grow”
You have proven my point. I have not celebrated Christmas with a Christmas tree for several years, after I did some research about it and found out where and what the traditions was. It is satanic. Why is there so much commercialization. Neither do I celebrate Easter with a Easter bunny and hiding eggs, because it is pagan.
Am I legalistic, no? I just believe in living a holy life. I believe in living as far from the ways of the working of the flesh. I believe in loving as Jesus Christ taught it and live.
Let’s look at this example. Do you remember the story of Jesus becoming angry because the house of God had been polluted by thieves and robbers. You will say what has this to do with music? Follow me.
The Jews were commanded to go Jerusalem to offer sacrifices.
The law said that if they live a long distance from Jerusalem, they could purchase an animal to be sacrifice when they got to where they were going to sacrifice.. Well the Levites who was in charge of caring for the temple and different sacrificial places located throughout Israel, they had no inheritance and had to live off the people as they give. But what did the Levites do? They started selling the animals in temple. And probably being a capitalist they sold the animals at a higher price due to supply and demand.
Did the Jews need to Sacrifice? Yes
Did they need to buy an animal? Yes
Did they need to sell the animals? Yes
Did they need to make a profit? Yes
Did they need to make an extra higher profit because of supply and demand? No. This way a pagan practice.
This is where Jesus call them a den of thieves and robbers and got the whip out and tore up there playhouse.
Am I gonna fall out with my Saints of God, because they are doing questionable practices, such as the way they celebrate Holidays or the style of the songs they sing. No I am not. But I will try to show the people the error of there ways according to the Bible, because the Bible contains Sound Doctrine and that is how I am trying to live.
In closing, Are we willing to live by these two verses?
Philippians 4:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
I get your train of thought here, but there are plenty of instances in the bible where worship is performed with instrumentation… Psalms revelations chronicles.. Different instruments than we have now, sure, but those were the times. The bible doesn’t say we should use cars or planes either but that doesn’t mean we can’t, rigjt??
James, you won’t “mock or scorn” then you close with dismissing his point as “nonsense”? Do you hear yourself?
Mock: to tease or laugh at in a contemptuous manner.
Scorn: to express contempt for.
I did neither, I disagreed with his point as nonsense: words that either have no meaning or make no sense. In this case meaning it doesn’t make sense to group all rock and roll into the devil’s music. Skillet, POD, disciple, Petra and many more Christian rick bands make good music with a great message. They are anything but influenced by the devil. So to believe otherwise is, in fact, nonsensical.
One of the most difficult things about following this discussion is reading the contempt and dismissal that many (not all) of those who prefer contemporary. We have been corrected, disrespected, excoriated, rebuked, chastised, over and over and over, Indeed, there have been some of the non-traditionals who have done the same, but far less.
We have been shamed that we don’t have a heart of worship, that we aren’t focusing on the Lord.
What is so important about a favorite style of music that it becomes okay to judge our hearts? I realize that all you did was call the other person’s point “nonsense”, but if you take an hour or so and read back over the comments, you’ll see a pattern.
We have been directed to find another church repeatedly. But aside from the Churches of Christ, there aren’t many options. The vast majority of churches in our rural county here in the Bible Belt are contemporary. They didn’t used to be. The new ones all are. The old established churches are changing to contemporary at a rapid pace. In our county, there are only 3 Southern Baptist churches which have a traditional song service.
We are being pushed out, specifically so. If you want to have loud music, a worship team, screens instead of hymnals, repetitive choruses, okay.
Why upbraid those of us who don’t?
But isn’t tat the way the people are being educate in our schools and colleges If you have a different perspective or view, they will shout you down, protest or just not listen.
Students are being told in assemblies, that if a speaker is speaking something that they are uncomfortable with or they do like, they may be dismissed from the assembly if they so desire.
A lading news story whee a young man kill some people and they said he had been given everything and and did no know right from wrong. But him and his mother know how to leave the country.
This is the way our young people have been raised
Conform to our wishes, we will not transform our ways.
I think it’s naive to think “one size fits all” when it comes to music appreciation. I grew up with only hymns, and I’m a drummer. I now play about 90% contemporary and 10% hymns; it works well for the church I attend. I think preference is often a tool we use to condemn other’s opinions. Look, the loudest I’ve EVER sang was at a Promise Keepers event, and the music wasn’t loud at all, 70,000 men were singing so loud I couldn’t even hear myself and I was singing my heart out; and the songs, I didn’t even know the songs (back when I was at a church that only did hymns), so I literally was learning the songs as we sang them and as I read them off the screen. I’ve heard it said, that, “a worshiper, is GOING to worship”. Now, I don’t prefer blue grass music, but some people would LOVE that kind of music to go with their preferred songs. Don’t hate because we have differences in appreciation for music, there are HUNDREDS of church, find the one that fits, where you can worship in spirit and in truth. Is that really too much for anyone to ask?
James. Have you every done a study on the 4th Commandment? It goes along with the content of your post, which I agree with. We have been duped into pagan celebrations, and have ignore His Feasts. It just might be that the Great Deceiver has deceived The Church into worshiping on the wrong day (going way back to the 3rd-4th century) which is a slap in the face to Almighty YHWH. He has specific, appointed times to meet with His people, and I don’t think these appointed time are just for the Old Testament Saints. We very well could be profaning His Sabbath. That may add to the confusion of corporate Sunday worship. And not sure today’s church is of one Spirit, one Faith, one Baptism or one Church. Are we forsaking His Ways?
Linda, you are absolutely correct. Sunday is the Devil’s deception to mock Almighty God’s commandments besides today’s worship concepts of decorative lighting, spot lights and concert designed platform stages which are more or less like a secular rock concert. We know that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. God is Holy. We must be holy. Nothing that emulates the secular world view and system is holy. Jesus did not abolished the Law. The Sabbath, feasts and appointed times of God remains unchanged. We are to establish the Law of God in this life.
This discussion could get interesting. You do remember that Saturday was named for the god Saturn and Sunday for the roman pagan sun worshippers?? Maybe we should make all new names of the week, it may be the devil taking over that we use these pagan words on everything!! Things are what you make of them. The most important thing is what your purpose is and that your soul is right with him! Also remember Paul’s letters in the New Testament, Collosians 2:15-16, let no man judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holy day or of the new moon or of the sabbath days. Jesus was none too concerned on which day you worshipped as long as you accept God’s grace and Jesus as lord and savior. God’s love and grace are for everyone, not just the ones who worship on Saturday….. Or Sunday….
Hi James, I agree that we are not judged (condemned) nor bound by holy days or of the new moon or of the sabbath days like Moses which are under the Law. Instead we honour and establish God’s laws. Paul says that the Old Covenant system is only a shadow of the things to come which means the things are perfected through Christ under a New Covenant.Questions is does this text of Paul abolish the holy days (Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacle feast days) or of the new moon or of the sabbath days which are the appointed times by God?Are we free to change these dates as we wish e.g. like Easter day is not the Passover day? No is the answer for Jesus did not abolished these Laws. Why No? Paul instructed us to keep Passover feast in 1 Corin 5:7 – Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 5:8 – Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.Do we keep the date appointed for Passover? Yes, for it is the day Christ died for all of us and it is the day / night (the Lord’s supper) Christ instructed all of us to partake His holy communion.When Jesus Christ comes back (second coming), all men must keep His feast of Tabernacle under Mosaic law.Zechariah 14:16 – And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 14:17 – And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 14:18 – And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 14:19 – This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 14:20 – In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD’S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. Why then did Paul teach let no one judge you on holy days or of the new moon or of the sabbath days? The only reasons I can think of is the Jews with their Talmudic laws (not Torah) insisted men to obey doctrines / traditions / rules of men like you must not work nor walk more than 200 steps on Sabbath days or do the rituals under the Mosaic law. Mat 15:1 – Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 15:2 – Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 15:3 – But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?15:4 – For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 15:5 – But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 15:6 – And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Mat 23:2 – Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: 23:3 – All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 23:4 – For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men’s shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers. 23:16 – Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 23:17 – [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 23:25 – Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 23:26 – [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 23:27 – Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men’s] bones, and of all uncleanness. 23:28 – Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Old Covenant was indeed replaced by New. But God’s Law remains forever.Mat 5:17 – Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 – For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 – Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
WordPress.com James commented: “This discussion could get interesting. You do remember that Saturday was named for the god Saturn and Sunday for the roman pagan sun worshippers?? Maybe we should make all new names of the week, it may be the devil taking over that we use these pagan word” | | Respond to this comment by replying above this line |
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| | | James commented on Why They Don’t Sing on Sunday Anymore. in response to Alex Voon: Linda, you are absolutely correct. Sunday is the Devil’s deception to mock Almighty God’s commandments besides today’s worship concepts of decorative lighting, spot lights and concert designed platform stages which are more or less like a secular rock concert. We know that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. God is Holy. We must […] This discussion could get interesting. You do remember that Saturday was named for the god Saturn and Sunday for the roman pagan sun worshippers?? Maybe we should make all new names of the week, it may be the devil taking over that we use these pagan words on everything!! Things are what you make of them. The most important thing is what your purpose is and that your soul is right with him! Also remember Paul’s letters in the New Testament, Collosians 2:15-16, let no man judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holy day or of the new moon or of the sabbath days. Jesus was none too concerned on which day you worshipped as long as you accept God’s grace and Jesus as lord and savior. God’s love and grace are for everyone, not just the ones who worship on Saturday….. Or Sunday…. | Reply | Comments |
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Linda, I agree with you. We must go back to scriptures and not blindly follow what the church is doing today. Satan has long deceived the church from the time of Paul and the Apostles demise. In the period between 200 AD to Today there are massive confusions brought about by many false doctrines / teachings contrary to Paul and the Apostles.
God is not the author of confusion.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
James 3:15-17
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
What has the new song created?
Why do the leaders of the new song tell the people of the older song, “Go find another place to worship if you don’t like our new song?”
Why haven’t the leaders of the new song started there own churches instead of coming into an established church and changing them?
Why hasn’t the old song people accepted the new song?
Confusion.
Isaiah 41:28-29
28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.
29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.
Is it because we have itching ears?
2 Timothy 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
When I got Accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I accepted the way the elders taught me and was willing to learn. They had something I didn’t have. I wanted what they had and was will to repent (CHANGE) my way of living including what I listen to music wise.
I believe that music has became an idol in the church.
Would we be willing to sing songs with just one instrument without the big stage settings and just praise God? If not, then I am afraid your type of praise has become an idol and you are making a new song, but it is not the song of the Lord.
Read below when a minister feels led to lead a group of people into a new song, saying “We are worshiping the Lord.”
Exodus 32:1-28
32 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the Lord.
6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
11 And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, Lord, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.
18 And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.
19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.
20 And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.
21 And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?
22 And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.
23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.
25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)
26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lord’s side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
The people of the church of this age, they are wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked and they do not know it.
Revelation 3:17-19
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Every point made is very true. It ribs the congregational worship and togetherness. Often beautiful and talented, but our God wants our personal worship and lifting up our voices together. If this form of entertainment is so needed, makes one wonder how they had revival in the brush arbors and tent of days gone by.
I don’t believe you must change music to a peal to younger generation, I believe to keep them interested sounds like you must keep them entertained and then it becomes about them and their wants and needs. No teach them how to Love and have a relationship with Jesus and instead of just singing a hymn just to sing it teach them how to worship and praise and love Jesus with it, to make it personal. Even to the older generation that’s been singing them forever just to sing. Then you will feel the presence of God when you make it personal. Then they start to sing it in their homes and everywhere in their hearts to the Lord.
My wife and I and our kids find ourselves singing the praise songs at home and in the car just like you would a hymn that you know. And if changing to suit a younger audience is pandering to their wants and desires and taking the focus off of God then you arguing not to change it comes off as you wanting the church to pander to your wants…. Is that not the same thing?
We do have a praise team, but no band. Our praise team helps me stay on key and harmonize. I therefore get to concentrate on the words. Holland park church of Christ. Simpsonville , SC
Most congregations are unfamiliar with the music and lyrics displayed on the video screen, especially the older members who prefer to sing out of hymnals. Most contemporary churches don’t even have hymnals.
I do not completely agree with you. There are some churches the put on a show more than leading people to worship. But why don’t people sing. We are suppose to sing no matter how we feel no matter if we like the music no matter if it’s too loud or not to our liking. People don’t sing anymore because they base their actions on how they feel instead of what God wants from us and deserves from us. Let me say brother Paul and Silas didn’t feel like singing their environment wasn’t conducive for singing but what did they do they SANG! So why don’t people sing because they forget worship is not about them it’s about Him!
Perhaps more a capella singing could be done. I love a capella singing!!!!Joyce Posey
Thom,
If God looks on our hearts and also seeks those who worship Him in spirit and in truth, then why wait to sing and worship Him, regardless of whether people cater to your preferences or not? You offer a good and accurate critique of some common problems in worship services today, but you also seem to give yourself, (and thereby your readers), a hall-pass on your personal responsibility to worship. Also, perhaps you could seek to encourage others in how to worship God in the midst of problematic settings, instead of just critiquing? Being a critic is easy. Being one who encourages and brings about change is hard.
Thanks for hearing me out.
Your brother in Christ.
Obviously you’ve never been to a Hill Song affiliated church!! I attended a large mega church in Mesa arizona and it was wonderful. Happy, yes loud, yes professional and wonder filled worship music. Everyone from aged seniors to youth enjoyed the worship with enthusiasm
Have you seen the video of a Hillsong presentation of Silent Night in 2014? Hillsong took it off of youtube, but someone else has probably posted it. It’s definitely worth watching before endorsing Hillsong.
Yes to all points! I have a decent voice, on key, so maybe I’m not a good example, but I sing even if I don’t know the words (they’re on the screen, i try to follow along), my hands are in the air a lot (high 5-in Jesus they say?), and it almost always brings me to tears espevially “because He lives” and such. Years ago, As I was coming back to the Lord, I attended my brother church and looked over at a woman with her hands in the air, just meeting with the Lord, you could see it on her face. I prayed God whatever she has I want it. And since that day my life has been about getting closer to Jesus no matter the cost. So now, the thought of restaining myself makes me think, what kind of example am I setting? I mean, church is about you and God and I’m not worried about what others think, but then again maybe I am. After all it is corporate worship.
It has become a very refined excellent version of yesteryear’s worship but is that what it should be? I wish everyone got handed an instrument when they came in, and had more space to get down and boogie but that wouldn’t be very Baptist. Sigh
I would like to say that it is definitely the volume. My parents stopped going to Church for this reason. They have been going since they were kids…I honestly don’t understand why it has to be cranked up??
I disagree. All of the “reasons” cited in the article exist in our church but the result is that most people sing, and sing loud. I know I do. I can belt it out, joyfully expressing myself to God fully without concern that I’m drawing attention or ruining the song if I’m a little off key. I love it and apparently so do most of the people around me at church.
Try Sacred Harp singing. No instruments and robust vocalizations.
Wow, how sad. Perhaps your diagnosis has less to do with the form than with the heart of the participants. I suggest reading a few praise or thanks Psalms before heading to Church next time (try 98, 99, 100 etc). It’s definitely not as you describe it in our worship together. And, yes, we do have several leaders (who lead without making about themselves-praise God!).
I agree about Sacred Harp. We who like to sing seek out the Sacred Harp singings all over the globe so we can sing without any blaring instruments and with no conductor. We sing 4-part harmony loudly for the ecstasy of it. And there is no conductor. Frankly, if a church music director does not teach singing to the congregation, of what use are they?
I agree. I liked it better when I could hold the hymnal and see what notes I need to sing. In my generation we all attended a choir class in school and/or took music lessons. Plus, too many songs are written for performers not congregations.
I too have witnessed the lack of simginging in some* contemporary churches, but I don’t think it has much to do with the first 3 factors mentioned. Evidence: go to any modern pop/rock concert… They’re meant to be spectator events, loud, and professional, and yet people sing out louder than almost any church. I have been in contemporary churches with all of the factors mentioned present where people STILL sing out loudly! What gives? I think a lot of its THREE things: the skill of the worship leader/s to ENGAGE the church in participating, the senior pastors teaching/leadership in this area, and song familiarity. That being said, on your last point, a song can be learned pretty quickly (1 week or two) as long as ample time is given to engage the church in learning it. – my 2 cents
I am a pastor of a Church with contemporary music. People are going to prefer different types of music. The real issue in any church is getting people engaged in worship on a personal level. I have been in large churches with professional style musicians and singers singing the latest in Contemporary songs but with very few of the congregation actually entering in worship. And I have been in churches that focused more on hymns with very little congregant participation. Our society has moved more to an entertainment and performance approach to church than it once had. People come expecting to be entertained rather than to participate. People must be encouraged to worship personally in the service and as well as to spend time in worship when not in service. The importance of personal engagement must be taught and stressed. At times, all it takes is a couple of people engaging with a full heart to help others to feel more free to enter in. Otherwise most people will feel more self conscious and inhibited if there are not others worshiping freely with a full heart. Congregational worship should be a celebration and a giving of ourselves to God in what He truly deserves…a grateful heart. If people can be encouraged and learn to worship in their private time with God, it will be much easier for them to engage in the corporate worship of God.
This has been on going since people started “rating” how one could sing!
It’s never been about vocally praising but how well a person could sing
People simply move their lips
Follow the lines or just sit or stand their
Solos were all about ratings and performance
Until I did not receive complements did I know I was leading and worshiping verses insuring my performance was acceptable by the audience verses God
You need to YouTube some old-school Apostolic worship services (not affiliated w/ the New Apostolic Revival) where you can expect everyone singing, everyone out in the aisle and absolutely NO hiding in dim lights! The difference is, funny enough, we got the Holy Ghost!
newlifebham.com
It doesn’t have to have smoke and fog lights, and it isn’t worked up, when the Holy Ghost is in the House.
The old and the new in church mmusic will always be a dividing point until people on both sides are willing to have a blend of both. it is sad but it is no longer the preaching of the Word that is most important…Wondr if some will gripe in heaven becuase it is not their taste…Of course not.
Well I agree with some of this but not all! The bible teaches us not to bring the things of the world into the house of god! I have been in churches where I see the lights dim and the disco and strobe light on stage during praise and worship. I seen the musicians act like there in a head banging concert, I know we need young people to keep the church alive, but we also have to teach them that the world doesn’t belong in the church! I know that the church is for sinners, but when you become saved your supposed to put on a new armor and follow god, not the world! I love the praise and worship music and I even love playing it, but you can do it without putting the distortion of a rock concert and the smoke machines and disco lights!
You should come to our church! There may be that 1 or 2 . But everyone participates. I love when I can hear people’s voices that are right by me. I have been in large churches where the worship is almost like a concert. I think we loose the intimacy of praising the Lord then. Not putting them down, just that I think it should be a little toned down. Anyway, people should not be afraid to sing unto our Lord. He loves all of our voices!
Many congregations will be experiencing a return to liturgical worship services centered around Word and Sacrament: “God’s forgiveness breaks into our lives most powerfully through his means of grace: Baptism, Bible, and Communion; which are provided within a weekly liturgical worship service of Word & Sacrament.” http://www.7habitsofjesus.com/blog/the-seven-habits-of-jesus
I have not read all 1,200 plus responses, so I may be repeating someone else’s dialog here. I have been in pastoral ministry for 38 years now, and have also been blessed to travel to 14 different countries with the gospel message, and to train first generation Christians in Biblical leadership principles. So, I have seen worship services from almost every angle, from a single guitar as the only instrument, to a cappella, to the most flashy, glitzy production imaginable, and have come to this conclusion. The problem is NOT in the aforementioned styles of worship! It is a HEART problem! No amount of returning to “old-style” liturgical worship, or proceeding with “hopped up” showy worship leading will heal the problem. Peoples hearts, both lost and saved, are deeply troubled. The only answer to reaching new plateaus of glorious worship comes with personal repentance, and commitment to drawing close to Jesus….sitting at His feet and telling Him of your love for Him, and desire to know Him even more. You don’t have to be “LED” to do this. Just do it, and do it by faith. This will result in individual, often spontaneous outbursts of worship wrapped in the presence of the Holy Spirit, with or without being in a church worship setting. God Bless you
I agree with you Thom. I often feel like im at a rock concert instead of a worship service. The music is so loud that it drowns out everyone. I too would like to participate and enjoy robust congregational worship, but it is discouraging when the musicians obliterate the praise of the congregation. It would also be nice if the music selections were more diverse and included contemporary Christian music, Contemporary gospel, and traditional gospel selections, maybe even a few upbeat hymns.
Excellent assessment, my friend.
Some churches may very well do this, however, all these characteristics do not pertain to all churches with this criteria. We have the microphone, choir, loud music. We ALSO, have the worship leader who stays on her face in prayer for the songs that would usher in the presence of God. Our sanctuary stands but not out of complacency but rather out of reverence to the very presence of God that they feel when worship begins. There is no lip syncing there unless the heart condition of the lip syncer dictated it. The presence of God will be anywhere, with any style or type worship where He is welcome. Let’s stop judging each others worship because it’s not all the same and start worshipping a God that doesn’t care about our style but our heart condition. I am proud to attend Celebration Worship Center, Vernon AL.
Someone just posted this on my FB feed, six mos. after the original post, but I have to respond as the author speaks SO much to what we’ve experienced the last 4 yrs. We were part of the MOST Spirit-filled church I’d attended in my 60 yrs from 2005 – 2011. The Pastor was the MOST anointed, Spirit-filled pastor I’ve ever sat under or known about in the US. I’ve sung in choir for years and our worship brought down the Holy Spirit often to the point that our pastor wouldn’t even preach because the alters were flooded with people repenting, crying and praying. This is what worship is all about – praise, honor and glory to God the Father and the Son, which brings down the power of the Spirit. To understand what worship is about all one has to do is read the OT where God instructed David on building the temple, and the choirs that were to be put in place…their worship was so powerful and glorifying that the temple was filled with the presence of God and the worshipers were on their knees in awe, respect, repentance, and praise.
Our church went thru lots of upheaval and a split – Satan doesn’t like it when the Word is being preached unashamedly and people are getting saved. Congregants don’t like it when they have to stop playing at being a Christian and their toes are stepped on. We left this church in 2011 and have been on a search ever since to find another Spirit-filled church which preaches the whole Word and allows time for the moving of the Spirit in sinner’s hearts. We have been appalled at what we’ve seen.
I call it smoke and lights and lattes! Every church has gone to what the author describes in his post – smoke, lights, praise bands- no choir and the congregation either doesn’t sing at all or tries to but doesn’t know the songs. I, too, get tired of singing the same verse of a contemporary song over and over and over again. I love contemporary Christian songs, IF they magnify the Lord. I also like old hymns. Most young people I know, my son included, who is a voice/music major, also like old hymns thrown in.
Once we visited a newer contemporary Christian church – no denominational label – on Christmas. We were trying to help our grandson and his mom find a new church home. They had a big praise band/team and as the countdown to service started at ten min. prior to the service, they started to play an instrumental song. The band was really good….however, my husband and I finally figured out it was Carlos Santana’s “You put a spell on me, baby”!! On Christmas!!! They only sang two songs, one being a Peter, Paul and Mary song about “That Baby”, and the other I’d never heard of. It was appalling!
It has been my and my husband’s observation that the disintegration of our churches has started from the top down under the pretense of “we need to look and act more like the world in order to attract the young people and the world.” The pastors have started dressing down, wearing jeans – even holey jeans; their shirts – often wrinkled- hang out. Their attitude became lax about their showing respect to the Father and Son by dressing respectfully, and then that attitude trickled down to everything else in the worship – their sermons no longer preach the Word – they are feel-good sermons – they don’t convict and cause repentance. And even if they happen to preach a sermon that does stir someone’s heart, they don’t offer an invitation anymore so if the Spirit IS working in someone’s heart, there is no opportunity to come forward at the moment when a person is convicted to do so. My husband compares this to a car salesman giving a good pitch to potential buyers and just as they are ready to pull the trigger and buy the car, the salesman walks away.
As for how the preachers and worship leaders dress, my contention is this: if you were invited to a White House dinner to meet the president – say an honorable man like President Reagan – you would surely wear your best – you wouldn’t show up in shorts and flip flops. If you were going to a wedding, you’d wear your best. Why then, would you do any less to honor and respect our Lord and Saviour?
Another bone of contention for me is the eating and drinking during worship services! A large Baptist church we attended recently has a kiosk set up outside their worship center. You can buy candy, doughnuts, Cokes and lattes. It reminded me and my husband of the money changers in the temple! We saw many people eating during the sermon, even people in leadership. How disrespectful that is! Have you not houses to eat in? asked Paul. Last Sunday they served the Lord’s supper…one couple started drinking and eating right away after the Lords supper was taken. Call me fanatical and old fashioned if you want, but that is just downright disrespectful!
The bottom line is, our worship services have become all about entertainment, not about worshiping our Lord and Savior. Most have quenched the Holy Spirit individually and the church has quenched Him corporately. And there you have the Laodicean church of the last days, folks. Come Lord Jesus!
Excellent, excellent points, Karen.
Very well stated.
Most of the people that attend our churches are blinded to the truth because of compromising with the world.
we have entered as Israel a generation tt nows not the power of God.
Judges 2:10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the Lord, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.
I feel the same way.many younger people like Praise and worship music. Most of us seasoned christian can’t get into it. To me with all the hoopla and dancing and loud loud music I’m board with much of the. Praise and Worship music too..
My husband’s small country church has turned into what I call “Baptist idol” every sunday. A handful of people in the congreagation ( always the same ones) do “special music” that goes on and on and on. They have turned worship into their own personal “local celebrity ” show. I grew up in the Lutheran church. We all sing. All we do is sing. This never happens there.
It sounds like you have never been on the other side of worship. Design and create something that Is pleasing to everyone is not easy. More often then not, you are among a few within your church that feel this way. I certainly don’t want to attend what you are describing as the perfect worship experience. To me that is dated and not for me. My experience with modern worship is from a mega church in a big city down to a very large church in a smaller city, and find that people that attend these services sing out and are just as on fire for Christ as the worship leader. I would hope you have the same experience in your church of choice. I think that this issue is in the individual’s hands and they need to remember that the church they have attended for years may be changing the way it does worship. If this does not suit your needs or wants, then maybe it is time to find somewhere else to worship. The direction of a churches worship is not decided lightly. Most churches involves the board of elders as well as folks from the congregation. Once this change is made, the few squeaky wheels need to realize that they will not change it but instead cause Schism In God’s church. Move on and be happy worshiping somewhere else that meets your wants and needs. God speed.
Thanks for posting. Well said and what I have been feeling for a long time. I so enjoy hearing voices around me singing (good or not so good) as one. Knowing the words, but not repeating the same ones 20 times as the instruments get louder and drown them out. Yes, I do appreciate the gifted ones up front with the microphones and their commitment to practice and serve each Sunday, too. Somehow I think both could be blended together in particapatory worship.
It’s typically the ministry that is blamed, but it’s not just the ministry’s fault. I come from a very conservative background where there’s no emphasis on “professionalism”; there’s no “blaring” musi, and the song selection is an intentional combination of hymns, spirituals, and modern praise and worship. The songs are almost never cheesy. Guess what? People still don’t sing. A lot of people are cold and indifferent and won’t sing. And finally, you mocked people’s song writing skills. What are you suggesting? Should we only sing songs written before 1850? I don’t like 98% of the hymns. I’m not singing them either. Or should we allow the professionals to write songs? Of course that means no one will know the words to them and still won’t be singing.
I hear what you’re saying and agree to a point, but I do weary of the leaders always getting the blame.
Absolutely, 100% true! I’m a 52-year old female that was raised in the Lutheran Church. I loved the traditional music that I grew up with. Now, it’s just a bunch of “praise music”, which is just a bunch of crap. My husband is Baptist and I’ve been attending church with him for the last 20-years. He’s fed up, too. We’re currently looking for a church to attend that offers a “traditional” Sunday service. We attended church on Christmas Eve and I found myself singing my heart out. Beautiful music that you could actually SING. No praise music that pretty much just repeats the same two or three lines, over and over again.
Somethings I agree with here, some things I don’t. I am in agreement with the fact that sometimes, not all the time, congregations can lack a voice and not sing out. However, there are many factors for this; not just lumping all the blame on the Worship Team. The Word of God says, ‘Faith comes through hearing and hearing of the Word.’ Now in this sense, our songs should Biblically be representing the Word of God (hence many churches bringing back modern takes on Hyms) and in doing so should stir the congregations hearts as we worship corporately to sing out of God’s goodness. The Bible also says in 1 Thes 5:18-‘Give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.’ This means that no matter how you feel, no matter the circumstance that you face, whether the music is too loud, someone is singing out of tune, the lights aren’t right, what ever it is; the Bible clearly states Praise Him through every circumstance! This is a challenge for us all I believe but at no means does it mean you should consciously make the decision to stop worshipping because of your own dislikes?! This dishonours All the God is and All He has done for us. If there were no lights, no guitars or instruments would you still Worship? Worshipping isn’t just music and songs it’s a lifestyle. It comes from a Revelation of who God is to you. I hope this helps and encourages you. God Bless you
Seek ye out the old path and walk therein. Let God lead the service and Glory will come down!
I don’t personally want to hear others song or myself. I like it that way so I can belt out my off key voice and worship and without fearing I’m hurting someone’s ears!
It’s sad that even in church there is conflict regarding music, singing or not singing, blah! blah! blah! It appears this article encourages criticism rather than worship. Think about that one person who doesn’t go to church or has been contemplating going to church, you’ve just made it tougher for them by carelessly sharing your article. It appears that you have become more of a critic and less of a participant of worship. Whatever happened to, “AN AUDIENCE OF ONE?”
This article is rediculous. I’m a pastor and I travel nationally speaking in churches all across the nation. I can’t ever remember being in one of my Sunday services or being a visiting speaker at a church where at least 2/3 of the congregation wasn’t engaged in the worship. At my church it’s closer to 90% with the exceptions being mostly first or second time visitors who are unfamiliar with our worship style or people from religious traditions that don’t encourage participating. I think this article bleeds someone with an offense creating something that doesn’t exist. Unless if course, the church he attends has worship that is so uninspired the congregation just doesn’t participate. Smh
Several people have verbalized the fact that they don’t want to be heard singing – either they don’t want to bother others or don’t want to be self conscious or embarrassed. However, this does not square with Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19-20 both of which say something like “speak to one another in Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.” Apparently, the main point is that one’s singing must be heard by others in the gathering!
Fascinating relevant post and equally fascinating responses. As a musician and part of a congregation there are different perspectives yet the goal is exactly the same..I’m there, with God’s people worshipping Him throughout the service ( singing, praying and listening to His Word explained and taught).
Sometimes as musicians we can make worshipping God more difficult for the congregation if we’re so badly practiced that we mess up the music (although it’s good to show we are human and fallible sometimes) but the opposite can be true if it becomes such a ‘performance’ that we detract from other’s singing and worshipping by it overwhelming the singing/singers or becomes about ‘us’ rather than carefully leading others to sing in praise to Him.
I love old (& new hymns) but not all of them. Some of the tunes or lyrics are poor and contain little truth.
I love new contemporary songs /hymns- but not all of them. Some of the tunes or lyrics are poor and contain little truth!! Choosing carefully so we are singing truth and singing something that is helpful and not repetitive is important. Exercising careful choice is really worthwhile and is the least we can do as we worship God.
We should make choices that enable others to sing well, rather than struggle. Some popular songs are too complex (melodically and sometimes rhythmically and the changing time signatures etc can be a challenge for musicians too!) for congregations to sing well. Some songs go well with smaller groups, others with larger congregations. The same can be true for some older songs ( although less so with simpler meters and melodies).
We can debate all day about what generations prefer, but if something is worthy, we should welcome it.
Worship ( talking solely of music here) is not there to meet my needs/preferences, it’s for me to bring praise to the One who loves me, saved me and sent His Son to die for me.
I know it causes great passionate arguments on both sides, but going to a church where people raise their voices so enthusiastically to sing to Him does my soul good (& it happens with both old and new songs!!). I hope you’re singing again soon Thom.
Generally in the West, singing is now regarded as something that’s best left to the pros. The whole notion of capable amateur singing is fading away.
As a full time music educator and a part time worship minister I disagree with this article. Of course music and style has changed, is that not true of all music in history? People get defensive or offended because it’s not what they like or what they know. Perhaps those that say it is why they no longer go to church or participate in the music should research and find a church that completely satisfied their preferences. Guess what? You won’t find it. I try and use all styles, praise and worship with full out band and singers, hymns with just piano and a church choir special when they have a piece ready. We don’t sing every week just because that’s what church choirs do 😃 worship is a heart attitude. Hymns are all focused on singing ABOUT God, praise songs sing TO God. Yes there are some “cheesy” praise choruses out there, just like there are some hymns that are not worth the paper they are written on and take up space in the book ( which is why you seldom hear them sung😜) and let’s not leave out the many terrible choral arrangements written floating around out there. Sadly many are the contemporary praise songs arranged for choir that just do not work with their straight rhythmic dictation, good diphthongs and appropriate choral vowels. Lol
Anyway, I think we as Christians need to focus on the primary goal in services. Engaging God in worship. Allowing Satan to steal our focus because we don’t like the style, volume, words, the cracking trumpet, repetitive melodies, can/can’t read music, wrong chords being played or who is or isn’t singing. If we enter worship looking for something to complain about then the evil one has already taken our heart and mind away from worship.
Like
Martin Luther’s hymns were set to German drinking songs – just sayin’
Hello. Yes old Marty would make the quintessential “Worship Pastor”; he belted it out on the old Mandolin, liked a drink and had quite a mouth on him. Yes he was certainly politically incorrect!!
My kind of man!!!
I would like to see a full return to the pre-Vatican II mass in the Catholic Church, where the congregation is NOT supposed to sing. The priest should be superior to the congregation, and he should chant silently or inaudibly.
Crowder made a whole album on hymns! What is the Spirit leading you to sing?
So many people misunderstand what worship is. It’s not what style of music is being played or sung, but about it glorifying God. It’s sad that you’ve stopped playing or singing or even worshipping because of what others do or say or how they worship. It’s time to step up and do it no matter what! If you think by stopping singing you’re making a point to anyone, the only point this you’ve proven is that you’ve let the devil defeat you in you worship. Take you eyes off people and put them on God!
So you really think the style of music doesn’t or shouldn’t matter?
Then I refer you back to a previous comment in which the writer set up the scenario that a group of Germans join a church and vote in polka music.
Think of a type of music that is so distracting to you that you struggle to focus on anything else, Sunday after Sunday for 45 minutes+, week after week, year after year, then you’ll see what it’s like for the rest of us.
As long as it glorifies God and lifts up His name. Why should it matter what style of song? Worship isn’t for me or you it’s to glorify Him.
Again, I urge you to put it to the test. Go to a church that has a musical style that grates on your nerves and see how long you last.
I agree withuch you say! I attend a large contemporary church and though the people that do sing are truly engulfed in worship, many stand ,blankly staring ahead. I’m not sure exactly why. For some reason they are unable to release what they are thinking or aren’t thinking about what they are listening to. At first I thought they were just blown away by the spirit of “being in one accord” but I see the same ones come back each Sunday so they must be getting something. I would agree that perhaps the people on stage are better singers than most in the congregation. Perhaps some are just very Timid or not very demonstrative
Sounds like a heart problem to me. You and the crowd need a revival of your heart. No matter what they do on stage….yours should be a heart of worship. Look no further than yourself when it comes to the heart of worship.
Recent commenters, please take a look at my follow-up article: http://holysoup.com/2014/05/28/confessions-of-a-worship-wars-mercenary/
I so agree. I don’t sing and mostly for all of the reasons that you listed. I don’t mind some of the new music but really miss the hymns that I was raised with. Our pastor says that the type of music does not matter but it must matter ti him.
While this article brings up some good points I feel one big reason people do not sing these songs is that they all seem to be pitched for those with somewhere between high and very high voices! If you’re able to get away from the loudspeakers and there aren’t many people around you, stop singing and listen. The majority of voices will be high-pitched girl voices! There just isn’t anything for men with lower voices to sing! 😦 It is VERY difficult to find the alto or bass parts!
Why, why, WHY must contemporary songs have phrases that are repeated over, and over, and over repeatedly, again, repetitiously?????
Reducing each Sunday. I’m actually part of the praise band and participate as a singer also. This is the second article like this I have read in the last few days. I am NOT necessarily disagreeing with what you have said because I believe that the thrust of what you’re saying is probably true. However in our congregation people do same, at least for the most part. I do not think that the fact that microphones are used on the stage stops the average person from singing. Microphones have almost always been used on the stage in the last 75 years even if it is only the minister of music using one. The fact that there is a group of singers singing does not affect our congregation. I think that we have to be very careful in the songs that we choose. There are certain songs that are wonderful praise music but they are really made for radio only. We are not giving a concert. We are leading people to the throne. This is a good article.
No, you are not leading people to the throne. It’s is entertainment disguised as worship.
But it’s not just at church. Our whole culture has turned to “idolizing” the professional and the perfect. All our music is professional provided via TV, radio, CD… And it’s so “perfect” that we know we cannot possibly compare. So we don’t sing. Anywhere. Ever. And I, for one, feel like I’ve been swindled.
I’m blessed to be a musician and the father of twelve children. They know just about every word to every contemporary Christian song out. During worship at church they sing to the Lord with all they have. Constantly I find myself seated behind those that are so into it they sing with hands in the air. They can toss in the old hymnal, but I’ll take a good Chris Tomlin, Steven Curtis Chapman all worship time. Remember what Paul Stanley sings “God gave rock and roll to you!
Love that last line. Rock on
While I often think the instruments are too loud and drown out the vocalists, I don’t think we should stop singing. I experience these things mainly in a very large church.
And often a song is chosen for the lyrics whether it is a group song or not. Many times it a solo on someone’s CD
Wow I am amazed. I feel like the entire point has been lost. At the end of the day did God feel worshiped. That is the only reason we are worshiping……….isn’t it? It is the same question whether it is the music, or language, or dress or whatever. Do you love God and do you love your neighbor(fellow member) or do you just want it your way. If you are not where God set you, go find where He did. If you are, suck it up buttercup. Sing what is being sung and do it in worship and praise. If the decor does not suit you ask God to change your heart. I beg the church figure out that this is not about you, before it is too late.
The church I have recently started attending does things in a different manner. Words to the songs are portrayed by projector on the wall. The congregational participation is fabulous! There are musicians up front, 3 guitars, trap set, and piano. It warms you to the bone to hear these people singing praises, and personally I can’t help but join right in.
In my experience, worship happens when I choose to focus on the One worthy of my attention and all my worship, no matter the style of music or the leader.
If I don’t choose to worship, I lose.
If I choose to entertain judgment or criticism, I can create my own obstacles to worship.
Well stated
100% wrong. If someone is not worshipping it is because they choose not to worship. Watch this video. https://vimeo.com/139785358 When you show up to work you show up ready to work, when you show up to worship you should be ready to worship.
This is true to some extent. It is hard from some people to except change. I like most love the great songs in the hymnals but with music changes can also be very worshipful. I love what our minister of Music does. If it is annew song to the congregation, we will sing it several weeks in a row for them to learn it. We also blend both contemporary with songs from the hymnal. You don’t have to sing the songs to worship.
People will sing what’s in their heart…. not much of anything else. Like church isn’t a social club, worship isn’t about me. My soul sings. 🙂 Fall in love.
I feel with you and am so thankful our church has made a traditional chapel option in recent years that we can worship at.
Although I think it’s often asking God to help our hearts be humble and ready to worship Him no matter the style and our preferences.
http://www.faithit.com/open-letter-people-writing-sharing-open-letters-whats-wrong-church/#.VoLLPlxQvXM.facebook
….Oh and key is to have music that glorifies God and concentrates on Him rather than us. There is a mix of both hymns and contemporary that do this very well and are full of honor and worship to our King! Yet all styles have songs as well that seem “me” focused or more difficult to come into the heart if worship.
Possibly if songs or hymns don’t make it obvious Gods character or attribute and praise to Him the worship leader could take a moment to offer praises and the connection of how the song praises who God is rather than only what He does for us….
We need to have more simple choruses and campfire like songs and books families can take home to sing the simple praises together in their homes! The value in that is priceless and sadly being lost as well! Families need to have time to read the bible together and sing songs yet singing by trying to imitate a the concert style often heard on Sundays does not work.
Worship leaders and youth leaders please listen to this call to bring simplistic tunes to church our young people desperately need this!
( I’m only 40yrs old and can be categorized with young people yet enough age and experience to bring a bit of wisdom as well…)
This subject does need to be addressed even though worship is from our hearts regardless there most certainly are points made in this post that I think we as Gods people need to be aware of!
Charity: You have said it quite well.
I have made some strong remarks in this blog.
I am 63 years old. I believe I know a little bit about what I am talking about since I have been in church all my life.. I am a born again Holy Ghost filled child of God.
I am Pentecostal and proud of it. I am not charismatic, because there is a difference in the two. I have attended Assembly of Gods or Churches of God all my life. So what I am saying I am speaking from a Pentecostal Biblical view..
I believe what has happened with our churches, and I am talking from my Pentecostal background, please keep this in mind., is that the people in the churches have backslid. They have compromised their relationship with God to have more people. Sorta Like Drop the Quality to get Quantity In man’s wisdom, they may a facade of looking good and appealing, but what is inside leaves them searching.
One point I will give. More than I/2 of our churches do not have the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. That is what makes a church Pentecostal. So the Assemblies of God and the Churches of God are no longer Pentecostal.
As A boy in the 50’s and up until the 80’s You had churches, where we didn’t have trained Choirs. We had musicians. Ever since I can remember the church had guitars and pianos and organ. Drums didn’t come into the church till the 80’s . We didn’t have the lights and all that spectacular stuff going on..
The churches did not have a trained worship leader for the most. They was usually a person who could carry the tune the best and had guts to lead the choir. They would take the old Red Backed hymnal and sing such songs as I’LL Fly Away pg. 333, Just A Little Talk with Jesus pg. 92, Everybody will be happy over there Pg. 180 and Amazing Grace Pg. 157 and the power of God would fall and the people would get happy and they would rejoice. A song service would last about 30 or 45 minutes. It was’t unusual to sing the through a least twice, but we did sing same world over and over.
They would be shouting, crying and praising the Lord. They were making a joyful noise.
When it came to special sing we would usually have 2 or three special singers in a service. They were not trained. Some couldn’t hardly carry a tune, some would forget the words, but the glory would fall and it would sound like a beautiful sacrifice of praise.
Most of it was what you call old fashioned convention singing or Southern-Gospel music.
I will never forget when I learned to sing t”The Lighthouse.” I sang with two young ladies in the church. W sang the song through 4 times and the Holy Ghost filled the House> There were people, along with my self who saw the Presence of God fill that little Church pf God in Attapulgus, Ga.. lie a cloud. It was hazy in that church like a cloud. I will never forget it. No strobe lights or fog machines. Just 2 guitars and piano and three singers praising God and people walking back in forth in the aisle praising him.
WE would let the elderly that their voice quiver when they sing lift up their voices in a special song.
This was the type of services Elvis Presley and Jerry Lee Lewis were raised up in.
This is what I miss.
I can’t see why that new people come into a church that they think after a while the older people no longer know what to do.
You see the elders and older people are suppose to train the younger, not the younger change the older
1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
Incidentally, when we needed to buy hymnals rsch family would usually purchase 4 or 5 hymnals. Since I was singer I had a hymnal at home. Why can’t people have a hymnal like they have a Bible?
So you see why I have resisted changes, because I knoew what was working adn it would work today.
Most were small chrches that on a good Sunday had 50 people in Sunday School. BUT OH HOW THE POWER DID FALL AND THE SINNER WOULD KNEEL.
This brought up a good point that I, and all of us reading these blogs, should keep in mind. We all come from different parts of the Christian church and believe in some different things. For example you are Pentecostal. I don’t believe that speaking in tongues suddenly came back about 100 years ago like you. I believe in the word of the bible from 2000+ years ago where speaking in tongues happened to the disciples when the spirit came upon them and they were able to lay hands on non believers to achieve that miracle in order to convert them. It was meant for non believers, not for believers to prove their holiness in congregation. No where else does scripture say that you should or will be able to speak in tongues because you are saved. That’s just my belief, yours is different. However, we both have very different experiences with music in church as well, no doubt. So that must be taken into consideration. Not that anyone here is right or wrong, and none of us know with certainty what God’s will is other than what we can glean from studying his word.
I think you missed my point. I did not save you have to speak in tongues to be saved. But I did say that is what makes a church Pentecostal
I do believe that you can and are saved, if you repent of your sins, confess your sins, and truly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.. But I do believe there is an additional gift of the Holy Ghost beyond being saved.
You gave reference that tongues was for the nonbeliever> But my question who is it that God uses to be a sign to the unbelievers? Is it not the Saints? Are there not unbelievers today who don’t believe?
Now I know some feel that speaking in an unknown tongue was done away with as a sign or gift? There is no scripture for that. If one gift was done away with, then all gifts are done away with.
Have you ever attended a church where the gift was used properly. You are not suppose to speak in an unknown tongue in public, unless unless there is an interpreter. Now a person if they are able to speak in an unknown tongue,, they are able to interpret the message, if not they are to keep silent. Or speak to themselves. The same Holy Ghost that gives us the message also gives the individual the interpretation..
Brother I know it is real. Because I have the Spiritual Gifts operating in my life/ I am not boasting or glorying in the fact. I have spoke in unknown tongue and I have given interpretations. I have received interpretations of other people messages in tongue.s. I have also mentioned to other people who would be sitting around me that a message in tongues was fixing to come forth and it would happened. I have even written down interpretations and given them to wife and when they would come forth by another individual and they would be the same.
But that doesn’t make me a better Saint of God than you are.
We agree to disagree.
There a lot of things going on the charismatic churches that I am skeptical of, but I will not say they are of the devil or speak evil of them, because I do not want to grieve the Holy Ghost working in my life.
I do not believe that the Gift of tongues is able to be taught to an individual. Like teaching me to speak in Aramaic, Greek or Spanish. They are not a learned language.
What we see done mostly in our churches in done in man’s wisdom.. I feel that is why people are still searching and not being filled. That is why the music situation is like it is.. There are still unbelievers that need to see the power Of God..
I Will leave two portions of scriptures to think about. with no comments. Let the Spirit speak to you.
Judges 2:10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the Lord, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.
1 Corinthians 2:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Scotty Searan, I agree that some are given the gift of tongues which is a known and regconizable foreign language But it is not an unknown language which no one on earth understand.What is in the Pentecostal and Charamestic churches is a paganistic false tongues which No one on earth can interpret. The word “Unknown” tongues is in italic which is not a genuine written word but a wrong interpretation added word.Unknown should not be there in the bible.
All I can say, sir. You are right to a degree, but when I speak in unknown tongue, it is unknown to me, but I get the annointing from the Holy Ghost, not a paganistic practice. I get the interpretation as the Holy Ghost gives it to me and that is not a paganistic practice.
I was not taught the language or languages that I Spiritually Speak. I do not try to remember the languages. I move as the Holy Ghost annoints me and leads me. I do not ask God to give me message in Tongues or interpretation. I only use them as the Holy Ghost seems fit. There is no difference between unknown tongues, than a word of wisdom or knowledge or prophecy. They all come from the same Spirit.
I know it is real. I fasted and prayed to our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and ask God to give me the give of the Holy Ghost. I did no chanting or anything like that that. All I did was pray and praised and worshipped God. If you can call that Paganistic, I pray that God will have mercy on your soul.
It’s been many years since I received the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost and many times I have to stir up the Gifts that are within me as Paul told Timothy.
In closing let me save don’t ridicule something about the Holy Ghost that you do not understand. Do not continue to call this paganistic because that is blasphemy. I will let let the following scripture speak for itself.
Matthew 12:24-34King James Version (KJV)
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Scotty, I do not believe your age qualifies you as an expert. In fact in is very clear that you are swayed by emotions and your own opinion of how Scripture should be understood.
1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Yes I believe my interpretations of the scriptures, by rightly dividing the word of Truth.
You are as well as anybody else are swayed by their emotions, because it is something that God it is one of the things God created in us.
Where in the New Testament that it said for the younger to teach the older?
I have been saved (born again) since I was 9 years old. I have read the Bible through many times. Pastored a church. Taught Sunday School classes. I have the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. I rely on the Holy Ghost to lead me and teach me. What else do I need?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS,, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you..
Luke 12:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
I do not know everything, and never have professed to. But I do believe God’s Word and it has never failed me.. I try to give scriptures without interpretations and let them stand alone.
DO YOU NEED SOMEONE TO INTERPRET THIS FOR YOU.
This is certainly true, but probably missed the most significant reason guys – the larger socio-cultural context Of our western consumerist music culture in which we’re encouraged to be music consumers, not contributors or participants. To that degree ‘worship music’ is struggling to overcome the cultural patterning in broader society!
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVSermons/ChoirsAndSolos.htm
This is a good article out laying God’s design for worship singing.
Agreed
We only have congregational singing and acapella.
While much of this resonates, I couldn’t help but wonder: could we be missing the point here?
Could it be that the lack of singing is indicative not of a hesitation related to the performance level and other such factors, but that it has something to do with the level (or lack) of authentic followership and intimate connection to the Father/Son/Spirit that such discipleship fosters?
Could it be that what truly inspires wholehearted worship is a depth of relationship with God that few Christians have, or even believe is available?
Toalster. Agree. The topic of this post and all the comments are mostly centered around music in the church.
Think “music” is an infinitesimal part of an underlying foundational shakeup the church of today is going to experience. I would venture to say 90% plus of people sitting in today’s congregations do not open up God’s Word and study anything, any topic, on their own. Their knowledge of Scripture has come mostly from a pulpit or lectern, and that what they have heard is gospel.
God bless the Shepherds…pastors, ministers, evangelists, worship leaders… because they are going to be held accountable for how they have led the flock. Much is terribly askew in these western Congregations of ours.
Might I add, many think the Congregation and the Holy Spirit began in Act 2. The Congregation (or Assembly) and the Comforter have always been, from the beginning of time. I am thankful that I am from the Spiritual seed of Abraham, a man who is part of God’s Congregation and filled with His Holy Spirit, and that I am welcomed into his tent, and have received the full birthright as a Child of the God of Israel.
I heard someone recently say we should tear out the blank page between the Old Testament and New Testament, and that the Old Testament is a dictionary and encyclopedia for the New. Not the other way around. Your last paragraph says it all. I find very little depth or true worship within the Congregations of our nation. It grieves my soul.
It helps if one can sing from a hymnal with only the piano or organ leading. Then everyone feels they are a part of the song being sung. Where I go to church now, the singers on stage lead and like to sing the same song over and over again. People end up listening instead of singing. Plus the songs can be so s l o w.
I’ve attended every type of service possible. Even in my church we have 2 services, each a different style. “Blare” Is the only complaint that’s most consistent. While spectatorship does occur (why does the worship leader have to be up front? Choirs used to be in the balcony in the back.) I’ve seen more participation, especially in churches that encourage expression. And there are plenty of contemporary songs that you just don’t hear regularly anymore (eg. Shout to the lord). Blame that on our ADD culture.
Otherwise this is yet another article of how modern worship “isn’t like the good ol days”. We’re likely not going back to organs and hymnals. We left Gregorian chants behind centuries ago. So let’s figure out how to improve whats in front of us.
What is the difference in a CHANT?
Whether Gregorian or Contemporary it is still a chant. repeating the same phrases over and over.
Incidentally singing for the most part is not considered worship in the Bible. It was considered praise.
Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Worship is a matter of heart and the doctrine and the life we live.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Most worship in the New Testament means bowing or laying prostrate before.
I ask what position are most people in when they are so called worshipping in churches?
check out this link
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/Dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=VT0003400
I believe we want to blame anything we can on our own spiritual apathy. No one is responsible for our passion, ferver and heartfelt worship of the Lord but ourselves. If our love for the Lord is pure and true we would be able to worship Him in ANY situation. When we stand before the Lord and our lack of true love is exposed I’m pretty sure that our blaming it on the worship team, style of music, lack of hymnals or volume of the music will be accepted by the Lord as a valid excuse. It is simply the condition of our hearts, plain and simple.
Boom. This.
I rather here scriptures then have everything sung. Also, they keep changing the tunes to certain praises , you can’t keep up. Annoying. I’m guilty of this at times too and I like to sing
If you wanna worship one has ony but gratitude to sing to their lord and saviour.
If you want Jesus go and get Jesus,if you want to speculate than do it….God don’t need your worship….but if your hungry for him…than worship!
We cannot blame what churches do to speculate or to contemporize in a service…it all comes down to…Dobyou want God’s presence or not….he lets us choose….why must we have to blame everyone but yourself ifnwe want Jesus or not….Be unblemished… Andbifbyou are get right and when your right dontbpoint fingers…and Christian remeber to help your fellow falling Christians…..that whats most important.
I sing sometimes but there are a few times I do not. The reasons are: 1 – there are no notes to follow so if you don’t know the tune you can’t sing. 2 – if it is an old hymn they often change the words & I am singing out the wrong words or they add rests that are not in the original so I end up singing a solo 3 – the newer choruses are repeated till I am sick of them & refuse to sing them one more time!
I would Tend to disagree. I believe in the services we see now worship is stronger than ever. Remember there is a difference in )praise and worship) and a (song service) praise throughout all of the nations is at an all time high allowing the Holy Spirit to move in ways He has not moved in years. Their may be some that are not singing for various reasons but it is NOT due to churches making it harder to worship. It is most commonly due to where they are in that season of their relationship with God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Just my thoughts.
So you are saying: ‘THAT IF A PERSON IS NOT SINGING THEY ARE NOT RIGHT SPIRITUALLY.”
THEY ARE NOT RIGHT BECAUSE:
The Music is Too Loud
The Songs that are sung does not make sense.
If they want to sing some of old hymns.
They do not know the words.
They do not know the tune.
They do not like the style of music.
That the theatrics take away from praise.
Because the older people seek respect of the younger generation.
That we want to see people saved and spirit filled by praise ministry of the church.
That we would like to feel the power of God one more time in our services like we once had.
that the younger people would seek out the old paths and advice of the elders and walk there in.
That we love Godly in this present world, being transformed by the renewing pf their mind.
That the Godly shall suffer PERSECUTION.
Because this might be happening in our churches all ready.
Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
I feel there are “worship leaders” who are really performers rather than those who lead the congregation into worship b
I would like to throw something into the conversation here… What is worship? What is its purpose? What does God say about worship, about how we are to worship Him and especially, why we are to worship?
Are we commanded to congregationally sing at all? Are we commanded to have a stage with a band and lead vocalists?
Is our church set up currently even remotely like what Jesus meant when he said, “True worshippers will worship in Spirit and in Truth”? Is Modern church in all its forms even remotely what Jesus had in mind?
I knew the guys at Hillsong before it was a leader in the area of worship and Darlene was a professional artist who brought her professional gift to church. With people like David Moyes (former Air Supply guitarist) they took the style of the current music genres and mixed it with worship to attract people creating ‘popular’ worship music. This is no different from traditional churches who stole the melody of the day and changed the words to attract people over the centuries. It is an attempt to stay relevant.
Our conversations should be about what is worship and what is most important in this process called worship. Congregational singing is how we have evolved worship, but was it God’s plan or mans?
And if it was God’s plan, how did he expect it to be done in a New Testament context, because Jesus was a fulfilment of the Old Testament and he instigated a New Covenant.
I think a concert is a concert. And congregational singing is congregational singing. But is either or both true worship? And if both are God’s intention, can’t the two be combined?
This is the conversation we need to have because the ‘how’ must be dictated by the ‘why’ and the ‘what’. I feel that we have given worship our own meaning – it is more for us, than truly for God – for we are seeking something from the experience when it really should be a gift we are giving.
Scotty Searan ;
In closing let me save don’t ridicule something about the Holy Ghost that you do not understand. Do not continue to call this paganistic because that is blasphemy.
Alex Voon response :
I am not saying you are speaking in false tongues but I have been duped into believing and speaking in this common kind of tongues which I checked and found out is false. All things must be proven ( same goes for other unknown tongues ). If Paul is teaching that these unknown tongues Can Never be interpreted, then Paul would not insist that it must be interpreted in order to not contradict his teaching that All things must be proven. There are just too many false prophets around teaching false doctrines that we must be on our guard. Statistic shows that there are Not one in my previous Charismatic church of 5,000 who speaks in other tongues can ever interpret these other tongues that they are speaking. I spoke/prayed in this kind of unknown so called other tongues for 10 years and Not one in my church and all the churches in my country could ever interpret what I speak nor what they speak. Check out if this is true in all the churches in your country and around the world. Check the you tube on videos to see the weird things on tongues.
Alex:
I am 63 years old and I was filled with the Holy Ghost at the age of 10 years old. I do not not feel like I have been duped.
Like I said I have given messages in tongues and I have given interpretations..
Now I do not question whether you have the gift of tongues or not.. But I will state and I believe by the scriptures I am correct., that if you speak in an unknown tongue by the Holy Ghost you have the ability to interpret by the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Now, I speak in love, You said you spoke in tongues for 10 years and no one interpreted. Did you keep silent after you gave the utterance?
Did you pray for the interpretation? Now I am not being facetious. I don’t believe the Holy Ghost will move on someone to give a message and not allow that person to be able to interpret spiritually. Now the unbeliever may not be able to understand if you don’t interpret or unless the message might have been directed to them because they knew the language.
I hesitate to use myself as example, but I will.
I was in a service in a small Assembly of God in Quincy, Fl. where I attended regularly and one Sunday night I gave out a message in tongues and the pastor interpreted. There was visitor that night who attended FSU. And after the service ended, the lady approached the pastor, and the pastor called for me to join them. This lady who a student at FSU was from France, said my message in tongues was spoken in French and the pastor had interpreted it word for word as if it was a translation.. I have had it happen 2 more times in my life with me giving the message and interpretation. THey all three were different languages. I only Know English and have never taken any other classes or course to learn any language.
PRAISE GOD I HAVE THE REAL THING!!!
You can’t tell me that it doesn’t happen and it is not for today. You’ve come too late.
I will contend there are a lot of things out there that masquerade as the Holy Ghost, but they are not real. But I will not call none of them evil or whatever, because I do not want to commit the unpardonable sin.
God bless you.
Scotty, you have absolutely ruined this thread for me. Congratulations. We have gone from a musical discussion to you trying to prove to everyone that speaking in tongues, not documented to have happened for almost 2000 years suddenly happens but only to people who are Pentecostal. I am going to unsubscribe to the updates and move on because I really don’t want to continue to offend you, and make this about something more than it is. I’d tell you farewell in another language but I fear you wouldn’t understand…
James: IfI offended you. I apologize. But describing the way that I was raised and my religious up bringing I do not think is wrong. My intention was not to change the focus of this discussion to the Gifts of The spirit, But I was just pointing out the type of worship, which was Pentecostal.
Also I did make a remark about The Pentecostal denomination about them no longer being Pentecostal because of evidences.
That was in way intended to changes the topic of the thread. I was just stating a viewpoint in the denomination with who I participate. Now let me cut something off at the past. The Pentecostal denominations are no different than other denominations at this pints. They never were better than any other denominations, but they were different, because of believing in the full Gospel and the Manifestation of the Holy Ghost. BUT WE WERE NOT BETTER OR HOLIER THAN THE OTHERS, JUST DIFFERENT.
I believe the Pentecostal denominations and the Charismatic denominations have been duped more by the CCM praise and worship and it is because they are not following the old paths and have went backwards and compromised to gain popularity and more people, but in turn have lost the TRUE spiritual worship.
I am just stating an observation.
Maybe more should state there observations.
God bless you.
Scotty Searan, You are right your gift of tongues is real as it is French language proven by a French lady.But majority of the gibberish tongues spoken by Charismatic churches are not a language at all which no nation can understand and hence can never be proven. Paul says they speak into the air.They are actually false tongues which no one in this world can understand. I affirms that there are No unknown tongues in the bible and every tongues must be proven.1 Corin 14:6 – Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 14:7 – And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 14:8 – For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 14:9 – So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 14:10 – There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification. 14:11 – Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.
Check out the Charismatic churches in your country.
Noon Choy: you said: “But majority of the gibberish tongues spoken by Charismatic churches are not a language at all which no nation can understand and hence can never be proven.” My question to you and I am not trying to be facetious? Do you knows or recognizes every language in the world? Do you know anyone who knows or understands every language in the world?
I don’t believe so. For you to make such an emphatic statement is just as fact, could be borderline blasphemy, if not being blasphemous. This action could be detrimental to your salvation.
I will say there are counterfeits, but I am not going to say what or which is counterfeit, because I honour the Holy Ghost too much to do that and I do not want to grieve Him, which I know I have unintentionally, bit I do not intend to do it intentionally.
THink about it.
Ephesians 4:29-31 King James Version (KJV)
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Since you are not interested to check it out within country and your own church. Well Scotty Searan, you can deny the facts and stay ignorant but it is certainly a true fact that many Christians speaking in gibberish tongues cannot understand what they are doing. I am witness that gibberish tongues are false tongues because I speak in gibberish tongues for 10 years and Not one out of 5000 in my church can interpret these gibberish tongues which they speak. Non Charamistic Christians agrees with me. Scotty said, I don’t believe so. For you to make such an emphatic statement is just as fact, could be borderline blasphemy, if not being blasphemous. This action could be detrimental to your salvation.
I know very well what is blasphemy and I have no intention (nor hatred) of speaking evil. Hence I took 5 years of waiting and seeking the Lord before I make such a statement to speak what is truth. All your assumptions are just uncalled for and senseless.
If you and the others who have spoken in an unknown tongue and did not receive an interpretation. Then You and the others did not follow the scriptures. And by that it proves that it may be the counterfeit. If you were deceived once, what makes you think that you are not now.?
1 Corinthians 14:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
I can only pray for you. I know it is real. I also know for every real thing, Satan has a counterfeit, even with those who do not believe in the Gifts of the Spirit.
There are a lot of people who believe they have been born again, but by there actions you know they are not. Are you gonna say that no one gets born again and saved because of those people?
I will pray for you.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Scotty Searan, All your bible quotes – I need not you teach me for I know it myself. For your info – God gave me the gift of tongues and the gift of interpretation which I never even ask for. It is a known foreign language. But I learn the gibberish tongues from my Christian sister. The same can be said for many Christians of my church. I even teach new believers to speak the gibberish tongues. This is the false tongue because No one can prove it is real. If you ask anyone in your church who speak gibberish tongues, I am sure No one nor you will be able to interpret for them. Check and try to find out. If you have the gift of interpretation which is French or other language, then you will be able to understand that language to interpret it every-time (not just once). Your assumption that we do not know every language in this world is futile. We must test and prove all things. There are No unknown tongues whereby No one in this planet can understand. Satan deceive those who believe in an Unknown tongue because No one can ever prove it is wrong. But God instruct us to test and prove everything.
We know that there are other religion (cults) that speaks the same astatic and gibberish false tongues which we speak as Dr James White had mentioned.Paul affirms this (gibberish false tongues) did actually exist and was operating in the Corinthian church in which he rebuked the Corinthians as Speaking into the air.1 Cor 14:9 – So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.How can we discern or judge which is real or false (tongues)?Paul emphasized strongly that tongues ought to be interpreted because both these gifts were truly manifested in Corinthian. Otherwise no one is able to assess if it is real or false and Paul would not teach this – except he interpret – Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret. 1 Cor 14:5 – I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.14:13 – Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.14:27 – If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.14:28 – But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.We are already confused if there is no means to understand what we speak (gibberish false tongues). Tongues ought to be interpreted with the gift of interpretation.14:33 – For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
I understand where you are coming from.
It breaks my heart that someone would lead an unsuspecting individual down the path and get caught up in learning a gibberish, which is a counterfeit of the Holy Spirit. You see I made reference to a service where I gave out a message in tongues and the pastor interpreted it. and there was an individual who spoke French and told the pastor what I spoke in was French and what he interpreted was not only an interpretation, but a translation according to the individual, who was a student at FSU in Tallahassee, Fl..
I have never been taught a gibberish as you say. It has all came through my mine before I speak. I have not ever learned or studied any foreign languages. I have a hard time trying to pronounce the words in a Strong’s Bible Concordance. I have experiences like this happened with me 2 other times with different languages.. I have known of two other individuals who have had this to happen to them also. I know it is real.
I can understand why, you say all of it false, but it is not.. But I can tell that I do not plan to go to church to speak in tongues or to pray over somebody in tongues, when I pray for them.
I am also preacher. I am a third generation Pentecostal. My grandfather, who died at the age of 98 in 1987, was an A Holiness preacher. He started preaching when he 22 years old and received the Holy Ghost when He was 20. So that would put him having this experience in 1909.
Now I will tell you, to my natural intellect it would sound like gibberish. I cannot naturally interpret it, but the interpretation comes to me or an individual spiritually who interprets. I have asked God to not allow me to speak any message simultaneously in the same language. I have heard my messages in tongues on recordinging and they all do not sound alike. God has blessed me with speaking in different languages. I know because you can listen to foreign languages and not understand them, but pick up on their phraseology..
To me there is a lot of false manifestations of the a spirit now days. There are a lot of things about speaking in tongues and other manifestation of so called gifts of a spirit, that I question.
I would like to communicate with you more about this, if you would allow.
Go to my facebook: SCOTTY SEARAN Climax, Ga. and I would be glad to talk with you.
I do understand why you consider it false. But I know it is real.
God bless you Voon Choy. I look forward to hearing from you.
Scotty Searan, does your pastor or anyone in your church interpret tongues frequently, many times during or after service and other gatherings?How many of them in your church has the true gift of tongues? Start to check and prove this in your church. Test every spirit and prove them if possible.
WordPress.com Scotty Searan commented: “I understand where you are coming from.It breaks my heart that someone would lead an unsuspecting individual down the path and get caught up in learning a gibberish, which is a counterfeit of the Holy Spirit. You see I made reference to a service wh” | | Respond to this comment by replying above this line |
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| | | Scotty Searan commented on Why They Don’t Sing on Sunday Anymore. in response to voon choy: Scotty Searan, All your bible quotes – I need not you teach me for I know it myself. For your info – God gave me the gift of tongues and the gift of interpretation which I never even ask for. It is a known foreign language. But I learn the gibberish tongues from my Christian […] I understand where you are coming from.It breaks my heart that someone would lead an unsuspecting individual down the path and get caught up in learning a gibberish, which is a counterfeit of the Holy Spirit. You see I made reference to a service where I gave out a message in tongues and the pastor interpreted it. and there was an individual who spoke French and told the pastor what I spoke in was French and what he interpreted was not only an interpretation, but a translation according to the individual, who was a student at FSU in Tallahassee, Fl..I have never been taught a gibberish as you say. It has all came through my mine before I speak. I have not ever learned or studied any foreign languages. I have a hard time trying to pronounce the words in a Strong’s Bible Concordance. I have experiences like this happened with me 2 other times with different languages.. I have known of two other individuals who have had this to happen to them also. I know it is real.I can understand why, you say all of it false, but it is not.. But I can tell that I do not plan to go to church to speak in tongues or to pray over somebody in tongues, when I pray for them.I am also preacher. I am a third generation Pentecostal. My grandfather, who died at the age of 98 in 1987, was an A Holiness preacher. He started preaching when he 22 years old and received the Holy Ghost when He was 20. So that would put him having this experience in 1909. Now I will tell you, to my natural intellect it would sound like gibberish. I cannot naturally interpret it, but the interpretation comes to me or an individual spiritually who interprets. I have asked God to not allow me to speak any message simultaneously in the same language. I have heard my messages in tongues on recordinging and they all do not sound alike. God has blessed me with speaking in different languages. I know because you can listen to foreign languages and not understand them, but pick up on their phraseology..To me there is a lot of false manifestations of the a spirit now days. There are a lot of things about speaking in tongues and other manifestation of so called gifts of a spirit, that I question.I would like to communicate with you more about this, if you would allow. Go to my facebook: SCOTTY SEARAN Climax, Ga. and I would be glad to talk with you.I do understand why you consider it false. But I know it is real.God bless you Voon Choy. I look forward to hearing from you. | Reply | Comments |
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Yes our pastor interprets, along with myself and two other people.
We do not have singing in tongues.
We do not allow everybody praying in a prayer language as some churches do.
No more than 3 messages in tongues in any service.
If someone does not get an interpretation, they are instructed to keep silent.
Only one person allowed to interpret during any service.
We’ve had a couple of ministers come through that tried to change and better educate us. But we stand on 1 Corinthians 14 as a guide.
We accept the Apostle Paul’s doctrine as final say, not some new revelation as some.
We are a small church about 50 people. Preachers do not stay long, it seems they all want to have a bigger church and more money.
We do ask newer ministers concerning their beliefs about the working of the Holy Spirit and if they do not agree with the Biblical doctrine we do not consider them any longer.
So many believe that the spiritual Gift of Tongues can be learned the same as that a new language can be learned naturally. We do not believed the Spiritual language can be learned as a natural language .
Would you like to talk about this on a PM on Facebook? I feel it would be better than in this article.
I think singing is a big part of worship. Hymns are easy to sing for most but churches don’t use hymns anymore. Church doesn’t feel like church anymore.
I have visited over 90 churches in the past few years and at only a few did the congregation do much singing.
The modern church has marketed themselves and treated attendees as consumers. This is how consumers act; they’re there to consume content, not to give back to God — or to each other.
It’s sad.
Well put.
Just one question, how come all the great Revivalists had so many come forward at altar calls regardless of the music. Billy Graham, Spurgeon and many more preached the Word and it convicted people. I ask the question why do we sing one song over and over maybe up to 6 times and everyone develops the glazed look only to walk out of church and not give a rats about the people they rub shoulders with??
This does not describe my church 🙂
Perhaps those whose job it is to “lead worship” need a refresher course on what worship really is….?
I agree, I think because of this change we are losing the spirit of worship. Even the usage of the hymns. David strummed the harp that accompanied the songs of his heart. I realize we need to sing modern songs too, without losing our worship for God.
Why the need to sing 1 song over and over many times and become almost entranced and yet walk out of church without caring for the people who they rub shoulders with? Billy Graham taught The Word without all the frilly bits as did the great Reformists. Do we really win more people to The Lord by repeating songs over and over??
Wow…. such an emotive subject and it is good to question our worship. So many good points from both sides! I come from an accapella background and love singing – even though i am not blessed with the best voice. I now go where music is a part of singing, but we lost it. We had music and could hear each other, as well as sing songs with some depth and not having to repeat the same words 5-6 times. Now we have a worship with music so loud that i cannot hear my own voice!!! Believe me, i have a loud voice but would have to scream to hear myself. the song leader’s justification is that it is “high impact.” Sadly, he never thought who he was impacting!! Also, when we analyze the songs, they are so shallow, often with one point alone, to be sang 5-6 times. There are so many good songs (and also great hymns) that can be sung but mean alot; and if we hear each other then we can be encouraged by each other. Even my 23 year old son, who is an avid supporter of music in worship, has come to realise that singing has become noise and shallow of heart in many churches. I wish the leaders would think about why we sing rather than putting on a show, but thankfully, not all are like this. 🙂
This seven verses eleven times is getting really old. They are secular songs with “spiritual” words. 99% of the time you could change Lord to him/her and it would be a love ballad. I love hymns. They aren’t repetitious pablum. I know teens that love the hymnal. It’s just an excuse to play loud guitar and drum solos so loud you can’t think. Sorry I’m done with it.
Fortunately, my church has no “worship leader” aside from the rector, no miked singers, no stage but a proper altar, and we happily sing as a congregation, with great gusto. We can hear ourselves and our neighbors sing, for better or worse, but always lifting a joyful voice to the Lord. Our organ was thoughtfully designed first and foremost as accompaniment to the congregation. Yes, we do sing on Sundays.
I’ll tell you why I don’t bother singing anymore. I’m 65 years old and it’s because the music directors in trying to help churches become more contemporary and charismatic are only using contemporary music that I have no idea what these songs are. The words are on display but the notes aren’t so one has no idea where the music is going from note to note. It’s too much work to try and sing a song you don’t recognize or know the music to it. Bring back several of the old hymns mixed with the newer ones and I’ll bet you’ll find more people singing. One last thing, is there a reason why we have to stand for the whole 30 minutes singing the same 5 words over and over. I worship God better when I’m sitting in a relaxed frame of mind as opposed to standing whereby my mind wanders about how much my knee hurts, or my back is aching, etc. I lose focus when I’m in pain or uncomfortable.
The church I attend sing contemporary songs and updated version of the old hymns. The words are on three screens and can be easily read no matter where you are in the sanctuary. Sure, it may take a few times getting comfortable with a new song and in those circumstances I usually worship quietly allowing the words to sink deep within me.
I am not gifted with a beautiful singing voice and can feel intimidated when I know others can hear me, as if my flat off key notes will put them off worshiping the Lord. The music at church can be loud but I’m okay with that. You see because I know I won’t be offending the ears of my fellow worshipers I am free to sing before my Lord with all my heart, and sing I do with hands up lifted in total surrender. I may be in a congregation of 2000 but at that moment of time it is just me and God.
The worship team is there to lead us into worship, they are not there to perform like some kind of Sunday spiritual show. I know the team at my church would be appalled if that was the case.
Does everyone sing with gusto at my church? No. Some seem to mouth the words, others stand quietly. I know they know the words, they come every week. Does that mean they are not worshiping? Of course not, worship comes from the heart. Who am I to say they are not communicating quietly with God. Just because someone sings with gusting does not mean they are worshiping, they may just like to sing.
Worship is not a question of contemporary songs or old hymns, worship team or one man band. True worship comes from a thankful heart, from one who knows God’S grace in their lives. Perhaps those who do not enter into worship whether quietly or verbally, the ones who just stand and stare, perhaps they haven’t yet experienced God’S love, forgiveness and grace in their lives.
Here’s my two cents, from the perspective of effective worship leadership: http://wp.me/p1BeU8-6BE
While most of today’s media does train us away from action or participation. The truth of the matter is that you have recognised a problem that is not on the stage, but in your heart. you have recognised your failure to participate but chosen to blame the church rather then step up and participate.
“Sound” advice from St Paul (Col. 3:16; Eph. 5:18, 19) Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs > Teaching and admonishing one another = The Word of Christ will dwell in us richly > Singing and making melody in our hearts = Being Filled with the Spirit > Jesus said True Worshippers MUST worship in Spirit and in Truth > Pastors should rethink how they are leading the people to worship > My Opinion on the leading of worship is that “less is more” > Do away with the Bands performing concerts > instead have the people sing antiphonally (to one another) > and try it with no instruments >>>>>>> Let the Truth ring in our hearts as we sing > Let us Hear the Spirit speak as we praise!!!
The reason they don’t sing has little to do with the choice of music or even the style. It is all about the lack of true joy in the life of those members. We have people in our church who cannot sing yet they speak the words softly as the rest sing. It is a time of testimony and praise that none of us should pass up.
We are thinking of other things not the Lord.Just open your heart you will sing .Think only of him ,and his kindness. You will sing an cry.
When the Worship leader brings out the hymns, participation increases dramatically.! Who decided that hymns were not “worship”!!?
My thoughts exactly!!! Thank you for putting it into words. I bet thousands of people think the same way we do. It has taken all the joy out of me at song service time. I truly miss hearing and singing the harmony of church music. It used to lift my spirits so high. Now I don’t have that feeling anymore…..and I miss it so terribly!
Surely the whole idea when taking part in worship is the heart attitude, I’ve sung in a worship group for years (over 10) and yes I’ve not always liked every song we’ve chosen, I’ve not always picked it up quickly, but I know that I’m pouring my heart out to God. I’m not at a concert so shouldn’t be looking for entertainment, I’m in God’s house where I’m letting Him know how much he means to me. We can blame the song choices, genres, volume and whatever else we can think of, but if we find it that easy to not sing or worship, then we need to look deeper into ourselves to find what the real problem is ( it won’t be just the music style).
Sometimes it simply resembles a talent show
The issue truly is a heart issue with all of us whether on or off the stage. “Thinking more highly of others than of ourselves” I dont mind a blend at all but what I do mind is the charismatic singers and song leaders who think there is less of the Spirit in those of us who are less needing of hype. So they dont use the less Spirited….outwardly showing type. Ive experienced and observed it. We all run towards our comfort zone so as not to be uncomfortable! I get that, but thats where we are thinking more of is than others. Just because I dont choose to go to a hyped up loud worship service doesnt mean I dont think you can and that you truly worship,but the same goes for me and those like me. So lets give each other the choice and a place where we can all worship and do kot judge…my place is better than yours! Just as the New Testament teaches to some he gave Paul and some he gave another to reach the lost! I do believe less childrens music programs in our churches have been a detrament to our kids and the music classes at school. Its something you can learn to do with the voice God gave you and you dont have to he in a choir , praise team or soloist or even in congregational worship. But use it just between you and the Lord. Many many times the words of hymns and praise songs come to mind in my darkest moments. I can sing those and my Spirit is renewed because many of those songs are words straight from the Word! The enemy doesnt inhabit the praises of His people. So we sing in church for many valid reasons….not to make you miserable but to prepare our hearts to hear the Lord. To ward off the enemy and sing His Word! People arent singing today because of heart issues! Lets get off this issue and praise Him for the many places we can choose from today and ask the Lord to maybe widen our walls we put around ourselves. I love music and how it ministers to me and hopefully always thru our choir I am a member of. I will sing of the mercies of the Lord forever! He wants us to sing! The enemy does not! Who are you following?!
So true. A great article!
Do you get paid to write this because it is crap. I’ve been in contemporary and traditional churches and I’ve seen good and bad participation in both.
1. Loud not blaring is good because most people don’t want to hear themselves sing nor do they want to hear their neighbor who couldn’t carry a note with two handles. The leader needs to above the congregation in volume because HE IS THE LEADER. The majority of people can’t sing well enough to lead anyone, but everyone can sing along however if they think that someone else can hear them they will not do it.
2. Should the choir, worship leader or praise team not practice the songs before Sunday. You mention “well rehearsed” as if it was a bad thing. There is nothing more distracting in a worship service as unprepared leadership, other than hearing my tone deaf pew partner crooning away. Practice is so the leadership can be confident in what they are doing. Try leading without being confident in your competency.
3. When it comes to music choice you need to answer two important but simple questions: Does it exalt the Lord? Does it edify his people? Singing songs that people cannot connect with are a waste of time. I like hymns but I also believe that good biblical song writing didn’t end 200 years ago. We don’t add anything to the Bible but it is perfectly okay to add to our catalogue of praise and worship songs.
Why don’t people sing anymore is about where they are in their wlak with Christ. This argument, or “worship wars” is nothing but a distraction from the real, and much messier issue of being a passionate follower of Christ. We have too many fans of Jesus and not enough followers. Sunday morning worship is where we come together and express what we should have doing all week, celebrate Jesus! There are a lot of elements to that, and frankly I’m fatigued by this whole ridiculous and worn out argument, so I will not get into most of them. When your congregation is in love with God and not just his stuff then they will sing in worship. When your congregation stops trying to make Jesus a Republican who only loves America then they will sing. When your congregation repents of worldliness and compromise then they will sing. When your congregation knows more about the Word than they do their favorite sports team then they will sing. When brokenness, surrender and holiness is lived out everyday then they will sing. When they accept that God loves them and they should enjoy their walk with Him then they will sing.
Bob out!
Dude – seriously – if my church were like that, I wouldn’t go there because inside I would suspect that HE wasn’t there either .. (That having been said, most of the factors you mention periodically show themselves, but none of them prevent me, or most of those around me from being loud and demonstrative in our worship) Now intellectually, I know HE IS there, but I would get little from it – my biggest reason to go to church is that I might worship my LORD with others – if they’re not “into” HIM, I’ll find a congregation that is ..
I agree about 75% with this. We have two different worship teams more or less, one of the leaders likes to sing most of the songs, and the women are his back up. He isn’t the most amazing vocalist, but when he is leading at our church it’s the show all about “him” not Him. I try to show up 15 min late so I catch maybe the last song and that’s it. ALSO, our church is on a slope and when you are in heels and have to stand constantly through 15 to 20 min of music, it kills your back, legs, etc. For goodness sake, let us sit down once in a while! I often find myself glancing around and thinking of the elderly people who must be in absolute pain under the direction to stand during all the songs.
Nothing from the above. People don’t sing in churches cause they ain’t feeling like singing. Maybe it’s due to a hard time, something else troubles them,takes their mind and heart away from the church. Sometimes, the worst to my opinion, cause they see church as an obligation – habbit they have to do and not a place that they long to be there. True some may feel a little embarrassed about their voice,but…i have a mother that she’s totally out of rhythm she can’t understand it, yet she sings as loud as possible to her God in fact she sings all day long. Cause that’s her way to say thanks to God for what He offers her and most important her WA to Sa “I love you” to God!! If people don’t have a relationship and long and love for God, no music, no worship band, no preacher can make them sing along. God bless you all!!!
I agree! With me it seems to be the choice of music. Hardly ever get to sing the hymns I love.
I am bothered by all the people blaming the congregation for not singing, saying they have a heart problem. Maybe some of them do, but to blame every person not singing seems both judgmental and lazy – too lazy to try to figure out why those people are disconnected and how to help them.
I will share my personal experience. The main reason I quit singing in church was because I couldn’t follow the music leader, and that had nothing to do with not having the musical score. The problem was a music leader who abandoned corporate worship for a one man jazz performance. He sang and played the keyboard simultaneously, so there was no one giving the congregation any cues. You never knew when he was going to hold a note extra long or suddenly interject a keyboard solo.
I repeatedly tried talking to the pastor about the need for the congregation to join in the singing and not just toe-tap to the music. Eventually that man was replaced by a quartet. It didn’t solve the problem, they sang their own songs or their version of popular songs. If you didn’t buy their CD’s, you were lost.
I have a heart for Jesus and I want to sing praises to Him, but that is hard if not impossible to do when the music leader/team is obviously putting on a concert to show off their talent. If people aren’t singing in church, maybe its a symptom and not the problem.
Very well said!
Thanks for addressing this issue. It’s a bucket list item for me to restore congregational singing and worship. When the saints assemble and the songs are familiar and meaningful, everyone joins in. I’m playing the organ during a Sovereign Grace Conference in Lexington, Kentucky, and the songs are being sung all over the sanctuary. The YouTube video is forthcoming in messenger.
I agree- especially with choosing hard to sing hymns. Not too loud in our church, but slow and boring songs, and everyone has their nose in the hymnbook
It is a call for those who know what should be and go about to move from the norm of today. There are those who have the expertise and should hear their own message and begin a movement. The song that says take me back then we need persons that are gifted in this area to help, teach and lead us back to the old land mark. I do remember you are the one who taught Praise and worship to a certain church plus taught the pastor how it should be(yes that was me). This was good education for me I thank you and hope you will stop by and bring us back to reality.
I stand in church, lost without music notes with the words on the sheet music… in the hymnal. I feel very uncomfortable not participating in the singing worship, but am at a complete loss because I wasn’t at all the practices with the “worship team”. It would be great to just display the sheet music on the screen projector, instead of just the words… but it has been about 15 years that new fad of worship has been going on.
All these arguments are akin to twitiling the fingers while Rome burns. The church has become more concerned with competing to provide the most dynamic and inspiring worship to draw crowds rather than fulfill its purpose of making disciples and assembling together to be equiped to do the work of the ministry, that of being salt and light. Satan was the most beautiful angel and in charge of worship (read his description). He is perfectly fine with us debating these issues that gets no one saved. Call for a Christian concert or night of music and worship and you can over pack the largest auditorium you can find. Call for a prayer meeting and you only need the smallest closet in any building. Thousands will fall into the pit of hell because they have enjoyed worshiping with today’s man centered music. No conviction no sound doctrine in most of it.
Victor, Yep…Lucifer, Satan…the entity YHWH cast out of heaven…whatever you prefer to call him…was the worship leader among angelic hosts towards YHWH. Isn’t that interesting. He knows all about our worship and praise towards God.
Did an in depth study, as much as I could, on the 4th Commandment, and firmly believe this Lucifer has us collectively worshiping and praising God on the wrong day…one day off! Isn’t it just like Satan to confuse God’s appointed times. Sunday is not the appointed time God wants to collectively meet with His people…it is His Holy Sabbath…the 7th day of the week. This is not a Jewish thing…it is a YHWH thing, from the beginning of creation, for all His people. Let’s begin collectively praising and worshiping God on His Sabbath, and watch His Holy Spirit come down, powerfully ministering, healing, and saving souls. Oh, if only.
(“Lucifer is one of three archangels mentioned in Scripture. He was created by God just as all angels were, but his role was different from the other angelic hosts. Lucifer was referred to as the ‘covering angel.’ Just as the cherubim covered the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, Lucifer was established by God to be the angel of worship, one whose ministry surrounded the heart of heaven. Lucifer was created to dwell eternally in the throne room of heaven, in the very presence of God (Ezekiel 28:14).” Author Unknown.)
Holy strawmen, Batman.
This is a discussion I see both sides of. I was a musician on a worship team for many years and IMO, have found both sides of this discussion can coexist. I play the drums, and my worship leader allowed me much grace, as long as I kept the tempo consistent, and often times would change things up in the upbeat praise songs to try and get people “interested”. Maybe that was a little selfish of me to take upon myself, but it seemed to get people moving about and participating.
Then, when it came time to slow things down, usually the volumes come down too. I also play the bass guitar and when the songs slow down and I’m playing the bass, so does the volume and I’ve heard the people singing.
The last thought I will surmise here, I’ve played with some highly talented musicians,some of which are professional recording artists. Yet, I found in all of their talent, they could not handle their volume being turned down. The last church I played my acoustic drum set in could seat approximately 80 people comfortably. It would have been extremely easy for me to flood that room with drums and crashing cymbals, yet often times both regualrs and visitors alike were astounded by my volume control. Worship teams today need to learn when to crank it up and drive it home, then turn it down and let the spirit finish things…
Bridges Community Church is not how it was described in “Why they Don’t Sing on Sunday”. Everyone sings. Praises God. Worships God. Listens to a great Sermon. Loves each other. Helps each other. And more.
Sometimes my soul needs a song, sung and since they don’t know that, how can I sing? I’ve actually given up on churches all together, but when I used to go, that mess right there, made me feel alienated!! But at my dad’s church, they still let people sing and testify if they want. It’s not a big church and I pray they never change that!!
Fran: It may not sound professional. But spontaneous worship and praise and a testimony will bless more souls than all the polish and pomp promoted by most churches today. That is what I have been saying.
I feel that we will not get where we need to be spiritually till we go back to how it was in the New Testament going house to house.
Acts 20:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
I believe the churches pushing for bigger numbers in a church has hindered them spiritually.
If you didn’t have large churches we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion and it being center around a group of people on stage that are more interested in performance than ministry,
That is the whole thing..
I can really relate to this articlr
as usual, many opinions, few real solutions.
Do you have an opinion or solution?
Check out Reformed Presbyterian Churches and find your voice. Psalm Singing” on YouTube
Wow! Everyone is singing together! This is true worship with words that are truly biblical.
This is a problem when the worship leader doesn’t devote himself to serving the congregation and not just the pastor. A WL should be connecting with the people in the audience. Talking with them before and after service, learning what songs they respond too and playing those often. All of your other points are the people in the congregations fault.
It looks like you have taken your own very limited personal experience and projected it across the whole church. As I look through the comments, I see similar posts of generalities with no specific examples. I played on a worship team for fifteen years, and our congregation was very participatory. Spectator Setup – Somebody has to be up front leading. Before the modern worship team, there was a song leader, a pianist and an organist, and a choir. Who ever sang along with the choir? I never did. Professionalism – Play skillfully with a loud noise. Are we supposed to have tone deaf people with no talent or musical ability leading our music? Blare – Again, with a loud noise. Volume is subjective. For some people it is always too loud. Music Choice – Everything is new the first time you hear it. But then you learn it. Without looking in a hymnal, please post every verse of “Blessed Assurance” here. No fair peeking…..
It always comes back to where the heart of the people are. First of all most Christians do not understand the difference between the different Music Ministries God provided. King David seemed to be one of the only people well linked into each of them, working well in all aspects. Healing and soothing Ministering to afflicted souls as in King Saul’s case. Playing for his own enjoyment as with his playing for animals while attending sheep. Dancing before the Lord, while naked which also revealed the Condition of other peoples hearts, (by the way don’t try this in church these days). But most of all he was always able to shut off the outside influence of others totally ignoring what others thought and just went on to worship God, which to me is the real secret. When you worship, it’s between you and God, don’t worry about what going on around you. Don’t worry about what people think of the music your singing to the Lord. Here’s another great thing when you have obviously been given a gift like Music Don’t worry about what people think of your songs. God gave them to you for a reason, sing them. Some times your Music will heal souls, sometimes heal relationships, sometimes reach the lost. Remember it’s always for a reason. We may not see it always but “cast your bread apron the water.” I expect soon hearts will change and a new things will happen, not all are worshiping currently but that changes with peoples hearts Keep On Keeping ON!
I have only seen this once, But at a church I recently attended the music was on the wall with the words. That was very good and welcomed
Really people. Went to a church recently because my granddaughter wanted to go, and did not want to go alone. It was one of the more modern churches in town. The message was good, but the words got lost in the music. I wasn’t sure if I was at church, or at a rock concert. The message was totally lost in the preaching because of the rock music in the background. When we left, I had a migraine. However, when I went to my own church, there was an absence of congregational singing. Sometimes with all the orchestra, the big screen, and hymnals that are never used I had a feeling of the Holy Spirit being stifled. I go to church, and feel like the people are singing all the right words, but they have no joy in what they are singing. When you go to church, and in everyday life there should be joy in what God has done for us. A church service should fill you with joy.
Everytime I attend my church Grace chapel of the coast I sing my heart out and give my Jesus everything I have.
We all sing at our church at least most do
John Wesley’s Instructions for Singing he included in a hymnal he and his brother Charles published in 1761. I’m sure many here have heard these before. I’m going to add some comments interspersed with the instructions.
1) Learn these Tunes before you learn any others ….
John and Charles Wesley spent quite some time selecting the songs and there were apparently many reasons for encouraging members to limit themselves to the provided hymns. One reason was so that more of the congregation would come to know the same set of core songs and would then be better able to join in singing together. Seems many comments have complained about too many new songs being introduced to quickly – maybe there is something to that.
2) Sing them exactly as they are printed here without altering or mending them at all …
Not sure about this one. But I think the idea was for unity. As I understand how things were in the 18th century; many singers liked to ad-lib; and this distracted from unified singing. Making up your own thing in the midst of the singing generally doesn’t help to unify people.
3) Sing ALL. See that you join with the congregation as frequently as you can …
EVERYONE should sing if they are physically able. Not because you’re trained, not because you are especially talented, but because you seek to worship your God.
4) Sing lustily and with a good courage. Beware of singing as if you were half dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength …
Singing is an outward expression of emotions in a unified way. There is an old expression in my family: if you can’t sing good; Sing LOUD. Your singing should demonstrate your love of Jesus, your confidence in Him. Sing like you mean what you’re singing. REALLY mean it.
5) Sing modestly. Do not bawl, so as to be heard above or distinct from the rest of the congregation, that you may not destroy the harmony …
LOOK AT MEEEEE! LISTEN TO MEEEE! Those sentiments should not be present in Christians who are worshiping God.
6) Sing in Time. Whatever time is sung, be sure to keep with it. Do not run before nor stay behind it … and take care not to sing too slow…
All too often a joyful song becomes a dirge. This ought not to be so.
7) Above all sing spiritually. Have an eye to God in every word you sing. Aim at pleasing Him more than yourself or any other creature.”
This one stands by itself. Many comments to this Blog have stated that the point of worship is to Worship Him. That’s true. But that isn’t the only purpose. When you read the verses about singing, we are to sing to one another. It is a collective action and it is directed both to God and to each other. We are to encourage one another. We are to admonish one another. When we sing, we express through song God’s truth, and our love of God and our love of that truth. But we are singing to each other. Singing of our love for God to each other is very powerful. Very powerful indeed.
Jim: Very Good thoughts. I had read these years about the Wesleys..
Allow me to add one thing . “3) Sing ALL. See that you join with the congregation as frequently as you can …” I always took this quote to mean sing the whole song, because song writers did write there songs, some like a ballad, with a message being delivered in the lyrics of the songs.
Skipping verses did and could take away from the complete message of the song.
Very good comments.
Thank you.
Go to a traditional service then …. it’s banged out on the organ or piano. No one would dare raise their hands to the Lord to praise him cause someone might see!
I love all worship! There are plenty of churches with different worship styles find the one that suits you best ….where you can praise worship and SING !!
We clapped our hands and raised our hands in praise many times with just a piano and organ.
It was just a matter of pride why the hands were not raised.
Try worshipping with the churches of Christ–the whole congregation is a choir!!!
Winnie and I agree with this whole concept whereas with a real Hymn sing worship is in participation with the music with words that exhalt and are fulfilled by true musical progression not ending with mindless illogical unstructured finishing chords. It is almost impossible to repetitously harmonize and one cannot hear themselves anyway. We often just move reading lips along with the leader without singing, it just looks good!!!
My hubby and I used to be on a worship team at the church we attended for years. We were “let go” when someone decided that the team needed to portray a certain image; that of beautiful people. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think we needed to wear a paper bag over our heads or anything, but we weren’t the skinny people they only wanted to allow on the platform. We did our best to become invisible in order to facilitate real worship. It was never our intention to become the main attraction. But I guess being middle aged AND overweight was just too much for the leadership to bear. We were dropped like a hot potato. I think this may be some of the reason we’ve simply checked out of church altogether since.
I understand where you are coming from.
Itching years and Pride is in the church. The Bible say a proud look is something he hates. Removing somebody because they don’t you size mold is a proud look.
Hello Kristi; I am very sorry to hear that you and your husband were treated with such callous disrespect. So you have checked out of church. Thom has a whole blog section on just that topic alone.
This where the whole thing gets stupid really; we are there as musicians to do a job with the talents that God has given us.
It is not meant to be a fashion or image show, our musical abilities as used in God’s service is really what it is about.
That church was simply not worthy of your attendance.
Hymns. The time tested traditional hymns are what we miss. Try worship singing these and you will hear more praise!
Seeing the words is not enough ! If I don’t know the music I don’t sing. Singing is my best way to worship and praise my Lord. If I can’t sing and worship my Lord there isn’t much difference between the church service and the church service at home on tv.
You should try a church of Christ near you! We still sing congregationally and even those with the worst voices are welcomed to bellow in praise to the Almighty!
You are so right!!
I go to two churches – one near where I live that I attend regularly, and one in my parents’ hometown that they attend, that I also attend when I’m home for a weekend. (I should note I don’t at all feel obligated to attend church with them when I’m at home – it’s a church that, were I living in my hometown again, I wouldn’t hesitate to attend myself.) One church has a band that chooses mainly Hillsong and Passion Band music and the like, and every member is focused on leading worship and NOT being a distraction. The other mixes popular hits in with the Hillsong-type music and an occasional old standby, with several singers who front for them. (By comparison, their drummer is near the back of the stage in one of those Plexiglas cages, and they have several other background musicians who play guitar and keyboards.) The lead singer gets into it, and I won’t question her passion for worship, but her bouncing around quickly gets to the point where she is absolutely a distraction. You can probably guess which of the two leads me to participating in worship, and which one I stand and stare at for 10 minutes waiting for them to finish playing.
I will say without a shred of doubt that it comes down to where the heart of the band happens to be. If they’re focused on putting on a show and making it about them, by all means the faithful in the pews WILL take themselves out of the worship experience, and I won’t blame them for it.
Me too! My church in Philly still sings hymns. I have not found a home here in Orlando where I can participate that way. It makes me sad..and doesn’t feed my spirit. One of the many reasons I don’t go anymore. Well said!
Also, the use of hymnals and singing hymns does assist in learning music. I can’t read it per se but I know when notes go up or down as well as bass clef and treble clef and middle C. I also had reading and reading comprehension reinforced by singing hymns. There is so much from the “traditional” church that helped children learn and grow (pageants, responsive readings, leading prayer, sharing the scripture at church service, ushering, etc etc etc) that no longer seems to happen. It’s sad.
Makes sense.
Maybe you should come to Mosaic in Hollywood. Sooooo power-filled and awesome!
I wish there was a way to put the notes on the screen along with the words. I can’t read music per se, but it is Sooo helpful to see if the next part goes up or down or whatever in an unfamiliar song.
It’ s not that people don’t want to sing. A lot of times once the band starts you either haven’t heard the song before or you aren’t done with your coffee yet. Maybe had an argument on the way to church, running late, and just trying to gather your thoughts.
I find myself distracted by everything going on around me and start day dreaming about where to eat lunch or other things like football, baseball, etc. What works for me is a worship leader that takes the time to explain a song and why we’re singing it. This brings me to. My mind is now focused on the song. In addition my thoughts are about the lyrics. Then is when my worship starts. My focus is on God. And if you really want people to participate and sing praises to God, to get that awesome chill down their back, and feel the Holy Spirit, then cut the music in the middle of the chorus and sing. Everyone will join in. Songs like the Revelation song. Go acoustic, unplugged, whatever it takes. I love hearing a great performance from the worship team and it sounds beautiful. But I really get to worship when I have the opportunity to participate. Just my honest opinion. Hope this helps anyone looking for answers.
Matthew 15:8 “These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.” AND Luke 19:40 “”I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”…so, the real reason why people don’t sing is because they are not worshiping from the HEART. It has nothing to do with the music, it has to do with the condition of the heart. If people will not worship, then the very stones will cry out…nothing to do with the music. If a person wants to worship, but feels “odd” in a church because the people there don’t worship, then that person should join a congregation where the people will shout and sing their praises to the Lord unhindered…
If Christians don’t sing the traditional Christmas carols in church, who will sing them? We want our children to learn them. Hymns connect us in musical commonality with Christians around the world. We want to keep that connection. Besides tradition there is doctrine, harmony, history, poetry, and Scripture, not always found in the top ten on contemporary Christian radio.
Wow. This article is erroneously putting all the blame on those who are actually making an effort to serve the congregation through worship. It is completely blaming the context in which congregants find themselves rather than the actual congregants who don’t or are not bothered about worshiping. The reason people are passive/distracted is because they are lukewarm (remember the CHURCH of Laodicea?).
The reason they are lukewarm is either because they have not had yet a genuine experience of repentance/salvation (or have made fully sense of it) – that is why the Bible urges to continue to work out (gain a greater understanding of) our own Salvation and what being saved from eternal death though grace truly means) or have forgotten their first love.
Overall, I think any kind of finger-pointing is wrong, but if I were to ascribe the real reason for such lack of thankfulness I would use the following verse: Isaiah 29:13: Then the Lord said, “Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote. Many people show up out of lip service (some literally and those that don’t move their lips, they think that just sitting among the congregation is enough “dues” to the Lord for forthcoming week) and out of tradition. Our pastor, even warned the congregation on Sunday that just showing up on Sun is by a long way not enough if we are to experience the fullness of life in Christ.
I urge all congregants to examine their own hearts and their passion/motivation on why they do not feel like worshiping in spirit and in truth. I surely did that this Sunday and I was not happy with what I discovered, but I know that He will continue to complete the work He has begun in me (as long as I don’t find excuses that ascribe blame on others or situations as this article did).
I have read several comments and I think there is an important point missing in it all. What is your attitude when you enter into Church to worship? How is your Heart? Why are you there? WHO are you there to please? The music is just music, the word is just the word, the band is just a band, unless your desired result is the worship and glorifying of God. It seems to me, that if you go into Church with a sincere desire to worship God, the type of music being sung is irrelevant. I enjoy hymns, I enjoy Contemporary Music, I enjoy singing, and I enjoy singing with my heart as I just listen and absorb what is being said/sung. However, if I go into a service thinking, “this music is crap and I don’t like it” WHO am I worshiping?
Grace to you all!
Contemporary services Have killed congregational singing
I have been singing in my church since I was in high school. I am now 56. My daughter has been singing since she was in high school. We are not professional. The congregation sings with us. We are not performing and not cheesy. I love praying through song. Be prayful not judgemental. Have a happy day.
This is so true, and against scripture!!
How many young really know the old songs where everyone sang praise. Old rugged cross, amazing grace, etc.
Take the instruments away, use your voices everyone. And if your friend in the pew in front of you sings out of key! Praise God!! He doesn’t care!
My parents don’t sing because the song lyrics are written on the “big” screen without the notes. They want to use the hymnal so they know the note to sing. If it’s an old one that had been around for years like amazing grace they are good, but all the new praise and worship songs they don’t know, they just stand and stare.
Happy New Year to all. Very interesting and thoughtful insight here. As a musician( piano and guitar) that is and has played with many national artists and in many churches of all demnominations here is the real question: When does the line between worship and entertainment becomes too blurry. Many of the contemporary songs are set up in more of a “pop” format…wonderful songs but not “choral” friendly. That is they aren’t set up for a group setting. Throw in the random instrument solo and clearly your congregation is lost in the song. My current group( piano/keyboard/drums/bass/guitar/ 5 singers) is fairly new to this church. We are getting rave reviews and people love the music and songs we are playing. Pushing those songs out to the congregation to sing is a different matter. I don’t think there is a wrong or right answer here. The important thing to me is that it remains a “WORSHIP” service. I think if you focus on that aspect you will be fine.
Perhaps you need a new church?
Another issue is that the words, and only the words, to the songs are up on a screen…no musicical notes to sing parts.
Our church has almost completely left the good ol music from the past and gone to the same 7 lines, sung 11 times
stuff! 😠 I miss songs like: Amazing Grace, The Old Rugged Croas, Just As I Am, etc…😢 Those were heart felt songs worthy of even my out of tune voice!
One other thing that hasn’t really been brought up: many songs and hymns are in too high of a range for people to comfortably sing along. I know at my church, the songs in the hymnals are always in a soprano range. I’m an alto. Even friends who are 2nd sopranos have commented that the melodies go way too high for most people to sing comfortably. I also think that when the music up in front gets a little too “professional, the people in the pews feel “unworthy” to sing along. And sometimes the organist is so intent on providing such a unique and interesting accompaniment that people who DO want to sing harmony to the old hymns can’t because the “unique” accompaniment doesn’t go with the harmony, and we end up sounding off-key to ourselves.
“The only voices I actually heard were those on stage with microphones.”
Well, there’s your problem. You’ve replaced the altar with a stage. Sad.
I do get tired of this conversation sometimes. If you used to sing hymns and you still love hymns, go to a church that sings hymns, If you love contemporary worship – go to that church! This argument about why people don’t sing at church always jumps directly to hymns vs. contemporary worship. That is a whole different argument. I worked with a pastor once who constantly chose hymns that nobody knew because they fit his message or made some other statement. In those days we had a chancel choir, organ, hymnals and people read music. But when these unfamiliar hymns came out, were sung one time and put away, I guarantee you the congregation did not sing, nor were they moved in any other way (except for the boredom that has driven so many people away from the church). And at that church the organist would pull out all the stops for a final verse, shaking the rafters and causing the little children to wail. She would find some alternate harmonization of a hymn that barely resembled the hymn itself and it got to the point that everybody had little choice but to cover their ears and blankly stare at the oblivious musician at the organ. When she was done she beamed with pride. Of course, no one applauded because that would be inappropriate. My point being that all the problems pointed out in this article can be equally true for any type of worship. The saddest part about the whole thing is that people are so self-serving, they have to have it their own way, and they’re oblivious to the needs and wants of others even when it comes to praising God. Good luck finding the church that meets all of your little requirements so you can go home happy every Sunday. And God help that church. How about a little servant’s heart? Maybe finding ways to encourage others? Experience new things? Do your part to make sure the church of tomorrow has people sitting in the pews? Or maybe just practice keeping your mouth shut once in a while and understand that maybe you don’t have all the answers!
The reason people don’t sing (and I believe this is the only reason) is that the songs aren’t familiar. If you sing hymns, sing hymns people know (I could show you hundreds of hymns from hymnals that I guarantee you congregation will have never heard). If you’re going to sing contemporary Christian music – then make the majority of your choices songs that people know and repeat them often. It’s the repetition of singing Amazing Grace or How Great Thou Art that makes people sing out – they know those songs! At my church the congregation knows the songs we sing – we are constantly bringing in new songs, but maybe only one a month, and when we do sing new songs, we sing them until people know them. We also don’t get on our high horse about not singing top 40 Christian stuff – Sing what people know, and they will sing with you! Karaoke wouldn’t be particularly popular if the hosts decided that every third song had to be “new and fresh” or if they decided that they would write their own music because the music out there is “uninspired”.
We are set up with a full band – drums, electric guitars, hymns, etc. and we rock the place every Sunday morning. The “Spectator setup, professionalism, and volume” are what makes things work. And we’re a Presbyterian Church with a lot of grey hairs mixed in with young families and everybody sings!
Bottom Line – if you want people to sing, sing what they know. Take a look at what other churches are singing, look at the CCLI list, listen to the radio, take a look at the top 50 hymns of all time list and choose from there. That way, even if people are coming from another church they are likely to be familiar with at least some of the music.
Other than that, I don’t really have an opinion. 🙂
Don: I don’t think it is so much about the style of music. It is the aspect of newer people coming into a church, whether it be a new pastor or worship leader. and changing things and pushing the older things out the door.
It is not right to tell people in a church where they may have been going for years, because you want to change things such as the music, to go attend a church where they sing your style. or whatever.
So many have this going on.
But what do you do when you don’t have a church in your area who does not sing the old hymns?
Where do you go?
Somebody answer that.
Are all pastors and music leader contemporary?
Some churches have two services Why? We can’t agree? We are not in unity?
Whom sews discord? What is causing the discord? Who is the instigator of the discord? Think about these question physically and spiritually.
Proverbs 6:16-21King James Version (KJV)
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
20 My son, keep thy father’s commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
21 Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.
Why are we not obeying this scripture.? Where is the discord? Why the Discord?
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Thanks for your comment Scott –
You’re right, nobody has a right to try to change things and push old things out the door. Martin Luther should have kept his mouth shut, Calvin should have stuck with the Catholic church, Martin Luther King should have taken his place in the back of the bus. The world changes – and sometimes it’s for the better. I’m 57 years old and my father was part of the “greatest generation”. It seems that most of the concept of history with many in that group starts and ends with themselves. For example, “In the Garden” was considered nothing but raw sentimentality when it was first being sung in churches, now it holds it’s place as one of those “great old hymns.”
I love the hymns, I grew up singing them and I learned to read music because of them. My kids have learned the hymns too, but they grew up singing contemporary worship and learned to sing, and play the guitar and bass because of them. I imagine someday their generation will complain that we don’t sing Chris Tomlin songs any more. If that happens, my hope for them is that – especially as they grow older – they understand that the church is not there just to meet their every need. Their years of attendance, giving and faithfulness to God has not given them some right to stop time and insist everybody stop with them.
I love that verse in Corinthians you shared and believe it can be applied equally to those who are resisting change as to those who are pushing it. “Speaking the same thing” doesn’t mean keep speaking the same old thing. (Actually I have always assumed that this scripture refers more to the unchanging truth of the gospel than to worship styles). Most contemporary worship – including what we hear on the radio – does include the hymns and reaches out to multi-generational congregations. If there are divisions in our churches because the “greatest generation” is afraid of change – then I think the onus lies on THEM to soften their hearts and embrace a very real and effective way to reach new people for Christ.
We have several churches in our town that sing nothing but hymns and grumble anytime anybody so much as brings a guitar to the front of the church. They hire new pastors and worship leaders because they don’t see any young people at their church – but they resist if anything is done to attract young people. Unfortunately, we are watching them close their doors one by one. Fifty years from now they will not be in existence. We certainly have people at our church who would love to sing more hymns, but not at the cost of losing the next generations of Christ-followers. I’ve considered creating a hymn service just for them, but have determined that most of them would not attend – too may old people! 🙂
So, to answer you question about the person who can’t find a church that sings old hymns (though I doubt that is often the case) – I would say it’s time to set aside your self-centeredness, you have no special right to pick the songs. In the big picture of Biblical history there is no difference between Gregorian Chant, Handel’s Messiah, How Great Thou Art, or Oceans – they all praise God in a way that is and was relevant to their generation and often stand the test of time for future generations. At this point in our lives have we not learned to approach the world with more of a servant’s heart? Haven’t we discovered how badly things can get messed up when we try to control everything? Younger generations may not understand this yet – but shouldn’t we?
Other than that, I really don’t have an opinion.
Don
1 Corinthians 10:24
Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
Luke 22:24-30
And there arose also a dispute among them as to which one of them was regarded to be greatest. And He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who have authority over them are called ‘Benefactors.’ “But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant.
“For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at the table? But I am among you as the one who serves. “You are those who have stood by Me in My trials; and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
I didn’t say we couldn’t change the things that were wrong>
What Martin Luther done was expose false doctrine, but he didn’t run the people out of the churches by force. He just attended somewhere else. He didn’t stay in the Catholic church, so it was for Calvin.
Why do not the people who are wanting a change in the music, start a new assembly of people instead of taking an established assembly of worshippers and making them change?
On radio I have the choice to turn the radio of and on to hear what I want to hear, But not in church.
The Bible says what it says and let’s take it as it says and not to try to interpret it or explained it a different way .. Some scripture doesn’t need interpreting top understand..
God wants unity in our lives, between believers and no discord.
If the people get a new pastor and they do not to change. It is there prerogative. The pastor and parishioners can come to an agreement . If they want there church to die, there is nothing wrong with that. People met in houses long ago. When the person died they had to find another house. That is the way the church started. I feel like it would be better in a smaller setting and there wouldn’t be as much confusion. and discord?
You quoted the following verse.
1 Corinthians 10:24
Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
But isn’t this a two way street. Both neighbors, if they are Saints, should seek each other’s good.
I’m not twisting, just applying logic.
Jeremiah 6:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the Lord.
16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
Whose heart is too soffen the young or the elders. SEEK THE OLD PATHS
You clearly are a man of great wisdom. Becoming servants and “as a child” is exactly what all those people who disagree with us should do, right? That scripture certainly doesn’t apply to us who seek the old paths. However, If your idea of unity is to join together as one and watch as the church dies, I think I’ll pass.
Amen to all the above! Worship should be a participatory event rather than a spectator sport!
I was almost drawn in to completely agreeing with much of what this article stated and yet while I don’t fully disagree with many of the points made, I pause to ask a couple of questions.
1. What is the purpose of the article?
I mean aside from the writer and those who decided to respond, expressing their feelings and opinions, how do we know why any of the people of his church and any other church he’s visited don’t seem to involve themselves in corporate worship? (Singing)
The article might have made a greater impact on me had it included actual commentary from people in his church addressing the very topic itself. But it didn’t.
Anyway, worship to me, should always be individual, personal, purposeful and intentional. It should not ever be totally or even partially dependent upon what others are or are not doing around me, corporately.
Jesus himself instructs us to “Love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, soul and mind”. In other words, whatever setting I’m in, I should be prepared, or better yet, anxious to express my love toward God no matter what. That pure expression serves as a testimony and witness to others as to what my love for God looks like, and for what the Bible says my worship should resemble as stated in Psalms 47:1, “O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph”. Or again in verses 6-7, “Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.(7) For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
Worship, whether corporate or individual should not be a show for others and neither should it be THE inspiration for others to join in, but a response in obedience to the command for us to show our love and respect toward God with all that we have in us.
If, we individually, while in a corporate setting, take time out to engage in this type of worship, when and if we decide to open our eyes and look around, we might be pleasantly surprised to see who else joined in, in agreement with us to participate.
Sadly, this sounds like the church that I used to attend religiously (pun intended), but now hardly attend. I will admit, when I first attended the church, I was awed by the spectacle of the performance and the lights. It was like nothing that I had ever seen before in a church, but I quickly became disillusioned with it. It was like attending a rock concert every week. They would always play contemporary Christian music that you hear on the radio every day and not true worship music. They would even constantly play the music that they wrote themselves just to promote the release of their new CD. It was exactly like everything described in the article. One of the previous churches that I attended (it folded), the worship music was so simple and it was true worship music, that everyone sang as loud as they could, and you could really feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in the church and in you! I didn’t feel that in this church. 😦 When I asked the worship leader to play a song that I knew everyone would feel, he completely ignored me like I didn’t even exist! Although this isn’t the only reason why I quit going to this church on a regular basis, it is one of the bigger reasons. I just don’t feel the presence of the Holy Spirit when I’m there. Please pray for me that I can find the right church where I can truly feel the presence of the Holy Spirit and the love of Jesus, and that my heart may one again be full of joy?
So much has been said here, and so much blame and excuses have been thrown around as well as many people directing their responses at JD which honestly as Christians I believe e should refrain from. Yes, he made a statement, that was his opinion, but just that, his opinion, not something to be attacked for personally. If you have an issue with what he OR anyone else has said here then address it, not the person.
I have grown up in church, practically a PK. Our first church was a United one. We sand straight from our hymnals and loved it, they would ask for requests and always I would want ‘Oil In My Lamp’ but my favourite and one I still sing when I need to be close with God is ‘Just a Closer Walk’.
We moved to a Pentecostal church and that was quite a drastic change for me but we still sang Hymns, only they were shown on an overhead on the wall due to how big the church was. Along with these hymns we sang more contemporary stuff (1980’s stuff), but it was amazing seeing how in touch the people were with God, watching them worship (yes, I watched as a teen learning this new way).
I then joined the choir and it was awesome being part of the leadership, even if you couldn’t read music that didn’t matter because we were a choir, they were songs that we as sections (soprano, alto, tenor, bass) could all follow and thus the congregation could follow… we were all there for one reason, to worship Jesus and even if we sang some more contemporary songs they were always ones the congregation could follow and we always took the time to teach them. If we sang a more difficult song it was as a one time spotlight event. We always wanted everyone to be united.
Unfortunately a new music leader came in and this all changed and first the songs became even more contemporary, to the point where sometimes only 5 certain people sand the whole service even though the whole choir was up there. Then the size of the choir was cut, then there was no choir at all, only those 5 people. During this whole time the songs became more and more mainstream and less and less hymns were being sung. During this we lost many of our senior congregants and eventually people like myself left as there was no heart left in the church, it was all surface.
I went to a Non-congregational church which has been amazing until recent years. The last few years the pastors daughter and son took over as the music leaders. You have to be part of their group to be part of the band and they pretty much only sing songs that people in the band have written. Most of the people they get to lead are usually off key and do the style of singing that is popular now where if you can’t sing you overdo your words and yell into the mic while purposely going even more off key. Along with that as they are singing they will have the word on the wall and even if they had practice before hand they will decide suddenly that they want to sing a different line and leave everyone wondering what they are singing, sometimes this can be a line from a completely different song… and the person in charge of the overhead will have no warning of this (I know as my daughter was the one doing overhead for 3 years). Put together that with repetitive lines and it is very difficult to get into a worshiping place.
The only times the old hymns are pulled out is during communion, this breaks my heart.
So, it is not just people making excuses. Sometimes there are some good reasons for what people here are talking about.
As a PK I have attended many different churches and seen many different things going on and as I don’t have an intimate knowledge of what and why to happenings in other churches I have not commented on them, I have kept it to what I do know.
There is very much a need for the old hymns as well as the contemporary in our worship services just as there is a need for the senior congregants. The senior congregants are there to teach the young and the young are there to inspire, just as the music should be doing for us. God has created it all to edify us and to worship Him.
Read “How to Worship a King” by Zach Neese. Great perspective on worship.
I agree with much of what was said. Having grown up in the church, small and mega, and more recently a part of a home church for the last ten years, I’ve seen those who participate and those who do not. But, I believe congregations would participate more if the music was stopped for some songs, allowing and encouraging the people to be the ones to make that beautiful, congregational music of one, harmonized, voice. Take the focus off of a few (musicians) with extraordinary talent and put it on the body of Christ and I believe you will see, again, those offering extraordinary worship and praise of our Lord. The bottom line is that as long as the body is worshiping and praising God, that is all that matters.
So, could someone show me a scriptural reference that says one of the functions of worship is to teach the worshippers how to read music? I know there is plenty about having skilled leaders – but is that we’re trying to accomplish when we sing God’s praise? To read music? The idea that worship was better when we all were trying to figure out how to sing the alto part confuses me. I learned a lot about music from singing from the hymnal, but my attention rarely landed on the words. I love seeing heads up and hands raised rather than people staring at their hymnals.
I agree with music choice. The churches I go to have changed to all praise music. I miss the classic hymns. I may be going…late 20’ss but I love traditional hymns.
I don’t read music.. I was a back up singer in a praise and worship band for 12 years. I didn’t know harmony for the life of me.. The leaders had a variety of music from hymnal to Hill songs.. And all I can say is we rocked it.. Not because of the style of music. But because of the passion and love for the Lord.. It didn’t matter what song the group sang. When we praise and worshiped. We did it with our hearts and soul’s…pure passion. Sometimes we played a song over and over and over again. Just because the Holy Ghost was moving… So what I see is a lack of interest of the knowledge of who the Lord is. Because praise and worship starts in the heart not the ears…its not about what you hear but what you hold and bring to the Father
Not at my church! The first time I attended about 7 yrs ago..this blew me away how everyone it seemed stood and sang. Some songs we sing without instrument..it’s so beautiful, I pray it’s pleasing to God..as long as our hearts are on Him.
It’s a stage show that gives some congregation to play on their IPad.
Halleluja!! Halleluja. If only they would listen?!
“Video killed the radio star…?” No.
Church bands, “worship leaders”, lighting, sound systems and wanne-be sound technicians killed the pastor and the congregation. Instead of accompanying the masses and helping them, guiding them to come into worship, to bring them to singing, the band became the most important part – dishing up difficult pop, rock and gospel music which were recorded by professional bands and professional singers and musicians. Music which were not written for the congregation – not composed for the less music talented normal folks. That is one reason. There are many more, but I have learn’t that worship leaders, band members and sound technicians are untouchable and unteachable. Interesting that the writer Steven Farrar says a characteristic of an “unleader” is that he/or she is not teachable. So in fact we sit with many Worship Unleaders in the church.
“Worship leader, look around you. Are the people singing? Are you helping them, guiding them to sing… and perhaps how many times with your eyes closed? Or are you more interested in how good the tightness of the band is, how much dB the subwoofers can push, or how “awesome” the experience of the Spirit was during the worship.
I might sound a little sarcastic, but we have a huge problem… some congregations don’t even realise it.
(David Platt who is mentioned below in this article may not have known it…but he was “having church” on The Sabbath…Friday evening begins The Sabbath! Just maybe that is why God mightily blessed his endeavor. Wish churches would test God, and give this a try. People in this thread have been asking for solutions…Let’s try this one. Come on pastors…people are hungry…for The Word!)
The Heresy of Worship. Mark Livingston.com
The great heresy of the church today is that we think we’re in the entertainment business. A.W. Tozer believed this to be true back in the 1950s and 60s. Church members “want to be entertained while they are edified.” He said that in 1962. Tozer grieved, even then, that it was “scarcely possible in most places to get anyone to attend a meeting where the only attraction was God.”*
More recently, David Platt has asked: “What if we take away the cool music and the cushioned chairs? What if the screens are gone and the stage is no longer decorated? What if the air conditioning is off and the comforts are removed? Would His Word still be enough for his people to come together?” (Radical)
Would it be enough?
Tozer got it right: “Heresy of method may be as deadly as heresy of message.”
HALLOWEDNESS, NOT SHALLOWNESS
Like Tozer, we should be concerned that so many people in our churches want to be entertained while they worship. We should be concerned when we no longer recognize the difference between the two. And we should be concerned by the growing belief that adding more entertainment value to worship is necessary for the church to accomplish its mission.
I may stand alone, but it grieves me when I see worship services characterized more by props, performances, and pep rally atmospheres than by any sense of divine sacredness; and hallowedness giving way to shallowness.
This is not about worship styles. The issue is not traditional versus contemporary versus blended worship. It’s not about organ versus worship band. That discussion misses the point completely. This is about the heart and focus and intent of worship. The real issues, for me, are these:
1. Who or what is the spotlight really on?
If the figurative spotlight in our church services is on anyone other than God, it is not worship. If the spotlight shines brighter on human performance than on the gospel of Christ, it is not worship. If anyone other than Jesus is receiving our adulation and applause, it is not God we worship.
2. What message are we communicating?
The message of the church—the message the world needs to hear from us—is not, “Come and have a good time,” “Come and be entertained,” or “Come and find your best life now.”
Tozer said: “Christ calls men to carry a cross; we call them to have fun in His name.”
The message of the church is the message of the cross. Lest we forget, Jesus’ cross was a source of entertainment only for those who mocked Him as He hung on it.
3. How are lives changed?
“But our methods are attracting and winning people!” some will say.
Tozer addressed that sentiment: “Winning them to what? To true discipleship? To cross-carrying? To self-denial? To separation from the world? To crucifixion of the flesh? To holy living? To nobility of character? To a despising of the world’s treasures? To hard self-discipline? To love for God? To total committal to Christ?”
THE WORD DOES THE WORK
David Platt and the church he pastored, The Church at Brook Hills, decided to try to answer the question, “Is His Word still enough for His people to come together?” They stripped away the entertainment value and invited people to come simply to study God’s Word. They called it Secret Church. They set a date—on a Friday night—when they would gather from 6:00 in the evening until midnight, and for six hours they would do nothing but study God’s Word and pray. People came. A thousand people came the first time and it grew from that. Soon, they had to start taking reservations because the church was packed full. Secret Church now draws tens of thousands of people via simulcast in over 50 countries around the world—with no entertainment, no bells and whistles or smoke machines.
Why do they come? Platt explained in an interview: “People are hungry for the Word. There’s really nothing special or creative about it. It’s just the study of the Word …. The Word itself does the work!”
More of the Word. Deeper into the Word. Less of what Tozer called “religious toys and trifles.”
Linda: Most of the people will not accept this> Because They are deceived and do notknow it.
2 Timothy 4:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Think about fables have we heard? Take a look at the next few verses.
1 Timothy 4:1-9 King James Version (KJV)
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
Philippians 4:5-9 King James Version (KJV)
5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
If these scriptures turned you off. You are believing fables.
Not all worship leaders are the same. After reading this article and from a 29 year in ministry worship leader, I must admit it does contain a lot of truth. The ultimate responsibility lies with the Pastors and true Worship Leaders to teach and turn it down a notch. I do firmly believe that excellency should always be a must to our God but without forgetting to involve each individual in worship. We can not stop growth and change of times but I would rather join the ones that can encourage change through a positive venue of teachings than to be one to run away from it because I disagree.
Should it really matter about most of these “reasons” why people don’t sing during worship? I’m the sound guy at my church, I’m 30 years old and don’t like things obnoxiously loud, but I take pride in what I do for Jesus, which includes bringing the volume to a place where people can hear and feel what they need to. I think everyone has a different opinion of what “loud” is to begin with. I’ve been in churches where the sound sucks, sounds dull or too loud, and people still worship. I’ve also been in churches where the sound is awesome, leveled greatly and sounds clear and people still worship. So I am not fully convinced that these reasons are legitimate. I think it’s an issue of your attitude. You can worship God through anything, including what you consider loud-crappy song choice-worship music.
Number one is its my four and no more, second its more about the world than God it’s called new age religion, and the bible teachers that the elders are the teachers not the children, wake up dummies the world has taken over the church.
Whether or not a person sings praises to God during the service is nothing more than an overflow of the heart. If there’s no praise for God in the heart, there will be no praise for God in the service. If there is praise in the heart, there will be an outpouring of praise to God no matter what the setup, the volume, or any other factor.
Or they change the songs so much that you can not learn them. This sounds a lot like why I quit singing in church
In addition to the other things mentioned – I think the high key (sang by 1st tenor WLeaders) is also a factor. Women, especially, end up jumping up and down the octave.
I am middle-aged and a life-long church member- I loved hymns and I love a lot of the contemporary music. I can read music and I sign alto, but not well at all. I can sing Alto if I can see the music. Otherwise, I’m trying to sing melody until it gets too high (almost every song) when I drop an octave and sing with the men for a few words or phrases and then jump back up, and back down, and back up. It is ridiculous. that is something I really miss- singing my PART….
“Hymnody is sweet with the longing after God, the God whom, while the singer seeks, he knows he has already found. “His track I see and I’ll pursue,” sang our forefathers only a short generation ago, but that song is heard no more in the great congregation. How tragic that we in this dark day have had our seeking done for us by our teachers. Everything is made to center upon the initial act of “accepting” Christ (a term, incidentally, which is not found in the Bible) and we are not expected thereafter to crave any further revelation of God to our souls. We have been snared in the coils of a spurious logic which insists that if we have found Him we need no more seek Him. This is set before us as the last word in orthodoxy, and it is taken for granted that no Bible-taught Christian ever believed otherwise. This the whole testimony of the worshipping, seeking, singing Church on that subject is crisply set aside. The experiential heart-theology of a grand army of fragrant saints is rejected in favor of a smug interpretation of Scripture which would certainly have sounded strange to an Augustine, a Rutherford or a Brainerd.
In the midst of this great chill there are some, I rejoice to acknowledge, who will not be content with shallow logic. They will admit the force of the argument, Andy hen turn away with tears to hunt some lonely place and pray, “O God, show me thy glory.” They want to taste, to touch with their hearts, to see with their own inner eyes the wonder that is God.
I want deliberately to encourage this mighty longing after God. The lack of it has brought us to our present low estate. The stiff and wooden quality about our religious lives is a result of our lack of holy desire. Complacency is a deadly foe of all spiritual growth. Acute desire must be present or there will be no manifestation of Christ to His people. He waits to be wanted. Too bad that with many of us He waits so long, so very long, in vain.
Every age has its own characteristics. Right now we are in an age of religious complexity. The simplicity which is in Christ is rarely found among us. In its stead are programs, methods, organizations and a world of nervous activities which occupy time and attention but can never satisfy the longing of the heart. The shallowness of our inner experience, the hollowness of our worship, and that servile imitation of the world which marks our promotional methods all testify that we, in this day, know God only imperfectly, and the peace of God scarcely at all.
If we find God amid all the religious externals we must first determine to find Him, and then proceed in the way of simplicity. Now as always God discovers Himself to “babes” and hides Himself in thick darkness from the wise and the prudent. We must simplify our approach to Him. We must strip down to essentials (and they will be found to be blessedly few). We must put away all effort to impress, and come with the guileless candid of childhood. If we do this, without doubt God will quickly respond”
A.W. Tozer “The Pursuit of God” 1948
Oh my….I have just read over 100 comments and there are over a thousand more to go. 🙂 When I first read the article I was chomping at the bit to respond, but didn’t find time. Now, after reading all the comments, I feel my viewpoint has been expressed so many times–and in more creative ways than I could have managed–that my comments would be superfluous. I would just like to add that I think the visceral responses of some are knee-jerk reactions to having their own opinions challenged. For instance, NO ONE is saying that this is a salvation issue, as several people seemed to lash out about. Also, regarding reading music, NO ONE is saying that if you sing the melody because you don’t read music, you are not a valuable participant in congregational music. The melody is vital! However, all parts and voice types come together to make beautiful music unto the Lord. I agree with Mr. Schultz 100% and was happy to see something like this in print.
It’s because the songs are too contemporary & we don’t know them & the music is too loud! I watch Jimmy Swagger on Sunday morning worship & that’s the way songs should be you can sing along & you get the feeling of the Holy Spirit even from media watching! But then again it’s all about the spirit of God in the presence!!
I do not know of a church who couldn’t be blessed with the kind of music that is sung at Family Worship Center in Baton Rouge, La. You get some of it all, but no smoke and no mirrors. Just true annointed singing and presence of the Holy Ghost.
OR it could be that we are all dreadfully sick of church and the amazing hypocrisy it continues to slip further and further into…. We’re tired and coming and pretending to give a rats behind about the frivolous bs that goes on in most churches and were sick and tired of being loaded with more and more rules when we just watched our sister die of cancer, when our good friend got shot in the face twice by her boyfriend a year ago, when we were molested as a child and go ahead against our better judgement and get pregnant to try to commit suicide, have to be put on an antidepressant, and be “blessed” with an autistic. All this while you sit and worry about the music. See most of you are white washed tombs, Pharisees. You worship money (Dave Ramsey anyone, the Christian poster child of greed), and then get angry when your “God” doesn’t heal our wounds. So keep worrying about the music. I’m sure Jesus loves it when you miss the forest for the trees.
I’m really very sorry that the horrible things you wrote about have happened. One of the purposes of the church is body life and helping to carry one another’s burdens. I sincerely hope you are in or find a nurturing church. This forum is a place for believers to discuss issues. Music is something that has become divisive in the last few years. If the other commenters are like me and my husband, they aren’t talking about this at church or with their fellow churchmembers. Holy Soup gives us a chance to address the problem without being a troublemaker in our own churches. Again, if they’re like us, they’ve expressed their hearts to leadership, but nothing changed. We love our church (the people); we don’t love the music.
It’s not about us, it’s about Him. We should be entering into His presence regardless of the song and whether or not we know it. If one doesn’t know the song, just close your eyes, listen to the words and adore your God! Ps. 146:2: While I live I will praise the Lord; I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.
I for one am VERY turned off by the dictatorship of most worship leaders. I don’t need to be told when to stand, raise my hands or give the proverbial shout offering.
The songs that I typically do not sing are religious in nature (do not paint an accurate picture of God’s true nature of love, mercy, and grace) or they are being sung at a pace that is simply too fast. At other times, there are songs that are just plain stale or sung too often. I for one like variety but if a song is popular in some way, shape, or form, it tends to be sung week after week and service after service.
It would be nice to see the focus return to worshiping God as opposed to the dictatorship and show method.
I think Christians nowadays are more into criticizing worship than worshiping, and this article is a glaring example. Is any music or singing needed at all in order to worship? Isn’t worship from the heart, and primarily personal between a believer and God? Did anyone else notice that this author is criticizing the lack of singing in worship (among other things), and then admits he doesn’t even sing himself during worship in the last paragraph? He then says he’s waiting for that perfect worship environment that “evokes” his worship?! Not positive, but isn’t that hypocrisy? I think once this author finally finds a worship environment, non-“chipper” worship leaders, others properly worshiping and singing around him to his liking, as well as approved music style (and whatever else he lists), God won’t hear a single word. Worship is supposed to be sacred. Are Christians called to criticize and complain about the quality and type of another’s worship? Sounds to me like the ones complaining and criticizing are the problem, not those worshiping however they feel led (singing or not).
I believe this to be true, I attended a “professional “church,they had great choir and lots of great voices, and great preaching. ..
I now attend a church without a choir or great voices but I will tell you the music is tremendous, very worshipful and almost all the congregation joins in the worship .I loved my other church alot I love the church I attend now alot.
People themselves should go to church not expecting others to worship and entertain them..if you trully a spiritual being you need to get in the zone prior to arriving to church so you are ready to worship God…not waiting to be entertained by the band in front of you.. at our church we are encouraged to sing with our hearts not our lips, to truly praise God with our minds and soul..not just be a habitual Sunday event but go to church to give it your all…to trully Praise And Worship God. GOD bless 🙂
The nail has been hit on the head I this article.
Worship the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul with all your mind. Nothing can stop a heart that is really focused on God no matter how negative is the situation. You dont need to reason out things why you dont sing. Its because of you.
I would have to disagree with this author. As I look around my church every weekend, I see plenty of people raising their hands and voices in worship. Our music is loud, professionally done, contemporary and we are prompted to stand and worship at the beginning. I’m loud when I sing so I like the fact that the person in front of me may not be able to hear me. Whether or not someone sings during worship has more to do with the attitude of the person and not the environment of the church. If you’ve ever been to a concert, you’ll see plenty of people standing and singing to loud, professional music that is usually new and done with a focus on the singer and not the people. But those people singing are into the music and the artist.
I believe it is up to the church to provide us an opportunity to worship. It’s up to us to participate in that experience.
OK everyone, please note that Thom’s original post is about SINGING (or not singing) in church.
Maybe everyone (that is, everyone) needs to step back and take a serious look at what makes a song singable. Stop being so concerned with what’s cool/traditional/edgy/sophisticated/boring and think, just for a little while, think about singability.
For the next 5 minutes, forget about your favorite (or least favorite) style, and focus on what makes a song singable by a group of amateurs. Think about songs you sing/hum to yourself;
songs that are memorable, songs that have deep meaning to you. Also think about songs you hear groups of people sing. Do a bit of analysis: what makes those songs singable? What makes those
songs/sounds “work” with groups?
NOTE: Singability goes beyond attitude. Even those with the best of worshipful/joyous/grateful attitudes will be unable to sing Mozart’s “Queen of the Night” aria (set to lyrics appropriate for Sunday AM, of course).
Excellent points!
I love the story of Paul and Sials. They were tortured, flogged, shackled beaten and mocked. I think of these grown men standing in incredible pain, brokenness, shackled at the feet. I can picture blood streaming down their broken bodies, the stench of standing in their own mess and yet in the midst of this incredible torture they worshipped our living God. They stood weak and weary and praised our God. They didn’t look around for a worship pastor or a great singer or the perfect song. They, in the midst of pain and terrible circumstance they worshipped and praised and gave all deserving glory to our perfect God.
When I read an article like this my heart breaks. It breaks because there is a problem with the heart of the worshipper. How dare we place restrictions on glorifying Jesus because we our flesh is unhappy with a song, a pastor, a leader. How dare we choose to withhold glory to our precious savior because we are unsatisfied with a set list or a new song that pops up. I can only speak for myself and my life has drastically changed. I have personally experienced our living God. When a person has a supernatural experience with Jesus their eyes become so open to Christ. A hunger and thirst overcomes a person that can’t be satisfied with anything but more of God. God gave me a personal invitation that invitation came in Matthew 16:24 Jesus said to His disciples, whoever wants to be my disciple must DENY themselves and take up their cross and FOLLOW ME. There is no verse in the Bible that says if you find time, a great song or a good moment, if you are comfortable and it gives you a good feeling go head and worship me. I am so incredibly thankful for a church home that is passionately seeking more and more of a personal relationship with Jesus together. If the walls were burned down the lights burned out and there was no instruments we would stand side by side in passionate praise glorifying our God who came in the most humble way to show us how to live while relying fully on His Holy Spirit. Worship is lifestyle a choice to follow Jesus not a song on a Sunday. I pray for the heart of the church body, we must seek to be in one accord just as the apostles prayed in one in the upper room. We must stop our childish way in comfort looking to satisfy our flesh and get out of the boat, keep our eyes fully on the one who we worship! It’s time for the true worshipper to rise in spirit and in truth. Not song preference or comfy satisfying environment.
Hello. Yes Doug makes a good point, Singing or not Singing. A lot of the comments have gotten off the point somewhat.
We played for the combined 9.00 am Anglican service this Sunday and did everything from modern driving rhythm style songs to the old chestnut the “Old Rugged Cross”.
Everyone joined in with great gusto, no problems there.
We have been with this church community for over 5 years now (since moving to our country home) and have introduced newer styles of music along with the older classic styled hymns.
Initially there was some reticence with only a few people but they soon came to tell how much they liked our style of playing.
We play Mandolins, Lutes, Guitars, Bouzoukis and what not. A more Celtic style. I found that the secret to acceptance is to play a wide cross section of music and play it well. After all we are not “worship leaders/gurus” or attempting to lead people into the presence of God or any of these rather pretentious ideas people attend, We are in God’s presence via the finished work of Christ’s suffering.
We attempt to perform the music in keys that people can sing in and choose material they know whilst introducing newer material at a manageable pace.
Parishioners attend church to receive the Eucharist and meet in communal fellowship with God. They also come to be refreshed from heaven to face another week,
Some one described me as Crass on this blog; well I take that as a compliment. However the invitations just keep coming and we will not be giving up any time soon.
We are just musicians not worship leaders or anything else. Use your talents for God’s glory and people will join in and be blessed.
As an occasional pianist, accompanying worshippers, along with the organist playing the organ, I took great delight in hearing the congregation singing. My, how they loved to sing! And it made my own worship of the Lord much richer, as the voices uplifted in worship outdid the musical instruments. What a blessing were the old hymns sung by those who worship the true Lord! Making harmony together, piano and organ, and people’s voices – lifts one out of the realm of this world into the glorious Kingdom of God, where I believe the angels sing along with us !
Sad to read these responses. Our Church sings from the rafters. We have different choirs. Youth, Men Adult, and Bells. It IS very beautiful. They also are not on the altar. That is God’s
sanctuary. I have been to several other denominations in the past year and find these parishioners sing beautifully as well. Some with instruments on their altar, others to the side. However, everyone singing.
You would have liked the church I visited last Sunday! They had only a piano and clarinet and a choir. I could hear everyone sing. Some country Churches are like this!
I am on a worship team and feel that is one way to praise God. I voluntarily do it for free as I enjoy it. I’m not a professional musician but have played an instrument all my life.
Our worship leader performs every other week and makes it a personal show for that person to “show off.” Even to the point of bringing in professional musicians thus displacing us common folk. Although I cannot verify, I’ve heard talk among them that they get paid to play.
Don’t know about you but the day a church spends money on musicians instead of helping the poor and unfortunate is a day to start looking for a new church. I don’t mind an occasional visiting band and support paying their expenses to visit, but we should not pay people who live locally to play, especially when they do not attend the church when they are not playing. Monies to the church should support running the church then the flock of Jesus who need help. Thoughts?
I cannot find mention of worship leaders in any of the NT churches. Nor do I see where any of them used or were instructed to use an instrument of any kind other than the vocal cords. Why does man think he knows better than God Himself, or do we believe He was unable to reveal what exactly He desired in worship.
Not to be rude but u obviously have a lack of understanding in this area of the bible the singing aspect falls under praise in the bible. It talks about praising God 7 different ways. 1 Singing and playing an instrument, 2 dancing, 3 lifting of hands, 4 kneeling, 5 giving a sacrifice, 6 shouting and 7 one that encompasses them all!
You also can’t show me where it was discontinued in the New Testament.
It was not a thing from the law or about the law.
It was not a thing about salvation. So the Cross didn’t have anything to do with it.
Jesus while He lived on this earth praised and worshipped God as the other Israelites did in the temple. It was only Jesus’ teaching that caused a commotion..
Do you worship God with a loud noise?
Luke 19:35-40King James Version (KJV)
35 And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.
36 And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
Would you rather have the stones or the lumber in the church praising God if we keep silence.
Psalm 150 is not part of the Law, but it is a commandment. If you fail to keep the commandments You are sinning. And That’s what Jesus knew, He inhabits the Praises of His People
Psalm 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel
Psalm 150 King James Version (KJV)
150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.
How can the stones, trumpet, psaltery, harp, timbrel. stringed instruments, organ, and cymbals praise the Lord? They can’t on their own normally. Would you stay in a room if all of sudden the instruments started playing and sounds came out of the walls and surroundings. You would leave the room.
But the only way most of these instruments can praise God is with the human hands and the only way human hands can do it is when they have breath are alive..
You have breath and I have breath and that has not cease and as I long as I have breath I will praise with everything I can . My voice and instruments.
Now if it is a sin to play an instrument in the church then it is a sin to play or listen to anything that is not a voice. You shouldn’t do anything you couldn’t do in the church.
We should only behave like iron age people, says the person using the internet.
Internet does not change worship and praise. Internet just gives us more information and faster. Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
Hebrews 13:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: WHOSE FAITH FOLLOW , considering the end of their conversation.
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Hebrews 13:7-9 Amplified Bible (AMP)
7 Remember your leaders [for it was they] who brought you the word of God; and consider the result of their conduct [the outcome of their godly lives], and imitate their faith [their conviction that God exists and is the Creator and Ruler of all things, the Provider of eternal salvation through Christ, and imitate their reliance on God with absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness]. 8 Jesus Christ is [eternally changeless, always] the same yesterday and today and forever. 9 Do not be carried away by diverse and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be established and strengthened by grace and not by foods [rules of diet and ritualistic meals], which bring no benefit or spiritual growth to those who observe them.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE IRON AGE.
Instruments in worship did not end with the NT church. Show me in scripture where the Bible says it did. Accounts of worship in the OT using instruments are plentiful. 1 Chronicles 13:8–David and all the Israelites were celebrating with all their might before God, with songs and with harps, lyres, timbrels, cymbals and trumpets.
Hello S. Smith. I am surprised that anyone would need to defend that point in this day and age!!!
I am a musician and a Theological graduate and am now 65 years of age. I have been attending church since I was 10 years of age.
In that time I have witnessed the Baptists horrific agony to eventually allow drums. I’ve seen the Pentecostal’s upgrade from old Country and Western type music to some pretty good “Hillsong” stuff.
I recall visiting a Brethren church down the country road from us. They had a little whole in the wall and someone would beep out the key to the hymn so they could sing without any instruments. The chap behind the wall had a satanic piano and got the note from it then sang or beeped pot the note!!!
I found all this rather amusing at a young age and thought it must be a hell of a job to keep this Jesus happy. He did not like instruments in the church building but allowed them in the hall to keep the young people from getting bored. This presented a rather cantankerous hard to please rather unhappy Jesus to my young mind.
It still surprises me that people still think that they are experts on what God/Jesus likes!!!!!
Sounds a bit rich to me.
I use my talents in both sacred and secular areas and I use them because this is what God has given me.
I too can find no clear theology presented which suggests that Jesus is offended by the playing of musical instruments in a church building as opposed to the church hall?????
Sounds ridiculous at best.
(Exclusive) – music is played for the 15 – 30 crowd (Exclusion) – Hymns need not apply. Music has to be within the last three months and only be sung for three months, anything over 6 months is unacceptable. (Entertainment) Music has to be professional grade, loud, lights,, and celebratory. Any real worship songs need not apply. From a person who has either sang in the church or led worship for the last 50 years. Have equated worshipentertainment to the same as priest during the Middle Ages doing their sermons in Latin. Doesn’t mean anything to the commoner.
I thank God for my church where the life of God is there and people can feel Him and engage in worship. It’s the anointing that’s missing in most churches. The ANOINTING breaks the yoke. Where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty.
Just remember yall .anything that spikes stress lowers your immunesystem in seconds and you might be ushered into Gods´presence to worship, sooner than you would like to.
Many here complain that contemporary songs have too much repetition. OK so here is an old hymn: Give me that old time religion, give that old time religion, give me that old time religion it’s good enough for me. No repetition here. And guess what, that song is one of my favorites. Why?? It is upbeat and easy to remember. But, another one of my favorites is: You are the air I breathe, You are the air I breathe, Your Holy presence living in me. You are my daily bread, You are my daily bread. Your very word, spoken to me. And I, I’m desperate for You. And I, I’m lost without You. Why? It is reverant and prayerful and also easy to remember. One old, one new. Both repetitious. Different styles of music but both praising our Lord and Savior each in their own way. And correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t that what we are commanded to do, praise the Lord, each in our own way??
Believe this thread started on May 21, 2014, with 1,551 comments. I have read them all, and it looks like diversity is anchored in…you are either, or. I live in the Northeast. Familiar with most Protestant doctrines and theologies, from Methodist to AG. Ten years ago, things started to change in the “church” (I highlight the word “church” because it is nowhere in Scripture…It should be translated as the Congregation, or Assembly), I attended for decades, and decided to do some research, and started visiting a variety of churches in the Philly area, Baptist, Independent, Methodist, Evangelical, Pentecostal, etc. Some were very traditional, others contemporary, but the swing was to contemporary. This was around the time Praise Teams took over the spot of an individual song leader.
The more contemporary the style, the more I found: The smell of coffee beans before even entered the door… inside many foyers a Starbucks atmosphere on one side, MacDonald’s on the other. One church had a sign over the door entering the sanctuary, “Be sure your coffee has a lid on it”. Once inside the sanctuary: darkened seating areas…with lights accenting a stage… large overhead screens, often times with verbal advertising on weekly church events. Once the service started: Yes, an upbeat call to worship…everyone standing… music pretty loud and contemporary, not knowing most of the song could rarely enter into singing worship… somewhat of a more immodest attire. I truly understand the desire to reach the unsaved, and especially the youth, but one disturbing thing I saw, more than once…with everyone standing, sanctuary darkened, music loud with a rhythmic beat, standing behind, watching young people, mostly between the ages of 8 and 12, doing explicit sexual dance moves, and this in worship to our Creator. I truly think, within the walls of churches across this nation, young people are confused as to the distinction of what is of Yahweh and what is of the world. I could continue, but want to move on.
The rest of this post is basically for unsettled, traditional Children of God, and especially for those who have already decided to have home worship services. After visiting many, many churches, I could not get a handle on where I was to fit in. My “heart” towards God is perfectly fine, but my spirit did not mesh with what I experienced in several years of church research, and their ministries. Needless to say, I sought the face of God for direction, and began to research who is the true church. I came across a very interesting article entitled, “On This Rock I Will Rebuild My Church”. http://wildbranch.org./teachings/lessons/lesson123.html. (I challenge you to read this 5 part article by Brad Scott.) I then began to read other teachings, some affiliated with this Wildbranch Ministry, but also other ministeries, specifically one called the The Hebriac Roots Movement…not a Messianic Jewish movement, a Hebriac roots movement. All this research caused me to ponder a lot of things regarding established doctrines. Just because you may be AG or Baptist, don’t think you have a handle on correct doctrines.
There may be a Godly reason why a certain group of people today are being “pushed out” of churches they have attend for long periods of time. If we were comfortable in today’s churches, we would still be there…and that just might not be The Heavenly Father’s will. I will quickly bring up two verses using the One New Man Bible, a tremendous translation:
Matthew 7:13-14. “You must immediately enter through the narrow gate: because wide is the gate and broad is the way leading into destruction and many are those who enter through it: how narrow the gate is, and the way that leads to life is constricted, and few are those who find it.” (We have always thought of this scripture as pertaining to the unsaved. Maybe it pertains to within the church.)
Romans 11:5.-8. “Then, just as also in the present time, a remnant has come into being according to the election of grace: and if by grace, it is no longer by means of works because, if it were, grace would no longer be grace. Then what? What Israel is seeking, this it did not obtain, but the election did obtain; and the rest grew callous, just as it has been written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, their eyes to not see and their ears to not hear, until this very day.”
( Webster’s Dictionary defines the word “remnant” this way…”a surviving trace.”)
I pray Yahweh’s blessing, and the leading of the Holy Spirit, on all who are truly seeking to find His ways.
Your article very enlightening/ I will post this link. I appreciate the humble Spirit I perceived.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1506640_10152424150805848_3500412424032695016_n.jpg?oh=901b6139356467bc9d7afc3cf929de35&oe=570231A5
God bless you.
Yes, I couldn’t agree more with your article. I listened to you today on WDCX 99.5 and I wanted to read the whole thing one more time. I say Amen to all of it, unfortunately.
True is though that most of church goers enjoy worship, tunes are likable (Much music style) and lyrics are mostly meaningful so everyone is standing and eventually dancing and in general enjoying themselves. So what’s wrong then? ….well nobody (almost) is singing, participating, declaring, that’s what’s wrong.
I would add probably another aspect of constantly repeating of two lines, it sometimes sounds to me like ‘chanting’ not meaningful worship,….. but it may be only me.
Is there any way to get churches singing again? Proclaiming through songs our beliefs and love? Not until worship leaders shake off their assumed need of being best and ‘hip’ and until they will feel certain in their jobs so they don’t have to perform like perfect professionals but just as tools of God to encourage singing. I’m afrait that this super professionalism is making church more and more in-active on all sides, members feel like they are not up to ‘standard’.
Father, we call on you, please, help us to be participating church. Paul
Thanks Thomas. May I submit that it’s not the environment that should evoke my heartfelt response. It’s my HEART! 🙂 To me, worship is the fruit of a truly submitted heart, not motivated by earthly, performance-based love, but the perfect love of Jesus.
Traditional songs are either missing or unrecognizable.
Agree
You should be soley focused on the Lord and worshiping him. Because if you were, you wouldn’t notice people not singing and or lip singing. Who cares what the worship team chooses to sing and not sing. You are there to worship our savior and learn the word of God.
Why not be greatful you get to go to church “freely” unlike many other Christians who do not have such an easy option.
When God’s people gather together, it is a corporate worship. It is for the purpose of worshiping together…not an individual sport. Everybody doing their own thing, whether sitting, standing, singing, etc…causes confusion of the Assembly who are to be of one Body, one Faith, one Spirit, one Baptism. I am often concerned of the insensitivity of parts of the Body towards the rest of the Body, in corporate worship. Individual worship is essential…done on your own…anytime. But when gathered together…God ordained pastors and worship leaders, to lead! And they will be held accountable for how that has been done.
Congregations in other countries, who are persecuted, have a deep respect and understanding in their gathering together. They are battling things we know not of in this country, so they must be of one mind. I can tell you, not anything goes when they are assembled together.
You must be going to the wrong church then. We don’t have a problem with this at all!
SOOOOO true.
There was a song last Sunday at church that was so unfamiliar, required such a wide octave range to sing, had a ridiculous number of notes that only a natural falsetto could hit, that I just gave up and stopped trying because I was screeching like a 14-year old boy who’s voice was going through puberty.
I understand God desires our worship, regardless of how we sound. Psalm 98:4, “Make a joyful noise unto the Lord”. I’m trying, but there’s nothing joyful in my voice when it sounds like 2 cats fighting because of the song choice. How can I give my best to God when what I’m offering sounds like a gopher choking on a wet squirrel?
Sometimes I think the worship leader purposely picks songs that are difficult for the average person to sing and that no one knows because then he gets to show-off his vocal skills for the rest of us untalented chumps.
Please, there’s nothing wrong with Amazing Grace and How Great Thou Art. Nothing wrong with them at all. The duty of the worship leader is to lead us into worship to God, for God. It’s not Karaoke Battle Sunday.
Don’t mind me, I’m just getting old and cranky.
Hello Scottkeen; you gave me a good laugh!!!
Good comment; old and cranky is good. All the best.
The songs clearly need to be about worship…not the person or the people leading the worship. They need to be about drawing closer to G_d. Having been a part of a MessianicCongregation for some time…that is what I experience. It is NOT a show! My heart grieves for those who miss the mark. You are missing so much!
I am not a talented singer but God enjoys hearing me sing every Sunday standing or sitting! I am happy to sing all the songs and if I’m off key a bit God forgives me!
The author of the article seems really nostalgic about the music which I disagree with, but is on point with his observations with how worship is facilitated with the congregation. I lead worship for a relatively new contemporary service and feel that as the worshippers become comfortable with the music style they will sing. I am very against concert style setups and and believe in great attention to the intensity of volume. Since we don’t use hymnals music has to be repeated more often so the congregation can know the piece, so bringing a new piece every week really throws off everyone.
I think worship leaders need to be mindful about the congregation and constantly facilitate a chance to worship and sing together by paying close attention to their needs.
End rant
I, too, am a musician. I play the piano and sing alto, tenor, second soprano-whatever part is needed. I am not opposed to learning a new song, but one new song a week is quite enough. If you don’t know the song, it is very hard to focus on the Lord when you are focusing totally on learning the song and getting to know the melody. I agree that is where the written music would be very good to see-just like a hymnbook. Even people who don’t really read music know when a note goes up or down when they see it on paper or notes on the screen. But apart from that, the music in the service should reflect the entire congregation-old and young alike. We are to learn from each other. One thing I see happening in churches is that we are not respecting and looking up to the elder adults. Seriously, the ones who are 60 + have had a lot of experiences in life that the younger ones can learn a great deal from. Why don’t we try to honor our senior citizens in our churches today? I’m sad to say this, but I am 61 and feel at times as though my usefulness in church is over. Back to the topic, I love praising the Lord in song! It shouldn’t have to be hard!
Well said. Know of congregations where many extremely talented people are not used in deference to the, dare I say, musical click. One flagship church of a major denomination still has an organ. It just sits there. Out of the thousand plus that attend, there are several tremendous organ players…they are never used. Same things goes for soloists. Something has been lost that will not be regained. So…I look forward to heaven. Heard someone who had a near death experience say he heard a heavenly choir singing in more than four part harmony. Looking forward to that!
Church services naturally gravitate towards spectator event-like formats. Statistically there are people sitting like statues and there are people rolling around on the ground because they are so moved. We all show Gid we love him in many ways. There is no right or wrong way. God gave us free will to choose how we express ourselves and he gives us great latitude regarding how to do it. He simply refers to people “gathering in his name” in the bible. Can we please not turn worshiping style into a debate? Too many third world countries have spent centuries fighting over matters like this and it has destroyed the very notion of fellowship. Let God sort it out PLEASE.
Some of my thoughts here….
Spectator setup – In larger churches, yes; but the reality is the concept of stage and “audience” fundamentally hasn’t changed. I really don’t see this contributing to anyone not singing in the average American church.
Professionalism – Again… in the much larger churches, I would agree. I have been a part of the larger churches and know that the bigger the church, seems to mean the more expert the musician needs to be. Not always, but often. In those larger churches, that may contribute, but I don’t think it’s an impact at smaller churches.
Blare – I think his tone here is, “i don’t like it loud” but that being said…. I know many people don’t sing if they cannot hear themselves. I think in many churches, this can certainly contribute to folks not singing. This being said, there are also many, especially in the younger generations, that don’t want to hear each other or themselves sing. The only place they are willing to sing is at a concert pushing 105db of noise so they DON’T like to hear themselves.
Music choice – This is always a huge challenge. In a culture like ours specifically we have people from almost all music style preferences so you will never make everyone happy with all music options. Again, certainly a big challenge, but one of the parts I think he misses is the heart condition….. As Mark indicates, Key selection also plays a LOT into the music part for sure!
heart condition (not in article) – we have a growing culture that, based on all kinds of things, is an “all about me” culture. If the music isn’t exactly what I want, exactly what I like, exactly how I like it, i’m just not going to participate. I think that issue exists in any church, and is a growing issue. I’m afraid less and less people come to a worship service with a heart of, “i just want to love on God, and submit my heart to Christ”. Without that heart, more and more people will get a perspective of just “watching” and not participating. If you are UNWILLING to sing because you just don’t like the music… maybe there is more going on than just song choice.
As another poster indicates, I think we are also seeing the ramifications of less and less music in schools. We have generations coming up that simply don’t have a culture of singing with each other, choral singing, singing with your family in the evenings around the piano, or guitar….singing around a campfire… more and more people in the younger generations, simply don’t sing together any more.
No easy answer….
Allow me to give my perspective as one who is a ministering in word and music since 1978. Without any disrespect intended, the article is a straw-man that misses the true issue that should be our concern. It focuses on music and singing when the real issue is OBEDIENCE! The biblical purpose for us to gathering together is NOT to hear a sermon or study the bible or to make everyone feel good. While these things may be not bad things they are not the biblical purpose that we gather together. We gather together in community to worship GOD!
Worship is not a suggestion. Father GOD commands us to worship HIM and sets the parameters on what are the acceptable ways to worship HIM. These parameters are NOT negotiable or contingent on how they make “YOU” feel!
The true message of the gospel is that we must love GOD above all else, we must accept Jesus as the only way to know GOD. And that knowing Jesus requires that we must die to our self.
Sadly, too many churches in the 20th century made a paradigm shift and chose to focus on increasing their numbers and building a large influential organization rather than to the biblical command to make disciples.
To achieve their goals to appeal to the masses required them to pervert the message of the Gospel to a more palatable message than one “dying to ones self”. They shifted the focus from “Obedience to GOD” to a more socially acceptable message of “See what GOD can do for you”.
The proof of this paradigm shift is seen in how the service is structured. Our services are designed to cater to our modern lifestyles and our short attention span. Churches condensed the time of their services so as not to alienate people from attending. Preaching became the main focus and the time for worship reduced. (Remember that priorities are communicated by the amount of time given to an activity)
Our “user friendly service” opens with 20 minutes of song and/or entertainment to “warm up the congregation” for the preacher’s message, next we give 10 minutes for greetings and advertisements leaving 45 minutes for the grand finale… preaching, teaching and making everyone feel good.
It’s no wonder that a lot of people choose to show up 10 or 15 minutes late!!!
The issue is not hymns vs music styles, melody vs harmony, written music vs overhead lyrics or the volume of the music… The issue is why do we allow our leaders to ignore GOD’s direction and priority. That HIS people must worship HIM!
People will begin to sing, shout, lift their hands and dance when our leaders demonstrate it and when they begin to communicate that worship is not an option… Worship is a way of life and yes… it is a command!
1Sa_15:22 And Samuel said, “Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams.
This article is true. Sadly, church wasn’t centered on the Gospel of Jesus Christ any more. Hymnals were thrown away, and the congregation had no right to object. Pastors and their deacons and staff were totally in charge. The congregation was supposed to come every time the church had an event and people were scolded for not giving more & more money to buy more & more land and hire more & more staff. All of these big changes took place in the nineties. I have seen church leaders change from humble servants to arrogant dictators. Churches who don’t offer the bells and whistles are looked down on. What a shame that the spotlight is not on Jesus anymore.
WHAT IS WORSHIP?
HOW DO WE WORSHIP GOD BIBLICALLY?
I am going to share scriptures from KJV Bible and also use the Strong’s Concordance to explain WORSHIP.
HEBREW
Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt WORSHIP H7812 no other H312 god: H410 for the LORD, H3068 whose name H8034 is Jealous, H7067 is a jealous H7067 God: H410
Strong’s H7812 – shachah
שָׁחָה
Transliteration
shachah
Pronunciation
shä·khä’ (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
A primitive root
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 2360
KJV Translation Count — Total: 172x
The KJV translates Strongs H7812 in the following manner: worship (99x), bow (31x), bow down (18x), obeisance (9x), reverence (5x), fall down (3x), themselves (2x), stoop (1x), crouch (1x), misc (3x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
to bow down
(Qal) to bow down
(Hiphil) to depress (fig)
(Hithpael)
to bow down, prostrate oneself
before superior in homage
before God in worship
before false gods
before angel
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
שָׁחָה shâchâh, shaw-khaw’; a primitive root; to depress, i.e. prostrate (especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God):—bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.
Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
H7812
GREEK
John 4:24
God G2316 is a Spirit: G4151 and G2532 they that worship G4352 him G846 must G1163 worship G4352 him in G1722 spirit G4151 and G2532 in truth. G225
Strong’s G4352 – proskyneō
προσκυνέω
Transliteration
proskyneō
Pronunciation
pros-kü-ne’-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From πρός (G4314) and a probable derivative of κύων (G2965) (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand)
Dictionary Aids
Vine’s Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 6:758,948
KJV Translation Count — Total: 60x
The KJV translates Strongs G4352 in the following manner: worship (60x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
to the Jewish high priests
to God
to Christ
to heavenly beings
to demons
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
προσκυνέω proskynéō, pros-koo-neh’-o; from G4314 and a probable derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship.
Thayer’s Greek Lexicon
G4352
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THE SAINTS OF GOD TRULY WORSHIPPED ACCORDING TO BIBLICAL STANDARDS?
Excellent question. I personally attend worship where the Scriptures are used as the authority for what is or is not permitted in worship. We do not go back to the Old Covenant to pick and choose from them what we wish to incorporate into the New Covenant. Our Lord Jesus the Christ has informed us “That all authority has been given to” Him “in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18).
There is a pattern for worship in the ekklesia of Christ. We as Christians are instructed to sing (Eph 5:19; Col 3:16-17), but the use of instruments in worship cannot be found in the New Testament. In fact there were no instruments used in worship until the Pope added an organ in the 7th Century A.D.
Most people of the major denominations (Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, and Methodists) do not even know there own histories. John Spencers Curwen, member of the Royal Academy of Music and in 1880, President of a college in London made this statement: “Men still living can remember the time when organs were very seldom found out of the church of England. The Methodists, Independents, and Baptists rarely had them, and by the Presbyterians they were stoutly opposed.”
In the 21st century few oppose the instrument in worship, but there are those that remain true to what God desires and not what man desires (or will have the biggest draw). Jesus said that God desires those who will worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:24) and in the Lord”s prayer He said, “Set them apart by Your truth. Your word is truth” (John 17:17).
“no instruments used in worship until the Pop in 7th Century A.D?? Can you explain all the references to stringed instruments and percussion instruments in the old testament? Can you share the scripture that negates that from the new testament? If I understand your passive agressive argument correctly you are saying that anyone that worships with instruments is not worshiping “in spirit and in truth”??? I really hope that’s not your intention. here…….
Actually, to worship in truth is to worship according to the Scriptures. I do not deny that the worship of the temple involved instruments but Christians do not worship under Mosaic law. The same Scripture that “negates” the instruments of the Old Testament being used in NT worship is the same Scripture that stopped (or negated) animal sacrifice, the Levitical priesthood, etc. One cannot pick and choose what they wish to follow from the Old Covenant under the new. Either the Old Covenant was completely replaced by the New Covenant or it was not.
The only instruction we have in the New Testament regarding music in worship is the command to sing. No where does any New Testament writer instruct anyone to play an instrument.
The Book of Psalms, was not part of the Law. It was the songbook of Israelites. Yes you say, not to pick and choose what you want of the Old covenant.
Do you read the 23rd Psalm for inspiration? If you do why do you refuse Psalms 150?
Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Psalm 77:12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.”
Do you believe this scripture? What are the works of God.?
Here is the fact God made music and gave men talent to make musical instruments. Lucifer is the one that makes some type of music unacceptable. No where in the New Testament does it say that music is a work of the flesh.
I’m sorry, saddened and heartbroken when i hear things like this. Any connection between Old Testament law, and worship diring Old Testament times is completely manufacturer. Or I can ask, share with me definitive scripture that equates the law of the Old Testament which Christ fulfilled with worship that was done during the Old Testament era. Not opinion, CLEAR scriptural connection.
The suggestion is that the New Testament has become a new book of rules and laws supplanting the Old Testament era of rules and laws.
This is quite a distorted view in relation to the New Covenant and sounds like quite a skewed
system of theology.
Remember that our Lord Jesus fulfilled all that was required by the law simply because we could not. St. Paul demonstrates continually that the law did not set men free at all.
This all smacks a bit on the side of “Replacement Theology”.
Christ set men free to live in freedom and worship in spirit and in truth. He did not write a new restrictive Law book to replace the Old one.
Because the 1st century writers did not specifically mention musical instruments does not in any way mean that God forbade them.
The 1st century writers were living in occupied times and the issues surrounding them were far more intense and life threatening. Issues of true doctrine were still being worked out over the next 150 years, well after the Temple destruction in A.D. 70.
In fact it could be said that the “History of the NT Church” is still being written today; it certainly did not finish with the book of Acts.
Issues like the Trinity were still being hammered out 150 years after the initial stories in Acts; the consolidation of the Holy Spirit as entity in the Trinity comes even many years later.
This sort of thinking shows and incredible lack of knowledge concerning the development of the church and the development of its doctrines and doctrinal positions which really took centuries to nut out.
Be free in Christ, play your guitar or piano, fiddle, bouzouki or whatever for joy and praise God in the way you find brings you peace and closeness to Christ.
Well Stated Kev.
You are reading something into scripture that is not there. Show me one verse, just one, that PROHIBITS musical instruments in worship in the NT. The OT worship is but a shadow of how heaven will be. Using your reasoning, then we shouldn’t even sing aloud because God’s Word says to “make melody in your heart” , Ephesians 5:19–Speaking to YOURSELVES in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.
Praises to God seeking in the spirit, but notwithstanding many work felt on the mankind’s events. Like concert to pleased the spectator.
I don’t think this article is very fair at all. To try and put it down to just one thing is minimalistic and I think, dishonest
Reading through the comments alone show the diverse difficulties people have with coming to worship/singing.
To say that singing hymns is going to fix it is actually offensive.
I love hymns. I didn’t grow up singing them as a staple in church, but with family. I can read music. And I am involved in “contemporary” charismatic worship styles.
Reading music – people from 40years old and down were not taught to read music as part of education. So having the music notes isn’t going to help.
Music style – if we don’t understand by now that people have different preferences, different ways to express their worship etc, then we haven’t been paying attention.
Hymns -some hymns are eternally inspirational, wonder filled and connect you straight to God. Others have words that are insipid. Some have beautiful melodies, some are awful and difficult to sing. Just as with the songs of today.
The words of songs that are being produced right now, largely reflect what God is doing right now. Singing hymns has the stigma of being about “then” not “now”. With some current music leaders forgetting that there is nothing new under the sun. Yes, there are current understanding and interpretations of how that works, and they should be expressed, just as adding how previous generations expressed the same thing is helpful.
People used to sing in church because it was part of what you did, a box you ticked. It was also a way to express genuine worship. It was intentional. It was a part of the ritual. Just like today
Entertainment value – I do not doubt that there are some churches that have music teams that focus on professionalism rather than excellence. Of every denomination and worship expression and attendance number.
But contemporary does not equal performance. Yes there is a band rather than just as organ – so what?
Harmonies – the instruments play the harmonies. And a lot of people can just figure it out as they go. Not everyone can, and for those chorally trained, I can see how that may be frustrating.
Musicians – churches use the resources they have. If the musicians are a band, or an accordion player or organist etc, that will reflect the music chosen etc. it doesn’t make it better than anything else, just making the most of what is on hand
We should be able to worship regardless of music. It is about God, and how He is worthy of praise. If we are so focused on our needs not being met, we can not then complain about it from a high horse with a “I could worship/sing better if YOU provide me with X”. Appalling. It isn’t just about the ‘entertainment factor’ it about everything.
I have music preferences, but have learnt to be able to connect with God in all of the musical situations I find myself in.
I am tired of the us v them attitude in churches. We need to take responsibility for our own worship. It is giving it individually to God in a collective setting.
Words – ecologically, financially etc having papers printed out each week is so very draining. Having words on a wall is convenient and saves money. The pages don’t get screwed up and left behind for someone else to clean up. They can be reused over and over again.
It is convenience and the fact that we live in a technological world.
Worship leader – as a worship or music minister, it is my responsibility to help lead people into the presence of God. Hearing people in the congregation who have trouble, and try and find ways to help people enter, not hinder them. It is my responsibility to hear what God is doing, what God has done and where God wants us to go. It is my responsibility to go beyond my own preferences and be open to hearing. I need to think about things like the complexity of melody and length of song and who are in the congregation (demographics etc) and I need to hear God
Grace. In every aspect. In every way. To each other.
This ridiculous pettiness about whose way is better is unnecessary conflict.
We should be able to worship if technology fails, if the sound system drops out or the words are unavailable, if our voices clash. It isn’t our preference, but it shouldn’t hinder us. If it hinders us, it’s not on anyone but us.
This is a hard topic that reeks of judgment! Should we judge people and say they are not worshiping if they are not singing along?
Like tomorrow at the 9:30 service at GSLC when we are invited to sing ‘This Little Light of Mine’, should we count the number of people that don’t sing as ‘lacking’ in their worship?
How about when the Choir sings ‘Jesus Calls Us’ and nobody in the congregation sings along for ‘a lack of words’ or ‘not knowing the song’? Does that make it just a ‘performance’? Is God’s Spirit not moving in the congregation?
Should everybody be required to sing ‘Lamb of God’ before Communion?
I think not. Why don’t we just worship how we feel comfortable? Let’s not be judgmental or nitpicky. Why don’t we work out or own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12) and just be grateful we can worship freely in any way we choose. Besides, worship is lifestyle, not just what we do on Sunday in the service we attend.
P.S. The worship leaders are easily judged weekly, whether it be ‘wrong’ or ‘unfamiliar’ song, too ‘professional’ and ‘not participatory’, or ‘you guys were great today’ (that’s judgment too…), the sound was ‘too loud’, the words weren’t right on the screen, etc. It’s easy to find things wrong and judge but much better to give grace… Let’s just worship our gracious and loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength and again, be thankful we are free in this nation to worship freely…
Ken you give some thoughtful insights. I do agree on some of them.
First thing, for the most part the church is wrong in what they call worship.
Singing for the most part is not worship.
You may say I am splitting hairs, but I CHALLENGE you to study WORSHIP in the KJV and use the Strong’s Concordance. See if the church is truly worshipping?
Music has always, even in the secular world been a way for people to express themselves.
There are different genres of music. We all have our preferences. Does that make it wrong because someone’s preference is different than ours? No, not necessarily.
Over the last few years there has a SEEKER-FRIENDLY doctrine filtrated the church. There has been less focus on sound doctrine because of this. They want to get the people into the church and make them not feel uncomfortable while attending church. So this has brought about the way the gospel is being presented in song and sermons.
What is the church for?
The church is for believers. We are to be taught sound doctrine. If we have trouble with issues in our lives, we are to be taught the Biblical (doctrine) way. There is suppose to be only one doctrine. Not multiple doctrines.
The unbeliever should not be able to feel comfortable in our churches, if the Saints (Christians) are living the lives they should live. If we are born again and have the Holy Ghost living in us, we should be the one that is Comfortable.
John 16:7-11 King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 OF SIN’ BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED NOT ON ME:
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Every Saint of God responsibility is to go into the fields and harvest the fields. How do we do it? By living a Biblically sound doctrine by living and walking in the Spirit.
Well you may say: “You can be so heavenly minded, that you are no earthy good>” Is that scriptural? Is that sound doctrine?
You may ask? What Has this got to do with praise and worship?
If a church is trying to win the lost, by acting like the world and singing like the world to make the sinner feel comfortable, the church has lost it’s way and turned aside from sound doctrine.
.2 Timothy 4:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
The choir is supposed to be the people. The worship leaders are supposed to just be leading. The sound of the choir should be so that people can hear each other singing. The leaders are supposed to build up the music reportiore of the people not the choir. It should mimic heaven.
BOOM -the Catholic Christian church it unfamiliar hymns -did you ever notice during Christmas time when carols are added to the liturgy , amazing how many join in , start adding some of the old familiar with the new you would see a big difference!
Grew up singing in church choir and miss the traditional music from our hymnals instead of the choppy music of today. Disjointed
I’ve been saying this for a few years now , and we used to stay sitting during the performance. We no longer go to such a church
As a church musician and retreat song leader for 40 years (now age 76) I have witnessed this as well and everything you say is true.
Perhaps one other point is the portion of the congregation who were taught to be silent in church, to be respectful and be in silent worship and.prayer. It may take another generation to break out of the silent shell.
The beauty of the Catholic faith is that there is a venue for everyone.
My wife brings up another factor: some people are uncomfortable singing in general. With “church shopping” so prevalent she also suggests that many new people don’t feel part of the gathering yet.
What if none of those factors are a problem and the people STILL don’t sing? They seem to think they are attending a concert and they can just be a spectator, BUT, the requirements of attending mass are Active participation whether you sing well or not, whether you read music or not. It’s not about you and what you get from the mass, it’s about what you can offer the Lord in service and in participation.
I understand the tendency but even though I’m in my 70’s I choose to sing and worship my Lord regardless of the style and the words.its amazing when I have that attitude how God shows up as I choose to worship.
I agree with this observation. It is one way that a church can fail it’s people. The congregation can often times take on the personality of the pastor as well as the way that they are lead into the different formats of the church. I have observed this a few times when visiting a church. The music is spot on…rehearsed very well! The seats are full to the brim. The message was even solid…but there was a gap of passion between the seats and the stage. It was evident that something is missing.
I recently visited a rural Mennonite church and the pews were crowded with over 100 people, maybe 200. The song leader stayed seated in a pew just behind me. He just sang a little louder when starting each hymn. Immediately everyone joined in with rich 4 part harmony. There was no piano or instrument. I was able to sing my beloved alto and was in heaven. I am so thankful for that experience. Yes, we are acting like an audience at our home, non-Mennonite church. Yes, why are our voices not letting the rafters ring as in days of old? Isn’t God just as wonderful as back then?
Thom….He inhabits praise. It does not matter what others are doing….where you stand has absolutely bathing to do with your personal worship. Worship is a way of life…not just something you do on a Sunday. Ask Him to change your heart and let it begin again with you. Praising Him is what life is about.
Oh this explains a lot to me.
I understand what is being said in this article. I’ve been in church 40 years and have seen drastic changes. We need the anointing of God more than anything in our churches!
Our church just moved choir back up to choir loft. We used to be in front where we were closer to the people. I think people joined in more when we were up front. I noticed that folks liked the old hymns. My husband joined in on Amazing Grace orHow Great Thou Art. I am in the choir so I sing everything. When I am in the crowd and sing, people compliment me. They like someone singing near them so they can sing along with some support.
Worship is not about us, not about the music, not about the lyrics, BUT is absolutely about our Father in Heaven. Can we just get back to the very heart of worship and focus on the One who is so worthy of our praise?
By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13:35 (HCSB)
Do nothing out of rivalry or conceit, but in humility consider others as more important than yourselves. Philippians 2:3. (HCSB)
Seems to me we all need to work on living out these biblical principles. Those who love modern tunes should accommodate the (generally) “old guard” who love traditional hymns and praise songs, AND vice versa.
Too much navel gazing and turf war in the church today and not enough sincerely mutual respect and care, particularly of the cross-generational kind.
And there are those–like yours truly–who enjoy an eclectic mix including traditional hymns, adapted hymns, gospel, “traditional” and modern praise and worship. 🙂
Why do we have to repeat choruses over and over? I love to sing songs and hear songs that I love over and over…ON DIFFERENT DAYS, but there comes a time where most people say ENOUGH ALREADY. I know God understands what I am talking about because of Proverbs 19:13 says “A foolish child is a father’s ruin, and a quarrelsome wife is like the constant dripping of a leaky roof.” Constant dripping is annoying! I stand in church and I wonder what God thinks? Because if I was God and my people sang the Bible verse “better is one day in your house than thousands elsewhere” 10 times in a row, I would be like “hello people there are a few thousand more verses I wrote for you that we can sing about!!!” If a little insignificant human like me gets frustrated, what on earth is God thinking?? I can think of a thousand reasons to praise God in an hour service on Sunday morning…why can’t our worship leaders? Sometimes I look at them and they are just soaking in the moment as they sing the same line over and over as the instruments rock on and I just pray because if I don’t my frustration mounts and I wonder what on earth I am doing there.
The church service has turned into a stage production not a worshipful time to sing and praise the Lord. Songs that are consisting of lots of repetitious verses wear people down. Standing for three or more consecutive songs also loses many. There should be a song leader, not a polished band and swaying singers. The music has been updated to please and bring in the young. In the process much has been lost of meaningful songs of the past. Some of the “new” songs are very hard to follow from an overhead screen and no notes. New is not always better.
I have commented previously. I read in one of the previous comments from a daughter of a music director at a mega church. She said the reason we are having this discussion is that we want it our way..
One thing that has changed since 1950, is the lack of disciple. The baby boomers for the most part start wanting their way. They did not want to be discipline or if they went to church, discipled. A lot of things happened in our country, such as Television becoming more popular in our homes. That gave us a view of the outside world that we had only read about.
In the 50’s most ladies used very little makeup, because if they did they might be considered a harlot. Most ladies wore dresses that had sleeves and they were to the knee or lower Women’s hair was longer. Men had short hair. A lady would not be seen in public with shorts or pants. They wore dresses.. Though they were getting more things. But discipline was growing lax, People were turning away from spanking. They are just youngsters they will grow out of it. Let them sow some wild oats.
But then the 60’s came along and the British rock invasion. boys wanted long hair, girls wanted short skirts. They were rebelling not disciplining their lives. You had the civil rights movement and you had the protest on the college campuses. They began to smoke marijuana. They wanted free love. They were not being discipline or disciplining themselves.
Then the 70’s. came it became legal to kill people in the USA (Abortion). Then some of the young people accepted Jesus Christ as there Saviour. That was a good thing, But they didn’t want to sing them old hymns no more. We gotta have some new ones with a new beat that we enjoy in the world. We can’t lay our rock music down. They were not being discipled or disciplining themselves. I can have a little drink of alcohol or have a joint and I don’t have to give it up. But in the late 70’s something else happened, CHRISTIAN TELEVISION NETWORKS WERE LAUNCHED Christian TV started promoting people that had various lifestyles that were not Christian, but said they believed in Jesus and the Christians fells for it. No discipline again..
Then in 80’s the Prosperity doctrine began to take off and it has been going ever since, People began thinking if you do not have a nice house, drive a car less than 5 years old you are not being blessed. No disciplining, again.
Now the churches are mega churches the have stage performances at services times. “God is moving in our church” they will say “It is growing by leaps and bounds and the music and the Minister is so good.” But ask them what the preacher preached about, they can’t remember. Sill no discipline.
Where are the disciples in our churches?
WE ARE GETTING IT OUR WAY..
They obviously haven’t been to my church.
That’s not the case at my church. You can always hear the congregation singing. It’s the worship leaders job and calling to fully engage the congregation in the worship.
I am both a choir director and song-leader…in my view there are truly a number of reasons why some attendees do not sing (most in our church do sing), but I believe it is primarily a heart condition. Everyone has situations and circumstances in their life that may cause them to NOT want to sing on any given Sunday or mid-week service but when one is truly born-again, there is no reason not to sing! If you notice many of those that ARE singing are not singing with joyful exuberance. The Bible commands that whether we eat or drink or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God. Each should examine him/herself and check their fruits, their faith and their walk before God honestly if they are not singing or are not singing with the joy of the Lord. Jesus wants us to have life and to have it more abundantly. To not worship Him in spirit and in truth is in violation of a foundational doctrine of the Bible and may possibly be a symptom of a deeper issue. On a side note we use primarily a hymn book containing almost 900 hymns for our congregational singing. Our choir music is also rich in doctrine and is chosen to not remind one of the music of the world but rather to magnify the name of Christ. My observations are that both young and old sing the hymns and we have both young and old singing in choir, which tells me that we do not have to cater to the preferences of the times, but rather only to aim to magnify the Lord with the sole purpose of music being to worship Him and to prepare the hearts of the congregation for the preaching of the Word of God.
You say young and old sing the hymns. Thats awesome! The problem though is that in many churches we are catering to the younger crowd in order to be “relevant” . Somehow many churches have accepted an idea that in order to be relevant we have to be loud, modern, and chorus and technologically driven. Otherwise we may “lose ” people. Or we may not be relevant enough to attract new believers. But my concern is that in the midst of that mentality we could be losing the 50 -100 year olds that still love and see value in worshiping using the old hymns. It is a mistake of this generation to think we are doing it right when we dismiss the old hymns for the sake of “relevance” or when we think that people aren’t singing because of their heart. Its true, every heart condition is evident to Jesus in a congregation but no matter how far or close you are from Jesus, singing one line over and over gets boring and very irrelevant. When we sing hymns we learn truth. When we sing chorus’ we learn truth. But singing the same thing over and over no matter what style, can lose anyone no matter what their heart condition. Some of the most awesome bands of our time, Third Day, Newsboys, Casting Crowns, and many more have incorporated hymns into their music or just out right put them in their original forms (with some more modern instruments) into their albums. We as a church need to realize that we can be relevant and all inclusive just by simply creatively implementing all worship songs and styles in any service so that we can experience multigenerational fellowship. It is totally wrong to think only the young deserve a worship experience catered to them. People are falling through the generational cracks and its the churches fault for not noticing or not finding ways to bridge the gap through music. Its an easy fix. It’s pure selfishness to think we need all this stuff to reach people. We have become a generation that idolizes worship services. We ananlyze them, write books about them, and think WE can bring in the people. Well we can’t . That’s the Holy Spirits job. We should be sensitive to all generations as we seek to be “relevant”. Then pray and trust the Lord to bring them in.
Hello April. Thank you for replying… I should have been more clear when making my remarks that my observations have to do with my viewpoint from the perspective as it relates to our own congregation in the church where I worship. I mentioned the points related to the doctrinal richness of the music we sing as supporting evidence that (in my experience) folks that are right hearted will generally respond to music that is doctrinally rich and intended to prepare the hearts of the congregation for the preaching of the Word of God. I do however agree with the main premise of what you stated in your reply.
I hear so many people saying they miss the old hymns, I do too!. It makes me sad because they are so full of meaning and scripture and some churches have just discarded them completely. Like an old antique maybe one day people will see their true value and seek after them again. Maybe one day when that happens, mainstream churches will start to implement them more again. I hope older people like me get to see that day.
Please, pray and ask the Lord to lead you to the Body of Christ where worship and singing is accomplished by the crowd.
Then, start following the Spirit of God where He leads you to go.
AMEN….AMEN….,AMEN.
I have to wonder how volume affects those performing music. I’ve sung in several choirs–generally singing the tenor part, which can be difficult to find. Finding a part often requires hearing one’s own voice as well as the other parts. There’s a certain quality of sound that resonates when everyone hits a harmony.
At times, the tenor section can be pretty thin, so there isn’t always a strong tenor to follow. Or, there is, but that poor fellow is also struggling to find the part while learning the music. Sometimes the way I would find the tenor part was to listen to the other parts and sing the one that was missing. Certainly, I would look at the music and have a general idea of where the part was headed, but for music to sound right singers need to be right on. If someone is a little off things can sound quite wonky.
I found when volume levels were too high–particularly with the background tracks and/or instruments, I had a hard time finding my part. The ear is a huge part of the equation for singing properly, and too much volume takes the ear out of the equation.
Wow. I have been saying this for years. I especially agree on music choice. Some songs are just not meant for congregational singing. When a praise song chorus gets repeated over and over, I just want it to stop.
In the last, well, almost a year, now, I have attended many smaller churches in search of one that I can call home. Most of these are without the big stage, big flat screen and fully outfitted “band” with every expensive musical device available, and what I have found is this:, when parishioners in the pews know that the volume needs to come from them, they will sing and at some point, really start to enloy themselves. It is when the service becomes a concert/show, (which I am tired of by the way), where the people on stage become more interested in showing their talents instead of worshipping, thus jumping around, dressing down, and cranking it up, which, by the way is why I stopped singing. The human voice is Gods instrument, for our ears and his too. A real leader will encourage the pews to sing and worship, not drown them out with amplifiers and drums.
I am blessed in singing to my Lord the old hymns. The ones you know the words to and that come to mind when you least expect it, or when you need to reconnect to the presence of the Lord. I have a real hard time with songs that have word on a screen.
I believe that the Lord does not want praise that is inaunthentic to how you presently feel. In other words, while it important to worship God even in times of hardship or grief, I believe that He is God enough to accept that you are angry or sad, and wouldn’t want praise to be forced from you. By the same token, praise isn’t identified by how much shouting or singing is happening, but rather by the authenticity of the heart.
Truly, this has happened in many churches. There are no song books in the pews anymore. Noone call’s for a congregational hymn nor ask does anyone have a selection.
I agree, the music is to loud. It appears that each musician is trying to out do the other and they get louder and louder. A lot of times the music is so loud, you can’t hear the singing. It appears that the church is in competition to see who has the best musicians.
You cannot worship in these churches because you can’t hear yourself. If you can’t hear yourself it feels as if God can’t hear you either?
The songs most churches use are not really worshop songs because the lyrics has nothing about God. Its all about feeling good and nothing else. God has been completely left out of the songs. Yes, sometimes, we beat the old hymns to death yet they are the best.
A church is not to entertain people, but to worship God in spirit. How do you get young people interested in church? First of all, get God back in your lives and back in the church. When this happens, people will see something going on and then they will start coming.
I am going to have to disagree, as I lead on Sundays, I am welcomed with a sea of voices. It’s in our church’s DNA, we’ve seen too many great things that God has done to not sing his praise! Marriages restored, atheists brought to faith. You’re issues aren’t biblical as much as they are critical of semantics. When people don’t sing it’s a question of heart, even if the lyrics are unfamiliar they are usually on a giant screen, and even if you’ve never heard the song you must still rejoice in what God has done for you.
And if “leading” on Sundays, in place of God’s commanded Holy Sabbath, the 7th day, the 4th Commandment, that issue is not biblical either. No wonder “churches” are in such disarray…we have not been worshiping on the correct, weekly “appointed time”. We have been one day off… probably from the first century…much to Satan’s enjoyment. Do a study on it! Constantine made the decree around 312 AD, and the Roman Catholic Church takes credit for it…and seems proud of it. The seventh day Sabbath is not an Old Testament thing, Jewish thing, or Seventh Day Adventist thing. It is a Commandment of Almighty God to ALL His people…from creation. No place in Scripture, not even Paul’s words, tells us to forsake the 7th day Sabbath for the 1st day of the week, commonly called Lord’s Day. Serious topic for serious times about to begin for “The Church” with traditions of men.
Does anyone know that Saturday is the real Sabbath?
The Romans made the calendar and gave the days there names.
Sabbath was created for man to rest.
It means take out one day of seven to rest.
We are supposed to keep everyday holy.
You that are hung up on working on the Sabbath should not be enjoying the benefits of those who have to work on Saturday, such as Electricity or going to a restaurant to eat on Saturday..
Does that sound ridiculous? It does.
Oh other thing. Could you be committing a sin on instructions given to the Gentiles by Paul?
Colossians 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Can be a problem. Some of the best singing services have been when we opened the hymnal and sang older hymns of faith. With that said. I love new and old songs but only if we are all singing together.
Sounds like you’re getting old, Thom. Sorry, but me too.
Millennials are still singing and loving the “blaring.” In fact, I never sing unless the volume is loud enough to cover my noise. I’ve been in civic centers with 8,000 going to town and lifting the rafters.
Our little church sings loud with drums, guitars and all those noise makers. But, then again, we sing loud when our music minister moves to the organ and we all “raise our ebenezers.” Sure, most of us think it’s a song about making a toast of some sort but we sing loud.
But yeah, we sing songs we clearly understand and we repeat the choruses a lot, just like the contemporary music we listen to and like. And, we really do prefer them.
I agree, churches are performance based. In my 53 years I’ve attended thousands of services, sat in front-facing rows, listened to one man speak and applauded choirs, special music and bands. A singing generation that sang whether it was marching to war or working on farms or sitting on front porches sang as part of its culture when I was young. We sang our school songs, sang on bus trips and sang in the family car.
The culture has changed. We can certainly be sad about that but blaming a perceived lack of singing on a style of music or format is not helpful and only creates tension.
I don’t think the issue is as much stylistic as it is systemic and cultural. In places where people understand worship I suspect people sing regardless of the music.
We now have some research data on the effect of sound levels on a congregation’s tendency to sing–or not. https://holysoup.com/2016/05/25/the-sound-that-kills-worship/
Well said! And may I add…. the church would save $$ by no longer needing the ear plug dispensers. (Yes! Ear plug dispensers were at a church in Oahu, HI, that I attended! And yes, the congregation were responding just as you wrote! Thank you for writing & posting about this very important matter.
Wow. This is so sad. I have not experienced this in churches in my area.
Well…another opinion…….how am I supposed to SING when all there is on the screen are words? If you don’t already know the song– that is the TUNE, you CANNOT sing..so the ‘worship songs’ become just another solo by the worship leader.
Come to our church community worship center.we raise our hands and even 💃. voices Lifted high in love and worship of our Savior King. Jesus.
Put the Hymn Books back and sing anointed songs and stop bringing foolishness into the house of God
Amen, Mark Dunn.
Yes Lord…you are telling the truth…
I do my best…to sing….
I just wait for the preaching
Kind Regards,
Semi retired Minister of Music
we cannot be legalistic in worshipping God. I guess you are wrong. what is the difference between not singing and singing hymns but doesn’t actually understand the words because of reading the confusing notes?. people don’t sing because they can’t understand and people sing but they do not understand. whatever we do, it’ll all fall on the same ground and that ground is our PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God. we cannot find real worship without giving God importance in our lives.. fix your eyes upon Jesus and you will find His sanctuary.
Go to a smaller gathering in a smaller building with no modern electric amplified bands, and you’ll hear some heart worming worship.
Yup !
You have hit the nail on the head. Worship has become a spectator event. In an attempt to be relavent the churches focus on professionalism instead of spirit inspired worship of God. Many of the so-called worship songs were written for solo artists or pro singing groups. Some don’t translate well to congregational singing. Another problem is that there is a tendency to introduce the latest songs as soon as they are released…whether they are singable or not.
Worship is supposed to focus on glorifying God and edifying believers, not glorify the theatrical style performance of the “worship team.” We need to get back to worship that allows everyone to “make a joyful noise” as they recognize God’s mercy and grace in their own lives and learn more about His nature and His plan for their lives through the preaching of His Holy Word.
While I can see this happening in some churches, it doesn’t present a problem at our church. I suppose we are truly blessed in that aspect. We are a small church (100-120 on a good Sunday) with a huge amount of musical talent. While our praise band, (which is comprised of exceptionally talented musicians and many others who can sit in when the regulars are absent) does a lot of the new contemporary Christian music, we always sing some of our traditional hymnal songs also. There is music to please everyone, the young and the old. It gives everyone a chance to sing and praise the Lord and that’s the main reason we are there. I love it all, the old and the new and so does the majority of our congregation.
“Make a joyful noise unto the Lord.”
Which songs has the most congregational participation?
I was watching a church service tonight on the internet. When the praise band started the services about half of the congregation was participating.
But when the pastor began to sing the old hymns all the congregation got on there feet and began to participate. You could definitely feel a different feeling in the service when the pastor was singing the old songs..
The pastor was working things up. He just sing.
That was one of my observations back when I was going to church. We have a good 100-120 people on Sunday morning and we would sing a mix of old and contemporary. When a good old hymn was sung, you could definitely hear the higher volume of voices with the hymns compared to the newer contemporary music. Music was a touchy point and thorn at that church. If there was one too many contemporary songs, the pastor heard about it. Poor guy.
I respectfully disagree with this over generalization. The most recent contemporary churches in which we have visited in the last few years are just the opposite. The believers in the “pews” (actually, most use chairs nowadays) are passionately involved in personal worship along with those leading.
I do realize there are certainly variations in congregational worship styles and participation. My observation is that is much more the case when a traditional church is introduced to contemporary music and a new style. They are led or pushed into something unfamiliar and uncomfortable.
I will be 70 years old this fall. I am a product of the traditional church in the old south and have deep appreciation for those roots which were part of introducing me to Christ as a 7 year old boy and discipling me. I grew up with our classic hymns and benefited from scripture and theology within their lyrics.
Though musically ungifted, for a few years I actually was a traditional music leader who attempted to lead from up front with my right hand and harm. God blessed that congregation by moving me to an area of ministry better suited to my gifts and His plan for me.
My personal worship, both in private and public, has developed greatly since becoming a part of the church in which we are now a part. It is contemporary and young. The worship team leads enthusiastically and fervently. Though amplified, they are often muted by the audience responding with our own deep ferver. I have learned to worship as a budding “geezer” in a young church and “feel” the Presence of God’s Spirit as never before.
Sorry for the word count. I know my own experience and that it is not all that exceptional today. God still works in traditional churches because He is still there. He is also moving mightily in newer style churches. Thanks for “listening”.
My singing stinks. Yet I sing…however badly…not for the congregation but to God.
I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!! Heck, the church my wife drags me to doesn’t really have worship service, it’s just a rock concert w a 15-minute sermon somewhere in the middle. The masses of young people that mostly populate these types of churches, including ours, merely “simulate” singing/worship by occasionally moving their lips, but most simply stare at people on a stage doing it for them. OK, to be fair, many of the teenage girls at our church jump up and down while rocking out with their hands in the air (then again, perhaps they’re still tripping from the ecstasy they dropped at a dance club the night before.)
Even if you do attempt to sing along w the band at these types of churches, you won’t know if your vocal cords are actually accomplishing the task because the music is so loud your ears couldn’t possibly hear it to know for sure. So you might be worshiping, you might not be, but hey at least the cool concert is free and even comes w crackers and a shot of grape juice.
I’d bet if you dragged most young people that grew up in such churches, to a church that sings a-cappella such as Prestoncrest Church of Christ in Dallas Texas, or Crestview Church of Christ in Waco, TX, they would be absolutely flabbergasted when they realized that, A), almost everyone in attendance actually sings/worships, and B), how beautiful the singing is due to this strange phenomenon that can be heard called…HARMONY! Yup, bet they’ve never read hymnal music or sang without loud music, and thus never knew one could sing alto, or tenor, or soprano, or bass, and how awesome it sounds when an entire auditorium full of people participate in a mix of their use. I bet they would also be amazed at how much more involved they feel when they personally participate in worshiping God rather than just being entertained by others doing it for them.
Yes, I realize that as a crotchety old Church of Christ-er, I’m biased. I grew up hearing beautiful singing whilst personally participating in worship. And yes, I also understand that people like my beautiful, young and brilliant wife, who grew up Baptist, say they feel much more connected during worship that involves a great band; I personally just don’t get it. I mean I like a great band too, just never considered listening to one, worship.
But hey, we’re all on the same team and have lots of choices when it comes to choosing a church and weather we prefer to worship ourselves… or merely sway with our eyes closed while we watch people on a stage do it for us. Perhaps future churches will take it even further, and we can all just worship from home by occasionally re-Tweeting something about a cool spiritual song someone once actually sang.
God is our great God who rules us with grace, love, mercy and everything. He is our personal God, our father who loves us unconditionally. He is good beyond measure, He gives everything we need in life, when we are discourage, he encourages us, when we are weak, He is strong, when we are lonely, He comforts us, when we are persecuted, He is our shield. He is everything to us so we can sing for Him because He is who he is in His word. He is faithful, he gives wisdom to those who ask him without finding fault. Worship is all about God, his goodness and love we can’t fathom that’s why we can sing in his presence for Him. To our Savior, Jesus Christ, be all the glory!
This is why we left our former church. That was Entertainment for observers. They might be offended I used the word “Entertainment”, but I call it as I see it. Why go to church and listen to Christian pop muzak and listen to Mr. Rogers give a talk while sitting on a stool? We now worship in a church that uses hymn books and still sing the classic, ancient, hymns of the church. We sing when we worship. Our pastor preaches expositionally from the whole counsel of (just finished Ecclesiastes) – we go home with satisfied souls. We’ll never go back to anything less.
Singing in church is about Worship. If you cannot worship in a church then you have to move to another one or risk drying up spiritually.
I like to to remind my worship team “We’re asking the congregation to sing with us not listen to us sing”
If they’re not with us by the second time through the chorus the song gets deleted from future sets or repurposed as “special” music.
If the worship band is actually leading the congregation, then they should be able to hear the congregation, right? How can you lead if you cannot hear what the congregation is doing?
An idea for worship leaders, bands and sound techs: lower the volume, so you can hear the congregation. Don’t worry if it sounds “empty” (maybe that’s how the congregation is feeling.) Try to discern where the congregation is at. Have some empathy. You might learn a lot about what the congregation can and cannot sing; you might learn what they actually respond to, what moves them.
Have a bunch of songs ready, and be prepared to NOT do all of them. Maybe you’ll only sing the quiet tunes; maybe only the loud ones. It all depends on how the church is doing that particular day. Don’t worry about “the list of songs we’ve prepared, and we’re doing them in this order.”
Also, not all declarations of love and honor and respect are made at high volume. Do you bellow at your earthly father each and every time you tell him “thanks”? No. sometimes it’s just a whisper.
Listen to the congregation. In order to lead, you must know where they are and what they are doing.
Oh, how we proudly tell on ourselves! I’m so glad that all who agree with this article weren’t around when the great old hymns were first introduced in a worship service. Some Spirit-filled worship leader desiring to lead his congregation to worship the Lord, bravely introduces a new song at his church titled, “Amazing Grace” or “Blessed Assurance” or “How Great Thou Art” and I can hear it now. All you people that hate the new stuff murmur and complain all the way home after church about this new music that nobody knows. It’s like the worship leader is singing solos every week. Every old hymn was new at one time! Since the beginning of time each generation has been inspired to write new songs about our awesome God. After all, it says in God’s Word in Psalm 96, 98, 144, 149, and Isaiah 42 to sing a new song unto the Lord. And, Psalm 33:3 debunks most of this article: “Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.” KJV This article was published by “Holy Soup” that claims to “offer innovative approaches to ministry, and challenges the status quo of today’s church.” Innovative means to introduce new ideas or methods, not old ones. I’ve grown up in the church my whole life and yes Holy Soup is definitely challenging the status quo of the church by encouraging congregants to continue to complain and make worship all about me and my preferences. This version of Holy Soup is Wholly Crap! And one more thing, all you people who commented about new worship music repeating words over and over is a total joke. Instead of singing songs with lines that repeat themselves, you just want to repeat the same old songs over and over and over. Now, tell me, what is the difference?
I can tell you the difference. The words and their meaning. Whether old hymns or new choruses, repetition helps us learn the song. However, repeating the same LINE over and over and over is distracting and annoying to me because there are so many other things to sing. Say it once I might have got it. Say it twice , I got it forsure , say it three times and perhaps its reinforced. But I have gotten to the point where we are on the 10th time, and I am bored and annoyed. MOVE ALONG PEOPLE.
And I am all for making a joyful noise, but I am also all for quietness and meditation, in fact I rarely hear God speak when my ears are ringing. Does God speak to you in the louder times or in the quietness? Why can’t we make room for both?
April, I’ve got bad news for you about Heaven. In Revelation 4, the Throne in Heaven is described as having creatures declaring praise to the Lord Almighty and they are saying the same line over and over forever and ever. But maybe they’ll stop if you tell them they’re being annoying.
“And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” Revelation 4:8 KJV
And Greg, a beast with 6 wings that is full of eyes and does not rest day or night is not standing in a building looking at a stage. He is travelling and announcing and seeing all the Glorious reasons to say Holy Holy Holy over and over again through the Heavens…..Quite a bit of a different scenario, compared to our little worship service gatherings.
This is such an unholy attitude.
This is showing no signs of agreement.
This is the attitude of the worship leaders that are driving people away.
Greg, there is no bad news about Heaven. When I am there I will be constantly praising Jesus as well. Thats when I will see him face to face in all his Glory. In that time, where there will be no measure of time, I will not be annoyed about anything. Heaven will be perfect in every way. Worship will be perfect. I look forward to that day.
Exactly! No signs of agreement when worship has anything to do with my preference or performance. There is not one song that unifies The Church; there is not one music style; there is not one volume level; there is not one level of ability; there is not one planned service structure. The ONLY thing that unifies The Church is the blood of Christ Jesus. If that alone can’t unify us, then nothing will and there’ll never be anything about a worship service that does anything right or good and there’ll always be discord, dissonance, and a dimenuendo in the heart of worship toward the Father.
Yes the blood of Jesus Christ does unify us as Christians.
But it goes past the blood. The Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit is the part of the Godhead that is in charge among us who are Saints (Christians). Without the annointing of the Holy Spirit we are relying on man’s wisdom, which does not mix with God’s wisdom..
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Man seeks to fit God in with the styles and fashions of this world’s wisdom, But the Holy Spirit will go most of the time against man’s wisdom.
Listen to this verse.
1 Corinthians 14:32-33 King James Version (KJV)
32 And the spirits of the prophets (ministers, singers, etc) are subject to the prophets(ministers, singers, etc).
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
These people are ministering to the Saints by the Holy Spirit. It says here the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, but of peace.
The new style of ministry (music) has caused confusion.
Most churches are social clubs, entertainment venues and etc. instead of Holy Spirit ministering venues. There is no annointing. Where there was an annointing it has left. Why?
There was no confusion in the churches perse, till Satan deceived some to bring a new music into the churches..
You may have mega churches that appear to have the annointing of the Holy Spirit, but you can’t tell anything different about them than the secular crowd.
You cannot tell a lot of them from there form of entertainment, than secular entertainment.
They dress, act and perform like secular music.
This is the confusion.
Most will close their ears and refuse to listen, because most people do not want to be told anything that makes them uncomfortable. That is the way our people have been raised over the last 30 years and they are running our churches.
Y’all don’t mind Scotty. He’s Pentecostal. He always quotes Xorinthians because they think what Paul said one new church in Corinth supercedes everything else in the bible… It’s also debatable what Paul actually meant by some of his writings there and one or a few verses out of context do not a bible make.
I will say I am glad that I am Pentecostal, and a lot of Pentecostal this would have applied to in what I wrote.
Most Pentecostal churches no longer have the annointing?
I love it when someone just proves my point.
Check your spelling before posting.
I agree with Scotty Serean, Very well said and Absolutely True – the children of the Flesh are running His churches worldwide and we can’t do much to change That because they are (founders or top leaders) in control
False Christians pastors and leaders in the Church bringing new (music and songs with hidden agenda) worship service in disguise. Check out what Satan is doing in Hillsongs concert at youtube,.screen showing Signs of the piramid (All seeing Eye) – Illuminati
Why are you being so defensive and hostile? Is it personal for you?
As to your question about how repeating songs is different than repeating a few lines multiple times: a song might have been repeated once a month (although I can’t remember any hymns that were except for the invitationals). This is quite different than repeating a line or a verse multiple times, then the next song repeats multiple times, and so on. The latter seems to be having a hypnotic effect.
“JD”, of course, exemplifies what has gone wrong. What a shame.
Worship comes from a heart of gratitude. The church had bought in the world to try to accommodate the people. People are looking for pure worship. Not entertainment.
Help us Lord! Bring us back to a heart of worship.❤
We set aside a time to worship. i.e. tell of the great Worth God is. To truly be worship then It’s about God. The style of songs, words chosen, new or old, should allow God’s People to lift Him up together. In light of it supposed to be all about God, how then should the “Worship” leader and praise team behave? doing things that draw attention to themselves is out of place in true worship. There is no problem doing “special numbers” where gifted musicians/vocalists use their God given talents to worship God in ministry to the larger group of God’s People. But there should be more time devoted to appropriately leading God’s People in participatory Singing. We don’t need hymnals but we do need the words on a screen and several Sundays to repeat the same music so that we can learn it. The music for group singing should also not be complicated, it’s all about leading and helping God’s People to worship God together in unity. There is a beautiful unity, bonding and encouragement for a group to sing together i praise and honor of God. This is the responsibility of the Worship leader to plan and deliver. The loss of corporate singing to God is a great loss. The outcome should be that God’s People, in the grind of life outside the church walls can hum or sing those same corporate songs at work, in their car, at home and with their children. What many (most?) churches are doing today is a huge loss for God’s People and I believe to God.
Very good article. Your point is very clear.
I went to a church Sunday. They had a projector, but they were running advertisement about what the church does and the services of the church while the band was leading the congregation in singing.
They had Church Hymnals in the pew. They sang a song from the Hymnal, but they performed it with each member singing a verse. They did not tell the congregation to turn in there hymnals to page so and so to allow the congregation participation.
They sang four songs, which three I knew, but one I did not know.
It is hard to sing when you don’t have the words on the wall or in a song book in front of you.
I agree, particularly with the volume of the music. The last church we attended, the pastor loved the music really loud, to the point where several members of the congregation waited outside the sanctuary until the worship/singing portion of the service was over before they would join the congregation. It was loud to me too, and I’m not generally a “complainer” about such stuff. Speaking with the pastor about it did not change the situation. Nor did talking to the sound people. They had been instructed to “crank it up.” It’s actually unhealthy to be exposed to an extremely noisy environment for lengths of time. We even had the decibel level measured, and it was too high. Sometimes God’s people just do not use common sense…”
My experience, too. Maybe someone, somewhere has turned down the volume upon request, but I don’t know of any. There’s something sick about Christian leadership not caring that they are CAUSING PAIN to members of the body.
Ti the pastors and music leader who will not listen. 1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.